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Author Topic: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?  (Read 1576 times)

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Infthitbox

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Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« on: November 05, 2015, 01:29:25 pm »
+4

Played this game yesterday. Kingdom:



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Loan, Steward, Bureaucrat, Death Cart, Pirate Ship, Butcher, Junk Dealer, Merchant Guild, Minion, Farmland
http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20151104/log.0.1446681362855.txt

I open silver/steward and then hit 2C3E on turn 3. Turn 4 I have SCCCC. I'm reasonably sure that buying a gold here is bad, and that I should have bought a Junk Dealer.

Turns 5&7, I again decline to buy Junk Dealer, and instead buy Minion. It occurs to me now that if my plan was to buy a ton of Minions, I should have bought one on turn 4 as well. Anyway, I'm reasonably sure on turn 8 I throw the game for sure: With 6 coins and an estate, I buy a Farmland to ditch my estate, but I have to gain a 4: which I don't want. I choose Death Cart, and proceed to lose the game pretty handily.

So my question here is which mistake cost my chances of winning this game more: the turn 4 Gold, or the turn 8 nonsense given the turn 4 mistake?

Also, my opponent here is apparently a stronger player than the average opponent in MF random match, lol.
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Chris is me

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Re: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2015, 01:38:03 pm »
0

Even going for Minion, I think Junk Dealer on Turn 4 would have been probably the best move. It's still early enough that you could benefit from more trashing, especially non terminal trashing, and thinner decks can buy Minions faster. But I don't think buying Gold was like a mistake that cost you the game or anything, I mean it's not a huge misstep and at least you can use it to pick up Minion, then later Farmland it.

The turn 8 fuckup is what did you in. Don't buy Farmland without thinking! You just undid 1-2 turns of trashing! You should have trashed an Estate and Copper with Steward. You really want to trash with Steward as often as you can, just using the other abilities occasionally or when you're out of junk to clear.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 01:40:31 pm by Chris is me »
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luser

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Re: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2015, 02:29:17 pm »
+1

Here steward missing shuffle hurt most. You were already behind. As previously said farmland death card on turn 6 is terrible. You don't want to buy farmland as its gimpled silver that could only buy province over 5 cards most of time.

Also I would buy butcher after first junk dealer for endgame control and possibly butcher silver into minion.
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Dingan

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Re: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2015, 02:56:08 pm »
+2

No doubt your first shuffle was unlucky.  I always hate not colliding my Stewards or Remakes with Estates early.  That being said, I agree with the other posters that you want 1 JD.  I don't think you want 2.  I only see 4 relavent Kingdom cards here: Minion, Steward, Butcher, and Junk Dealer.  I think you want 1 of each of those, except Minion -- obviously you want as many of those as possible.

Butcher is great here late game to turn things into Duchies (or even Provinces), which can win you the split.  You could double-green with Merchant Guild (or Ruined Market, I guess), but I don't think that's nearly as reliable as Butcher.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 03:00:20 pm by Dingan »
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Dingan

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Re: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2015, 03:00:51 pm »
0

NButcher is great here late game to turn things into Duchies (or even Provinces), which can win you the split.  There is no other way to double-green (other than Ruined Market).

Merchant Guild has +buy.
Realized that, EDITed my post
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Infthitbox

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Re: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2015, 03:09:31 pm »
0

Yeah, I mean, I knew as soon as it happened that the Farmland play was terrible, and that I had virtually no shot after that. I was curious as to whether the game was lost before that, but I guess buying the gold, while non-optimal, wasn't necessarily going to lose me the game.
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theJester

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Re: Which mistake (turn 4 or turn 8) hurt me the most?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2015, 08:51:10 am »
+2

Both were significant mistakes, IMO, although turn 8 one is much bigger.

Minion is one of these powerful cards which, when you see it on the board, must immediately ask yourself: Can I build a strategy around it or not?. And here the answer in obvious yes. So, open with Steward, buy one Junk Dealer and then start massing Minions. Since there are no villages, your goal should be to play as many Minions as possible (compounded by non-terminal JD trashing) and one terminal. Which terminal it is - I'm less sure: maybe Butcher and maybe Merchant's Guild.

In light of such approach, buying T4 Gold is a waste of time. You don't need Gold - your money will come from Minions. And turn 8 is, as noted, a major mistake: you replaced one junk card (Estate) with three (Farmland and 2 Ruins), effectively undoing your important trashing from previous turns.

As to whether your game was lost before T8 - possibly it was, as a combinations of unlucky Steward missing the Estates and T4 Gold (trashing here is optimal, and if you had to buy something - buy JD rather than Gold). Your opponent certainly has a significant advantage, and you'd have to rely on him erring or having bad shuffle luck in order to win this game.
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