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Author Topic: A place for more moderated discussion  (Read 48953 times)

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SCSN

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2015, 03:57:20 pm »
+1

SCSN's posts did not contribute to finding data, they only whined about how hard it would be to do so.

Really Adam, you want to go there again? Well, if you're asking this nicely I can't help but comply.

My post in that thread was helpful and provided a useful datapoint, something that was crystal clear to everyone but you, and something that would have been clear to you—a man who once had a functional mind—had you not been so filled with rage that you're still spilling over when you're rising from your chair.

But of course I'm the one whining. After all, I'm the one here making all these threads about this forum being such a horrible place, about people making jokes (the utter horror!) and crying about them not being impressed with MF's breakthrough-achievements, insulting them in the process while feigning victimhood himself.

If you can't handle a dissenting opinion, if the picture of an otter so deeply offends you that you go running to your mommy with tear-streaming eyes, if the mere sight of a possible Moat (even censored to protect you) inspires in you such furious madness that you demand a personal forum to hide from the big bad world beyond your cave, if you are incapable of handling the tragic fact that the people inhabiting this world are far more independent, humorous and enterprising than the meek and obediently bland caricatures you expect them to be—if all that is so troublesome to you, why don't you just follow through with what you set out to do in the first place?

Go lock yourself up in your echo chamber, where your marvelous opinion reverberates for all eternity.

User was warned for this post.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 05:13:00 pm by theory »
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eHalcyon

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2015, 04:09:29 pm »
+3

I realize that some people think there was a relevant part to his post. I disagree, but luckily this doesn't actually matter in terms of clarifying what I'm trying to say. It is my viewpoint (and I still believe this) that literally the only thing his post accomplishes is it deters people from collecting and posting data. It would have been better for him to not say anything.

Most people thought SCSN's comment was relevant and on-topic in that thread.  That suggests that most moderators would also consider it relevant and on-topic.  Would you have been happy with theory's decision if he had explicitly ruled that it was perfectly fine?
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2015, 04:34:20 pm »
+3


If you can't handle a dissenting opinion, if the picture of an otter so deeply offends you that you go running to your mommy with tear-streaming eyes, if the mere sight of a possible Moat (even censored to protect you) inspires in you such furious madness that you demand a personal forum to hide from the big bad world beyond your cave, if you are incapable of handling the tragic fact that the people inhabiting this world are far more independent, humorous and enterprising than the meek and obediently bland caricatures you expect them to be—if all that is so troublesome to you, why don't you just follow through with what you set out to do in the first place?

Go lock yourself up in your echo chamber, where your marvelous opinion reverberates for all eternity.

This is a marvel to read (and I wish I had your writing skills), but I think it definitely qualifies as a personal attack.

"But of course I'm the one whining." If you mean this literally, again, there isn't necessarily exactly one person whining, so using the word "the" here is misleading. If by effect, the way it is framed makes it sound like the fact that adam is complaining means that you aren't.

SCSN's posts did not contribute to finding data, they only whined about how hard it would be to do so.

My post in that thread was helpful and provided a useful datapoint [...]

I can't find the thread now, but I expect from the way both of you are discussing this that you said something like "It is completely within MF's capabilities to easily find cases where this bug happened, so we shouldn't have to do it." This certainly is a valid point that should be brought to the discussion about the bug, but it does not "contribute to finding data", and that is what I expect he was complaining about.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 04:37:03 pm by XerxesPraelor »
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AdamH

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2015, 04:36:03 pm »
+1

I realize that some people think there was a relevant part to his post. I disagree, but luckily this doesn't actually matter in terms of clarifying what I'm trying to say. It is my viewpoint (and I still believe this) that literally the only thing his post accomplishes is it deters people from collecting and posting data. It would have been better for him to not say anything.

Most people thought SCSN's comment was relevant and on-topic in that thread.  That suggests that most moderators would also consider it relevant and on-topic.  Would you have been happy with theory's decision if he had explicitly ruled that it was perfectly fine?

Would I have been happy with it, umm probably not, but I think that would be the right call. I can't find the quote (I thought it was in the OP but it's not) but somewhere I said this: I've since learned that I set that thread up for failure by expecting something that's impossible and I accepted my share of the blame for what ended up happening.

Someone asked me to clarify what I meant by that quote, which requires the knowledge of what I was thinking at the time, which is the only reason I brought it up. I didn't really want to bring it up again because, well, you know.
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Deadlock39

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2015, 04:44:11 pm »
0

I'm not sure if it is good to copy this in here or not, but I think people making judgements of this particular exchange should be judging it based on how they assume it went based on comments made here.

So here's what we can do to actually help:

If you play on MF, use automatch, and get paired with somebody who you feel doesn't meet the criteria of your search, please post the following information about that game (as much of this as you can come up with):

- The automatch criteria you used
- Your MF name
- Your rating on the MF leaderboard
- Your opponent's MF name
- Your opponent's rating on the MF leaderboard

getting the ratings before the game is ideal, but you might have to check the leaderboard after the game is over to get this info. The important thing is that both ratings are collected at the same time and we know when they were collected.
- Game log

You can't find your opponent's rating unless you have the patience to scroll through literary hundreds of pages of that thing they call their leaderboard and read through thousands of names.

