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[Sindean]

For the sake of full disclosure I've been playing dominion about 3 weeks and I've played roughly 10 games in real life (mostly intrigue only) and roughly 36 online games so I'm pretty new.  In general I think I have a reasonable grasp on the game, but I didn't see this spanking coming yesterday and I was wondering if you guys might be able to give me some insight.

The game log can be found here: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120111-155001-8889249c.html.

The first thing I was attracted to was the bridge, the only real drawing was the Inn so I set that as my basic strategy.  I didn't see the apprentice as a super attractive card and I'm very confused/torn about when Hoard is worth it  (clearly I was wrong on apprentice).  By turn 16 the game was over and I was trying my best to just keep up in points which made my hand even worse (and caused the score to be more spread than it should have been).

Any thoughts would be great!

Thanks!

Sindean

[DStu]

Welcome.

First, Inn is no real drawing. After you played Inn (out of a 5 card hand), you have a 4 card hand. So if you rely on large handsizes, it doesn't help you anything. Inn gives you the actions, and filters your deck, which helps to draw all the actions you can use, but you didn't have so many actions, and if you say discard a Copper and an Estate and draw a Copper and a Silver, than it's basically +2$ (you don't need the actions, and you're treasure increses by $2), which is not much for a $5-card.

Apprentice, on the other hand, is often really good. You can hopefully trash Estates for 2 cards in the beginning, other Apprentices for +5cards, Gold and Provinces for lots of cards. Especially if you can profit from this large handsizes (e.g. by +buy to buy many cards) this is really good and excelarates the game. Usually you want some "cheap" way to get cards to feed the Apprentice with. Because if you trash a say Gold for a good hand, and you just can buy a Province, somewhen soon this will stall. If you have a +buy to buy this Gold again, this will last longer. But even better here, and that's where the Apprentice gets real good:
Hoard usually already is not bad on its own. I think one can always consider to go a money-based strategy with Hoard, but large handsizes (say BM-Smithy) really help. Large handsizes lead to doubleHoard turns, where you pay $8 for a Province and two Golds. In combination with Apprentices here, the Gold then can feed the Apprentices for large handsizes, and you again gain a Province and two Golds. Also you can buy Duchies in the beginning with Hoard in play without much regret, in order to trash them later with Apprentice and keep the Gold. Additionally:
Bridges are better in masses, cards get cheaper, you can afford more of them, the Bridge gives the +buy. In the next turn, some of these once cheap cards can feed the Apprentice, to again draw large handsizes. But you need the Inns, too, and it depends a little bit on the speed of the opponent if I would also go for them or just try to quickly win with Apprentice/Hoard.

Familiar on the other hand seems like a trap against Lighthouses, especially in a deck that can be so fast that 2 Lighthouses essentially guarantee that you can't get hit by it.

[rinkworks]

Chiming in to voice my support of the Apprentice/Hoard combo.  With both of these in your deck, you can even afford to buy Estates early, because you can use the free Golds to buy Provinces later, and in the meantime you can feed the Estates to the Apprentices to draw even more money.  And obviously Duchy+Gold is even better than Estate+Gold.

Generally, Hoard is a great combo with any kind of trash-for-benefit (besides Apprentice, Bishop and Salvager work well) for this reason:  you can pick up Golds and fuel at the same time.

DStu is right that Bridges are better in masses, but I think on this board, a mass of Bridges (and the Inns you'd need to play them) would only get in the way of an Apprentice/Hoard rush.  So I'd probably pick up a single Bridge for the +Buy -- since Apprentice/Hoard will want it -- and keep an option open on a second in the mid-late game.  Probably, though, one will be sufficient, since your Apprentices will be drawing a lot and increasing the chances that two Bridges will collide.

[DsnowMan]

Inn is a lame warehouse. It's good for setting up big turns, maybe a bridge + inn megaturn is out there somewhere, but you shouldn't be buying inns early in the game. It's not a great +card.

Your potion buy is too late, if you want to try to get familiars, it should be early. AND your opponent already had a lighthouse, and the buys to get more. Either best to avoid familiars on this board, or try to hit them early and often.

Finally, Apprentice is good. Apprentice + Hoard = awesome. (echoing previous posters): Feed it the estates/duchies you buy, 1 bridge for buy, and off you go.

[Anon79]

Not an easy board. It's clear that Apprentice will play a part somewhere, but it's not obvious where.

The run-down is this: Hoard + Apprentice is awesome. Hoard + Bridge is good. Hoard + Apprentice + Bridge is probably still better. Inn + Bridge sucks as Inn doesn't draw. Inn + Apprentice + Bridge might work. Inn + Apprentice + Bridge + tactical CHANCELLOR can guarantee a megaturn. The issue is, can you really set up a Inn + Apprentice + Bridge + 1 Chancellor + Hoard megaturn? (With Hoard it won't be a mega-megaturn, more of a mini-megaturn where you trigger just when you have enough to buy out to guarantee a win, either by 3-piling or buying more than half of the remaining VPs available. Keep in mind both players may have been feeding VPs to Apprentice.)

It's difficult to say, since the timing of buying Inns (and what to shuffle in) is very tactical. If you're somewhat new to Dominion, I would advocate the "simpler" Hoard + Apprentice + Bridge (get only 1 or 2 Bridges, no more) combo. I say "simpler", but it's still not simple - how many Apprentices, how many Hoards, when to trash what, buy Duchy or two Estates......

[Robz888]

Familiar is essentially the most deadly Attack in the game, and if you want it, you want it immediately. This might be a situation where you don't want it, because Lighthouse is a decent defense and detouring for Familiar will delay you from getting Hoard/Apprentice, which is definitely the right move here. And a dedicated Apprentice buyer will be able to kill off many of the curses, anyway.

So ignoring Familiar, I agree with the Bridge/Hoard/Apprentice strategy that other people mentioned.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Okay, here is a solitaire game featuring the Hoard/Apprentice combo.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/12/game-20120112-230204-c754fe57.html

[Sindean]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback.  I guess I didn't see the strategic trashing of apprentice as being a powerhouse, but boy does that gamelog from Mr. Mustard prove otherwise.

Mean Mr. Mustard: It seems others are recommending Bridge is this set, but you took Chancellor.  In your opinion is the Chancellor superior in this kingdom?  It's hard for me to gauge how useful the +$2 and "shuffle in" is vs the +1 dollar +1 buy of the bridge.

Thanks again all, I've learned alot from this discussion!

Sindean

[Anon79]

Because Mean Mr Mustard's a contrarian, that's why. Here's Bridge instead of Chancellor:

Opening 5/2 : http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/13/game-20120113-062135-6df767a8.html
Opening 4/3 : http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/13/game-20120113-062634-7d931505.html

The subtle differences between Chancellor and Bridge: Chancellor has the potential to bring you a full turn earlier, if you draw Chancellor + 3 coppers on Turn 3 (immediate reshuffle for Apprentice). Bridge's +buy has more mid-game and late-game potential, where you can do things like buy Apprentice + Lighthouse, Apprentice + Silver, Hoard + Lighthouse, or even Province + Duchy. I would say that Chancellor has the opportunity to be slightly faster, but Bridge explodes bigger and has slightly more control towards the end.

(If you try this solitaire a few times, note how screwed you get if you don't pick up Apprentice on your first reshuffle.)