Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All

Author Topic: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four  (Read 32535 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2012, 12:25:48 pm »
0

Out of curiosity, when should we expect the last two interviews?

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3594
  • Respect: +6034
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2012, 01:07:10 pm »
0

I want to post manzi's before yours.  But he is still getting back to me.  He says by the middle of this week.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3594
  • Respect: +6034
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2012, 12:09:37 pm »
0

manzi's interview is posted. 
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2012, 03:43:53 pm »
0

My interview is also posted, if anyone was interested.
And our match has been played. olneyce won, 4-2. I neglected to copy the logs (this will be fixed later). Video from my end will be up in a few minutes at
Commentary will follow in the coming days, after I give myself some time to be objective.

Geronimoo

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1047
  • Respect: +843
    • View Profile
    • Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2012, 05:23:30 pm »
0

I don't get why you'd want to play without the point counter. It seems to be taking up a lot of your thinking time while it's really not interesting strategically. However, it does add to the suspense for people watching.

I like how you sucked in the first game and admitted it. People should realize that at the +40 level we're still far from playing the game optimally and mistakes are plentiful.

I feel you got a little unlucky in some of the games or olneyce got lucky. Don't know. Too bad you're out because the vids are great fun.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2012, 05:30:27 pm »
0

I played without the point counter because I counted on my ability to focus and remember, though in retrospect that's prolly a slight mistake because that part of mah brain seems to have atrophied slightly. Yeah, I really sucked it up in game 1. He didn't play the optimal strategy either, I'm fairly sure, and I got slammed for doming to me realisation both too late and out of position.
There's 3 games in this match I'm really upset about, 2 where I think I got outplayed, 2 where luck I feel bit me, at least 2 where I think my strategy was clearly better... I still haven't made real analyses though.
And the videos should keep coming, though I need to concentrate on making them high quality. I'm churning out lots right now that aren't near as good, but I think that's a) 'cause I'm doing lots, and b) because it really helps for making a good video if I have someone pretty good to play against. Nobody really likes seeing a smooth Smithy/BM cruise. That's also probably bad for my own play level....

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2012, 05:40:36 pm »
0

On the plus side, this means my kingdoms have a chance at being used in the finals.
Yes, I have shifty eyes right now...

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2012, 06:57:46 pm »
0

Logs and comments on the games.  I recorded video, but I'm having difficulties chopping it into pieces.  Will get that fixed soon hopefully.

Game 1 olneyce 52 – 27 Wandering Winder
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-113746-9e7a2452.html
Key Cards: Hunting Party, King’s Court, Conspirator, Smugglers
In this game, my draws played me more than the other way around.  I hit $7 on turn 4 and felt obliged to take a King’s Court.  On my next three turns I got $5 and a Hunting Party, then $4 and a Conspirator, and finally $7 and another King’s Court.  That was some pretty good shuffle-luck – since those were precisely the pieces that I wanted.  From that point on, I pretty much hit way above $8 and bought a Province, or hit less than $8, and picked up a couple pieces to try and maintain my advantage.  I bought Great Halls as a potential tiebreaker – and as another action that I could King’s Court if necessary.  I think the only particularly clever thing I did was to snag a Smugglers on turn 16, which I was then able to King’s Court two turns later to get three Duchies.

Game 2 Wandering Winder 85 – 51 olneyce
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-114631-22a9e607.html
Key Cards: Wharf
Nothing particularly complicated here.  I tried to get fancy here, and bought a bunch of terminals on a board with no +actions.  Then, realizing that simple Wharf/Big Money was going to dominate me, I tried to get some Wharves, too.  But you know how that ends: my Wharves drew my Grand Markets dead, and my already significant deficit only continued to grow.

Game 3 olneyce 34 – 20 Wandering Winder
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-115604-815a0f03.html
Key Cards: Young Witch, Menagerie (bane), Forge
I think I played this one pretty well, though maybe people can comment on whether I just got lucky.  I bought Menageries far earlier than him.  My goal was to get some curses into his deck to slow him down, buy single copies of Silver and Gold, and then get a Forge to clean out as much as possible from my deck.  I was hoping for a synergy there – use the Forge to trash a bit, which will make it more likely my Menageries work as super-Labs, which in turn will give me bigger hands that I can Forge into useful parts.  On turn 15 this all came together, and my deck was pretty well set.  This game is also notable for having Tournament on the board and both of us basically ignoring it.