I do, however, have experienced countless of games where I get matched against guys with iso level -27 or worse (it goes as low as -72) and gained 0 MF rating points after a win.

theory

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2015, 05:20:34 pm »
+16

I don't really care about the SCSN v. AdamH drama.  I think it's pretty irrelevant to this topic, as it is to nearly all topics, and it does not interest me. 

Accordingly I have enabled Ignore Lists on the forum, accessible here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore;  You may now automatically ignore all posts of anyone you don't want to see - though I believe posts from administrators and the moderator of a particular forum are still visible.  I believe I speak for many of us when I say that I hope these two gentlemen agree to Ignore each other and move on with their lives.

Meta-discussion about your ignore list (including, but not limited to, "I have ignored X!  She is a useless sack of woogly weasels!", or "Should I just ignore Y?  He is a pointless bag of derpy dromedaries!") is unproductive and not permitted.  Keep it to yourself.

On a more positive note Buddy Lists are also introduced; I don't know what they do, but apparently we can be buddies now. 
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SCSN

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2015, 05:22:57 pm »
+1

This is my new favorite thread; it has earned me the following badge of honor:

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You have received a warning for insulting other users and/or staff members in regards to the message:
Re: A place for more moderated discussion.

Please cease these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take further action.

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Accatitippi

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2015, 05:27:19 pm »
+6

This is my new favorite thread; it has earned me the following badge of honor:

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SheCantSayNo,

You have received a warning for insulting other users and/or staff members in regards to the message:
Re: A place for more moderated discussion.

Please cease these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take further action.

Regards,
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I'm sure you have a lot of things to be proud about, hell I could list many myself. But really this is not one of them.
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theory

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2015, 05:27:22 pm »
0

Also, as to the actual topic of the thread, I appreciate the concerns with people not wanting to splinter discussion.  I still don't see what the problem is with labeling a thread [Serious], then relying both on our good faith to not post "can't all be the best moat ever" while reporting any posts that violate that request.  We could start by trying out a [Serious] General Discussion thread.
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SCSN

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2015, 05:35:03 pm »
0

This is my new favorite thread; it has earned me the following badge of honor:

Quote from: Dominion Strategy Forum
SheCantSayNo,

You have received a warning for insulting other users and/or staff members in regards to the message:
Re: A place for more moderated discussion.

Please cease these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take further action.

Regards,
The Dominion Strategy Forum Team.

Thanks to all who nominated my contributions, I will not dissapoint you in the future.

I'm sure you have a lot of things to be proud about, hell I could list many myself. But really this is not one of them.

The original patch took me a weekend; this took me well over three years.
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Witherweaver

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2015, 05:39:41 pm »
+2

The original patch took me a weekend; this took me well over three years.

I, personally, don't think you deserve the badge, because you didn't take the opportunity to mix in a mine/mint joke.  Also, "utter horror" could have been "otter horror". 
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DG

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2015, 06:05:39 pm »
+3

Also, as to the actual topic of the thread, I appreciate the concerns with people not wanting to splinter discussion.  I still don't see what the problem is with labeling a thread [Serious], then relying both on our good faith to not post "can't all be the best moat ever" while reporting any posts that violate that request.  We could start by trying out a [Serious] General Discussion thread.

What punishment will there be if we spoil a discussion of spoils, ruin a serious argument about ruins, or trash talk graverobbers?
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werothegreat

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2015, 06:15:55 pm »
+1

We could start by trying out a [Serious] General Discussion thread.

Well, we do already have an RSP subforum...
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Donald X.

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2015, 08:35:58 pm »
+4

Also, as to the actual topic of the thread, I appreciate the concerns with people not wanting to splinter discussion.  I still don't see what the problem is with labeling a thread [Serious], then relying both on our good faith to not post "can't all be the best moat ever" while reporting any posts that violate that request.  We could start by trying out a [Serious] General Discussion thread.
What will happen is, someone will think something is a reasonable reply (like, "but there's no way to see their rating, so what you ask is not possible"), and someone else will not think it is reasonable, and unless your decision as a moderator is "oops [serious] doesn't actually mean anything" then you are hurting the forums. If it became a common thing then people would start another site, say "dominionsalvation," where they wouldn't have to deal with that nonsense. Man I can pledge right now to post a picture of an otter in every [serious] thread. Serious threads are fine; [serious] threads are poison.

That's my experience! I would link you to examples on other forums, but those urls have been taken over by people looking to make a tiny amount of ad revenue from links to long-dead sites.

And banning talk of ignore lists, it's well-intentioned, but mostly the only time people talk about them is to joke about them, and some of those people won't have seen your post or won't remember that they can get in trouble for making a joke, and so ultimately it punishes Top Posters.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 08:39:34 pm by Donald X. »
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eHalcyon

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2015, 08:47:53 pm »
+1

Man I can pledge right now to post a picture of an otter in every [serious] thread.



