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werothegreat

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League of Explorers Discussion
« on: November 06, 2015, 04:39:01 pm »
0

New Adventure coming out on 11/12!

trailer:


Blizzcon announcement:


Temple Escape playthrough:
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 05:07:47 pm »
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Looks like hearthpwn is putting up tons of cards. Some look interesting. Murlocs anyone?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2015, 05:16:26 pm »
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Haven't watched it yet, hope that puzzles mean .. well, "find leathal with these cards" type of puzzles!
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2015, 05:23:27 pm »
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The discover mechanic seems cool. I like the random-card-to-hand as a way to give random cards (like in Webspinner, Unstable Portal) because then the mana cost and battlecry of the card still matter. And with the pick-1-of-3 mechanic, it should be pretty high skill too.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2015, 06:57:47 pm »
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It's a good mechanic, but if they don't push it, it won't end up in decks, and thus won't up the ante on the skill level for the game.

The card that seems the most powerfu out of those spoiled is Unearthed Raptor, which is a bit more RNGish.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2015, 07:05:31 pm »
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Tunnel Trogg seems to be Shaman's version of Mana Wyrm

Ethereal Conjurer is a better Spellslinger
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 07:13:36 pm »
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The temple escape playthrough made me cry at how bad the decision-making was for that playthrough, but it's neat as a concept.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 07:51:18 pm »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 07:53:47 pm »
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Jeez, I am already playing like 10 legends in control warrior, this gut has to find his place


There are some things that you probably still want 2x, but you can draw those (hopefully) and jeez, this guy is so great if he hits :D
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 09:07:33 pm by Grujah »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 07:55:24 pm »
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Molten Molten Reno seems way way too strong
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 07:59:05 pm »
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The drawback condition is pretty real, tho.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2015, 07:59:42 pm »
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Oh Gorilla Bot A-3, that's refreshing.  Comparable stats to Shredder, much worse effect than shredder, and then, still seems too strong, we better require you to have a mech in play to trigger it.

ahhahahahahahah
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2015, 08:02:02 pm »
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The drawback condition is pretty real, tho.

Not really.  Handlock is pretty singletonly as it is.  People go down to 1 mountain giant or 1 drake all the time based on matchups just because a tap tap opening has so much consistency anyway.  Handlock is about having a deck full of cards that synergize with your hero power, they don't have to synergize with eachother, so you can easily afford not to run dupes.  And Molten Molten Reno is so GG.  I think it's going to be a thing.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2015, 08:41:31 pm »
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Kinda weird that there is no huge slow hypetrain.

It's only an Adventure.  Granted, the biggest one they've released so far, but I think they save hype for expansions, and even then, Hearthstone doesn't really spend much time on hype - there's a pretty quick turnaround in the release of new content.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 08:46:56 pm »
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Holy crap, they're really killing it this time. Most of these cards have amazing design and they seem pretty well-balanced as well.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2015, 08:56:01 pm »
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Yeah these cards are looking pretty cool. I'm looking at them and "How would I build a deck to make use of these?" is the question that pops into my head.

I wonder if that 4 mana 7/7 that can only attack if it's the only friendly minion on the field can find a place in Handlock.

Also some pretty strong deathrattle effects going on here, like the 6-mana 2/6 that summons three 2/2s on deathrattle and of course the Druid's 3-mana Shredder. I wonder if Rogue can do anything with the 3 mana 3/4 that copies a friendly deathrattle. Priest's Entomb is another card that looks kind of exciting.

Also Warrior got some pretty good commons for Arena.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2015, 09:07:01 pm »
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Raven Idol is sweet too.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2015, 09:15:44 pm »
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Raven Idol is sweet too.
I actually wonder which choice if any will become more popular than the other.

Druid also got a beast that grants +2 Spell Damage to both players. Neato.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2015, 09:42:35 pm »
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I am pretty sure it is going to be spells.
If I understood correctly, you only get choices that could go into your deck (ie neutral + your class) so choosing spells will give you better cards on average + chances of you hitting FoN or Roar (whichever you are missing) aren't that bad either (around 10%, i believe).
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2015, 11:55:44 pm »
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I wonder if that 4 mana 7/7 that can only attack if it's the only friendly minion on the field can find a place in Handlock.


Only minion on the battlefield, period.  Still might be usable in handlock though, you can just taunt it up or owl it.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2015, 11:58:00 pm »
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I wonder if that 4 mana 7/7 that can only attack if it's the only friendly minion on the field can find a place in Handlock.


Only minion on the battlefield, period.  Still might be usable in handlock though, you can just taunt it up or owl it.

Or a control Mage that can keep the board clear.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2015, 12:04:47 am »
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I wonder if that 4 mana 7/7 that can only attack if it's the only friendly minion on the field can find a place in Handlock.


Only minion on the battlefield, period.  Still might be usable in handlock though, you can just taunt it up or owl it.
Aww I could have sworn it was only for friendly minions. But hey, a bigger Ancient Watcher still has a chance to become relevant. Too bad it's in BGH range. Still might get a swing in after a Hellfire or Shadowflame.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2015, 12:49:00 am »
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I wonder if that 4 mana 7/7 that can only attack if it's the only friendly minion on the field can find a place in Handlock.


Only minion on the battlefield, period.  Still might be usable in handlock though, you can just taunt it up or owl it.
Aww I could have sworn it was only for friendly minions. But hey, a bigger Ancient Watcher still has a chance to become relevant. Too bad it's in BGH range. Still might get a swing in after a Hellfire or Shadowflame.

Handlock has so many BGH targets though.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2015, 04:06:59 am »
+1

They printed a card strictly better than Wisp.:o
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2015, 04:55:10 am »
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They printed a card strictly better than Wisp.:o

It's not strictly better because of Hungry Crab.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2015, 05:17:31 am »
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They printed a card strictly better than Wisp.:o

It's not strictly better because of Hungry Crab.

http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Strictly_better
Quote
Strictly better describes a card which is, in isolation from other effects, superior to another card in at least one respect, while being worse in zero respects. Cards are commonly found to be strictly better than others by virtue of lower cost, larger effect, instant speed, greater power or toughness, or more versatile or added effects.
In Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why Murloc Tinyfin is considered strictly better than Wisp according to this definition.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2015, 05:31:55 am »
+2

In Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why Murloc Tinyfin is considered strictly better than Wisp according to this definition.

Having a minion type doesn't do anything in isolation.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2015, 06:15:39 am »
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They printed a card strictly better than Wisp.:o

Yeah, since now all cards were only plainly better than wisp, now we finally have a strictly better one.

And Tinyfin actually makes things WORSE for murlocs.

Like, it nerfs Nepulon and more importantly, Murloc Knight.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 06:17:30 am by Grujah »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2015, 06:24:46 am »
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Huge Toad replaces Raptor as the definitive 2-mana minion.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2015, 08:36:55 am »
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I want to Entomb a Tirion Fordring.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2015, 08:48:12 am »
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Excavated Evil is interesting. Against control you give them a board clear later, but against aggro you kill one of their draws. I wonder if that's good enough to run. I doubt it, but its cool.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2015, 09:13:11 am »
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They printed a card strictly better than Wisp.:o

Yeah, since now all cards were only plainly better than wisp, now we finally have a strictly better one.

And Tinyfin actually makes things WORSE for murlocs.

Like, it nerfs Nepulon and more importantly, Murloc Knight.
The 1/3 Legendary Murloc is also sort of a nerf to those cards.

Excavated Evil is interesting. Against control you give them a board clear later, but against aggro you kill one of their draws. I wonder if that's good enough to run. I doubt it, but its cool.

The problem I see with Excavated Evil is that Priest needs the minions it plays to survive. I think Lightbomb will often be the board wipe Priest wants. I like how they finally introduced a card to muck up the opponent's draw for real. It looks like the dev team is getting more experimental. It could still be good against the right deck

Also yeah the floodgates for strictly better cards have truly opened.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2015, 09:16:33 am »
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But sure it's strictly better, but not in a way that affects the game. Same as Ice Rager. It just doesn't matter. Piloted Shredder is power creep that matters.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2015, 09:49:05 am »
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But sure it's strictly better, but not in a way that affects the game. Same as Ice Rager. It just doesn't matter. Piloted Shredder is power creep that matters.

Yeah I can't call it powercreep because no one was playing Bloodfen Raptor, and any deck that would play Wisp wouldn't care for the Murloc tag.

I hope they one day make a card that gives a benefits to pure vanilla creatures that are in your hand or deck.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2015, 11:59:25 am »
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I want to Entomb a Tirion Fordring.

