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Author Topic: Hearthstone's tracker problem  (Read 4321 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2015, 06:15:12 pm »
+1

This thread got necro'ed and it wasn't about Reno Jackson?  The value of a Hearthstone Tracker doubles on thursday if he doesn't get a yellow outline when he's live.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2015, 06:21:02 pm »
+1

This thread got necro'ed and it wasn't about Reno Jackson?  The value of a Hearthstone Tracker doubles on thursday if he doesn't get a yellow outline when he's live.

It's f.ds, of course a thread about Hearthstone trackers is going to get necroed about how The Coin shouldn't be a spell.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2015, 01:31:19 am »
0

This thread got necro'ed and it wasn't about Reno Jackson?  The value of a Hearthstone Tracker doubles on thursday if he doesn't get a yellow outline when he's live.
Yes. I hope they have the sense to recognize how important the visual indicator is on this card.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2015, 07:41:48 am »
0

This thread got necro'ed and it wasn't about Reno Jackson?  The value of a Hearthstone Tracker doubles on thursday if he doesn't get a yellow outline when he's live.
Yes. I hope they have the sense to recognize how important the visual indicator is on this card.

Didn't they already announce that they were specifically NOT going to indicate it?
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2015, 07:50:29 am »
0

Didn't they already announce that they were specifically NOT going to indicate it?
If that's true, they're completely insane.  Surely they realise that anyone running a real Reno Jackson deck is going to be tracking their deck anyway?  Either with a tracker or just with pen and paper.  I mean seriously.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 08:03:56 am »
0

Didn't they already announce that they were specifically NOT going to indicate it?
If that's true, they're completely insane.  Surely they realise that anyone running a real Reno Jackson deck is going to be tracking their deck anyway?  Either with a tracker or just with pen and paper.  I mean seriously.

Liquidhearth's Wing One preview states it, but no source provided: http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/498238-league-of-explorers-card-review-wing-one
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popsofctown

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 12:50:55 pm »
0

Didn't they already announce that they were specifically NOT going to indicate it?
If that's true, they're completely insane.  Surely they realise that anyone running a real Reno Jackson deck is going to be tracking their deck anyway?  Either with a tracker or just with pen and paper.  I mean seriously.

Liquidhearth's Wing One preview states it, but no source provided: http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/498238-league-of-explorers-card-review-wing-one
Pretty sure the source here is Ben Brode's response to a question about Reno at Blizzcon.  The question was something like "Hey Ben, so this new card Reno Jackson heals your hero if there is no more than 1 copy of each card in your deck.  I was wondering if there will be a feature like Hearthstone tracker to help us with it?" and his response was something like, "Well, we're definitely not going to do an entire tracker.  We might talk with development about what some of our options are for a more simple supplement that helps with cards like Reno.  But there definitely isn't anything like that being released as League of Explorers comes out."

I think it's a misinterpretation to assume there will be no yellow outline based on this response, since Ben Brode might have been strictly answering the question, will we get a full tracker/ will we get a similar complex feature like little dots on Reno in your hand, one dot for each duplicate card still clogging up your deck.  The binary simplistic yellow or not is not what the question was about, so much, it was using the increasing complexity of the card design to try to petition for some more tracking features really.  There might be a yellow outline and Ben Brode doesn't even know about it.

Blizz definitely isn't making a conscious design choice to withhold yellow outline.  If they forgot it, or are putting it off because the coding is more complicated than Tinkertown Technician, people will whine and we will surely get it, really. 

Even with the yellow outline, a tracker is a little more useful if you aren't good at tracking your deck on your own.  If there's only 1 dupe left in your deck, hold onto reno and try to heal, if there are 2 dupes left in your deck, fuhgeddaboutit better start hammering their shredders with Spectral Smith to try to stay alive.
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popsofctown

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2015, 02:28:27 am »
0

No yellow outline.  Get to trackin
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Grujah

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2015, 12:38:28 pm »
0

No yellow outline.  Get to trackin

Yup.
I just started using tracker for this reason only.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2015, 12:52:07 pm »
0

If they forgot it, or are putting it off because the coding is more complicated...

No, just no. The card already has to track your deck to determine if the battlecry applies or not. Therefore a yellow board is nothing more than a visual indicator or a calculation that has already been programmed.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2015, 01:05:46 pm »
0

If they forgot it,

No, just no. The card already has to track your deck to determine if the battlecry applies or not. Therefore a yellow board is nothing more than a visual indicator or a calculation that has already been programmed.
Does that help? This is more likely than any kind of coding issue.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2015, 03:20:51 pm »
0

If they forgot it, or are putting it off because the coding is more complicated...

No, just no. The card already has to track your deck to determine if the battlecry applies or not. Therefore a yellow board is nothing more than a visual indicator or a calculation that has already been programmed.
Eh, I wouldn't assume this is the case at all. Whatever part of the code controls colored borders may not have access to the contents of your deck.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2015, 03:33:14 pm »
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Apparently the problem is that the Reno check is more computationally intensive than that for most other cards, and as everything is done server side they can't be sure it wouldn't cause load issues.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2015, 04:08:12 pm »
+1

Apparently the problem is that the Reno check is more computationally intensive than that for most other cards, and as everything is done server side they can't be sure it wouldn't cause load issues.
Yes, somebody associated with Hearthsim did a post on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sv3v8/making_reno_jackson_highlighted_is_much_harder/cx0ord5.