I actually think [serious] is fine.  The key thing would be where the arbitrary line is drawn to determine what is serious enough, and we'd have to trust the mod's judgement there.  I think your doomsday scenario applies when that line is drawn in the wrong place, but it's pretty easy to just cut out all the cheap memetic jokes, especially when that's the entirety of a post.
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Donald X.

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2015, 09:07:34 pm »
+3

Ultimately forums serve two entities - the owners and the posters. The owners can make the calls, have whatever forums they want; people who don't like it can go elsewhere, start their own forums, not be parasitic. But then there's the posters; if the forums don't please the posters then they do in fact go elsewhere. Forums exist for the people who use them, or stop existing.

I have seen multiple forum sites die in my day. In fact only one of them was due to [serious] and such. Still it did happen and seems so clearly awful to me. You have ignore lists, you ignore Ozle, his silly post shows up in some thread, it's fun for him and maybe some other people, and not hurting you, unless your scroll wheel is giving you arthritis.

But I mean, it's theory's site, and people are here for now. I'm here until it starts sucking, or I'm banned for civil disobedience.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2015, 09:41:11 pm »
0

or I'm banned for civil disobedience.

No way dude, I already put you on my buddy list.
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AdamH

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2015, 09:50:25 pm »
0

I believe I speak for many of us when I say that I hope these two gentlemen agree to Ignore each other and move on with their lives.

On a more positive note Buddy Lists are also introduced; I don't know what they do, but apparently we can be buddies now.

Yeah I couldn't agree more.

The description of these things is a little, umm, non-descriptive. I'm quite curious as to what is actually happening, particularly with the buddy lists, but this would require some experimentation and is most certainly off-topic.
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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2015, 01:16:12 am »
0

Also, as to the actual topic of the thread, I appreciate the concerns with people not wanting to splinter discussion.  I still don't see what the problem is with labeling a thread [Serious], then relying both on our good faith to not post "can't all be the best moat ever" while reporting any posts that violate that request.  We could start by trying out a [Serious] General Discussion thread.

I don't think a [Serious] General Discussion thread would work; General Discussion is, by definition, about anything.  I have absolutely no idea what would be allowed there or not.
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Awaclus

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #94 on: November 11, 2015, 01:28:19 am »
+1

Also, as to the actual topic of the thread, I appreciate the concerns with people not wanting to splinter discussion.  I still don't see what the problem is with labeling a thread [Serious], then relying both on our good faith to not post "can't all be the best moat ever" while reporting any posts that violate that request.  We could start by trying out a [Serious] General Discussion thread.

I don't think a [Serious] General Discussion thread would work; General Discussion is, by definition, about anything.  I have absolutely no idea what would be allowed there or not.

Well, a serious Random Stuff was tried out, and then people stopped posting in it.
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Donald X.

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2015, 03:26:00 am »
+2

Well, a serious Random Stuff was tried out, and then people stopped posting in it.
The system works!
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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2015, 07:04:59 am »
+5

1. I would rather get mildly annoyed by ten "Scout is a bad card" jokes than let one brilliant joke go unposted.

2. Man scout is a bad card. I was just thinking about this in the scout thread when someone was like would you take a free scout with your Duchy and I was all no! no I don't want a free scout. and I take free duchesses like all the time, I am not picky.

3. If we start having threads with [Serious], inevitably it's going to happen that someone posts something a little tangential or edge-casey and the OP of the thread is all "but I put a serious tag!" and that thread will then turn into this thread that we are having right now, boooo.

4. Even if we could avoid (3), I'm concerned that [Serious] will actively cause threads not-labeled with [Serious] to disintegrate into junk.

5. But no seriously, it's bad. Like, it has +1 Action, you would think, how can a cantrip be the worst card? But it's still the worst card, in spite of that +1 action. I'm actually coming around to it being worse than Transmute.

6. I don't see a lot of value in long consistent threads. I recognize that this is controversial, but for most threads, either
a. The first post is an article with bunches of good advice, and I read the comments once and occasionally get a small marginal benefit over if I had just read the article,
or
b. The thread is a list of tips that are all good but don't really need to be in one place for any compelling reason. It never matters when these threads derail, and in any event they become obsolete and hidden.

7. I prefer a non-democratic resolution to these problems; there's a reason theory is benevolent dictator for life. Voting just means more time discussing this instead of other stuff, and eh.
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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2015, 07:32:50 am »
0

I take free duchesses like all the time, I am not picky.

Me too. Almost every time I regret after, but it's so hard to control yourself in the heat of the moment!

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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2015, 07:37:03 am »
0

I take free duchesses like all the time, I am not picky.

Me too. Almost every time I regret after, but it's so hard to control yourself in the heat of the moment!

Scout is non-terminal, that's a big deal. You also necessarily have some green in your deck when you pick up a Scout this way. I would guess that I would get Scouts this way more often than I would get Duchesses. I am actually very interested in trying this out now.
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Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2015, 08:54:25 am »
0

Navigator is better than Scout.

And Navigator is shit.
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