Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9  All

Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards  (Read 77544 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #125 on: November 15, 2015, 10:35:37 am »
0

I think the engine components on Part 5 (other than Throne Room, which is pretty much fine where it is) should be higher. I like that Bishop, Monument and Caravan dropped, though.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #126 on: November 15, 2015, 10:59:07 am »
0

I'm not sure Marauder should be this much lower than Sea Hag, or that it should be lower than Sea Hag at all, but all in all I'm okay with these rankings.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #127 on: November 15, 2015, 11:05:11 am »
0

I'm not sure Marauder should be this much lower than Sea Hag, or that it should be lower than Sea Hag at all, but all in all I'm okay with these rankings.

Well, we should have seen Sea Hag already. I think Marauder's ranking is fine, I only had it slightly lower.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

funkdoc

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 472
  • Respect: +414
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #128 on: November 15, 2015, 11:27:11 am »
0

dangit sea hag not dropping as much as i thought

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #129 on: November 15, 2015, 11:32:01 am »
0

I'm also in the Marauder > Sea Hag camp.  Marauder > Militia, too, I think.

I'm most surprised that Bridge is in the top 11.  Certainly, it is one of the best cards on the board in some kingdoms (generally in the presence of King's Court or Royal Carriage), but those boards are pretty rare.  Usually, it's really hard to combine more than two Bridges together.  It's never a bad card, but on most boards it's merely good.

I'm also surprised that Bishop isn't in the top 10.  I can't even remember a board where Bishop wasn't a part of the optimal engine payload.  Plus, it's an ambiguously good Estate trasher (ambiguous because it helps your opponents trash, of course).
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #130 on: November 15, 2015, 11:52:01 am »
0

I'm most surprised that Bridge is in the top 11.  Certainly, it is one of the best cards on the board in some kingdoms (generally in the presence of King's Court or Royal Carriage), but those boards are pretty rare.  Usually, it's really hard to combine more than two Bridges together.  It's never a bad card, but on most boards it's merely good.

Bridge is incredibly powerful. Whenever it's in the kingdom, you want to go to almost any lengths to build the engine. Usually, it's somehow possible to make it work, and when it is, it's the best strategy on the board.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4340
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #131 on: November 15, 2015, 11:56:11 am »
0

I'm OK with Hag being in the top 10; it will take time for voters to see the light. I just hope it's not in the top 5 anymore.

For the record I personally think Hag is better than Marauder, if only slightly. Debilitating the next turn early is usually more relevant than Marauder's slow economy boost. The two are surely close, though, so I think it could go either way and the actual order does not matter much. I had Sea Hag at 13, YW at 14, and Marauder at 19, but my bias is likely showing.
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #132 on: November 15, 2015, 12:02:09 pm »
0

I'm OK with Hag being in the top 10; it will take time for voters to see the light. I just hope it's not in the top 5 anymore.

For the record I personally think Hag is better than Marauder, if only slightly. Debilitating the next turn early is usually more relevant than Marauder's slow economy boost. The two are surely close, though, so I think it could go either way and the actual order does not matter much. I had Sea Hag at 13, YW at 14, and Marauder at 19, but my bias is likely showing.

Young Witch is definitely better than Sea Hag.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

funkdoc

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 472
  • Respect: +414
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #133 on: November 15, 2015, 12:04:33 pm »
+1

bishop early is just too big of an opportunity cost given how much it helps your opponent.  i find that it's better to get it in the midgame where you can play it more often, use it on bigger targets (e.g. those early silvers you no longer need), and be less likely to help your opponent.

and there are lots of games that end too quickly for bishop to be a big factor.  any megaturn engine, a lot of other engines (either through explosiveness for provinces, or 3-pile endings with mirrors), governor games, plenty of butcher games, etc.

as for bridge, it's easier to string a bunch of those together than you think. hermit or native village alone usually makes the megaturn the way to go.  throne room and even procession make it workable with 3-4 bridges.  and even if you can't get a true megaturn, there are certainly a lot of engines that can play 3 or 4 of them...and that still counts for a lot in terms of 3-pile wins.  that isn't even mentioning that 1 or 2 bridges is still nice payload if that's all your engine can handle.

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1470
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #134 on: November 15, 2015, 12:40:29 pm »
+1

I think Militia is too high.

Also Sea Hag>>YW
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #135 on: November 15, 2015, 01:10:04 pm »
+4

So maybe I'm a bit out of the loop, but what's with the sudden hate on Sea Hag? It still cripples engines without strong trashing, is a cheap curser and even mucks up their next turn a little. I think it was still in my top 5, for sure.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1237
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1179
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2015, 01:40:02 pm »
0

Port is amazing! Two villages for the cost of one is really really good. It's so good I think that it will go up a ton after adventures goes online. Why is smithy so high? Smithy and envoy should be closer. They are pretty close in power level.
Logged

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2015, 02:53:19 pm »
0

Port is amazing! Two villages for the cost of one is really really good.
True, but you only get the benefit on buy.  Port anti-synergizes with gainers.  I think Port is where it belongs: right next to Worker's Village.
Logged

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1855
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #138 on: November 15, 2015, 03:36:33 pm »
0

So maybe I'm a bit out of the loop, but what's with the sudden hate on Sea Hag? It still cripples engines without strong trashing, is a cheap curser and even mucks up their next turn a little. I think it was still in my top 5, for sure.

it's just a fad. i still have her at #1. besides 5-2 on an IGG board, she's the only way to get a curse in the opponent's deck on the second shuffle, and p.s., splitting 5-2 on an IGG board is awesome.
Logged

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 892
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • Respect: +1266
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #139 on: November 15, 2015, 03:44:10 pm »
+1

