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Author Topic: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)  (Read 14940 times)

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ravi

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Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« on: October 29, 2015, 07:19:58 am »
+3

So I think what Adam was trying to do was actually a good thing and really trying to solve the problem, however, using forum responses to gather data is really difficult.  I made a simple form that I think is a much better way to get this data and you can reply to this thread with your comments about the form, about the automatch problem or even about otters if you want.

Data collection form
Form Results


I have made the Isotropish stuff optional, but I think that data can really help if you take the time to check there.  Not sure if anyone will use this for real, but thought I would try to help Adam out with what he was trying to do. I realize it is near impossible to get the ranking of your opponent, so you can leave that blank if you can't find it. Hopefully the MakingFun people can tell from the gamelog if the two players are properly ranked or not.
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-Stef-

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2015, 07:46:15 am »
+3

While I think there is nothing wrong with your intentions (or Adams), as I tried to describe yesterday the main mission here was to put it on their radar. They don't really need more input on this, all they need to do is actually look at it. And probably mostly thanks to Donald waving in on it, that mission was a success.

Quoting David yesterday:
Quote
Thanks, all. Jeff is going to examine this.

Man. Case closed, thread over.
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ravi

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2015, 10:00:09 am »
0

Alright, that's great news, didn't follow every single thread about this issue, but let's hope they make something better with it. Just saw yesterday the frustration Adam felt and thought that if this data was needed then it could be done in a better way than gathering data through forum responses.

It may still be good to get some data in case they feel like it is working even though it isn't, so I'll just leave this here for anyone who wants to contribute anyways. It may also show how the Isotropish rating is better than the MF rating which may convince them to switch (we can dream right?).
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AdamH

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2015, 11:52:00 am »
+2

that mission was a success.

I'm not sold on this.

At no point did we ever give them the information they needed to reproduce this problem. I think it's not unfair to assume that they did some testing on this option before they pushed it out and it worked for them, so there's some issue that they didn't see. We've told them it isn't working for us, but if they aren't able to replicate that behavior, they will have a tough time fixing it.

Just because DXV says "case closed" doesn't mean they have what they need from us. Yeah maybe they can figure it out but if my assumption is true (I hope it isn't) then they could still potentially benefit from having some actual data beyond "MQ started a game with a guy whose rating was too far off. It's broken. Fix it lol."

I mean, I just typed all of that but nothing is going to happen anyways. If anything, someone is going to respond to me with disrespect and get 55 upvotes for it. Yesterday I made that last post here and I was really frustrated. I appreciate that some people out there can understand why I'm frustrated, but that isn't changing anything to make it better. I was so angry that my hands were shaking while I trying to type that post for the fifth time (I deleted four of them because they were full of profanity and insults that weren't very becoming). I haven't been that angry about anything in a really long time, and for personal reasons, it really didn't feel good. I thought sleeping on it and just stepping away for a day would make it better. It didn't. I feel like I'm thinking clearly now and now I'm just filled with contempt for pretty much every person on this forum, which I know is not rational. I'm at a place emotionally where I haven't been in a very long time, and I hoped I'd never go back to, and it was because of people on the internet who I've never met.

This is getting into an area that I don't really want to talk about anymore.
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Chris is me

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2015, 12:24:59 pm »
+7

To be quite frank, why were you so angry? The reply was saying that the information you asked for was prohibitively difficult to collect, and the methodology of the request was inherently flawed. It was so very clearly trying to help; if they (and everyone else) just didn't reply if they couldn't fill it out, we'd just have a dead empty thread. We would all be thinking that nobody cares and that no one on FDS had any interest in helping out. Ignoring the problem seems more disrespectful than politely pointing it out and proposing a solution to it.

I really don't want to come across as disrespectful, but I don't think the posters in that thread did either. I'm just completely lost as to why the responses set you off so much. People aren't upvoting all those replies because they have some beef with you (I sure as hell don't), I think they are just in agreement with the legitimate confusion others feel about how that thread went down.