Took my a while to figure this out, I hate it when they use MTG name for a completely different effect :P
Entomb is, and always will be, search your library for a card and put it in your graveyard :P
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2015, 12:40:58 pm »
+1

Tinyfin isn't a Wisp buff, it's a Murloc Knight nerf.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2015, 01:16:12 pm »
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Tinyfin is cool because of the new Shaman spell. It could maybe get a good tempo play in the mid game. Thing is Shaman needs card draw, and murlocs NEED card draw. So I still doubt it'll be a thing.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2015, 03:57:57 pm »
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Somebody on reddit noticed that Freeze Mage got quite a buff.
First, Jackson. Given that FM usually draws it's whole deck, that + 2 Ice Block will be annoying.
Second, that dwarf explorer that doubles battlecries. As in, Healbot Battlecries.
Third, Torch. Usually the problem of Freeze Mage was that if you used Fireballs/frostbolts as removal, you were in deep shit unless you get some mileage of Antonidas. Torch can remove creatures early and be cheap fireball to face latter.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2015, 06:45:19 pm »
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In Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why Murloc Tinyfin is considered strictly better than Wisp according to this definition.

Having a minion type doesn't do anything in isolation.
Why is that relevant? What I claimed is still true: in Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why cards like Puddlestomper (3/2 murloc) and Bloodfen Raptor (3/2 beast) can coexist as neutrals alongside cards like Knife Juggler (3/2 with triggered upside) and Wild Pyromancer (3/2 with triggered upside).
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2015, 06:53:14 pm »
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In Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why Murloc Tinyfin is considered strictly better than Wisp according to this definition.

Having a minion type doesn't do anything in isolation.
Why is that relevant? What I claimed is still true: in Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why cards like Puddlestomper (3/2 murloc) and Bloodfen Raptor (3/2 beast) can coexist as neutrals alongside cards like Knife Juggler (3/2 with triggered upside) and Wild Pyromancer (3/2 with triggered upside).

Huge Toad is a 3/2 Beast with a deathrattle, which makes it strictly better than Raptor, right?

(Edge case: hits Patron/enrage dudes)
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2015, 07:00:21 pm »
+1

Why is that relevant? What I claimed is still true: in Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why cards like Puddlestomper (3/2 murloc) and Bloodfen Raptor (3/2 beast) can coexist as neutrals alongside cards like Knife Juggler (3/2 with triggered upside) and Wild Pyromancer (3/2 with triggered upside).

It is pretty relevant. Either "strictly better" means "strictly better in isolation" or "strictly better with all the other cards". You can't cherry pick which cards, otherwise every card is strictly better than every card.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2015, 07:32:44 pm »
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Why is that relevant? What I claimed is still true: in Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why cards like Puddlestomper (3/2 murloc) and Bloodfen Raptor (3/2 beast) can coexist as neutrals alongside cards like Knife Juggler (3/2 with triggered upside) and Wild Pyromancer (3/2 with triggered upside).

It is pretty relevant. Either "strictly better" means "strictly better in isolation" or "strictly better with all the other cards". You can't cherry pick which cards, otherwise every card is strictly better than every card.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Tell me which of these you disagree with:
  • In Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered beneficial, compared to not having a minion type.
  • Murloc Tinyfin is the same as Wisp apart from having a minion type added.
  • The standard CCG/MTG definition of strictly better.

My best guess at what you're arguing is that having a minion type is not beneficial. My counter-argument is, Bloodfen Raptor (neutral 2 mana 3/2 beast) and Wild Pyromancer (neutral 2 mana 3/2 with a triggered upside) were both cards in the initial release, and it's clear (to me at least) that the balance idea was that "being a beast" and "having a triggered upside" are both considered beneficial additions to a card.

But let's say you don't trust the balance within a single release. (Although I think they've been careful to not release neutrals with a strictly-better relationship at the same time.) If you then ask "how do we really know that having a minion type is beneficial without considering other cards?", I'd say that it's a fundamental design decision of Hearthstone that every minion type has significantly more cards that benefit from that type than that punish having that type. The minion types are Beast, Demon, Dragon, Mech, Murloc, Pirate, Totem. All of these have notable synergies with the minion type (examples: Houndmaster, Mal'Ganis, Blackwing Corruptor, Tinkertown Technician, Murloc Warleader, Southsea Captain, Thunder Bluff Valiant). Only the strongest minion types have hate cards, and they are all pretty much unplayably bad (examples: Hemet Nesingwary for beasts, Sacrificial Pact for demons, Hungry Crab for murlocs).

The only place I can see to go from there is to say, "well, what if there were no other cards in the entire game", because it's clear that if there _are_, then there are definitely going to be synergies with minion type, at least for murloc and beast. (Some of the other minion types didn't have synergies at time of release, although they didn't have anti-synergies either at that time IIRC.) But if that's the assumption we're using, then Wild Pyromancer's effect is also not beneficial, since if we pretend there are no other cards in the game, then there are no spells in the game. It becomes an absurd standard to use to judge cards.

Remember that definitions are chosen to be useful. If we were to choose a definition of "beneficial" that excluded a lot of effects that are obviously beneficial, that would not be a useful definition.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2015, 07:47:22 pm »
0

Why is that relevant? What I claimed is still true: in Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why cards like Puddlestomper (3/2 murloc) and Bloodfen Raptor (3/2 beast) can coexist as neutrals alongside cards like Knife Juggler (3/2 with triggered upside) and Wild Pyromancer (3/2 with triggered upside).

It is pretty relevant. Either "strictly better" means "strictly better in isolation" or "strictly better with all the other cards". You can't cherry pick which cards, otherwise every card is strictly better than every card.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Tell me which of these you disagree with:
  • In Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered beneficial, compared to not having a minion type.
  • Murloc Tinyfin is the same as Wisp apart from having a minion type added.
  • The standard CCG/MTG definition of strictly better.

None of them. What I disagree is the conclusion you're drawing from those premises. In Hearthstone, being a Dr. Boom is considered beneficial, compared to being a Wisp, but that doesn't mean Dr. Boom is strictly better than Wisp either. Therefore, point #1 is irrelevant to this discussion. Being a Murloc has advantages over not being a Murloc, but it also has disadvantages, namely Hungry Crab, which is why it is not strictly better.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2015, 08:03:05 pm »
0

Why is that relevant? What I claimed is still true: in Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered a beneficial effect. That's why cards like Puddlestomper (3/2 murloc) and Bloodfen Raptor (3/2 beast) can coexist as neutrals alongside cards like Knife Juggler (3/2 with triggered upside) and Wild Pyromancer (3/2 with triggered upside).

It is pretty relevant. Either "strictly better" means "strictly better in isolation" or "strictly better with all the other cards". You can't cherry pick which cards, otherwise every card is strictly better than every card.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Tell me which of these you disagree with:
  • In Hearthstone, having a minion type is considered beneficial, compared to not having a minion type.
  • Murloc Tinyfin is the same as Wisp apart from having a minion type added.
  • The standard CCG/MTG definition of strictly better.

None of them. What I disagree is the conclusion you're drawing from those premises. In Hearthstone, being a Dr. Boom is considered beneficial, compared to being a Wisp, but that doesn't mean Dr. Boom is strictly better than Wisp either. Therefore, point #1 is irrelevant to this discussion. Being a Murloc has advantages over not being a Murloc, but it also has disadvantages, namely Hungry Crab, which is why it is not strictly better.
In other words, you disagree with the standard CCG/MTG definition of strictly better, which I linked earlier.
Quote
because of the sheer number of possible gameplay circumstances, for any given "strictly better" card, there is typically some imaginable set of circumstances in which it is, in fact, inferior to another card that would otherwise rank below it. ... However, "strictly better" is well understood among experienced Magic players, and is the prevailing description of such a relationship between cards.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2015, 09:14:45 pm »
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In other words, you disagree with the standard CCG/MTG definition of strictly better, which I linked earlier.
Quote
because of the sheer number of possible gameplay circumstances, for any given "strictly better" card, there is typically some imaginable set of circumstances in which it is, in fact, inferior to another card that would otherwise rank below it. ... However, "strictly better" is well understood among experienced Magic players, and is the prevailing description of such a relationship between cards.

Yes, that's why Dr. Boom is strictly better than War Golem even though sometimes the boom bots might do something undesirable. Having a minion type for which blatant hate tech cards exist is not "some imaginable set of circumstances".

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2015, 09:21:29 pm »
+1

In other words, you disagree with the standard CCG/MTG definition of strictly better, which I linked earlier.
Quote
because of the sheer number of possible gameplay circumstances, for any given "strictly better" card, there is typically some imaginable set of circumstances in which it is, in fact, inferior to another card that would otherwise rank below it. ... However, "strictly better" is well understood among experienced Magic players, and is the prevailing description of such a relationship between cards.

Yes, that's why Dr. Boom is strictly better than War Golem even though sometimes the boom bots might do something undesirable. Having a minion type for which blatant hate tech cards exist is not "some imaginable set of circumstances".
There is no reason to treat a specifically designed tech card differently from other cards that might make the characteristic undesirable.

