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Author Topic: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four  (Read 31947 times)

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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2012, 01:52:50 am »
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Game 3: So I'm pretty sure Young Witch/Silver HAS to be better than YW/Men. Like, you need the money eventually, right? You're going to want at least a single silver. And it's better to grab it early. Maybe Mens on the second reshuffle. And I suppose Moneylender/Men is possible. But to get that forge, you'll need some money anyway. And you can also draw the Menagerie pretty meaningfully dead 1st reshuffle.
I have to disagree here. Without any really powerful 5, having a single silver at the first shuffle doesn't buy you much. If you're really lucky you can get a gold out of it (which you did), but most of the time, it won't really get you anything great. So you might as well get menagerie to stay (at least in probability) in the better position in terms of curses, which it does in 2 ways: decreasing the chance YW falls to turn 5, and giving you a chance to block a curse. Then you can add 2 cards which get you money in the second shuffle, which will set you up to get gold/forge.
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jonts26

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2012, 02:10:26 am »
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I'm not sure menagerie actually decreases probability of YW missing the reshuffle, because the YW draws 2 cards. You increase the chance that drawing it turn 4 results in triggering a reshuffle when you play it. That said, I'm not sure it's a huge deal, but something to consider.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2012, 09:40:04 am »
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I'm not sure menagerie actually decreases probability of YW missing the reshuffle, because the YW draws 2 cards. You increase the chance that drawing it turn 4 results in triggering a reshuffle when you play it. That said, I'm not sure it's a huge deal, but something to consider.
Don't play the menagerie in turn 4 if you have it in hand with the YW. And if you can get them both turn 3, it's a big boon.
I'm still quite confident of getting the silver first though.

jonts26

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2012, 10:42:06 am »
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What if you draw just menagerie on turn 3. Is the correct play to not play it? I would think it depends on how much money you drew, if you needed another copper for your buy or not.
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StickaRicka

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2012, 04:56:40 am »
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Any chance the final // bronze-match will be streamed live? That would be AWESOME =)! Don't care about sound - though wandering's comments are must-hear for learning (and for great fun) =).

Best of luck to all of you.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2012, 11:25:08 pm »
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Any chance the final // bronze-match will be streamed live? That would be AWESOME =)! Don't care about sound - though wandering's comments are must-hear for learning (and for great fun) =).

Best of luck to all of you.
If there's a bronze match, I'll stream it live.
...is there going to be?

Also, has anyone talked about the final match yet? I'd love to be able to have a group in the lobby while it's going on, discussing the sets.

olneyce

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2012, 12:12:58 am »
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Any chance the final // bronze-match will be streamed live? That would be AWESOME =)! Don't care about sound - though wandering's comments are must-hear for learning (and for great fun) =).

Best of luck to all of you.
If there's a bronze match, I'll stream it live.
...is there going to be?

Also, has anyone talked about the final match yet? I'd love to be able to have a group in the lobby while it's going on, discussing the sets.
We're tentatively planning on playing Saturday evening (Pacific time), but need to coordinate with the organizers about distributing the sets, etc.

I have no idea how to stream things live.  Does it require special software?
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theory

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2012, 08:25:32 am »
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rrenaud and I (mostly I, I think he's close to done) are still finishing up the analysis of all the submitted sets.

Whatever time works for you two will probably work for one of us.  Given that I'm now in London and rrenaud is still in New York, I'm sure we can find a compatible time.

I approve of WW's idea of set discussion in the lobby.  Maybe this forum needs a chat room.

I do think WW and RJ should play a Bronze match.  It will affect seeding for the next DS year-end tournament.
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DStu

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2012, 08:28:36 am »
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I approve of WW's idea of set discussion in the lobby.  Maybe this forum needs a chat room.

Or maybe promote the #councilroom@freenode? Aren't there Websiteplugins for IRC? Thought I have seen something like that...
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theory

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2012, 08:32:08 am »
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That's right, I keep forgetting about that!  We could link to it more, or also look into integrating it somehow ... though I don't know where it would go.
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Fabian

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2012, 09:37:22 am »
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There was even actual Dominion talk in that channel yesterday, which isn't very common in its current state :) Would be fun to see a dedicated dominionstrategy IRC channel though, for sure (be it that one or a new one).
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RisingJaguar

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2012, 11:44:49 am »
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I do think WW and RJ should play a Bronze match.  It will affect seeding for the next DS year-end tournament.
Yeah I just PMed WW about that today so when he gets back to me, we'll let you know.  I figure it would be best to have it right before or at least on the same day.  But I"m currently somewhat busy on saturday (the day of the finals) so we may not be able to. 
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olneyce

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2012, 07:55:52 pm »
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rrenaud and I (mostly I, I think he's close to done) are still finishing up the analysis of all the submitted sets.

Whatever time works for you two will probably work for one of us.  Given that I'm now in London and rrenaud is still in New York, I'm sure we can find a compatible time.

I approve of WW's idea of set discussion in the lobby.  Maybe this forum needs a chat room.

I do think WW and RJ should play a Bronze match.  It will affect seeding for the next DS year-end tournament.
So we are planning to play at 6 PM Pacific time on Saturday (which is 11 AM on Sunday for manzi).  I can't imagine that's a good time for London, but New York probably?  He said he could go earlier by a couple hours if necessary.
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Kirian

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2012, 08:41:02 pm »
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rrenaud and I (mostly I, I think he's close to done) are still finishing up the analysis of all the submitted sets.

Whatever time works for you two will probably work for one of us.  Given that I'm now in London and rrenaud is still in New York, I'm sure we can find a compatible time.

I approve of WW's idea of set discussion in the lobby.  Maybe this forum needs a chat room.