Game 4 Wandering Winder 41 - 41 olneyce
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-120545-c281283a.html
Key Cards: Tournament (Followers), Scheme, Baron, Lighthouse
A Tournament game, and a pretty interesting one, I think.  He went for the BM approach to getting Provinces, opening Silver/Courtyard, while I opted for Barons.  He got a Province on turn 6, while I got them on 7 and 8.  He won the first Tournament and picked up a Followers, which he then kept in his hand for a significant chunk of the rest of the game with Schemes.  Meanwhile, I was using Schemes to keep Stables on top to let myself draw a bunch.  I took a Trusy Steed on turn 13, hoping to use the +actions to play two Barons.  I did it on that turn, but actually only ever saw the Steed once more in the game.  I had four Provinces by turn 13, and spent the rest of the game trying to maintain enough parity with the other green cards to keep him from passing me. As we raced for Estates it became increasingly clear to me that his Followers giving out Curses was going to drag me further and further backward – and I was increasingly unlikely to hit $8 to get the final Province. 

I think we had both lost track of the score a bit though, because he ended the game with us tied, and thus lost as the first player – in a circumstance where he could have dealt out another Curse on the next turn.  I actually thought I was still ahead by a point or two so was surprised to find out I only won on the tiebreaker.  I’d certainly be curious to hear from people about the endgame.  What mistakes did we both make?  What should I have been doing once I had compiled a lead in order to block him out?

Game 5 Wandering Winder 34 – 24 olneyce
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-121352-7506532e.html
Key Cards: University, Smithy, Cartographer, Alchemist
He went for a pretty straightforward money game, buying only a Moneylender and two Merchant Ships.  I went for a massively complex engine – using Universities to gain Smithies, Cartographers, and Hamlets.  My engine got humming pretty well by turn 11, but I just didn’t have quite enough money to get good use from it.  Despite playing 15 cards on turn 14 I still only had $12 to spend.  Even worse, I didn’t have any drawing cards in my following hand, so when he bought the penultimate Province, I couldn’t do anything about it and he then finished off the game.  I'd like to think a better engine could win the game here, but is it just too complex to take on his more direct strategy?

Game 6 olneyce 35 – 34 Wandering Winder
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-122338-cb7b00ef.html
Key Cards: Rabble, Salvager, (Walled) Village, Caravan
We used identical starting hands, which meant we were both stuck with 5/2 on a board where it was not ideal.  I opted for a Salvager rather than a Rabble, hoping to trim my deck a bit and get some bang for my buck.  In a change from several of our previous games, I went for simplicity while he constructed an engine with villages and Rabbles.  I used my Salvager liberally, trashing my only Rabble on turn 11 to get a Province and my second Gold on turn 14 to do the same, and also trashing a couple Provinces to hold onto my lead. 

Once I got my fourth Province (with one trashed), I knew I simply had to keep him from getting too many of the other green cards to cut into my lead.  Then, I was able to trash another Province, guaranteeing me a 12-point advantage there.  If I could get three Duchies, he wouldn’t be able to catch me no matter what.  Unfortunately, he bought the final three Duchies, giving him a 6/2 split there – effectively neutralizing my Province lead.  So we started Estate-dancing, and I was able to one ahead every turn.  My real hope was to draw my Salvager with a Province, to trash it and finish out the game.  But absent that, I knew that if could hold onto my one-Estate advantage, I would win even if he bought the final Province.  Which is precisely what happened. On turn 22 I bought the final Estate – and then had to hold my breath through several more turns to find out if I had kept track of all the numbers correctly. 

A very hard-fought set of games, with some pretty interesting components.  The first player won every game except for the 4th one, which was decided on the tiebreaker.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:19:26 pm by olneyce »
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1466
  • Respect: +522
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2012, 07:04:56 pm »
0

I think olneyce has the score backwards on game 5.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1466
  • Respect: +522
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2012, 07:12:22 pm »
0

I thought Game 4 was the most interesting one in the series, even though they lost track of the count they played very different strategies and I'm impressed with the way the differing strategies played out. Though I must say I'm surprised WW never picked up a Baron once he had that Followers in his hand and his deck started to clutter up with Estates. He mentioned it in the video, but never actually bought one. Not sure how much it would have made a difference in the end, but maybe if he'd opened with one and then shifted into his other strategy, but that might have given him too much terminal collision.
Logged

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2012, 07:20:00 pm »
0

I think olneyce has the score backwards on game 5.
Yep, oops!
Logged

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2012, 07:54:19 pm »
0

My videos are uploaded here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/olneyce

No sound though.  I'm not smart enough to comment and try to keep track of things for these tournament games.