I could call Mind Control a strictly better foil-er for Ice Rager and Thoughtsteal a strictly better foil-er for Heckler so if you let a single card erode "strictly better", then the term loses any and all value it had because there isn't a single card it can be applied to.  Thus, a definition that excludes specific, deliberate counters is more useful.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2015, 09:28:42 pm »
0

There is no reason to treat a specifically designed tech card differently from other cards that might make the characteristic undesirable.

I could call Mind Control a strictly better foil-er for Ice Rager and Thoughtsteal a strictly better foil-er for Heckler so if you let a single card erode "strictly better", then the term loses any and all value it had because there isn't a single card it can be applied to.  Thus, a definition that excludes specific, deliberate counters is more useful.

Mind Control and Thoughtsteal universally apply to all cards, and better cards are still better cards even though they are also better targets for MC and Thoughtsteal.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2015, 10:31:42 pm »
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There is no reason to treat a specifically designed tech card differently from other cards that might make the characteristic undesirable.

I could call Mind Control a strictly better foil-er for Ice Rager and Thoughtsteal a strictly better foil-er for Heckler so if you let a single card erode "strictly better", then the term loses any and all value it had because there isn't a single card it can be applied to.  Thus, a definition that excludes specific, deliberate counters is more useful.

Mind Control and Thoughtsteal universally apply to all cards, and better cards are still better cards even though they are also better targets for MC and Thoughtsteal.
They don't universally apply to all cards.  Prophet Velen is less strictly better than War Golem due to Mind Control, but Dr. Boom isn't.

Just because Blizz wrote "lol, Murlocs" on the card doesn't mean you should look at the mechanics of what's happening differently.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2015, 11:05:56 pm »
0

They don't universally apply to all cards.  Prophet Velen is less strictly better than War Golem due to Mind Control, but Dr. Boom isn't.

Just because Blizz wrote "lol, Murlocs" on the card doesn't mean you should look at the mechanics of what's happening differently.

Dr. Boom is still less strictly better than War Golem due to Thoughtsteal.

There is no reason to treat a specifically designed tech card differently from a specifically designed synergy.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2015, 11:21:05 pm »
0

They don't universally apply to all cards.  Prophet Velen is less strictly better than War Golem due to Mind Control, but Dr. Boom isn't.

Just because Blizz wrote "lol, Murlocs" on the card doesn't mean you should look at the mechanics of what's happening differently.

Dr. Boom is still less strictly better than War Golem due to Thoughtsteal.
Not if you use Brawl.

You can object to a definition that cares about specific combos with specific others cards like Murloc, that's okay.  But you do have to relax your constraints somehow to make the term useful.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2015, 03:58:48 am »
+3

Looking over the cards another time... I think this is the most well designed expansion since Classic.

Maybe Blizzard is actually improving.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2015, 08:09:11 am »
0

Looking over the cards another time... I think this is the most well designed expansion since Classic.

Maybe Blizzard is actually improving.

Yeah, it has a mixture of stable cards, unique effects, syerngy cards, and a few wonky effects.

I think it would have been really cool if this expansion came out right after Classic. I expect it to be difficult for a lot of the discover-a-minion cards to find a place in a meta full of powerful aggro decks.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2015, 09:51:18 am »
0

Looking over the cards another time... I think this is the most well designed expansion since Classic.

Maybe Blizzard is actually improving.

Yeah, it has a mixture of stable cards, unique effects, syerngy cards, and a few wonky effects.

I think it would have been really cool if this expansion came out right after Classic. I expect it to be difficult for a lot of the discover-a-minion cards to find a place in a meta full of powerful aggro decks.

I think they are valuing Discover more than it is worth, but not as badly as they did Inspire. Still, there's a lot of good arena cards, and a few of the discover cards might be testes out.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2015, 12:44:20 pm »
0

Looking over the cards another time... I think this is the most well designed expansion since Classic.

Maybe Blizzard is actually improving.

Yeah, it has a mixture of stable cards, unique effects, syerngy cards, and a few wonky effects.

I think it would have been really cool if this expansion came out right after Classic. I expect it to be difficult for a lot of the discover-a-minion cards to find a place in a meta full of powerful aggro decks.

Ben Brode has hinted to a digital solution similar to rotating formats to address power creep at blizzcon.  They are "not far from making an announcement" about it
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2015, 02:47:53 pm »
0

If anyone hasn't noticed yet, the deck that loves the Murlington explorer guy the most, by far, is Aggro Warrior
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2015, 02:55:56 pm »
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If anyone hasn't noticed yet, the deck that loves the Murlington explorer guy the most, by far, is Aggro Warrior

Yeah, because any hero power is a better hero power. Still won't make it a thing thougj.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2015, 03:24:42 pm »
0

Surely Murloc Shaman benefits most from Sir Mrrglton?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2015, 03:24:58 pm »
0

If anyone hasn't noticed yet, the deck that loves the Murlington explorer guy the most, by far, is Aggro Warrior

Yeah, because any hero power is a better hero power. Still won't make it a thing thougj.

It's not tier 1, but in that archetype it has to be optimal
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2015, 03:38:59 pm »
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I just want to see if these new cards make Mill Decks viable. Draw-draw-draw Golden Monkey.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2015, 03:39:16 pm »
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Surely Murloc Shaman benefits most from Sir Mrrglton?

It benefits, but not as much as a warrior deck with no hero power. Totems can still do stuff. Taunt, the 1/1, spell dmg. Even in murlocks they aren't useless. Armor up is useless in anything but control warrior really.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2015, 11:53:59 pm »
0

Looking over the cards another time... I think this is the most well designed expansion since Classic.

Maybe Blizzard is actually improving.
I still feel like Naxx holds that place for me, although I could change my mind once LoE is out. Naxx to me felt better-designed than Classic itself. A very high proportion of cards were playable but didn't dominate their mana cost slot, and it made possible new deck archetypes. Many of the cards favored slower decks, too (like Zombie Chow and Sludge Belcher). The only big misstep with Naxx was Undertaker, and they took way too long to fix that, but just looking back at the cards in general, there are so many that made the game a lot better.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2015, 12:20:40 am »
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You like Mad Scientist's design?  You're in a small club there.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2015, 12:23:51 am »
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Mad scientist hasn't bothered me. Maybe because I'm used to it. But it doesn't seem game breakingly good. It's amazing, don't get me wrong, but otherwise so many decks just wouldn't be playable without it.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2015, 12:48:53 am »
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Mad scientist hasn't bothered me. Maybe because I'm used to it. But it doesn't seem game breakingly good. It's amazing, don't get me wrong, but otherwise so many decks just wouldn't be playable without it.

Secret mage feeling viable the 30% of the time you curve into scientist and feeling like garbage the 70% of the time you don't isn't that fun.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2015, 01:25:27 am »
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Mad scientist hasn't bothered me. Maybe because I'm used to it. But it doesn't seem game breakingly good. It's amazing, don't get me wrong, but otherwise so many decks just wouldn't be playable without it.

Secret mage feeling viable the 30% of the time you curve into scientist and feeling like garbage the 70% of the time you don't isn't that fun.

You mean like the flamewaker mage? It wins more than 30% of the time, so I'd argue it's viable on draws that don't include mad scientist.

How would you change it to make it ok?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2015, 01:59:18 am »
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Mad scientist hasn't bothered me. Maybe because I'm used to it. But it doesn't seem game breakingly good. It's amazing, don't get me wrong, but otherwise so many decks just wouldn't be playable without it.

Secret mage feeling viable the 30% of the time you curve into scientist and feeling like garbage the 70% of the time you don't isn't that fun.

You mean like the flamewaker mage? It wins more than 30% of the time, so I'd argue it's viable on draws that don't include mad scientist.

How would you change it to make it ok?

I thought you were reffering to janky secret decks with kirin tor mage, because you referred to some deck that supposedly needs Mad Scientist to exist.  Flamewaker Mage and Hunter don't need scientist to be viable, so I just don't really get what you mean by "otherwise so many decks just wouldn't be playable without it"
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2015, 03:05:19 am »
0

You like Mad Scientist's design?  You're in a small club there.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that I like it, but I don't think it's causing big problems in the game either. Call it a small misstep maybe?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2015, 07:40:35 am »
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I really like Mad Scientist's design, I just think it's too powerful.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2015, 07:45:22 am »
0

I really think with Mysterious Challenger around, complaining about Mad Scientist seems pretty crazy.  Completely different decktypes, of course, but still.  I think for there to only be two mildly OP cards in a set (Naxx, if we can only name undertaker and Mad Scientist), and the rest somewhere in the middle, at least interesting, is still much better than GvG and TGT which have had mostly crap but several pieces of unbelievable OP.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2015, 08:56:00 am »
0

Looking over the cards another time... I think this is the most well designed expansion since Classic.

Maybe Blizzard is actually improving.

Yeah, it has a mixture of stable cards, unique effects, syerngy cards, and a few wonky effects.

I think it would have been really cool if this expansion came out right after Classic. I expect it to be difficult for a lot of the discover-a-minion cards to find a place in a meta full of powerful aggro decks.