I do think WW and RJ should play a Bronze match.  It will affect seeding for the next DS year-end tournament.
So we are planning to play at 6 PM Pacific time on Saturday (which is 11 AM on Sunday for manzi).  I can't imagine that's a good time for London, but New York probably?  He said he could go earlier by a couple hours if necessary.

That's 9 PM in NY, and 2 AM in London.  I doubt moving the time even three hours earlier makes it a "good" time for Europe.
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olneyce

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2012, 09:18:27 pm »
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rrenaud and I (mostly I, I think he's close to done) are still finishing up the analysis of all the submitted sets.

Whatever time works for you two will probably work for one of us.  Given that I'm now in London and rrenaud is still in New York, I'm sure we can find a compatible time.

I approve of WW's idea of set discussion in the lobby.  Maybe this forum needs a chat room.

I do think WW and RJ should play a Bronze match.  It will affect seeding for the next DS year-end tournament.
So we are planning to play at 6 PM Pacific time on Saturday (which is 11 AM on Sunday for manzi).  I can't imagine that's a good time for London, but New York probably?  He said he could go earlier by a couple hours if necessary.

That's 9 PM in NY, and 2 AM in London.  I doubt moving the time even three hours earlier makes it a "good" time for Europe.
Yeah, having the two players be a third of the world away means any workable time for us likely is very bad for someone at the other point of the triangle.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2012, 09:33:43 pm »
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rrenaud and I (mostly I, I think he's close to done) are still finishing up the analysis of all the submitted sets.

Whatever time works for you two will probably work for one of us.  Given that I'm now in London and rrenaud is still in New York, I'm sure we can find a compatible time.

I approve of WW's idea of set discussion in the lobby.  Maybe this forum needs a chat room.

I do think WW and RJ should play a Bronze match.  It will affect seeding for the next DS year-end tournament.
So we are planning to play at 6 PM Pacific time on Saturday (which is 11 AM on Sunday for manzi).  I can't imagine that's a good time for London, but New York probably?  He said he could go earlier by a couple hours if necessary.

That's 9 PM in NY, and 2 AM in London.  I doubt moving the time even three hours earlier makes it a "good" time for Europe.
Yeah, having the two players be a third of the world away means any workable time for us likely is very bad for someone at the other point of the triangle.
Probably not so bad on the East Coast US though.

WanderingWinder

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2012, 09:44:31 pm »
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We're planning on playing the Bronze match on Friday (that's tomorrow when and where I post this) at 8 PM eastern time (that's 1 AM Saturday GMT).
I'll be streaming live (well, I think like a 15 second up to a couple minute delay or something, but live-ish) here: http://www.livestream.com/wanderingwinder

RisingJaguar

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2012, 09:18:10 pm »
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http://www.livestream.com/wanderingwinder

Bronze matches are completed, you can going ahead and watch WW's commentary of these games... They were really fun matches at least on my part.  I'll be posting logs and such afterwards, but I don't want to spoil the result =)

Edit: There were a couple extra matches afterwards as well... I think just about every match is worth watching
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WanderingWinder

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2012, 09:46:47 pm »
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Pay particular attention to games 3 and 4 where... I get devastatingly outplayed. I think the rest were decently close. Actually 3 was close too, but it didn't feel like it should have been.

Fabian

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2012, 09:58:19 pm »
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It was interesting to watch a match live, not knowing how it would end. It was basically like playing, except you don't make the decisions you want to make :)

I too think games 3 and 4 were cool and fun to watch. RJ played very well imo, I agree with WW that the result in game 3 was closer than it appeared like it would be.
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painted_cow

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2012, 10:46:03 pm »
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Haha funny games, I really laughed my ass of in G3 and G4 :D Those commentary before about Tactician and Pirate Ship and then get crushed by a decent engine. Well played RJ!
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timchen

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2012, 12:03:52 am »
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Somehow I can't find G5...

Here are my two cents:
G2: I'll play the same as WW. An earlier Margrave for me though. Didn't really understand how come this would result in a loss...
G3: I never think FV+envoy+money is really of much good (better than a single envoy anyway) but judging from the result maybe I am mistaken. Ignoring ghost ship IMO is a huge mistake (even more than ignoring salvager openings)
G4: In my experience pirate ship is surprisingly good against Jacks. With enablers there is no question.
G6: Is remake+BM really of much good? With pure BM I can only thought of it as marginal, but maybe I am mistaken. With Hoard understandably it can be a bit better.

From my experience in my series WW is a lot more accomplished than what is shown here... maybe I didn't get to play those engine games?
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RisingJaguar

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2012, 12:41:59 am »
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Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/27/game-20120127-174513-b5103d50.html

G2: I avoid all margrave attacks, SUPER LUCKY.  And yes i chose the wrong strat. 
G5: Fun game, I'll post the all of my thoughts later, but this was a close match.  My last turn is questionable. 
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kn1tt3r

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2012, 05:46:24 am »
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Post-Bronze 1:
In situations like this I often wonder whether during end game you want the Border Village/Duchy at $6-$7 or just the Duchy. I always avoided the Village in straight money games like this one and just bought the Duchy, espcially with big drawers like Council Room. Now you both picked up the Village here, so I'm not sure any more.
Furthermore, I wonder how Apprentice would have worked against this strategy, which is actually great with Border Villages.
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DG

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Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2012, 06:30:08 am »
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Quote
From my experience in my series WW is a lot more accomplished than what is shown here... maybe I didn't get to play those engine games?

I'm guessing that with the commentary running he might be doing less pre-kingdom analysis than usual. I could be wrong ...

I'm also guessing that RJ was using mandarins to set up a tactician for the following turn in game 3. It's not often we get to see the mandarin as a genuinely good card.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 06:50:34 am by DG »
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