It's really interesting to watch these games from the opponent's perspective.  For example, I do like my Young Witch/Menagerie play in the third game, but there were a couple hard-luck moments for WW's draw there which were not apparent from my side.
Logged

chwhite

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1065
  • Respect: +436
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2012, 10:09:16 pm »
0

I think Young Witch/Menagerie is a sensible opening here... I would have seriously considered opening Moneylender/Menagerie, possibly not even buying Young Witch at all (though I guess I'd probably have to get one and go for Moneylender on turns 3-4 instead).  There are all the elements for a powerful draw-your-deck Menagerie engine here, and I would have built it ASAP, trusting that I could use the Bane power to avoid more than a couple curses, and then use Forge and Tournament to transition into a stronger endgame.  WW didn't have the best of luck in this game, but I really think that not getting at least one Menagerie before the second reshuffle, and ignoring Moneylender entirely, was a huge mistake.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 10:26:39 pm by chwhite »
Logged
To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1112
  • Respect: +773
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2012, 03:46:41 am »
0

About YW / Menagerie, I'm not sure. A curse on turn 3 can be devastating, but menagerie (at the begin) don't help to get the 5$ cards.

I think Wandering Winder made a big mistake ignoring baron in the fourth game.
Baron was hugely powerful : The presence of Scheme, Stables, Followers and courtyard helped a lot. Also, with a bit of luck baron help to get an early province, to use effectively with Tournament.

For the game 6 : Watching WW's video, we see how he was unlucky. All his golds appeared at the wrong time…
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3594
  • Respect: +6034
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2012, 05:52:41 am »
0

Nice match. 
Logged

Axxle

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
  • Most Valuable Serial Killer
  • Respect: +1950
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2012, 03:49:01 pm »
0

How is everyone doing on their DominionStrategy.com Championships Playoff pools?  ;D

Excellent match, I think I'm going to put a lot of what I saw to good use.
Logged
We might be from all over the world, but "we all talk this one language  : +1 card + 1 action +1 buy , gain , discard, trash... " - RTT

dan11295

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2012, 04:58:08 pm »
0

Game 1: Fairly obvious the Smugglers really burned WW. 2 of first 3 times it was in his had Olneyce bought nothing for him to smuggle.

Game 3: If Menagerie wasn't the bane its definitely not a good open. But as a bane where the only curse trasher is Forge, its much more viable.
Logged

manzi

  • 2012 World Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +7
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2012, 11:25:54 pm »
+1

Semi Final No.2

manzi defeats Rising Jaguar for 4-3

logs and movies will be posted later (I missed some logs, so they will be poted from counsil room).

thanks for a game.
Logged

RisingJaguar

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 527
  • Respect: +184
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2012, 04:03:48 am »
0

As reported earlier by Manzi, he beat me 4-3 in a very fun set where I play brilliantly at times, and not so most of the other.  Overall I'm happy with the way I've played aside from the last game. 

I'll post the logs quickly for people to look at and I'll make a video going over each of the logs (the recordings I created were corrupted unfortunately).  Quick thoughts are that I let 2 games really slip away from me where I thought I had the superior overall strategy but overlooked some troubles.  With that said, Manzi was very consistent and deserves this win.  The videos should be ready some time.

Edit: replaced with council room logs
1: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-183816-ff9e0951.html
2: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-185043-65fc5f5b.html
3: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-190237-03191a0c.html
4: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-192236-6de9af44.html
5: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-193056-e8685ab4.html
6: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-195846-98e371b6.html
7: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-201220-c78c8cda.html
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 12:04:09 pm by RisingJaguar »
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2012, 02:18:18 pm »
0