Ben Brode has hinted to a digital solution similar to rotating formats to address power creep at blizzcon.  They are "not far from making an announcement" about it
If they do have rotating formats, wouldn't that wreck decks with tribe synergy? Like, a Pirate deck would need to make use of the best pirates from all the expansions to work. I guess it's not a big loss to have those decks only stick in a legacy format. Maybe they belong there.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2015, 09:22:09 am »
0

I really think with Mysterious Challenger around, complaining about Mad Scientist seems pretty crazy.
Well, Challenger is also a problem for the same reason.

The issue with Scientist is that for it to not be ridiculously OP, secrets have to be bad cards, or at least highly situational. After all, you're spending 2 mana and 1 card to get a 2/2 body (1.5 mana worth of tempo, 1 card) and a secret (2 mana for Hunter, 3 mana for Mage; 1 card), so you're +1.5 or +2.5 mana tempo and +1 card above par. This is partially balanced by most secrets being poor cards individually, which both makes Scientist's deathrattle effect weaker than it seems at first glance _and_ more subtly requires you to run bad cards in your deck.

(There are many exceptions where secrets don't quite fit this simplistic mold. Ice Barrier and Ice Block were used in Freeze Mage before Mad Scientist, after all. As another example, Duplicate is a secret that is good in the right deck but you might not want to draw off Scientist's deathrattle.)

Problem is, if you make cards like Mad Scientist and Mysterious Challenger, you've locked yourself into a design where secrets are bad cards that you only put in your deck so that you can hope not to draw them directly and instead put them directly into play via Scientist/Challenger. Every future secret designed has to be sufficiently bad so as to not make Scientist/Challenger more OP, but still good enough that you can justify putting it in your deck at all. That distorts the design of secrets in an ugly way.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2015, 11:43:56 am »
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I think Mad Scientist is well designed. Before it existed people would think you ... mad ... just for running a secret, but once it existed it made lots of secrets viable. Is it strong, yes, maybe a tiny bit too strong, but certainly weaker than other cards. Its creation opened up the use of other cards though, in a time when they were rarely played.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2015, 11:50:55 am »
0

Mad Scientist is definitely in my face hunter deck because it lets me run secrets and pull them early to play 'for free' and doubles as effective card filtering. I love cheating cards out like this in MtG and it's no less satisfying in HS.

The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2015, 11:53:43 am »
0

The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(
Yep, against certain decks I will keep an ironbeak in my opening hand quite often, (assuming I draw it), it's such a hard counter to scientist and will cripple an opening for some decks.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Jorbles

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2015, 12:15:04 pm »
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The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(
Yep, against certain decks I will keep an ironbeak in my opening hand quite often, (assuming I draw it), it's such a hard counter to scientist and will cripple an opening for some decks.

When I see someone do that I always think to myself "Oooo this guy knows what he's doing."
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2015, 12:48:50 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2015, 12:54:11 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2015, 12:55:21 pm »
0

it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2015, 12:57:09 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.

But it isn't in a Face Hunter deck.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2015, 12:57:20 pm »
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I think the Spiders are worth silencing sometimes.

Edit: Or the Eggs.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2015, 12:58:17 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.

Face Hunters don't run it though so you might not even see that.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2015, 02:01:08 pm »
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The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(
Yep, against certain decks I will keep an ironbeak in my opening hand quite often, (assuming I draw it), it's such a hard counter to scientist and will cripple an opening for some decks.

When I see someone do that I always think to myself "Oooo this guy knows what he's doing."
Do you mean this sarcastically?  I assure you it works.
it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
Mad Scientist is strong enough that you don't really expect better than a 1-1 trade.  The point is the tempo lead it gives you.  If you're forcing a tempo mage deck to ping on turn 2 or turn 3, you're at a big advantage, even if you're a card down.
I repeat: AGAINST CERTAIN DECKS.  I'm not saying this is always right, but against an aggressive deck (Hunter in particular), it's usually good, certainly better than risking mulliganing the owl and drawing a no-early-game opening hand.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2015, 02:04:42 pm »
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it's such a hard counter to scientist

It's such a hard counter that it trades exactly 1:1, unless the opponent has a smaller creature or a ping, in which case it's worse than that.
If it wasn't for Highmane it would still be the best thing to silence in the Hunter's deck. The Mad Scientist will almost 2:1 you if it plays a freezing trap.

Belcher is also a pretty good silence target.
Oh and I take issue with this to some extent too.
It obviously depends what deck you're playing, but for my midrange paladin deck for instance I'd much rather use the silence on a Mad Scientist than a Sludge (against midrange/hybrid hunter) most of the time.  I value shutting down aggro and trust that I can outcontrol something as slow as a Sludge.

Situational of course, but for me priority silence targets against midrange/hybrid hunter go (in descending order of priority)
Highmane>MS>Sludge.
There are probably other silence targets I'm missing, but none that I can think of would be higher priority than Sludge to my mind.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2015, 02:07:06 pm »
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Thinking about my games with midrange paladin last month (I finished rk 3 I think, mostly played arena last month), I probably did this 6 or 7 times and won each of those games.  (So maybe 6/7 out of however many games doesn't qualify as 'often', but relatively often might cover it)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2015, 02:38:23 pm »
+1

I think Jorbles is being serious.  It's non-obvious exactly how devastating neutralising a Hunter's Mad Scientist is.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2015, 02:39:20 pm »
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So we agree.  Good times. :)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2015, 02:48:08 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.

Blueblimp pretty well explained why Mad Scientist is a messed up card to have in the game.  The alternative to him was to just make better secrets over time, but he was a quick and dirty and ugly card.  And he makes games swingy as hell, it sucks to draw him after you've drawn all your secrets even when running the correct # of secrets, it sucks to fight someone who played him on curve, just kinda suck sucks.

But yeah Haunted Creeper and Sludge Belcher seem like pretty good cards for the game I won't disagree with that.  I wouldn't disagree that Naxx isn't better than classic, I just excluded Classic earlier because it seems too hard to compare with expansions that don't have a before and after story for people who weren't in alpha.

Any OP cards in the upcoming set (which seems more doubtful than Naxx), is going to at least be OP in a healthier way that can be countered with the right strategies.  The answers aren't going to be "use your kill spell on a 1 drop lol" or "hope your opponent draws the sh#$%ty secrets instead of the power card", they're going to be "build a deck with a strong board presence that can last through Reno's heal" or "keep a Fireball for the monkey and apply pressure", or even, at the worst, "owl the rogue's loot hoarder", which isn't nearly as awful as Naxx's nut cards.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2015, 03:03:28 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.
Yeah I wasn't entirely clear there.  I think I meant to say that Naxx had only 2 actually badly designed cards (MS and Undertaker) that I can think of offhand.  I completely agree with you and with blueblimp about the poor design of both MS and Undertaker.

I just think that GvG and TGT (maybe not BrM, I had forgotten about that, hmm) had MORE badly designed cards than Naxx did.  Anyway.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2015, 03:22:43 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.
Yeah I wasn't entirely clear there.  I think I meant to say that Naxx had only 2 actually badly designed cards (MS and Undertaker) that I can think of offhand.  I completely agree with you and with blueblimp about the poor design of both MS and Undertaker.

I just think that GvG and TGT (maybe not BrM, I had forgotten about that, hmm) had MORE badly designed cards than Naxx did.  Anyway.

Well they also had more cards total.  Are you sure the proportion is worse?

It's also more useful to look at the ratio of cards that actually improved the games to the ones that detrimented it rather than just the card total. TGT would probably be the worst set by that metric, since I can't think of a single TGT card that is seeing active play and I am also glad to see and active play, something like Sludge Belcher, Tinkertown Tech, Flamecannon, Spiderbabies, etc.  Just lolchallenger
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 03:24:53 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2015, 03:25:20 pm »
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I guess not.  Yeah I didn't think it through epically well, you're probably right.

In response to your edit, the only one I can think of is Justicar.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2015, 03:39:19 pm »
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I wish I had a good excuse to use Justicar, but the only deck I'm having any luck piloting is Face Hunter.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2015, 03:39:48 pm »
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Forgotten Torch is a spell with Deathrattle.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2015, 03:40:41 pm »
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I wish I had a good excuse to use Justicar, but the only deck I'm having any luck piloting is Face Hunter.
Midrange Paladin isn't a particularly hard deck to play, but it's not a particularly cheap deck.  Justicar fits pretty nicely.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2015, 03:46:58 pm »
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The only thing that annoys me is I have been playing against people who just silence them :(
Yep, against certain decks I will keep an ironbeak in my opening hand quite often, (assuming I draw it), it's such a hard counter to scientist and will cripple an opening for some decks.

When I see someone do that I always think to myself "Oooo this guy knows what he's doing."
Do you mean this sarcastically?  I assure you it works.

