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Author Topic: League of Explorers Discussion  (Read 22367 times)

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Jorbles

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2015, 12:15:04 pm »
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The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(
Yep, against certain decks I will keep an ironbeak in my opening hand quite often, (assuming I draw it), it's such a hard counter to scientist and will cripple an opening for some decks.

When I see someone do that I always think to myself "Oooo this guy knows what he's doing."
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2015, 12:48:50 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2015, 12:54:11 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2015, 12:55:21 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2015, 12:57:09 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.

But it isn't in a Face Hunter deck.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2015, 12:57:20 pm »
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I think the Spiders are worth silencing sometimes.

Edit: Or the Eggs.
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Jorbles

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2015, 12:58:17 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.

Face Hunters don't run it though so you might not even see that.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2015, 02:01:08 pm »
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The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(
Yep, against certain decks I will keep an ironbeak in my opening hand quite often, (assuming I draw it), it's such a hard counter to scientist and will cripple an opening for some decks.

When I see someone do that I always think to myself "Oooo this guy knows what he's doing."
Do you mean this sarcastically?  I assure you it works.
it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
Mad Scientist is strong enough that you don't really expect better than a 1-1 trade.  The point is the tempo lead it gives you.  If you're forcing a tempo mage deck to ping on turn 2 or turn 3, you're at a big advantage, even if you're a card down.
I repeat: AGAINST CERTAIN DECKS.  I'm not saying this is always right, but against an aggressive deck (Hunter in particular), it's usually good, certainly better than risking mulliganing the owl and drawing a no-early-game opening hand.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2015, 02:04:42 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.
Oh and I take issue with this to some extent too.
It obviously depends what deck you're playing, but for my midrange paladin deck for instance I'd much rather use the silence on a Mad Scientist than a Sludge (against midrange/hybrid hunter) most of the time.  I value shutting down aggro and trust that I can outcontrol something as slow as a Sludge.

Situational of course, but for me priority silence targets against midrange/hybrid hunter go (in descending order of priority)
Highmane>MS>Sludge.
There are probably other silence targets I'm missing, but none that I can think of would be higher priority than Sludge to my mind.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2015, 02:07:06 pm »
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Thinking about my games with midrange paladin last month (I finished rk 3 I think, mostly played arena last month), I probably did this 6 or 7 times and won each of those games.  (So maybe 6/7 out of however many games doesn't qualify as 'often', but relatively often might cover it)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2015, 02:38:23 pm »
+1

I think Jorbles is being serious.  It's non-obvious exactly how devastating neutralising a Hunter's Mad Scientist is.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2015, 02:39:20 pm »
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So we agree.  Good times. :)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2015, 02:48:08 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.

Blueblimp pretty well explained why Mad Scientist is a messed up card to have in the game.  The alternative to him was to just make better secrets over time, but he was a quick and dirty and ugly card.  And he makes games swingy as hell, it sucks to draw him after you've drawn all your secrets even when running the correct # of secrets, it sucks to fight someone who played him on curve, just kinda suck sucks.

But yeah Haunted Creeper and Sludge Belcher seem like pretty good cards for the game I won't disagree with that.  I wouldn't disagree that Naxx isn't better than classic, I just excluded Classic earlier because it seems too hard to compare with expansions that don't have a before and after story for people who weren't in alpha.

Any OP cards in the upcoming set (which seems more doubtful than Naxx), is going to at least be OP in a healthier way that can be countered with the right strategies.  The answers aren't going to be "use your kill spell on a 1 drop lol" or "hope your opponent draws the sh#$%ty secrets instead of the power card", they're going to be "build a deck with a strong board presence that can last through Reno's heal" or "keep a Fireball for the monkey and apply pressure", or even, at the worst, "owl the rogue's loot hoarder", which isn't nearly as awful as Naxx's nut cards.
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Haddock

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2015, 03:03:28 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.
Yeah I wasn't entirely clear there.  I think I meant to say that Naxx had only 2 actually badly designed cards (MS and Undertaker) that I can think of offhand.  I completely agree with you and with blueblimp about the poor design of both MS and Undertaker.

I just think that GvG and TGT (maybe not BrM, I had forgotten about that, hmm) had MORE badly designed cards than Naxx did.  Anyway.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2015, 03:22:43 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.
Yeah I wasn't entirely clear there.  I think I meant to say that Naxx had only 2 actually badly designed cards (MS and Undertaker) that I can think of offhand.  I completely agree with you and with blueblimp about the poor design of both MS and Undertaker.