---

Back to the topic at hand: we don't need to "give them the information needed to reproduce the bug". They have all the logs. They have all the records they need to see this exists. Examples have already been given to them. All they need to do to reproduce the bug themselves is hit the Play button once or twice. DXV said case closed because the developers acknowledged it and said they are working on it - why would we assume that they need information from us if they already have access to all of it and they also haven't asked us for literally anything? It's not like the replay bug where the problem was hard to describe and poorly understood - this is straightforward, it says "never" and it doesn't do "never". Maybe there is something about this I don't know.
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2015, 12:26:20 pm »
+2


I'm not sold on this.

At no point did we ever give them the information they needed to reproduce this problem. I think it's not unfair to assume that they did some testing on this option before they pushed it out and it worked for them, so there's some issue that they didn't see. We've told them it isn't working for us, but if they aren't able to replicate that behavior, they will have a tough time fixing it.

Just because DXV says "case closed" doesn't mean they have what they need from us. Yeah maybe they can figure it out but if my assumption is true (I hope it isn't) then they could still potentially benefit from having some actual data beyond "MQ started a game with a guy whose rating was too far off. It's broken. Fix it lol."
...

But we don't have this information, do we? "MQ started a game with a guy whose rating was too far off. It's broken. Fix it lol." is the best we can do. Maybe we can replace the "lol" with a "please", but that's about it. We click a button, the result differs from what the button tells us. If you don't want to dig around in their code, I honestly don't know what information we could give them that they don't already have.
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SCSN

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2015, 12:28:11 pm »
+1

I agree with Chris. Me providing information has absolutely nothing to do with disrespect and I find it truly baffling that you think otherwise, especially after our long and intimate heart-to-heart talk the other day that even culminated in a kiss!
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Chris is me

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2015, 12:31:06 pm »
+5

I agree with Chris. Me providing information has absolutely nothing to do with disrespect and I find it truly baffling that you think otherwise, especially after our long and intimate heart-to-heart talk the other day that even culminated in a kiss!

In fairness to Adam, this really doesn't help de-escalate the situation.


:P
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2015, 12:31:59 pm »
+1

that mission was a success.
I'm not sold on this.
that mission specifically referred to putting it on their radar. I know it hasn't been solved yet, which would be the true goal.
But the next step is that they try to fix it. Let's give them a week. I don't know how long they take for something when the game creator says should be your top priority but more than a week seems long to me, and expecting anything under a week from a developer is always dangerous. And one of their responses could indeed be "we need more data" but that sounds unlikely in this case.


At no point did we ever give them the information they needed to reproduce this problem. I think it's not unfair to assume that they did some testing on this option before they pushed it out and it worked for them, so there's some issue that they didn't see. We've told them it isn't working for us, but if they aren't able to replicate that behavior, they will have a tough time fixing it.
I haven't written anything about it on this forum, but the main surprise for me when I started betatesting their product was that there is no log. I'm not referring to a game log (that didn't exist at the time either but it does now) but a log where the client logs whatever it does, thinks and/or communicates with the server. Such a log is a crucial tool in any debugging process where your product is actually used by people not running the debugger. If your intentions are to actually fix bugs, I cannot imagine ever releasing a product that doesn't generate a log. I consider the fact that they don't produce it a deep insult to all testers. The way we were supposed to collect feedback now (please make screenshots) and what you were planning yesterday or razi today is a) very time consuming compared to including a log in your bug report and b) not even close to being as useful.
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2015, 12:32:51 pm »
+11

I mean, I just typed all of that but nothing is going to happen anyways. If anything, someone is going to respond to me with disrespect and get 55 upvotes for it. Yesterday I made that last post here and I was really frustrated. I appreciate that some people out there can understand why I'm frustrated, but that isn't changing anything to make it better. I was so angry that my hands were shaking while I trying to type that post for the fifth time (I deleted four of them because they were full of profanity and insults that weren't very becoming). I haven't been that angry about anything in a really long time, and for personal reasons, it really didn't feel good. I thought sleeping on it and just stepping away for a day would make it better. It didn't. I feel like I'm thinking clearly now and now I'm just filled with contempt for pretty much every person on this forum, which I know is not rational. I'm at a place emotionally where I haven't been in a very long time, and I hoped I'd never go back to, and it was because of people on the internet who I've never met.

This is getting into an area that I don't really want to talk about anymore.
This is a very serious thing. I have no idea whether you are looking for my input or not, but here it is anyway.