No, I did not mean it sarcastically. Sigh, the internet and tone.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2015, 03:58:34 pm »
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Undertaker was not mildly OP.  The card was disgustingly good.
Yeah I wasn't entirely clear there.  I think I meant to say that Naxx had only 2 actually badly designed cards (MS and Undertaker) that I can think of offhand.  I completely agree with you and with blueblimp about the poor design of both MS and Undertaker.

I just think that GvG and TGT (maybe not BrM, I had forgotten about that, hmm) had MORE badly designed cards than Naxx did.  Anyway.

Well they also had more cards total.  Are you sure the proportion is worse?

It's also more useful to look at the ratio of cards that actually improved the games to the ones that detrimented it rather than just the card total. TGT would probably be the worst set by that metric, since I can't think of a single TGT card that is seeing active play and I am also glad to see and active play, something like Sludge Belcher, Tinkertown Tech, Flamecannon, Spiderbabies, etc.  Just lolchallenger

I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2015, 04:07:05 pm »
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I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust

Kibler is running one right now. I watched him stream it a bit yesterday, it's pretty fun, but doesn't seem particularly strong, also it's hella tricky to play. Lots of places you can make mistakes. Seems to rely on getting Rivendare out with Dreadsteed at some point.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #97 on: November 10, 2015, 05:57:52 pm »
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I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust

Kibler is running one right now. I watched him stream it a bit yesterday, it's pretty fun, but doesn't seem particularly strong, also it's hella tricky to play. Lots of places you can make mistakes. Seems to rely on getting Rivendare out with Dreadsteed at some point.

Or Kel'Thuzad.  If you can keep at least one from being Silenced, you can actually make Anima Golem work.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2015, 06:03:33 pm »
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I wish I had a good excuse to use Justicar, but the only deck I'm having any luck piloting is Face Hunter.
Midrange Paladin isn't a particularly hard deck to play, but it's not a particularly cheap deck.  Justicar fits pretty nicely.
Chairs self identifies as aggro so I'm not sure he would enjoy a deck that plays Zombie Chow
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2015, 06:11:59 pm »
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I want to make a Dreadsteed Warlock, but shit's epic and I don't have any crafting dust

Kibler is running one right now. I watched him stream it a bit yesterday, it's pretty fun, but doesn't seem particularly strong, also it's hella tricky to play. Lots of places you can make mistakes. Seems to rely on getting Rivendare out with Dreadsteed at some point.

Or Kel'Thuzad.  If you can keep at least one from being Silenced, you can actually make Anima Golem work.

His deck didn't run Kel or Anima Golems. It was basically Demonlock with Dreadsteeds and Rivendare. He didn't comment on Animas, but said that he didn't like Kel because it cost too much to cast and there weren't tricky ways to get it out early (like there are with Demons).
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2015, 04:38:13 am »
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I wish I had a good excuse to use Justicar, but the only deck I'm having any luck piloting is Face Hunter.
Midrange Paladin isn't a particularly hard deck to play, but it's not a particularly cheap deck.  Justicar fits pretty nicely.
Chairs self identifies as aggro so I'm not sure he would enjoy a deck that plays Zombie Chow
Sorry, yeah that's clear, Justicar really only fits in Midrange/Control, which was part of my point, buried somewhere deep.  So chairs is unlikely to ever find a use for Justicar while wanting aggro.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2015, 07:39:35 am »
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Is there an detailed info on release time yet?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2015, 11:04:49 am »
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Is there seriously still no official info on this?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2015, 11:37:12 am »
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Is there seriously still no official info on this?

"today"
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2015, 11:54:59 am »
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Or maybe tomorrow, depending on your region.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2015, 12:02:26 pm »
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So midnigt tonight basically.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2015, 04:16:18 pm »
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Just beat normal, first try each.

The final stage is neat.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2015, 05:37:38 pm »
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All three were fun. Love the theme. Love the feel that Blizzard had fun making this.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2015, 07:55:50 pm »
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Everything fairly easy and great fun. Love the third one. Did the heroics on first try too, except the final one. Don't even know where to start building a deck against that.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2015, 08:07:51 pm »
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Everything fairly easy and great fun. Love the third one. Did the heroics on first try too, except the final one. Don't even know where to start building a deck against that.
Funny, with the heroics I got 1 and 3 fairly easily but haven't quite figured out what I'm doing for 2.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2015, 08:12:00 pm »
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What is the point of heroic

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #111 on: November 12, 2015, 08:14:28 pm »
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What is the point of heroic

You get a special card back if you complete all that heroic boss challenges in all the wings.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2015, 08:20:50 pm »
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What is the point of heroic
...it's fun? I mean, why play Hearthstone at all.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #113 on: November 12, 2015, 10:40:44 pm »
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What is the point of heroic
...it's fun? I mean, why play Hearthstone at all.

Arguably it's not fun. Naxx I found fun on heroic. Blackrock mountain I found annoying.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2015, 04:46:20 am »
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Everything fairly easy and great fun. Love the third one. Did the heroics on first try too, except the final one. Don't even know where to start building a deck against that.
Funny, with the heroics I got 1 and 3 fairly easily but haven't quite figured out what I'm doing for 2.
Huh. How did you do 3? I only tried once but the sheer power of the guys that come down seems hard to beat. I can only think maybe a freeze mage type thing could work but I don't really have the cards.

For 2 I just used a super spell heavy priest deck, lots of heal and silence. Silence the rod, and get clerics out sharpish, he never kills them and you eventually divine spirit inner fire them after drawing many many cards.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2015, 04:47:17 am »
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What is the point of heroic
...it's fun? I mean, why play Hearthstone at all.

Arguably it's not fun. Naxx I found fun on heroic. Blackrock mountain I found annoying.
If you're a massive completionist that sort of stuff is always fun. But BrM was, admittedly, nightmarish.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2015, 11:11:31 am »
+1

All three were fun. Love the theme. Love the feel that Blizzard had fun making this.

Im just glad they didn't have Making Fun making it.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2015, 12:41:13 pm »
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I knew I was going to love Reno.

I LOOOVE RENO.

Testing Demon Handlock right now, with -1 Healbot, -1 Coil, +1 Peddler +1 Reno.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2015, 12:50:24 pm »
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I knew I was going to love Reno.

I LOOOVE RENO.

Testing Demon Handlock right now, with -1 Healbot, -1 Coil, +1 Peddler +1 Reno.

How many duplicate cards are you running?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2015, 01:00:46 pm »
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A lot, actually.
Bomb, Molten, Mountain, Voidcaller, sunfury, defender, Drake, Watcher.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #120 on: November 13, 2015, 01:04:42 pm »
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I've made a fairly dupe-light midrange paladin variant with Reno.  No idea if it's good, I've only played about 4 games, won all of them but at no point did I draw any of the cards that had been changed!  Needs more testing.  I'm lying slightly, I did draw Reno once, two turns before he conceded. :P
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #121 on: November 13, 2015, 01:08:33 pm »
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I am 12-4 if HearthTracker isn't lying, so thats something. I did get Reno to activate three times. I lost two of those, tho. :D
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #122 on: November 13, 2015, 03:18:39 pm »
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Huh. How did you do 3? I only tried once but the sheer power of the guys that come down seems hard to beat. I can only think maybe a freeze mage type thing could work but I don't really have the cards.
Forget this, I got it. :)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (0-1, 0%): x - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - None.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #123 on: November 13, 2015, 04:32:42 pm »
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Had an easy time with all 3 heroic.

first guy: Druid with mill elements and general anti-aggro. The Spell Wish is amazing, since so many Druid spells counter his deck, from swipe, starfall, and Tree of life.

second: I used a Priest with lots of silences and some early/mid range minions. Thoughtstealing his 3mana, 6 armor/3cards spell is great. Inner fire is good, and so is divine spirit. He's also not the brightest cookie in the jar. I can see people having a bit of trouble with this guy, but a few tries and you'll beat him just fine.

third: Freeze mage! Doomsayers! 2x BGH! You just have to survive. Faceless is really good too, to copy his Obsidian Destroyers. Mirror Image is a life saver too. I think I even took 10dmg from one of the events and was fine.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #124 on: November 13, 2015, 04:58:53 pm »
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I'm not sure how many duplicates are correct for Reno Handlock.  You definitely want the duplicate Moltens and Voidcallers, and I think you want the duplicate Sunfuries. I'd like to think you can cut a DoA.

I replaced Doomguard with Sense Demons, because it can yank one of your duplicate Voidcallers out of your deck so you can play Reno.

I'm trying Freeze Mage so I can play Forgotten Torch AND Reno and maximize my LoE usage XD
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #125 on: November 13, 2015, 06:14:59 pm »
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Yeah, I remember single Argus lists, probably doable. You can stuck in a Belcher. You can probably swap Darkbomb for a Chow or another removal, but Darkbomb gives you reach. Soulfire maybe? Bane of Doom, Soul Siphon?

Sense demons, heh, interesting choice :D I like my doomguard too much, tho. If it only costed 2 ...


