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Author Topic: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...  (Read 10137 times)

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cactus

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2015, 10:00:09 am »
+1

"In other words, Making Fun is screwed unless they cough up some cash to Apple."

I suspect it might be me who is screwed rather than Making Fun.

Watno

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2015, 10:46:31 am »
0

Well, both Goko and MF promised purchases would carry over to the iOs/Android versions, they can't simply charge us again.

They may have to.

I think their most realistic option is to have their mobile versions and computer versions be completely separate, ill-thought-out promises be damned. They'd charge very little for each expansion ($1 for Guilds, $2 for Intrigue, $3 for Dark Ages) and make it up in sales volume because that's how board game apps on mobile devices work. At those prices I'd even buy all the expansions again.

I'm not really ok with being lied to.

I already payed quite a high amount of money for Online Dominion, and will have to pay a ridculous amount of money for Adventures (if they actually manage to get that out)
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Harley_Beckett

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2015, 11:06:48 am »
+2

Thank you cactus, for expressing all my feelings these past few days without me having to!

I am also several weeks into the "Don't worry, the app will be out soon" chasm left for iPad users.  Wait, no, make that several years, if truth be told...

I agree, having to pay again for iOS use would 'suck' especially since we could play fine(ish) via the website until a few weeks ago, but right now it would be preferable to the situation we're currently in; that of being unable to play at all.

I mean, my wife is going away this weekend.  What am I supposed to do?  Meth?
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Kirian

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2015, 11:24:51 am »
0

"In other words, Making Fun is screwed unless they cough up some cash to Apple."

I suspect it might be me who is screwed rather than Making Fun.

Well, yes. :(
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funkdoc

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2015, 11:27:18 am »
0

i've thought for a while that goko/MF have zero clue with regard to their business plan.  i could easily believe they would promise something like that and just not know that apple wouldn't allow it

ever since i saw them talking so much about steam, i've been suspicious; as i've posted elsewhere, steam is a trap for smaller developers.  things like this aren't making me feel any better.

at this point i honestly wonder if they wouldn't have been better off going with crowdfunding & itch.io...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 11:28:55 am by funkdoc »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2015, 11:27:35 am »
+3

Well, both Goko and MF promised purchases would carry over to the iOs/Android versions, they can't simply charge us again.

They may have to.

I think their most realistic option is to have their mobile versions and computer versions be completely separate, ill-thought-out promises be damned. They'd charge very little for each expansion ($1 for Guilds, $2 for Intrigue, $3 for Dark Ages) and make it up in sales volume because that's how board game apps on mobile devices work. At those prices I'd even buy all the expansions again.

I'm not really ok with being lied to.

Pffft, really? Being "lied" to? There's no evidence that Making Fun intentionally deceived you. They made a promise that they thought they could deliver on, but it may turn out that they can't. If I promise my child that I'll take them to a specific amusement park next week, but the park unexpectedly closes down tomorrow, did I lie to that child?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 11:29:15 am by LastFootnote »
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Kirian

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2015, 11:34:18 am »
+1

Well, both Goko and MF promised purchases would carry over to the iOs/Android versions, they can't simply charge us again.

They may have to.

I think their most realistic option is to have their mobile versions and computer versions be completely separate, ill-thought-out promises be damned. They'd charge very little for each expansion ($1 for Guilds, $2 for Intrigue, $3 for Dark Ages) and make it up in sales volume because that's how board game apps on mobile devices work. At those prices I'd even buy all the expansions again.

I'm not really ok with being lied to.

Pffft, really? Being "lied" to? There's no evidence that Making Fun intentionally deceived you. They made a promise that they thought they could deliver on, but it may turn out that they can't. If I promise a child that I'll take them to a specific amusement park next week, but the park closes down tomorrow, did I lie to that child?

You didn't lie, but you broke a promise.   The child will be loath to believe any future promises you make.  (This is a very good reason not to make promises to children.)

Now, politicians and corporations break their promises all the time.  It results in a loss of support and/or good will, and it's usually a bad decision for a small corporation, as their profit may depend on the good will of its customers.  It's a forced error.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2015, 02:26:49 pm »
+1

You didn't lie, but you broke a promise.   The child will be loath to believe any future promises you make.  (This is a very good reason not to make promises to children.)

