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[ehunt]

anyone else autopilot to ignore 5 cost treasures, only to fail to notice that Counterfeit is on the board? It turns out that this problem extends even to filling out Qvist's ranking chart.

(luckily, probably because of the artwork and the hyphen in the name, my autopilot doesn't miss IGG)

[ehunt]

I guess this was unfair.

Good 5-cost treasures:
Counterfeit, IGG

Pretty good 5-cost treasures:
Venture, Horn of Plenty

clunkers:
Stash, Royal Seal, Contraband, Cache

I suspect treasure trove will be between layers 2 and 3 but maybe wrong. EDIT: also forgot about Relic.

[GendoIkari]

Royal Seal is fine, why does everyone complain about Royal Seal? They can't all be the best 5 cost treasure ever.

[eHalcyon]

I'd pay attention to Contraband.  Sometimes it can facilitate early engine building.

[GendoIkari]

I'd pay attention to Contraband.  Sometimes it can facilitate early engine building.

Yeah I'm way out of touch with current knowledge about good/high-level Dominion strategy, but I think that Contraband is often pretty good. 

[markusin]

I tend to take notice of the 5-cost treasures just because I find them fascinating and want them to be good. It's the 4-cost treasures that I tend to overlook, but then my opponent opens Quarry and I immediately realize that I have to think about that card.

It's a bit of a bummer if you have to stop playing Contraband when you want to gain big VP cards, so hopefully you have a way of trashing it for some benefit at that point with Apprentice or Remodel or something.

[Limetime]

I suspect treasure trove will be between layers 2 and 3 but maybe wrong. EDIT: also forgot about Relic.

Treasure trove is better than venture. It plus BM is miles ahead of venture plus trashing. They are both pretty bad in engines.

[Eevee]

I'd pay attention to Contraband.  Sometimes it can facilitate early engine building.

Yeah I'm way out of touch with current knowledge about good/high-level Dominion strategy, but I think that Contraband is often pretty good.

It's legitimately one of the worst cards in the game.

[Awaclus]

I'd pay attention to Contraband.  Sometimes it can facilitate early engine building.

Yeah I'm way out of touch with current knowledge about good/high-level Dominion strategy, but I think that Contraband is often pretty good.

It's legitimately one of the worst cards in the game.

This. I have played only a couple of games where it was good, and even then it wasn't super amazing.

[schadd]

Code: [Select]

27.) Horn of Plenty   [X]

treasure trove i have at 126, it adds a gold to your remodel engine and doesn't cost you an action and adds $4 to your overdrawing one, while not costing an action, and also you get two whole dollars when you play it.
contranband is a junk card once you start buying provinces (unless you're not buying provinces, see top of post) which is a luxury only trashers get to have. it's in that sort of hot-garbo tier where it's not that bad and also there's always something more interesting to get and if there isn't then you don't want it anyway.

[Awaclus]

Horn of Plenty is one of the cards that should immediately stand out from the kingdom and make you ask yourself the question "is there any way I can build an engine?".

[Mic Qsenoch]

If I did them all:

Counterfeit, HoP, IGG, Relic, Treasure Trove, Venture, Stash, Contraband, Royal Seal, Cache

Counterfeit is a lot better than the rest, though HoP is pretty sweet too. Playing a Relic every turn is actually a pretty nice attack. Treasure Trove is very nice in super strong engines and money but hard to include in a less consistent engine. I could see Treasure Trove moving above Relic and IGG, not sure. All the pure money producers are pretty bad cards, they are innocent additions to certain decks but rarely make a big impact. Venture's powers have been terribly exaggerated since forever. Contraband is a lot more interesting when looking at the board, it actually does something. I wanted to put Contraband over Venture, but even if you might consider Contraband you don't usually get one. Contraband might be worse than Royal Seal I guess.

edit: I forgot Stash (thanks eHalcyon).

edit2: I don't think "pure money producers" makes any sense as a label, but I think I meant: Venture, Royal Seal, Stash, (sort of Cache).

[eHalcyon]

If I did them all:

Counterfeit, HoP, IGG, Relic, Treasure Trove, Venture, Contraband, Royal Seal, Cache

Counterfeit is a lot better than the rest, though HoP is pretty sweet too. Playing a Relic every turn is actually a pretty nice attack. Treasure Trove is very nice in super strong engines and money but hard to include in a less consistent engine. I could see Treasure Trove moving above Relic and IGG, not sure. All the pure money producers are pretty bad cards, they are innocent additions to certain decks but rarely make a big impact. Venture's powers have been terribly exaggerated since forever. Contraband is a lot more interesting when looking at the board, it actually does something. I wanted to put Contraband over Venture, but even if you might consider Contraband you don't usually get one. Contraband might be worse than Royal Seal I guess.