I feel sorry for you. I can understand your perspective, in the sense that I've been there myself and I know it can happen to people/me. That doesn't mean I think it actually makes sense.
In fact, I think it's just about the opposite of "making sense" and the frustrating part is that that is very hard to realize yourself.
I think it has been building up for way longer than you now realize, I've seen the signs get bigger and bigger for at least the last 6 months.
From the happy screaming loud guy on stream you've slowly turned into the cynical screaming loud guy that spends a lot of time criticizing his opponent, spectators and/or community.
I have no idea what the root cause is here, and I don't even want to speculate. But I do know it's not a bunch of people on the internet. There will always be a bunch of people on the internet, and when you're in a healthy emotional state that is not going to be a problem.

I may not have written this in the friendliest way, or maybe at the wrong time...
Adam, the key solution to your problem is:

vacation
...but it was a very serious suggestion and I hope you will take it serious. I'd much rather lose you for a month than see you stay for two more weeks and than say goodbye to f.ds / the internet / ? forever.

I want the Adam from a year ago back. Please go look for him. I think he's hiding in some kind of resort or on a nice beach and if you look for two weeks there is a good chance you'll find him.
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SCSN

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2015, 12:35:59 pm »
+2

I agree with Chris. Me providing information has absolutely nothing to do with disrespect and I find it truly baffling that you think otherwise, especially after our long and intimate heart-to-heart talk the other day that even culminated in a kiss!

In fairness to Adam, this really doesn't help de-escalate the situation.


:P

I just wanted to convey that I meant no harm in a light-hearted manner, so please mentally replace my post by this flat statement if you find it a better fit.
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Donald X.

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2015, 12:55:47 pm »
+9

At no point did we ever give them the information they needed to reproduce this problem. I think it's not unfair to assume that they did some testing on this option before they pushed it out and it worked for them, so there's some issue that they didn't see. We've told them it isn't working for us, but if they aren't able to replicate that behavior, they will have a tough time fixing it.
I strongly suspect they cannot fail to reproduce the problem, and that it will be obvious that it doesn't work and what's wrong from the most fleeting of glances at the code. Now that won't be enough; they need a better set of matchmaking options, with new buttons and things. But the bug with that option, man, it's not the kind of bug you labor over.

Just because DXV says "case closed" doesn't mean they have what they need from us. Yeah maybe they can figure it out but if my assumption is true (I hope it isn't) then they could still potentially benefit from having some actual data beyond "MQ started a game with a guy whose rating was too far off. It's broken. Fix it lol."
Hey, they also got 2 logs.

I try to have fun here on the internet. One thing you can do sometimes is say "case closed, thread over." Obv. the thread wasn't over; we had by no means exhausted the discussion possibilities of otters.

Again it is really unlikely they need anything beyond "this feature doesn't work, and, in case you hadn't done this math, it's making the game worse for players of all skill levels."

I haven't been that angry about anything in a really long time, and for personal reasons, it really didn't feel good. I thought sleeping on it and just stepping away for a day would make it better. It didn't. I feel like I'm thinking clearly now and now I'm just filled with contempt for pretty much every person on this forum, which I know is not rational. I'm at a place emotionally where I haven't been in a very long time, and I hoped I'd never go back to, and it was because of people on the internet who I've never met.
My personal advice is, that the internet is in many ways a training ground for real-life, a place where things matter way less. Try to profit from that, to have your bad reactions when they don't matter, and learn from them. You can get mad at me and SCSN all day and not lose your job or get divorced or whatever. But I mean, try to come out ahead on the other side, so that in real life you don't make the same mistakes or have the same problems.
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2015, 01:13:13 pm »
+3

Some otter advice: take a look at some otters.  Man, they're cute. 
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AdamH

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 01:53:46 pm »
0

Look, I appreciate your concern for my feelings. It's really great. I don't want to talk about it here. Stef, you've made a lot of assumptions in your post about what's going on in my head. Some of them are not entirely wrong, but there's a lot you (and everyone else) don't know about me as a person and I want to keep it that way. The fact that the last year has been a huge success for me emotionally in all other aspects of my life and I just lost my you-know-what over this makes me convinced that the problem isn't me, but it's this subboard. My reaction to this particular thing is separate and it's none of anybody's business.