I'm curious: are you just advocating never using the word "promise", or are you actually advocating never telling a child in advance what you plan to do? Because even without the word "promise", sometimes you make commitments that, through no fault of your own, you can't follow through on. And always keeping your children guessing just to cover your own ass seems like a bad idea for all sorts of reasons.
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Watno

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2015, 03:05:06 pm »
+2

except in this case it's totally MF's fault.
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Kirian

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2015, 03:19:01 pm »
+2

You didn't lie, but you broke a promise.   The child will be loath to believe any future promises you make.  (This is a very good reason not to make promises to children.)

I'm curious: are you just advocating never using the word "promise", or are you actually advocating never telling a child in advance what you plan to do? Because even without the word "promise", sometimes you make commitments that, through no fault of your own, you can't follow through on. And always keeping your children guessing just to cover your own ass seems like a bad idea for all sorts of reasons.

Never using the word "promise."  "We will do our best to X," "We will try to X," both are acceptable for plans.  Obviously you tell them what plans are, but you have to teach them early that plans can change and will change.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2015, 03:34:17 pm »
0

You didn't lie, but you broke a promise.   The child will be loath to believe any future promises you make.  (This is a very good reason not to make promises to children.)

I'm curious: are you just advocating never using the word "promise", or are you actually advocating never telling a child in advance what you plan to do? Because even without the word "promise", sometimes you make commitments that, through no fault of your own, you can't follow through on. And always keeping your children guessing just to cover your own ass seems like a bad idea for all sorts of reasons.

Never using the word "promise."  "We will do our best to X," "We will try to X," both are acceptable for plans.  Obviously you tell them what plans are, but you have to teach them early that plans can change and will change.

Sure, that seems reasonable. But then the real problem is that either the parents or society has taught these children that the word "promise" means this unbreakable bond. Just as you can teach them that plans can and will change, you can also teach them that "promises" are commitments that you'll try your best to honor, not magical guarantees.
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Watno

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2015, 04:05:49 pm »
0

I think this is a better analogy:

I promise my child I'll take it to the amusement park if it mows the lawn for me 20 times. Then I find out the amusement park costs more than I thought (because I'm too stupid to read), and I make my kid mow the lawn 10 more times before I take it to the amusement park.
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blueblimp

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2015, 06:00:14 pm »
0

Wasn't Goko's iPad app accepted into the app store? I can't remember. If it was, I don't see why MF's app couldn't be accepted too, since it's basically the same thing.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2015, 06:12:02 pm »
0

Wasn't Goko's iPad app accepted into the app store? I can't remember. If it was, I don't see why MF's app couldn't be accepted too, since it's basically the same thing.

No such app was ever released to my knowledge.
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popsofctown

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2015, 06:13:47 pm »
+2

"Campaign promises" from a business can't be treated the same as personal promises between individuals.  I can honor a promise even if it turns out to be a loss for me, because it's based on a friendship or family relationship, and because I supposedly have certain altruistic components somewhere in this body the less robotic people around me insist is human.

A business can only be expected to do actions that make them a profit.  Expecting anything else from businesses is a flawed philosophy: the businesses you expect anything more than that from will cease to exist over time, that's how competition works. 

"Making a profit" in some cases can, in fact, refer to a short term loss incurred in the process of making good on one of their "promises", because over the long term the additional faith in the company results in profit on the action.  This is most frequently the case with super healthy companies that are doing super well.  Makingfun, and specifically their Dominion department, doesn't fall under that category quite so much.  If they charge for iPhone expansions, you shouldn't feel personally slighted.  With the overall reputation they have in general right now is so much lost? I don't think anyone will stop buying the expansions for PC because their illusion of Making Fun as an extremely competent company that delivers on every promise in a timely manner was shattered.  So you can't be surprised if they make a business decision with that in mind.

