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Author Topic: Tithe  (Read 1854 times)

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Gibbar

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Tithe
« on: November 04, 2015, 08:40:51 am »
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I would be interested in your thoughts on the card below:

Tithe $6
Action - Attack

+1 Card
Each player (including you) with five or more cards in hand must discard a card that is not a victory card or a curse (or reveal a hand comprised entirely of victory cards and curses). You may gain a card up to the combined value of all discarded cards. If you gain a victory card, trash this.



« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 08:42:30 am by Gibbar »
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Ampharos

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Re: Tithe
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2015, 08:50:20 am »
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It seems like it would be tough to get this to be worth the 6 it costs.  You can't count on the opponent discarding anything good unless there's strong trashing (a copper does nothing for you and hurts them very little), which means it's up to you to supply the discard power.  Outside of peddlers, you're usually going to have to be discarding something like a gold or a 5 in order to make the gain part of this work.  That makes the rest of your turn much weaker.  Even if you're drawing your whole deck (or a lot of it), that gold is still valuable to have (unless you can pick it up again). 

If your opponent has done significant trashing and gotten rid of coppers, this might really shine.  However, the trashing of it when you gain a green is a big downside, making it only worthwhile to gain province or colony with it, and since you're losing it when used, a gold might be more appealing.  If this was put at 5 cost, it might be more viable, but I have a feeling it would be a card you'd only want to pick up in certain instances and wouldn't crack the top tier of 5s.

Also, with more players it gets stronger, but you still can't count on your opponents doing too much other than copper discarding unless you get lucky, so it's kind of a fancy cutpurse that doesn't give you the +2. 

tl;dr:  interesting card idea, maybe priced a little high and not always useful for each game.  The trashing part is a big blow and you might consider leaving that out all together.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Tithe
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2015, 09:47:25 am »
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Minor wording note: See rats, you don't need "comprised of". Just "or reveal a hand of all victory and curse cards".

I would drop the Curse part, it would make the wording cleaner and shorter. Of course it would make it technically weaker, but it will be the same the vast majority of the time anyway. Your opponents aren't likely to have a Curse in their hand. And in Cursing games, this just becomes not quite as good of an attack; that's ok, it's a Cursing game, we don't need more attacks that stack with the Curses.

As Ampharos says, this feels a lot like Cutpurse. The +1 card is a little awkward, the only +1 card terminal in the game is Ruined Library. + would probably be stronger in most situations. I'm not actually sure this would be stronger than Cutpurse most of the time. Not a anyway.
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Limetime

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Re: Tithe
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2015, 09:55:42 am »
+1

I would be interested in your thoughts on the card below:

Tithe $6
Action - Attack

+1 Card
Each player (including you) with five or more cards in hand must discard a card that is not a victory card or a curse (or reveal a hand comprised entirely of victory cards and curses). You may gain a card up to the combined value of all discarded cards. If you gain a victory card, trash this.
I think it should force discard cards costing more than instead of not discarding victory/curse cards
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GendoIkari

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Re: Tithe
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2015, 10:00:18 am »
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I would be interested in your thoughts on the card below:

Tithe $6
Action - Attack

+1 Card
Each player (including you) with five or more cards in hand must discard a card that is not a victory card or a curse (or reveal a hand comprised entirely of victory cards and curses). You may gain a card up to the combined value of all discarded cards. If you gain a victory card, trash this.
I think it should force discard cards costing more than instead of not discarding victory/curse cards

That seems like it would be too strong. But forcing or more could be a great idea.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Tithe
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2015, 01:41:38 pm »
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I suggest you should get +2 Cards instead of +1 Card so you can actually discard a card to Tithe after your opponent played one without any support.
The discarded cards should have to cost or more as suggested and you should keep the self trashing after you gained a victory card similar to HoP to balance the card.

Quote
Tithe $6
Action - Attack

+2 Cards
Each player (including you) with five or more cards in hand discards a card costing or more (or reveals a hand with no such cards). You may gain a card costing up to the combined cost of all discarded cards. If you gained a victory card, trash this.

If that is to strong, you could use the Dark Ages costing -:
Quote
Tithe $6
Action - Attack

+2 Cards
Each player (including you) with five or more cards in hand discards a card costing to (or reveals a hand with no such cards). You may gain a card costing up to the combined cost of all discarded cards. If you gained a victory card, trash this.

That way, you could not repeatedly discard Provinces to gain Provinces, you can only get one with your opponent's help (or with cost reduction).

Or you could just exclude victory cards from the gainable cards:

Quote
Tithe $6
Action - Attack

+2 Cards
Each player (including you) with five or more cards in hand discards a card costing or more (or reveals a hand with no such cards). You may gain a card costing up to the combined cost of all discarded cards that is not a victory card. If you gained a victory card, kill yourself.
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Gibbar

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Re: Tithe
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2015, 02:41:36 pm »
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Thank you all for your suggestions. I like the '$2 or more' approach and agree that it should have +2 cards (after all, it is a pricey $6 cost card). For dramatic effect, the discarding should happen simultaneously.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Tithe
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2015, 03:05:46 pm »
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Thank you all for your suggestions. I like the '$2 or more' approach and agree that it should have +2 cards (after all, it is a pricey $6 cost card). For dramatic effect, the discarding should happen simultaneously.

I agree that discarding simultaneously; it's just just for effect, it will make it so that the last player to discard doesn't have more information on which to base things that the first player. However, the wording for that becomes tricky, because by default things happen in player order. You can use:

Each player sets aside a card costing or more from his hand face down (or reveals a hand of no such cards). Then each player discards the card he set aside this way.
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