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Author Topic: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion  (Read 9014 times)

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Beyond Awesome

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Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« on: November 02, 2015, 08:28:22 am »
+1

A big issue a lot of casual players are complaining about are slow players and the need for a kick out timer. Personally, I rarely encounter slow playing at higher ratings. It happens sometimes, but rarely.

Anyway, I have a feeling with all the complaints MF gets about this issue that this is something that they will do something about. My worry is that they may end up doing something where players don't have enough time to think things through and play properly.

For example, on their forum, the players were asking for the timer to allow games to only be 10 minutes and no more than that, feeling as this that is an acceptable amount of time. My guess is they only play with base, or they don't really think much while playing and just buy the first thing they see. Years ago, I was at that stage once, so I understand why they feel 10 minutes is enough. But, I know for those of us on the forums, there are plenty of games where we need more than 10 minutes to play.

So, anyway, what are your thoughts? How would you like to see MF implement this feature?
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yuma

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2015, 08:39:54 am »
+2

Probably a slider where you can state a preference for how long you wish the game you are signing up to play to last from "5 minutes" to "All damn day long."

MF can then take the average from all players playing in the game. Divide that by the optimal amount of turns  necessary to reach a majority of the points necessary for a win (they will need to hire Celestial Chameleon full time to analyze every game as it comes up) and that is how long the timer for a turn should be. If you go over this time limit you automatically gain a scout and your turn ends.

Goons/Monument games last indefinitely.
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yuma

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2015, 08:47:57 am »
0

But in all seriousness... however isotropic handled the issue would be my preference. That was the ideal.
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SCSN

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2015, 08:48:40 am »
+6

Goons/Monument games last indefinitely.

So that's what happened to all those guys who got stuck forever in the Goko lobbies.
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werothegreat

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2015, 08:49:07 am »
+4

Goons games do not last indefinitely - eventually you buy out the Supply.

I am in favor of a turn timer - I am not in favor of a game timer.

My ideal turn timer: it starts if it's been 15-30 seconds since you last did something (60 seconds on the first turn, to give players a chance to read the cards).  Let's say the timer gives 60 seconds or so.  If you do something, the countdown stops, but it starts up again (where it left off) if you again take 15-30 seconds since you last did something.  It doesn't cut players off from doing more stuff, like Hearthstone does, but it does encourage players to hurry the fuck up with their turn.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2015, 08:59:49 am »
0

Can't we just execute all the slow players and tolerate that others take the time they need to do as few misclicks as possible and think about all the relevant options they have?

We don't live in a perfect world though, so I think werothegreat's idea is actually the one I like the most
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Limetime

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2015, 09:14:03 am »
0

Making fun could solve this by automatching players with a similar time per move.
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mpsprs

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2015, 09:18:04 am »
+2

I think wero's suggestion may be the best practical suggestion.  There should be an option to turn it off entirely though (even though I play fairly quickly, I would not want me or my opponents to feel rushed in a league match).

A timer for max amount of time for the whole game seems completely inappropriate to me.  I've played games that lasted 45 minutes before, and it did not feel like either player was taking an undue amount of time.

werothegreat

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2015, 09:25:23 am »
+2

I think wero's suggestion may be the best practical suggestion.  There should be an option to turn it off entirely though (even though I play fairly quickly, I would not want me or my opponents to feel rushed in a league match).

My thought:

Seek a game - timer on as default.  In game, if both players consent, can be turned off.
Challenge - timer off as default. In game, if both players consent, can be turned on.

Reasoning - seek is with strangers, is for when you want to have a quick game.  Challenge is with a friend or known party, and you either want to have fun, or want to have some sort of tournament-style game.
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Donald X.

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2015, 09:44:26 am »
+1

For example, on their forum, the players were asking for the timer to allow games to only be 10 minutes and no more than that, feeling as this that is an acceptable amount of time.
The guy who asked for that, yed, actually said, "How about 10 minutes time bank + add 10 seconds for each click you do?" That's a lot more than 10 minutes.

