Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Contraband+Tournament Prizes  (Read 5093 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

krawhitham

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« on: June 22, 2011, 05:00:39 am »
0

Contraband: When you play this, the player to your left names a card. You can't buy that card this turn.

During tournament games Isotropic brings up extra options to prevent Tournament Prizes from being bought.

Tournament: Each player may reveal a Province from his hand. If you do, discard it and gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or a Duchy.

Since the prize is gained and not bought, surely this option to name a tournament prize is unecessary or am I missing something?
Logged

DStu

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2627
  • Respect: +1490
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 05:09:42 am »
0

I would guess it's not unnecessary in the sense that the rules allow them to be named, so isotropic takes care that you can name them. But I don't see any reason why you should name them.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3603
  • Respect: +6125
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 08:38:39 am »
0

In real life you can name literally any card, presumably even cards that do not exist.  "I forbid you from buying Black Lotus."  Probably Isotropic decided to implement this as faithfully as possible (listing every card available in this game) without taking it to such ridiculous lengths.

I wonder if there are Godelian consequences of this.  Such as, "I name the card Blankety-Blah, which we have decided is a Treasure worth $6 that you gain if and only if you ever name this card due to a Contraband."
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 08:40:49 am by theory »
Logged

DStu

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2627
  • Respect: +1490
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 08:53:30 am »
0

I wonder if there are Godelian consequences of this.  Such as, "I name the card Blankety-Blah, which we have decided is a Treasure worth $6 that you gain if and only if you ever name this card due to a Contraband."

At first glance I don't see this "problems", as you can only name a card and not define what it does. So you must have defined this card before, and than you basically have a house-rule for an additional card "Blankety-Blah" and of course for "Contraband".

But interesting question...
Edit: Thought a bit more about it. Still no. Because: If you assume that there is any card out there that you can bring into "existence" by naming it or interacting with contraband, you assume that there are more cards out there than the ones officially designed. If this is the case, there is no reason why you don't can't assume any card you like to exists, including the "Card of extremly overpowered counterexample" which says "You win! - If you think of this card, it will appear in your hand."
So basically - to exclude this counterexamples - you have to restrict yourself to cards that already exists, and so you also can't generate a "Blankety-Blah" with a Contraband. Because then you also would be able to generate any other card by any other non-restricted action. Like thinking.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 09:01:47 am by DStu »
Logged

Thisisnotasmile

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
  • Respect: +676
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 09:03:43 am »
0

But can you name "A card with the Dominion logo on the back"?
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6367
  • Respect: +25712
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 12:53:32 pm »
0

Contraband: When you play this, the player to your left names a card. You can't buy that card this turn.

During tournament games Isotropic brings up extra options to prevent Tournament Prizes from being bought.

Tournament: Each player may reveal a Province from his hand. If you do, discard it and gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or a Duchy.

Since the prize is gained and not bought, surely this option to name a tournament prize is unecessary or am I missing something?
It seems likely that there's simply one name-a-card algorithm in the program, and Doug used it everywhere. You can meaningfully Wish for a Princess, for example.

The rules do not specify if "name a card" lets you pick the 3 of Clubs or not, and I don't see a situation yet where they have to. In practice I expect most people infer that you must name a Dominion card. Naming a homemade card that says "if you name this you win" doesn't get you anywhere, outside of house ruled games, because Dominion has no such rule.
Logged

Death to Sea Hags

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 90
  • Respect: +20
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 02:24:02 pm »
0

But can you name "A card with the Dominion logo on the back"?

If I get to give it to you...
Logged

WallyNate

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
  • Respect: +35
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 04:07:52 pm »
0

I wonder if there are Godelian consequences of this.  Such as, "I name the card Blankety-Blah, which we have decided is a Treasure worth $6 that you gain if and only if you ever name this card due to a Contraband."

Damn you, Kurt Gödel!  Now Dominion will never be complete without being inconsistent!
Logged

krawhitham

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 04:52:20 pm »
0

Contraband: When you play this, the player to your left names a card. You can't buy that card this turn.

During tournament games Isotropic brings up extra options to prevent Tournament Prizes from being bought.

Tournament: Each player may reveal a Province from his hand. If you do, discard it and gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or a Duchy.

Since the prize is gained and not bought, surely this option to name a tournament prize is unecessary or am I missing something?
It seems likely that there's simply one name-a-card algorithm in the program, and Doug used it everywhere. You can meaningfully Wish for a Princess, for example.

The rules do not specify if "name a card" lets you pick the 3 of Clubs or not, and I don't see a situation yet where they have to. In practice I expect most people infer that you must name a Dominion card. Naming a homemade card that says "if you name this you win" doesn't get you anywhere, outside of house ruled games, because Dominion has no such rule.


Yes I did come to this conclusion myself when I had thought about it some more, I'm guessing the same coding for Embargo is used for Contraband and meant for interaction with Black Market.

My initial reaction was "why did they bother to code Tournament prizes for naming with contraband?". This is what happens when you hastily post threads mid game..
Logged

drg

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Contraband+Tournament Prizes
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2011, 04:35:57 pm »
0

I thought the point was to give Theory a headache needing plurals of the prizes in the logs :)
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.049 seconds with 20 queries.