I think you meant well, Stef, but your comment about me needing a vacation and about my stream commentary and all that stuff, given how much you don't know about the situation, comes of as condescending. I will decide what's best for me -- I think it happens to be something similar to what you suggested, but that is my decision and nobody else's. Please just let me deal with it.

SCSN, maybe you meant no disrespect, but it came across that way. I had a simple request that feedback like yours be posted in the thread I linked, which you ignored even after I reminded you of it. You are slightly less of a jerk than you would have been if you had been trying to be disrespectful, but that doesn't change the way you made me feel. In fact, in this case your intent doesn't matter.

If I didn't know what the N-word meant and I was saying it all the time (not meaning any offense), sure the right thing to do is for someone to tell me "hey, that word is offensive, don't say it." If I continue to say the N-word, even if I don't mean any offense, it makes me a jerk. Sure, it's just a word and I mean no harm, but that doesn't matter; I should stop saying it. Even if I'm OK being a jerk and offending all of these people, I can't be surprised when people I've offended don't want much to do with me.

Your feedback was worth talking about, in fact I even tried to do that! But that conversation went nowhere for several really stupid reasons.
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SCSN

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 02:07:08 pm »
+3

When you find yourself being offended by something literally no one else finds offensive (like my posts in that thread and unlike the word "nigger") the problem is with your own processing of and reaction to the data and not with the data itself or the person producing it.

And btw, you calling me a jerk is objectively more offensive than anything I've ever said to you, yet it doesn't bother me at all. I recommend you learn to do the same: don't take life so seriously and just let go.
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ehunt

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2015, 02:24:09 pm »
+11

Look, I appreciate your concern for my feelings. It's really great. I don't want to talk about it here. Stef, you've made a lot of assumptions in your post about what's going on in my head. Some of them are not entirely wrong, but there's a lot you (and everyone else) don't know about me as a person and I want to keep it that way. The fact that the last year has been a huge success for me emotionally in all other aspects of my life and I just lost my you-know-what over this makes me convinced that the problem isn't me, but it's this subboard. My reaction to this particular thing is separate and it's none of anybody's business.

I think you meant well, Stef, but your comment about me needing a vacation and about my stream commentary and all that stuff, given how much you don't know about the situation, comes of as condescending. I will decide what's best for me -- I think it happens to be something similar to what you suggested, but that is my decision and nobody else's. Please just let me deal with it.

SCSN, maybe you meant no disrespect, but it came across that way. I had a simple request that feedback like yours be posted in the thread I linked, which you ignored even after I reminded you of it. You are slightly less of a jerk than you would have been if you had been trying to be disrespectful, but that doesn't change the way you made me feel. In fact, in this case your intent doesn't matter.

If I didn't know what the N-word meant and I was saying it all the time (not meaning any offense), sure the right thing to do is for someone to tell me "hey, that word is offensive, don't say it." If I continue to say the N-word, even if I don't mean any offense, it makes me a jerk. Sure, it's just a word and I mean no harm, but that doesn't matter; I should stop saying it. Even if I'm OK being a jerk and offending all of these people, I can't be surprised when people I've offended don't want much to do with me.

Your feedback was worth talking about, in fact I even tried to do that! But that conversation went nowhere for several really stupid reasons.

So, I don't play in League and we don't really know each other but I think you're cool and your Dominion advice is spot on and the video where you got the most ridiculously awful draws in history and then accidentally bought a second potion was my favorite video of all time. I was going to write this yesterday but I thought you would get the impression people were picking on you and I didn't want to add to that. Since you're doing fine in your personal life and the only thing bugging you is this forum issue itself, I thought I would explain where I was coming from in upvoting a bunch of the dissenting posts on your thread.

Most (not all!) people on this board disagree with you about how to deal with problems with Making Fun. You think you are right anyway, and I mean, it could definitely happen that you are right -- it's not like this is a problem that's solved by democracy. This puts you in a very frustrating position. Certainly I disagree with you on the Making Fun issue, but I've been in that position before on other issues.