One bird could go too. It's not that often that I am activating Watchers, tho getting to activate watcher (or silence something else earlygame) and still be able to deal with sylvanas (which can screw handlock big time) is great.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:18:49 pm by Grujah »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #126 on: November 13, 2015, 06:39:52 pm »
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Few words on peddler:

Unless non-aggro decks it is usually worse than using Hero Power. It is preferable to Hero Power early vs heavy aggro, as 2/2 can deal with most minions (stupid minibot) and you can usually get a decent 1 drop (there are decent neutrals and quite a few decent warlock ones) or a Mortal Coil or Soulfire. Thing is against aggro, esp hunter, a random 1 drop is going to trade with most of their shit too.
Later it is something to play when you tap and still have mana left.

One notable use is going second. As any warlock player knows, if you start second, you cannot go turn 2 tap, turn 3 tap without burning a card. So you can either not tap and just pass, play a random Watcher/Darkbomb (which makes it impossible for turn 4 Giant) or coin out a Drake.
Now, you can turn 2 tap, turn 3 Peddler, and still be able to play giant turn 4, which is kinda neat.
Or best case scenario, T2 tap, T3 Peddler/Coil. T4 Giant.

Now I make it sound quite good, but as I said, it is often worse than tap, tho all-in-all it ain't the worst.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:45:53 pm by Grujah »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #127 on: November 13, 2015, 06:58:53 pm »
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Yeah, I remember single Argus lists, probably doable. You can stuck in a Belcher. You can probably swap Darkbomb for a Chow or another removal, but Darkbomb gives you reach. Soulfire maybe? Bane of Doom, Soul Siphon?

Sense demons, heh, interesting choice :D I like my doomguard too much, tho. If it only costed 2 ...


One bird could go too. It's not that often that I am activating Watchers, tho getting to activate watcher (or silence something else earlygame) and still be able to deal with sylvanas (which can screw handlock big time) is great.
Overall it sounds like you like to knock your opponent down to zero before super super late game, based on your desire for  double Darkbomb and Doomguard.  I prefer the variants that don't actually end the game until turn 20 or something.  The latter benefits from Reno more, and is more comfortable cutting lots of dupes.  It's possible they both benefit from Reno enough to use him, perhaps. 

If you're doing the version of handlock that gets "early" kills, you definitely want to leave more dupes in so your deck is fast in consistent.  And just played Reno if he happens to be active.  If he's not, it shouldn't be such a big deal, because you can just try to melt face before you die and before you run out of cards.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2015, 07:00:25 pm »
+1

Does anyone know if Reno interacts "correctly" with Beneath the Grounds, Iron Juggernaut, Gang Up, and Forgotten Torch?  Anyone want to test whether he does?

Hell, with Blizzard, I'm not sure I can be confident he interacts correctly with Deathlord :(
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2015, 07:22:26 pm »
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Yeah, I remember single Argus lists, probably doable. You can stuck in a Belcher. You can probably swap Darkbomb for a Chow or another removal, but Darkbomb gives you reach. Soulfire maybe? Bane of Doom, Soul Siphon?

Sense demons, heh, interesting choice :D I like my doomguard too much, tho. If it only costed 2 ...


One bird could go too. It's not that often that I am activating Watchers, tho getting to activate watcher (or silence something else earlygame) and still be able to deal with sylvanas (which can screw handlock big time) is great.
Overall it sounds like you like to knock your opponent down to zero before super super late game, based on your desire for  double Darkbomb and Doomguard.  I prefer the variants that don't actually end the game until turn 20 or something.  The latter benefits from Reno more, and is more comfortable cutting lots of dupes.  It's possible they both benefit from Reno enough to use him, perhaps. 

Yeah, faster style lock does benefit less from Reno. I am still not sure if he is actually worth it.

I am going with Soulfire and Belcher.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 05:31:36 am by Grujah »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #130 on: November 14, 2015, 07:43:14 pm »
+1

So far after testing Reno, Forgotten Torch, and Jeweled Scarab, I have been most impressed with Jewelled Scarab.

Reno is good, and has that whoa wow effect, but in handlock people are already playing around Moltens because they already know about Molten Shields Up and Molten Back From the Junk Heap so they're already playing around your super secret tech.  The archetypes that frequently were forced to go with the "knock him down to 4 and pray he doesn't have moltens or enough support" seem to be less prevalent right now.  Reno might be somewhat viable in that deck, but if he is, he is borderline, not a supplier of a lot more power for the archetype.

Forgotten Torch had the appeal of being the 6th burn spell for an aggressive mechmage that wants to finish the game after losing board control from an aggressive start.  Unfortunately Mechmage is awful right now, the only deck it can beat is maybe Druid.  And Mechmage is forced to do a poor imitation of the opponent and extend into the long game more to adapt to its bad matchups right now, playing Dr. Boom to try to win against Paladin by drawing one of your Doctors while he draws none of his 3 (lol), running Piloted Sky Golem to try to continue going toe to toe with fat late game threats from a dragon priest that's not going to give you an early kill, and running Antonidas for similar reasons.  So running the 5th and 6th burn spells don't help with that.. if anything, it's a wonder Frostbolt can stay in.

Tempomage can't possibly care about the Torch at all.  With Spellslinger and Mechanical Yeti supplying mana outlets to your hand in addition to the draw you are already running, you'll never need to play a card that mana inefficient.

Freezemage might be pretty decent right now, but it probably doesn't need the Torch.  I couldn't seem to play it on my opponent's face before playing Alex because that would be pointless, and I didn't encounter a lot of board states where I could use it as a removal and feel ok about the amount of damage I would be taking that turn.  Nobody plays 4/3's or 3/3's you want to kill.

Scarab's been good to me though.  Since King's Elek was printed in TGT and Flare was rescuscittated in TGT, Midhunter has had plenty of cards in hand a lot of the time, so you'd think Hunter wouldn't need more and Scarab wouldn't be good.  But the proliferation of these ways to draw cards lets Hunter run lots of two drops with impunity right now.  The drawback to spamming 2 drops is supposed to be that you'll run out of cards, but between Webspinner, King's Elekk, and Flare, and Tracking's even available, that's not really a concern.  So if you cram the Scarab into a list that already has lots of 2 drops, you won't have to play him on turn 2 if you draw him early, you'll probably have a 2/3/4 curve already.  So just leave him in your hand.  But if you DO have a troublesome 2/2/4 curve in your hand, you can play him, playing him is almost certainly better than playing a 2 drop on turn 2 and being forced to play a 2 drop turn 3.  The only situation he's gonna be bad is if you draw a 3/4/5 curve, you cut a croc for him, it turned out he was your only turn 2 play, and look you didn't even need help finding a 3 drop.  But that's very unlikely because Hunters can get away with jamming their lists with 2 drops right now as I mentioned.
I still would only run 1.  It is a special effect you only expect to need about once per game.  But I think it's a nifty card.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #131 on: November 16, 2015, 12:21:07 pm »
0

What are people's thoughts on Hats? It's kinda like having an extra hero power that you can use for combos because it's a spell/deathrattler. I've been playing around with it, but haven't done better than 50%ish win rates.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #132 on: November 16, 2015, 12:45:54 pm »
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So I'm definitely going to get through Naxxramas first (so many of those cards are key cards to strategies - Mad Scientist, Baron Rivendare, Voidcaller, Death's Bite - whereas League of Explorers cards so far seem to just be, at best, "neat"), but should I go through Blackrock or League next?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #133 on: November 16, 2015, 01:10:29 pm »
0

I'd get the first wing of BRM and then start LoE. Thaurissian is still a really important card, and Quick Shot is really good. However, unless you want to play Dragon decks, Imp Gang Boss and Flame Waker are the only cards you really want from BRM and they are class specific, so if you play those classes they're worth it, but if you don't I'd just start on LoE after that. Brann looks like he's going to be pretty strong and I suspect there's going to be some cool decks built around some of these cards that have unique effects.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #134 on: November 16, 2015, 03:02:50 pm »
+1

Due to some fabulously undocumented code, class cards are more likely than neutrals off scarab, so Scarab can be considered as much of a class staple as Imp Gang Boss or Flamewaker anyway for Shaman.  At least that's what people are saying.  Shaman's 3 mana spread is really good, Lava Burst, Feral Spirits, Lightning Storm, Unbound Elemental, Lightning Storm, Power Mace, only risk is Far Sight that I can think of.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #135 on: November 16, 2015, 03:40:08 pm »
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I don't disbelieve you, but can you link your source? I'm curious to read how someone found out about that.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #137 on: November 16, 2015, 04:43:34 pm »
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I was jokingly telling someone on the forums that I run scarab for the .000067% chance of getting Huffer or Misha, but now that chance is pretty legit.