I agree that it's better to pitch something good now, rather than wait and see what they implement.

For me it's two separate issues. The first is that some players are just slower. As Limetime suggests, that could be matchmaking criteria. The only problem with you being really slow is your opponent having to sit through it.

The second is that sometimes someone decides to try to annoy you into resigning, by taking as long as possible on each click. Here they are someone evil we want to detect. This seems possible. A player who is slow, who is thinking a lot, still doesn't pause after every click.
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werothegreat

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2015, 09:59:37 am »
0

The second is that sometimes someone decides to try to annoy you into resigning, by taking as long as possible on each click. Here they are someone evil we want to detect. This seems possible. A player who is slow, who is thinking a lot, still doesn't pause after every click.

That's why I suggested a countdown timer that does not reset when you do something - it just pauses.  So slow-play-assholes will get booted pretty quickly.
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DG

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2015, 10:17:14 am »
+2

Why not just suggest Isotropic method?
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Donald X.

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2015, 10:17:51 am »
+1

The second is that sometimes someone decides to try to annoy you into resigning, by taking as long as possible on each click. Here they are someone evil we want to detect. This seems possible. A player who is slow, who is thinking a lot, still doesn't pause after every click.

That's why I suggested a countdown timer that does not reset when you do something - it just pauses.  So slow-play-assholes will get booted pretty quickly.
There is simply no problem with slow play when people tolerate it, such as slow player vs. slow player. So whatever detects evil people wants to have zero effect on all other games, zero effect. I just want to know when the person is behaving obviously antagonistically. And then completely separate from that have a way to match players by play speed.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2015, 10:24:40 am »
0

The second is that sometimes someone decides to try to annoy you into resigning, by taking as long as possible on each click. Here they are someone evil we want to detect. This seems possible. A player who is slow, who is thinking a lot, still doesn't pause after every click.

That's why I suggested a countdown timer that does not reset when you do something - it just pauses.  So slow-play-assholes will get booted pretty quickly.
There is simply no problem with slow play when people tolerate it, such as slow player vs. slow player. So whatever detects evil people wants to have zero effect on all other games, zero effect. I just want to know when the person is behaving obviously antagonistically. And then completely separate from that have a way to match players by play speed.

To add to this, on Friday night I played with a new IRL group. We played two 4-player games and each one lasted over an hour. These were not new players and the games were not particularly sloggy. They were just very deliberate in their decision making. That's what they were all used to; it was normal for them.

So uh I guess my point is, I agree that it would be good to be able to play slow games.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2015, 10:26:23 am »
0

The guy who asked for that, yed, actually said, "How about 10 minutes time bank + add 10 seconds for each click you do?" That's a lot more than 10 minutes.

This sort of thing would be my preference. I'd start with say 5 minutes instead, but I like the general idea.
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pst

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2015, 11:57:14 am »
+3

"How about 10 minutes time bank + add 10 seconds for each click you do?". I like that kind of timing, but there are several options of Time Control [Wikipedia].

Of course the timer shouldn't be tied to when it's your turn, but for when you have a decision to make. When you play Militia your timer stops and an opponents timer starts until they have discarded, etc.

Also I don't think you should lose automatically because you run out of time. Your opponent(s) should get the option to win, but could choose to continue if they want. "X is taking a long time to play. Do you want to force X to resign?".

In a multiplayer game it should be enough that one of your opponents forced you to resign, but then it's important that a game continues with bot replacements whenever there are two or more players left after a resignation. "X is taking a long time to play. Do you want to force X to resign and be replaced by Lord Bottington?"

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GendoIkari

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Re: Time Out Timer for Online Dominion
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2015, 01:26:40 pm »
0

Why not just suggest Isotropic method?

Isotropic did nothing to prevent players from being intentionally slow to try and get you to resign. They could click 1 click every 3 minutes, and make a turn last hours.
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