If they stop constantly looking for ways to make a buck, they risk sinking the ship altogether, and keeping the expansions you've already bought is an even more important "promise" they have a greater duty to.  As it so happens, just this morning I noticed the desktop icon to my favorite digital CCG, and clicked it soothingly like a man who has loved and lost.  Clicking it doesn't do anything because the game went bankrupt years ago, and I can't play a game with the collection I built, because no one can play games of it at all, period.  Moaning and whining about what a "broken promise" it is that they didn't keep running the servers at a loss doesn't seem much less reasonable than whining if MF decides to charge for the IPad app, businesses have to make pragmatic decisions.
(dougz I will wash your car and shine your shoes if you implement that dead game plox)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 08:48:31 pm by popsofctown »
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Kirian

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2015, 07:39:54 pm »
+1

"Campaign promises" from a business can't be treated the same as personal promises between individuals.  I can honor a promise even if it turns out to be a loss for me, because it's based on a friendship or family relationship, and because I supposedly have certain altruistic components somewhere in the body the less robotic people around me insist is human.

A business can only be expected to do actions that make them a profit.  Expecting anything from businesses is a flawed philosophy, the businesses you expect more than that from will cease to exist over time, that's how competition works. 

"Making a profit" in some cases can, in fact, refer to a short term loss incurred in the process of making good on one of their "promises", because over the long term the additional faith in the company results in profit on the action.  This is most frequently the case with super healthy companies that are doing super well.  Makingfun, and specifically their Dominion department, doesn't fall under that category quite so much.  If they charge for iPhone expansions, you shouldn't feel personally slighted.  With the overall reputation they have in general right now is so much lost? I don't think anyone will stop buying the expansions for PC because their illusion of Making Fun as an extremely competent company that delivers on every promise in a timely manner was shattered.  So you can't be surprised if they make a business decision with that in mind.

If they stop constantly looking for ways to make a buck, they risk sinking the ship altogether, and keeping the expansions you've already bought is an even more important "promise" they have a greater duty to.  As it so happens, I noticed the desktop icon to my favorite digital CCG, and clicked it soothingly like a man who has loved and lost.  Clicking it doesn't do anything because the game went bankrupt years ago, and I can't play a game with the collection I built, because no one can play games of it at all, period.  Moaning and whining about what a "broken promise" it is that they didn't keep running the servers at a loss doesn't seem much less reasonable than whining if MF decides to charge for the IPad app, businesses have to make pragmatic decisions.
(dougz I will wash your car and shine your shoes if you implement that dead game plox)

Now I want to know what this long-dead digital CCG was.
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popsofctown

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2015, 07:58:46 pm »
0

Carte.  Best ccg I ever played. 

Art was so gorgeous too.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 08:10:14 pm by popsofctown »
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pinkymadigan

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2015, 12:49:50 pm »
+4

For what it's worth, I brought the whole "Apple won't let you do that" argument up to Goko and MF both, several times. I'm sure evidence of it exists on one of the many feedback forums, at least.
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cactus

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2015, 04:28:11 am »
+1

Make that six weeks

Harley_Beckett

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2015, 06:35:47 am »
+4

Make that six weeks

I know, right?  I'm running out of meth...
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cactus

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2015, 06:30:10 am »
+2

More "news" from David Admin on the making fun forums:

"seeing new internal builds daily. I can't speak to a release date but it looks like these latest modifications should satisfy apple. Their review process, I think, can take over 7 days. Sorry for any vagueness. I'm not expert on that process and am reluctant to say something that may prove misleading or just wrong"

Beyond Awesome

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2015, 08:27:21 am »
+2

Well, at least it seems MF is trying to be as transparent as possible.
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rspeer

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2015, 03:52:33 pm »
+4

I suspect that they might be thwarted by Apple's harsh requirement that apps actually work.
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cactus

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2015, 09:39:15 pm »
+1

One day short of 2 months ... and we're back! Hooray!

Right what can I think of to complain about now!  :P

Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Four Weeks Without Dominion ...
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2015, 04:02:07 pm »
0

One day short of 2 months ... and we're back! Hooray!

Right what can I think of to complain about now!  :P

Sounds like you haven't used the app yet.
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