The nice thing about Hunter is that almost any 3 drop is right, and while he doesn't have a ton of class 3 drops, he doesn't have any garbage class 3 drops cluttering up the discover (like I'm sure mage does.)
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #138 on: November 16, 2015, 04:45:56 pm »
+1

https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/666359351980920832

Officially confirmed and clarified now.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 04:48:35 pm by Watno »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #139 on: November 16, 2015, 05:17:50 pm »
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Wow, that makes Scarab way better. Strong 3s are available in most classes.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #140 on: November 16, 2015, 05:44:13 pm »
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Wow, that makes Scarab way better. Strong 3s are available in most classes.
I don't know if I should be upset that Midrange paladin can practically tutor Muster for Battle and Aldor Peacekeeper, or be upset the deck is so powerful and tight it doesn't even care.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #141 on: November 16, 2015, 06:13:02 pm »
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Wow, that makes Scarab way better. Strong 3s are available in most classes.
I don't know if I should be upset that Midrange paladin can practically tutor Muster for Battle and Aldor Peacekeeper, or be upset the deck is so powerful and tight it doesn't even care.

I think it's more effective for other classes than Paladin. Minibot and knife juggler are way better, and if you whiff and get an average 3 drop that hurts.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #142 on: November 16, 2015, 07:08:16 pm »
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or be upset the deck is so powerful and tight it doesn't even care.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #143 on: November 17, 2015, 09:10:24 am »
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So, I've switched over to Highlander Warlock with great success. I think I started with 10-0 streak before I started losing a bit, went up quite a few ranks.
Deck is pretty much good cards only Warlock, being able to crush aggro at any time with Reno is great, all other heals keep you well till you can so. You often have to go with what your hand dictates (fortunately tapping helps), so sometimes it gets a bit awkward but is pretty strong overall. Secret Paladin is the worst matchup perhaps.
 Here are a few decklists:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sypy4/hit_legend_with_renolock_the_new_most_op_deck_in/
http://bmkgaming.com/finding-reno-renolock

I play my own mashup: (I do not have gang boss or Demonfire :( ):

Mortal Coil
Power Overwhelming
Abusive Sargent (I seem to have dropped the egg and not this by mistake need to fix that lol)
Zombie Chow
Darkbomb
Dark Peddler
Owl
Sunfury Protector
BGH
Deathlord
Hellfire
Implosion
Shadowflame
Argus
Twilight Drake
Voidcaller
Funnel Cakes
Bane of Doom
Antique Healbot
Doomguard
Belcher
Emperor
Reno jackson
Dr 7
Twisting Nether
Mal'Ganis
Mountain Gaint
Molten Giant

:D

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #144 on: November 17, 2015, 09:59:47 am »
0

If three drops are a problem for you, is Jeweled Scarab worth considering?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #145 on: November 17, 2015, 10:08:35 am »
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Hmm.. I am low on 3s, I'll give it a go. Good thing is that I can always find a cut somewhere. :P
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #146 on: November 17, 2015, 07:46:14 pm »
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Heh, I started fooling around with a Highlander Warlock deck myself. I find Reno's effect to be quite powerful when it goes off. Trouble is you have to draw him if you're relying on his effect, but you can be quite aggressive with the health loss if you do draw him. It's a fun deckstyle to play.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #147 on: November 17, 2015, 09:15:51 pm »
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Yeah, I find in this deck that tapping is probably your strongest weapon - you have a tool for nearly anything you just need to find it in time.

Also, after losing two straight games in a row to my Deathlord summoning a Tirion, I did -1 deathlord +1MCTech.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 09:28:17 pm by Grujah »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #148 on: November 17, 2015, 09:26:24 pm »
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Yeah, I find in this deck that tapping is probably your strongest weapon - you have a tool for nearly anything you just need to find it in time.
Sadly I don't have any Mountain Giants. I gave Sea Giant a go and it seemed alright as a substitute.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #149 on: November 17, 2015, 09:27:29 pm »
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Frost giant would be a fun card to try :P
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #150 on: November 17, 2015, 10:18:12 pm »
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Frost giant would be a fun card to try :P
Ah yeah, but I don't have that one either.

This reminds me, Twilight Drake is going to be quite strong with Bran Bronzebeard. Dragon decks in general benefit quite a bit from him. Imagine a Paladin with double Battlecry on Dragon Consort.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #151 on: November 17, 2015, 11:23:07 pm »
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I don't get the hype for Brann. I can't get over the fact that he's a 3 mana 2/4. He's got to compete with better things you can do with a 3 mana card.

I could see him becoming like Baron Rivendare, who is barely ever run but may be a legit choice in some oddball decks (Dreadsteed Warlock, Reincarnate Shaman).
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #152 on: November 17, 2015, 11:41:14 pm »
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I don't get the hype for Brann. I can't get over the fact that he's a 3 mana 2/4. He's got to compete with better things you can do with a 3 mana card.

I could see him becoming like Baron Rivendare, who is barely ever run but may be a legit choice in some oddball decks (Dreadsteed Warlock, Reincarnate Shaman).
Well he can be sort of used like Hobgoblin to boost a specific style of deck. Sadly you can only run 1 Bran so decks using him need to have something else going for them.

Last I heard, targeted battlecries that are doubled must hit the same target both time. That sucks big time actually. You can't split Aldor Peacekeeper to debuff two enemies or split something like Blackwing Corruptor to hit two enemies. When I started thinking about it, a lot of the really good battlecries don't stack when doubled, or don't stack much at least.

But imagine, 4 Boom Bots.

Edit: oh and doubling Healbot's Battlecry might become a thing.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 11:54:24 pm by markusin »
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #153 on: November 18, 2015, 12:26:04 am »
+1

2/4s are fine.  Frothing Beserker, the artist formerly known as Dalaran Mage, Flamewaker, Harvest Golem when you think about it, all 2/4s with a good enough upside.

Doubling battlecries without being able to retarget them is just not enough upside.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #154 on: November 18, 2015, 03:50:21 am »
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2/4s are fine.  Frothing Beserker, the artist formerly known as Dalaran Mage, Flamewaker, Harvest Golem when you think about it, all 2/4s with a good enough upside.

Doubling battlecries without being able to retarget them is just not enough upside.

Doubling a Healbot is definitely good enough in the kind of deck that needs it. It's basically as good as Healbot as far as stats are concerned, but it costs $2 less.

popsofctown

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #155 on: November 18, 2015, 03:59:28 am »
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2/4s are fine.  Frothing Beserker, the artist formerly known as Dalaran Mage, Flamewaker, Harvest Golem when you think about it, all 2/4s with a good enough upside.

Doubling battlecries without being able to retarget them is just not enough upside.

Doubling a Healbot is definitely good enough in the kind of deck that needs it. It's basically as good as Healbot as far as stats are concerned, but it costs $2 less.

Is this better than Earthen Ring Farseer though?  How many times will you play Antique Healbot into Earthen Ring Farseer and discover that 11 life was not enough, and you needed 16?  Usually what happens is that 8 is not enough if the Antique Healbot replaced a card you needed to draw to regain board control, and gaining even more life is not going to resolve that particular problem. 
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #156 on: November 18, 2015, 12:47:13 pm »
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Been playing around with Highlander Mage, and it's a lot better than I thought it would be, still tweaking it  and am not sure I have the right variety of cards yet. I think when League is fully out there's going to be good decks that use Elise, Bran and Reno to draw through themselves and win when they find the Golden Monkey, thematically that'll be pretty neat.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #157 on: November 18, 2015, 12:49:57 pm »
0

Just figured out that Highlander = "there can only be one"

Booooooooo

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #158 on: November 18, 2015, 12:54:40 pm »
0

Been playing around with Highlander Mage, and it's a lot better than I thought it would be, still tweaking it  and am not sure I have the right variety of cards yet. I think when League is fully out there's going to be good decks that use Elise, Bran and Reno to draw through themselves and win when they find the Golden Monkey, thematically that'll be pretty neat.

It seems Freeze Mage can have success with Reno effectively without going into full Highlander mode:

http://www.pcgamer.com/reno-jackson-might-be-hearthstones-strongest-card-since-emperor-thaurissan/

Tournament play is different from ladder play, but still something to consider.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #159 on: November 18, 2015, 12:55:29 pm »
0

Just figured out that Highlander = "there can only be one"

Booooooooo

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Yeah I didn't get the name immediately.

Is something wrong with that? I never saw the movie.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #160 on: November 18, 2015, 01:02:27 pm »
0

Just figured out that Highlander = "there can only be one"

Booooooooo

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Yeah I didn't get the name immediately.

Is something wrong with that? I never saw the movie.

Puns are always wrong.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #161 on: November 18, 2015, 01:03:31 pm »
+1

Lol, I love it.