Stash?

[ehunt]

bof... venture is the bee's knees...

contraband, i'd say the games where you wind up buying it (usually because of an otherwise good board with no +Buy or a truly terrible board) are really interesting games, so it's the most memorable of the terrible 5-cost treasures. but it's still, objectively, not a good card.

[schadd]

Counterfeit, HoP, IGG, Relic, Treasure Trove, Venture, Stash, Contraband, Royal Seal, Cache

second

[Mole5000]

Horn of Plenty is one of the cards that should immediately stand out from the kingdom and make you ask yourself the question "is there any way I can build an engine?".

Horn of Plenty is one of two cards (along with Duke) that makes me go "Oh no, I'm going to get crushed" as I can never, ever play them right whilst my opponent produces works of incredible artifice and genius with them.

[ehunt]

Horn of Plenty is one of the cards that should immediately stand out from the kingdom and make you ask yourself the question "is there any way I can build an engine?".

agree/disagree. it's a fabulous card and fun to play around. certainly in the top 10 most fun cards to see on a board. but it can be a trap -- primarily, it needs lots and lots of draw. id say it's a little below IGG in terms of goodhood.

what's good (and fun) about it is that it's its own reward for playing around it. the deck that's good enough to draw 5+ horns of plenty is the deck that's about to end the game on a win.

[Mic Qsenoch]

Horn of Plenty is one of the cards that should immediately stand out from the kingdom and make you ask yourself the question "is there any way I can build an engine?".

agree/disagree. it's a fabulous card and fun to play around. certainly in the top 10 most fun cards to see on a board. but it can be a trap -- primarily, it needs lots and lots of draw. id say it's a little below IGG in terms of goodhood.

what's good (and fun) about it is that it's its own reward for playing around it. the deck that's good enough to draw 5+ horns of plenty is the deck that's about to end the game on a win.

You don't need a HoP megaturn to make HoP good (and you don't have to be playing with a bunch of Horns if you can't support that many). Just gaining multiple $3-5s is already great and the potential extra Province or Duchy at the end of the game can be huge. It's big loss relative to other gainers is not allowing gain and play in the same turn (except with Black Market or Storyteller), but of course it's nice not to need an action and the $ value of the gained cards can be so much higher.

[popsofctown]

In the (increasingly rare) games where a terminal BM that would buy 5$ silver is a close call in strength to the board's engine deck, deciding how helpful the 5$ treasure is is an interesting factor on evaluating the board.

But yeah they usually kinda suck and stuff.

[eigensheep]

Royal seal isn't that bad. For example, royal seal/nothing is a better opening than masquerade/nothing on a masquerade big money board.

[Schneau]

Royal seal isn't that bad. For example, royal seal/nothing is a better opening than masquerade/nothing on a masquerade big money board.

This is an anecdotal edge case, and is only true because it often allows you to still play Masq in the second shuffle.

I'd vote Royal Seal not only the worst $5 treasure, but the worst $5 card period.

[LastFootnote]

Royal seal isn't that bad. For example, royal seal/nothing is a better opening than masquerade/nothing on a masquerade big money board.

This is an anecdotal edge case, and is only true because it often allows you to still play Masq in the second shuffle.

I'd vote Royal Seal not only the worst $5 treasure, but the worst $5 card period.

That is patently ridiculous. Cache is weaker by a landslide, and Harvest is also easily worse.

[-Stef-]

Royal seal isn't that bad. For example, royal seal/nothing is a better opening than masquerade/nothing on a masquerade big money board.

This is an anecdotal edge case, and is only true because it often allows you to still play Masq in the second shuffle.

I'd vote Royal Seal not only the worst $5 treasure, but the worst $5 card period.

That is patently ridiculous. Cache is weaker by a landslide, and Harvest is also easily worse.

Agreed, Royal Seal is pretty decent among the bad $5s, and Cache is so weak I usually don't even notice it when it's on the board.

Around two weeks ago I was playing an Ambassador war on a board that also featured Stables. My opponent had an unlucky start and ended up with much more Stables and less Ambassador activity. But because of his superior draw the Ambassadors he did play were a lot more effective and his Moats were also annoying so I never really managed to junk him. At that point Cache caught my eye. Man, shipping over a couple of those every turn sure is effective.

[popsofctown]

Royal Seal is leagues ahead of Cache.

[pubby]

Cache has combos though. Royal Seal got nothing.