However, your posts yesterday came across less as someone who is trying to persuade the majority to change their position to his own, and more as those of a crusader who is 100% convinced that the majority is just a bunch of selfish jerks who know that they are wrong about how to help Dominion but choose to continue to be wrong just to get a rush out of saying mean things about Making Fun.

I found the "I'm the only one trying to actually help surrounded by non-serious people" attitude particularly jarring. A lot of people are trying to help. You just disagree about the best way to help. Which again is fine, maybe you're right! But it doesn't mean you're the only one. SheCantSayNo wrote a whole software package to help! It's just that you found that to be an illegitimate way to deal with the problem, so it didn't count as a positive tally for you.

Along the same lines, if you tell people "this is my thread and you can only do x in it," basically all human beings alive are going to choose "not x." This is just a time-honored fact about what happens when people perceive that you are telling them what to do. (By the way, I also really dislike the proliferation of mine/mint jokes, scout jokes, etc. But your post came across more as "don't disagree with me somewhere that people can see it.")

Again, I don't mean this as a personal attack, and I wouldn't have posted it if you hadn't said that you were otherwise happy. Can I suggest that you just like, for your forum-sanity, choose not to worry about MakingFun for a couple weeks? Like, post Dominion strategy articles, Dominion-related stuff. I think that you would enjoy this more too, especially since you feel like you're not getting enough help with your current approach anyway!
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2015, 02:30:01 pm »
+4

Along the same lines, if you tell people "this is my thread and you can only do x in it," basically all human beings alive are going to choose "not x." This is just a time-honored fact about what happens when people perceive that you are telling them what to do.

The man who draws a line in the sand will soon find everyone else on the other side.
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AdamH

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2015, 02:33:42 pm »
0

When you find yourself being offended by something literally no one else finds offensive (like my posts in that thread and unlike the word [...]) the problem is with your own processing of and reaction to the data and not with the data itself or the person producing it.

This is just incorrect on several levels. Maybe a better example is appropriate.

Actually why am I even trying? Really? OK I guess.

I built a tower out of blocks in my basement. I'm proud of my creation so I invite my friend Will Smith over to check it out, maybe suggest some sweet mods to it or something. Mr. Smith sees the tower of blocks and says to himself "Oh! A tower of blocks! I know what I love to do with those!" and runs right into it, knocking it down. I'm a little upset by this, so I explain to Will that I don't want my tower knocked down, but I'd rather keep it standing so I can look at it, maybe tweak it, add figurines, LEDs, I dunno. While explaining this, I set up my tower again. Once it's finished, Mr. Smith sees a tower of blocks and says to himself "Oh! A tower of blocks! I know what I love to do with those!" and runs right into it, knocking it down.

The solution to this is to not invite Will Smith over to my basement anymore because he doesn't care what I think of my tower of blocks. It doesn't matter to him that I don't want him to knock down my tower of blocks, he will just do it anyways. In fact, if Will repeatedly demonstrates that he doesn't care about my feelings and will just do or say whatever he wants, then eventually I'll learn that he's not the kind of person I want to hang out with.

My neighbor doesn't care about my tower of blocks, most people in the world don't care about my tower of blocks. It doesn't make Will Smith a better person. It doesn't mean that I should continue inviting Will Smith over to my basement so he can continue to knock down my tower of blocks. I care about my tower of blocks. If Will Smith was a decent person he would see that and eventually stop knocking over my tower of blocks. Even if Will Smith thought my tower of blocks was stupid and deserved to be knocked over, the decektn thing to do would be to just keep that to himself and not knock down my tower of blocks anymore.

Is this making sense to you?
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2015, 02:45:37 pm »
0

When you find yourself being offended by something literally no one else finds offensive (like my posts in that thread and unlike the word [...]) the problem is with your own processing of and reaction to the data and not with the data itself or the person producing it.

This is just incorrect on several levels. Maybe a better example is appropriate.

Actually why am I even trying? Really? OK I guess.

I built a tower out of blocks in my basement. I'm proud of my creation so I invite my friend Will Smith over to check it out, maybe suggest some sweet mods to it or something. Mr. Smith sees the tower of blocks and says to himself "Oh! A tower of blocks! I know what I love to do with those!" and runs right into it, knocking it down. I'm a little upset by this, so I explain to Will that I don't want my tower knocked down, but I'd rather keep it standing so I can look at it, maybe tweak it, add figurines, LEDs, I dunno. While explaining this, I set up my tower again. Once it's finished, Mr. Smith sees a tower of blocks and says to himself "Oh! A tower of blocks! I know what I love to do with those!" and runs right into it, knocking it down.