I just think that GvG and TGT (maybe not BrM, I had forgotten about that, hmm) had MORE badly designed cards than Naxx did.  Anyway.

Well they also had more cards total.  Are you sure the proportion is worse?

It's also more useful to look at the ratio of cards that actually improved the games to the ones that detrimented it rather than just the card total. TGT would probably be the worst set by that metric, since I can't think of a single TGT card that is seeing active play and I am also glad to see and active play, something like Sludge Belcher, Tinkertown Tech, Flamecannon, Spiderbabies, etc.  Just lolchallenger
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 03:24:53 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2015, 03:25:20 pm »
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I guess not.  Yeah I didn't think it through epically well, you're probably right.

In response to your edit, the only one I can think of is Justicar.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2015, 03:39:19 pm »
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I wish I had a good excuse to use Justicar, but the only deck I'm having any luck piloting is Face Hunter.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2015, 03:39:48 pm »
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Forgotten Torch is a spell with Deathrattle.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2015, 03:40:41 pm »
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I wish I had a good excuse to use Justicar, but the only deck I'm having any luck piloting is Face Hunter.
Midrange Paladin isn't a particularly hard deck to play, but it's not a particularly cheap deck.  Justicar fits pretty nicely.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Jorbles

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2015, 03:46:58 pm »
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The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(
Yep, against certain decks I will keep an ironbeak in my opening hand quite often, (assuming I draw it), it's such a hard counter to scientist and will cripple an opening for some decks.

When I see someone do that I always think to myself "Oooo this guy knows what he's doing."
Do you mean this sarcastically?  I assure you it works.

No, I did not mean it sarcastically. Sigh, the internet and tone.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2015, 03:58:34 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.
Yeah I wasn't entirely clear there.  I think I meant to say that Naxx had only 2 actually badly designed cards (MS and Undertaker) that I can think of offhand.  I completely agree with you and with blueblimp about the poor design of both MS and Undertaker.

I just think that GvG and TGT (maybe not BrM, I had forgotten about that, hmm) had MORE badly designed cards than Naxx did.  Anyway.

Well they also had more cards total.  Are you sure the proportion is worse?

It's also more useful to look at the ratio of cards that actually improved the games to the ones that detrimented it rather than just the card total. TGT would probably be the worst set by that metric, since I can't think of a single TGT card that is seeing active play and I am also glad to see and active play, something like Sludge Belcher, Tinkertown Tech, Flamecannon, Spiderbabies, etc.  Just lolchallenger

I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2015, 04:07:05 pm »
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I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust

Kibler is running one right now. I watched him stream it a bit yesterday, it's pretty fun, but doesn't seem particularly strong, also it's hella tricky to play. Lots of places you can make mistakes. Seems to rely on getting Rivendare out with Dreadsteed at some point.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #97 on: November 10, 2015, 05:57:52 pm »
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I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust

Kibler is running one right now. I watched him stream it a bit yesterday, it's pretty fun, but doesn't seem particularly strong, also it's hella tricky to play. Lots of places you can make mistakes. Seems to rely on getting Rivendare out with Dreadsteed at some point.

Or Kel'Thuzad.  If you can keep at least one from being Silenced, you can actually make Anima Golem work.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2015, 06:03:33 pm »
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I wish I had a good excuse to use Justicar, but the only deck I'm having any luck piloting is Face Hunter.
Midrange Paladin isn't a particularly hard deck to play, but it's not a particularly cheap deck.  Justicar fits pretty nicely.
Chairs self identifies as aggro so I'm not sure he would enjoy a deck that plays Zombie Chow
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2015, 06:11:59 pm »
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I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust

Kibler is running one right now. I watched him stream it a bit yesterday, it's pretty fun, but doesn't seem particularly strong, also it's hella tricky to play. Lots of places you can make mistakes. Seems to rely on getting Rivendare out with Dreadsteed at some point.

Or Kel'Thuzad.  If you can keep at least one from being Silenced, you can actually make Anima Golem work.

His deck didn't run Kel or Anima Golems. It was basically Demonlock with Dreadsteeds and Rivendare. He didn't comment on Animas, but said that he didn't like Kel because it cost too much to cast and there weren't tricky ways to get it out early (like there are with Demons).
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