Looking at the big list of Brann combos I think that any decks that like to cycle themselves will be good with him. Gnomish/Azure/Coldlight combos in decks will be great with Freeze Mage, Murloc decks, Mill decks. He'll be a big boon to Totem Shaman from the look of it. I also expect that it will be tried out in Control Warrior out as there's lots of little combos you can use him for. It looks like most Dragons work well with him (Azure, Twilight Guardian and Drake, Consort, Wyrmrest, Blackwing Tech and Corruptor, Nefarian, Crusher) which I think means Dragon decks will make room for Brann and might see some shuffling around of the dragons that are used in those types of deck.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #162 on: November 18, 2015, 01:13:15 pm »
0

Just figured out that Highlander = "there can only be one"

Booooooooo

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Yeah I didn't get the name immediately.

Is something wrong with that? I never saw the movie.

Puns are always wrong.
I wouldn't call that a pun. It's more of a direct reference. Puns involve wordplay, which I do not see in the term "Highlander deck".
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #163 on: November 18, 2015, 01:32:04 pm »
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Highlanders have been called highlanders for at least a decade already (probably longer). It's just natural that Hearthstone would also use the term.

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #164 on: November 20, 2015, 06:16:54 am »
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Brand Bronzebeard in Mill Rogue is pretty serious business.  You can store the Coldlight Oracles using Shadowstep and get some pretty insane multidraw turns playing multiple Oracles after dropping him. 
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #165 on: November 20, 2015, 06:46:46 am »
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Is this better than Earthen Ring Farseer though?  How many times will you play Antique Healbot into Earthen Ring Farseer and discover that 11 life was not enough, and you needed 16?  Usually what happens is that 8 is not enough if the Antique Healbot replaced a card you needed to draw to regain board control, and gaining even more life is not going to resolve that particular problem.
To me the the difference is that the Earthen Ring is not a continuing threat.  "I've healed, now I have two vanilla 3/3s, ooh whatcha gonna do?".  Whereas Brann being out is an immediate threat.  It HAS to die next turn, or you risk just instalosing the game.  That's a fairly big effect.  Lots of these cards with ongoing effects are like that; what makes them good is not just the one use you get out of them on the turn you play them, but rather the fact that leaving them alive is a catastrophe for the opponent, so their priorities get all messed up.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #166 on: November 21, 2015, 11:50:23 am »
0

I'm liking the Discover mechanic. You don't need to build a deck around it. You can just include a Discover card whenever you want more versatility in your deck.

I want to play around with a Midrange Hunter deck with Scarab(Discover a 3-cost card) and Tomb Spider(Discover a Beast). The other day I was up against a Handlock where I got a Powershot from Scarab that helped destroy Double-Molten Argus when I needed to and a King Crush from Tomb Spider.

Edit: I also tried Dragon Paladin with Bran Bronzebeard. The Bran into Consort + Twilight Drake/Guardian is fun times. Bran also makes Blackwing Technician a bit more desirable.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 11:59:25 am by markusin »
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Jorbles

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #167 on: November 21, 2015, 01:13:33 pm »
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Edit: I also tried Dragon Paladin with Bran Bronzebeard. The Bran into Consort + Twilight Drake/Guardian is fun times. Bran also makes Blackwing Technician a bit more desirable.

How does this interaction work? Does he make the next Dragon cost 10 less or does he make the next two Dragons cost 5 less?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #168 on: November 21, 2015, 01:34:46 pm »
0

Edit: I also tried Dragon Paladin with Bran Bronzebeard. The Bran into Consort + Twilight Drake/Guardian is fun times. Bran also makes Blackwing Technician a bit more desirable.

How does this interaction work? Does he make the next Dragon cost 10 less or does he make the next two Dragons cost 5 less?

Consort only makes Dragons cost 2 less, but anyway Bran Bronzebeard + Consort makes the next Dragon cost 4 less.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #169 on: November 22, 2015, 11:14:47 am »
0

I was playing against Heroic Archaedes and at some point Archaedes played Astral Communion that he drew from Spellslinger. That made the battle an easy win.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #170 on: November 22, 2015, 08:47:32 pm »
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Brann is pretty decent in Highlander Warlock. Works with Ancient Healbot, Dr Boom, Twilight Drake, Argus, Peddler, Farseer, - I even managed to steal 2 minions with MC Tech!

Current list:
http://s22.postimg.org/t0vjq1szl/Hearthstone_Screenshot_11_22_15_20_50_40.png

Stucked Brann in instead of Harrison.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #171 on: November 23, 2015, 08:21:51 pm »
+1

Why can't Blizzard make card texts that match the effects of the cards?
Unearthed Raptor says: "Choose a friendly minion. Gain a copy of it's Deathrattle effect." Why can't I target a minion without Deathrattle to avoid copying the Zombie Chow heal?
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #172 on: November 23, 2015, 08:53:18 pm »
0

Why can't Blizzard make card texts that match the effects of the cards?
Unearthed Raptor says: "Choose a friendly minion. Gain a copy of it's Deathrattle effect." Why can't I target a minion without Deathrattle to avoid copying the Zombie Chow heal?

They want to avoid those pesky misclicks I guess, even if that means defying card text that would make the card better.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #173 on: November 23, 2015, 08:58:51 pm »
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I FUCKING LOVE ETHEREAL CONJURER

ITS'S EVERYTHING SPELLSLINGER SHOULD HAVE BEEN
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #174 on: December 11, 2015, 09:19:00 am »
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I'm done with the adventure now. I think the Heroics were easier than last time, but I think the adventure had a lot of interesting fights. I liked it a lot.
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #175 on: December 11, 2015, 09:36:05 am »
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I'm done with the adventure now. I think the Heroics were easier than last time, but I think the adventure had a lot of interesting fights. I liked it a lot.

The Heroic Hero Power of Skelesaurus was ridiculously OP...except when it played Majordomo after I got King Crush from Mirror Entity (with Ice Block giving me enough stalling time).

I really liked the last boss.

That's another complete set of Heroic challenges done for me as well. Nice adventure overall.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #176 on: December 11, 2015, 09:46:15 am »
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I want to play around with a Midrange Hunter deck with Scarab(Discover a 3-cost card) and Tomb Spider(Discover a Beast). The other day I was up against a Handlock where I got a Powershot from Scarab that helped destroy Double-Molten Argus when I needed to and a King Crush from Tomb Spider.

I've pretty much done that for the past 3 weeks. I created a Beast-themed Hunter deck and included more and more Explorers cards as they came out. Now it uses all 4 of the Explorer heroes and is like a highlander midrange-control-ish combo deck that wants to mulligan for Mrrglton, Reno and Elise. The deck is flexible but inconsistent and doesn't fare too well on ladder. It shuts out some control decks, you win against face hunter if you're very lucky and it almost always loses to Warlock, Shaman and Paladin. That makes me a bit sad but I can't stop playing it because it's so GODDAMN FUN!

Below is my deck list. If you just want to have a fun time with the new cards I can highly recommend a deck like this one.

Quote
1 Hunter's Mark
1 Sir Finley Mrrgglton
1 Tracking
1 Webspinner
1 Explorer's Hat
1 Glaivezooka
1 Haunted Creeper
1 Ironbeak Owl
1 Jeweled Scarab
1 King's Elekk
1 Quick Shot
1 Animal Companion
1 Brann Bronzebeard
1 Deadly Shot
1 Kill Command
1 Powershot
1 Unleash the Hounds
1 Baron Rivendare
1 Elise Starseeker
1 Houndmaster
1 Piloted Shredder
1 Tomb Spider
1 Antique Healbot
1 Loatheb
1 Sludge Belcher
1 Emperor Thaurissan
1 Reno Jackson
1 Savannah Highmane
1 Dr. Boom
1 King Krush
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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #177 on: December 11, 2015, 10:18:49 am »
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The thing with Hunter is that it has very poor draw-from-deck capabilities. The best you can get is with the situational Cult Master or post-nerf Starving Buzzard. Midrange Hunter does have a way to get a bunch of "stuff" in hand though. Webspinner, Jeweled Scarab, Tomb Spider, and possibly Ball of Spiders if you're feeling bold (but putting on the pressure with Highmane is probably better).

Because Hunter is not so great at the control game, I feel like they need to make their tempo plays early then push for lethal with midrange threats like Highmane and Dr. Boom. I tried adding Sir Finley only to realize I don't actually want to give up the Hunter hero power as a midrange beast deck.

Cards like Reno and Elise are bound to be disappointing in Hunter due to the lack of deck draw. Brann can be pretty good though. Double up on Discover, Houndmaster, and Ram Wrangler.

Playing Beast Hunter makes you realize how helpful Acidmaw can be so long as you don't actually include Acidmaw in your deck. Another example of how the mere existence of a card has an effect on Hearthstone.
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Grujah

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #178 on: December 11, 2015, 08:51:19 pm »
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@cookielord - No Dreadscale? Blashphemy!
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: League of Explorers Discussion
« Reply #179 on: December 12, 2015, 10:36:18 pm »
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I think you`re right. I should probably just play Beast Hunter with Brann (and maybe Rivendare?) but without the other Explorers. I don't have Dreadscale or Acidmaw, sadly.
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Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
More, non-coherent cards I made
Flash cards - trying out a new concept
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