The solution to this is to not invite Will Smith over to my basement anymore because he doesn't care what I think of my tower of blocks. It doesn't matter to him that I don't want him to knock down my tower of blocks, he will just do it anyways. In fact, if Will repeatedly demonstrates that he doesn't care about my feelings and will just do or say whatever he wants, then eventually I'll learn that he's not the kind of person I want to hang out with.

My neighbor doesn't care about my tower of blocks, most people in the world don't care about my tower of blocks. It doesn't make Will Smith a better person. It doesn't mean that I should continue inviting Will Smith over to my basement so he can continue to knock down my tower of blocks. I care about my tower of blocks. If Will Smith was a decent person he would see that and eventually stop knocking over my tower of blocks. Even if Will Smith thought my tower of blocks was stupid and deserved to be knocked over, the decektn thing to do would be to just keep that to himself and not knock down my tower of blocks anymore.

Is this making sense to you?

It's more like you're telling Will Smith that while in your basement, he cannot say that your tower of blocks looks ugly.  And you're not even just banning the word ugly, you're banning any manner of expressing that he doesn't agree with you that it is beautiful, no matter how politely or rudely he expresses it. 

People are not comfortable when you try to mess with their free speech.  Making threads where people are banned from disagreeing with you, and disagreeing with people in a way that discredits them as not really trying to help rather than agreeing to disagree makes people feel like you are messing with their free speech.
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gkrieg13

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2015, 02:46:13 pm »
0

I thought most people liked Will Smith?
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faust

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2015, 02:48:59 pm »
+4


This example might not be the best to help your case. f.ds is not your basement, it belongs to all of us, and if anyone gets to decide whether or not people are welcome at f.ds, it is theory, not you.
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2015, 02:52:50 pm »
0

The great irony here of course is that Adam takes the exactly same attitude towards f.ds that he accuses f.ds to take towards Making Fun: Always assuming the worst instead of cutting them some slack sometimes.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2015, 02:54:34 pm »
+13

A child is building a tower of blocks at daycare. Lots of other kids are running around playing with stuff too. He is feeling like this tower will be too much work for one kid so he asks for some help from his colleagues.

"Make sure you only add green blocks to the tower!" he requests.

"All the green blocks are in the bucket on the highest shelf, we'll need the teacher's help to get those," another boy observes. "But how about starting with this teal block?" He places it in the construction zone.

Nuclear meltdown ensues.
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2015, 03:06:08 pm »
+1

I'm not trying to stop people's "freedom of speech." I honestly didn't (and still don't) understand why people can't just say nothing when they disagree with me when what I'm doing is not getting in anyone's way. It's not hard to just ignore the thread, I don't understand why that isn't an option. There's a counting thread that everybody is doing great in that started yesterday, but the threads I start just end up getting trolled and derailed and people just do what they want.

And the response seems to be "hey, it's the internet! We can do what we want lol get over it!" F.DS used to be above this, but I guess we aren't anymore. OK.

Clearly the answer then is for me to stop posting here, so I'll stop. I hope you're all happy here.
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Re: Data Collection for the Automatch Problem (For Real)
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2015, 03:10:01 pm »
+1

I'm not trying to stop people's "freedom of speech." I honestly didn't (and still don't) understand why people can't just say nothing when they disagree with me when what I'm doing is not getting in anyone's way. It's not hard to just ignore the thread, I don't understand why that isn't an option. There's a counting thread that everybody is doing great in that started yesterday, but the threads I start just end up getting trolled and derailed and people just do what they want.

And the response seems to be "hey, it's the internet! We can do what we want lol get over it!" F.DS used to be above this, but I guess we aren't anymore. OK.

Clearly the answer then is for me to stop posting here, so I'll stop. I hope you're all happy here.

The thing is, threads get derailed; it's going to happen and it's okay.  Fighting that is going to be frustrating and fruitless, and lead to unnecessary argument. 
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