So maybe I'm a bit out of the loop, but what's with the sudden hate on Sea Hag? It still cripples engines without strong trashing, is a cheap curser and even mucks up their next turn a little. I think it was still in my top 5, for sure.

it's just a fad. i still have her at #1. besides 5-2 on an IGG board, she's the only way to get a curse in the opponent's deck on the second shuffle, and p.s., splitting 5-2 on an IGG board is awesome.
the thing about it, lookout will completely cancel out one play of sea hag and you come out ahead because of the discard and +1 action. man, lookout's not even good
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 05:35:21 pm by schadd »
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1855
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #140 on: November 15, 2015, 03:45:52 pm »
+6

the thing about, lookout will completely cancel out one play of sea hag and you come out ahead because of the discard and +1 action. man, lookout's not even good

similarly, Counting House counters Ambassador, but we do not conclude that Ambassador is bad.
Logged

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1237
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1179
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #141 on: November 15, 2015, 03:47:42 pm »
0

Port is amazing! Two villages for the cost of one is really really good.
True, but you only get the benefit on buy.  Port anti-synergizes with gainers.  I think Port is where it belongs: right next to Worker's Village.
Have you played many games with port?
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #142 on: November 15, 2015, 04:57:21 pm »
0

So maybe I'm a bit out of the loop, but what's with the sudden hate on Sea Hag? It still cripples engines without strong trashing, is a cheap curser and even mucks up their next turn a little. I think it was still in my top 5, for sure.

it's just a fad. i still have her at #1. besides 5-2 on an IGG board, she's the only way to get a curse in the opponent's deck on the second shuffle, and p.s., splitting 5-2 on an IGG board is awesome.
the thing about, lookout will completely cancel out one play of sea hag and you come out ahead because of the discard and +1 action. man, lookout's not even good

Sigh. I call Poe's law.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 892
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • Respect: +1266
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #143 on: November 15, 2015, 06:23:32 pm »
+1

the thing about, lookout will completely cancel out one play of sea hag and you come out ahead because of the discard and +1 action. man, lookout's not even good

similarly, Counting House counters Ambassador, but we do not conclude that Ambassador is bad.
that's not what i said, necessarily. i said that the thing that happens when you play sea hag is completely negated by the thing that happens when you play lookout; in practice, ambassador beats the snot out of counting house, and it only gets worse when there's more cards of substance, and the strategy where you only get sea hags beats the snot out of only lookout, but remember that sea hag tries to take a card away from next turn and subsequent draws where you get the curse again, while costing a card and an action this turn, which, early on, means, sorry bud, what could've gotten a wharf this turn just gets its younger brother the fishing village. lookout, which is by all means a mediocre card, adds a card (on average, getting rid of an estate in favor of maybe drawing a copper or what have you) to next turn and future turns where you would have gotten that thing you trashed. in a good bit of cases they will completely cancel each other out.
there are legitimate empirical reasons, more elegant than my thing, that dictate that sea hag is a lot better than lookout (sea hag has a guaranteed ammunition of 10 curses, lookout might only work out 3 times with full efficiency and then less in the future, -1 vp, etc.) and, all being said, i contentedly have sea hag at #8 among 4s, perhaps higher, because there's a lot that it just doesn't let happen, but, man, sea hag doesn't help you at all, a lot of good cards do.
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

Aleimon Thimble

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 698
  • Shuffle iT Username: Aleimon Thimble
  • Respect: +711
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #144 on: November 15, 2015, 06:37:07 pm »
+1

I'm glad Throne Room got the boost it deserved. I'm also very glad not to see Herald yet. I wonder where my #1 has worked itself up to?

Young Witch is already too high though. I think it's a lot worse than Sea Hag - it can be blocked by a Bane, doesn't leave the Curse on top of your opponent's deck, and the sifting is way too weak to make up for it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 06:39:09 pm by Aleimon Thimble »
Logged
[...] The God of heaven has given you Dominion [...] (Daniel 2:37)

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2210
  • Respect: +2854
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #145 on: November 15, 2015, 07:01:54 pm »
+1

Sea Hag is still good, but the community is starting to treat it more like Bishop. It's definitely worth consideration every board, but you may not need to open it if you can do something better.

Monument feels low, but not by much. It should still be a few ranks higher.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #146 on: November 15, 2015, 08:29:20 pm »
+2

All junkers are worse with the increased numbers of trashers in the later expansions. If you are playing with just Seaside and Base, as I started out, then sea hag will still look pretty good!
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #147 on: November 15, 2015, 08:41:02 pm »
0

Young Witch is already too high though. I think it's a lot worse than Sea Hag - it can be blocked by a Bane, doesn't leave the Curse on top of your opponent's deck, and the sifting is way too weak to make up for it.

The sifting is great and way more than makes up for the advantages that Sea Hag has. Sea Hag is awful at hitting $5, Young Witch is actually pretty good at it (YW/Silver hits it exactly once unless YW misses the reshuffle), and that makes a far more important difference. Sea Hag is ignorable more often than not, Young Witch is a must-buy in most kingdoms.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1322
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #148 on: November 15, 2015, 09:07:24 pm »
+7

All of these rankings just make me want to play with adventures.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

SirSlugma

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Respect: +101
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $4 cards
« Reply #149 on: November 15, 2015, 09:20:44 pm »
0

Militia seems way too high to me.  An often useful card, but a game-changer?  I dunno, everything else in the top 11 is either really powerful or really important to fight for a split of, or both.  Sea Hag is probably the next card with the biggest argument not to be here, but hey, I had it at #6.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9  All
 

Page created in 0.077 seconds with 21 queries.