My own intuition, although I don't know anything about Hearthstone's server code, is that checking for duplicates is a little trickier algorithmically than simply checking for a minion that satisfies a certain condition (like BGH does). It's possible to do fast, but they may want to be careful and make sure they have a robust solution before making it live, which seems reasonable.

In the meantime though, no Reno for me. :(
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popsofctown

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2015, 04:30:40 pm »
+1

He's one of the more anti hearthstone cards they've ever made.  Taking a meticulous count of what's in your deck is not a casual way to play.  I think they wanted "Include Reno Jackson only if your decklist has no more than 1 copy of each card", but then this wording was "simpler", but then mechanically is far more intricate/fiddly/complex.

They are so bent on keeping things simple they're making it complicated.  And then naturally the features for a complicated game aren't there.
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2015, 04:56:11 pm »
+1

If you want to play Reno casually you can always just run 30 1-ofs.  That might even be the best way to do it if you want to be super competitive.  Perhaps something like Freeze Mage would want Reno and duplicates, but if you want casual and easy to play you don't choose Freeze Mage.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 05:56:05 am by qmech »
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2015, 04:56:30 pm »
0

If they forgot it, or are putting it off because the coding is more complicated...

No, just no. The card already has to track your deck to determine if the battlecry applies or not. Therefore a yellow board is nothing more than a visual indicator or a calculation that has already been programmed.
Eh, I wouldn't assume this is the case at all. Whatever part of the code controls colored borders may not have access to the contents of your deck.

Thinking about it, the check would have to be run on several deck changing events since deck contents are not a static thing that linearly decrements. Reno's battlecry likely procs on playing the minion. Hidden Torch is just one example of a card that could place a duplicate into the deck; I assume there are several others?
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2015, 05:23:43 pm »
0

Gang up

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2015, 05:24:23 pm »
0

If they forgot it, or are putting it off because the coding is more complicated...

No, just no. The card already has to track your deck to determine if the battlecry applies or not. Therefore a yellow board is nothing more than a visual indicator or a calculation that has already been programmed.
Eh, I wouldn't assume this is the case at all. Whatever part of the code controls colored borders may not have access to the contents of your deck.

Thinking about it, the check would have to be run on several deck changing events since deck contents are not a static thing that linearly decrements. Reno's battlecry likely procs on playing the minion. Hidden Torch is just one example of a card that could place a duplicate into the deck; I assume there are several others?

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2015, 08:53:23 am »
0

Apparently the problem is that the Reno check is more computationally intensive than that for most other cards, and as everything is done server side they can't be sure it wouldn't cause load issues.
Yes, somebody associated with Hearthsim did a post on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sv3v8/making_reno_jackson_highlighted_is_much_harder/cx0ord5.

My own intuition, although I don't know anything about Hearthstone's server code, is that checking for duplicates is a little trickier algorithmically than simply checking for a minion that satisfies a certain condition (like BGH does). It's possible to do fast, but they may want to be careful and make sure they have a robust solution before making it live, which seems reasonable.

In the meantime though, no Reno for me. :(

Difference is that you can calculate BGH on client and you need to call server to calculate Reno (cuz they don't store deck content locally).
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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2015, 03:18:26 pm »
+1

Apparently the problem is that the Reno check is more computationally intensive than that for most other cards, and as everything is done server side they can't be sure it wouldn't cause load issues.
Yes, somebody associated with Hearthsim did a post on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sv3v8/making_reno_jackson_highlighted_is_much_harder/cx0ord5.

My own intuition, although I don't know anything about Hearthstone's server code, is that checking for duplicates is a little trickier algorithmically than simply checking for a minion that satisfies a certain condition (like BGH does). It's possible to do fast, but they may want to be careful and make sure they have a robust solution before making it live, which seems reasonable.

In the meantime though, no Reno for me. :(

Difference is that you can calculate BGH on client and you need to call server to calculate Reno (cuz they don't store deck content locally).

They could, but they don't.  The Hearthstone client does absolutely nothing gameplay-wise other than taking input and displaying the results.
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Grujah

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Re: Hearthstone's tracker problem
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2015, 08:18:20 pm »
0

Apparently the problem is that the Reno check is more computationally intensive than that for most other cards, and as everything is done server side they can't be sure it wouldn't cause load issues.
Yes, somebody associated with Hearthsim did a post on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sv3v8/making_reno_jackson_highlighted_is_much_harder/cx0ord5.

My own intuition, although I don't know anything about Hearthstone's server code, is that checking for duplicates is a little trickier algorithmically than simply checking for a minion that satisfies a certain condition (like BGH does). It's possible to do fast, but they may want to be careful and make sure they have a robust solution before making it live, which seems reasonable.

In the meantime though, no Reno for me. :(

Difference is that you can calculate BGH on client and you need to call server to calculate Reno (cuz they don't store deck content locally).

They could, but they don't.  The Hearthstone client does absolutely nothing gameplay-wise other than taking input and displaying the results.

That's the best way to do it, imho. You want server to do all the game stuff and client just to show things.
Storing deck content locally could lead to people hacking the game to get that content, for example.
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