Brief comments on my match
First: how is 'olneyce' pronounced exactly?
Okay, games.
Game 1: I dreadfully blow it. Smugglers is really bad. Silk Road looked shiny to me. But well, HP+Cutpurse is a baseline, I suspect just HP+Conspirator is even much stronger, and I don't know that you want KC. Pretty sure you don't want gold. Heck, you might not even want silver. But it's a little bit hard to sim. Um, that put me in a little bad shape. The early KC and connecting it so often really didn't help me. So I was pretty much already dead by the time he triple smuggled duchy.
Game 2: I thought about Haggler/GM. And Salvager can probably help that. But I hate salvager as an opener. And I just think that's a little too cute to reliably work. And slow probably. BM/Wharf is really darn strong. And gold is not that much worse than GM. There were some later decisions, like me double wharfing on $10, that would normally be interesting, but... I think the game was already fairly well decided by then.
Game 3: So I'm pretty sure Young Witch/Silver HAS to be better than YW/Men. Like, you need the money eventually, right? You're going to want at least a single silver. And it's better to grab it early. Maybe Mens on the second reshuffle. And I suppose Moneylender/Men is possible. But to get that forge, you'll need some money anyway. And you can also draw the Menagerie pretty meaningfully dead 1st reshuffle. Of course, he got like the perfect luck for his opening (well, to highlight it anyway). His men allows him to hit the YW turn 4, hitting me with a curse before my second reshuffle (1st turn advantage!), and I miss mine until the next reshuffle. And then he's able to block him, so it's quite a while before I'm able to hit him. Even so, it was a while before it was clear to me that I was losing (though probably I already was by the time he blocks my first YW, pretty massive % of the time). Well, I think his opening was wrong, but he was very likely to outplay me later anyway I guess. Still pretty upset about this one.
Game 4: Yeah, the tournament game. Well, I was really upset at him being able to get 3 provinces by the end of turn 9. That's massive. Like, actually baron works nicely with stables (which also goes well with tournament). His strategy was sound. Maybe better than mine. But he should not expect to have THREE provinces that early. Probably on average, a bit more than one. Well, I'm able to hit tournament first, but... well you know how it goes. It's hard to bring myself to look through the meat of this one. Anyway, it gets to the end and I haven't kept track of score well enough. But I think I was pretty well lost anyway. Here's what has to happen for me to win, assuming I didn't end it when I did. 1)I need him to not play lighthouse next turn. 2) I need him to not get to the last province before I do. 3 and most important, I need him to not be able to get the lighthouses out before I get that last province. Well, I just don't think that's all that likely. My deck is pretty clogged. Still, it's possible....
Game 5: Yeah, here I think maybe moneylender isn't right? I'm not sure. But I do get a little bit of a bad break in getting money bunched up all wrong. Check out turns 12, 13, 14... Well, his engine did a LOT better than I thought it could. But he doesn't have all that much money, and it's a touch hard for him to get extra buys or be able to make use of them. And even though the Cartographers make it pretty reliable, well... I can't think it was actually that much more reliable than my money at that point anyway. My gut tells me it's less, even. Well, I think this was actually not so close as it looked, and shouldn't have been as close as it was. But he played the engine a lot better than I thought possible.
Game 6: Yeah, well, I had a little bit of problems with stuff colliding. The last few turns before 50% VP, I thought I was drawing very poorly. And I probably slightly misbuilt the engine. Moreover, he got the lucky side of the coinflip, a little bit of luck in getting the lead early. Things fell well for him. Not that that should actually be too uncommon. Maybe 40% of the time he gets this lucky, 35% slightly less lucky, 25% significantly less lucky. I probably get luckier than I did maybe 65% of the time. Well, I think my strategy is slightly better than his, but with the lead, and first turn... well salvager is deadly good there for him. Yeah, once he got that lead, I think he was in pretty good shape. And his strategy took advantage of my rabbles fairly well. So I don't actually begrudge him this one all that much.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4368
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2012, 02:52:40 pm »
0

Okay, some comments on the other semi-final:
Game 1: Wow, I'm surprised! Loan? Loan, really? Both of you? If you're going loan here, it's got to be for some kind of multi-bridge thing with bazaars, bridges, and caravans. Which neither of you then went for. I'm confused. Why did you open loan?
I would have opened Bridge/Silver and played fairly well BM. As I see it, there are a couple options. You can pick up an extra bridge or two at points, and bazaars at 5, or you can get treasuries at 5, build a pretty strong economy fairly quick, and then blitz out your green somewhere in the low teens. I don't think I'd touch shanty town. It doesn't work well with caravan , for one thing, if you've got any terminals at all. And basically the slight risk of that just makes silver better. Oh, and definitely no double caravan on turn 6....
Game 2: Wow, Oracle/Ironworks is gutsy, and then manzi is able to parlay all his highways at the right times to grab more with his ironworks. Like perfect luck. And I think too risky. Actually, I'm not in love with ironworks at all here, but if I were doing it, it would be to try to build a big ole Farming Village/Oracle engine. Which seems plausible at any rate. But more likely, I'd just go oracle+money here, which, especially with ventures, I expect to be quite strong. Thing is, highway isn't better than peddler here except to ironworks, and that's not so so plausible to get to go off very consistently. And oracle/BM, especially with the venture help, is fairly formidable.
Game 3: Whaaaa??? Transmute/Vineyards? BM/Island is pretty good, ya know. But more, I'm left thinking that you were either both without much of a plan, or that you changed it partway through, or... something. I expect that fairly well ignoring the potions is the way to go here. Islands, maybe a pawn eventually, Royal Seals and gold. Well, it's not flashy but it's not bad.
Game 4: Woodcutter almost has to be better than silver as an opener here. But more importantly, is it worth it to go for those apothecaries? Maybe it is. I wouldn't have, probably, but maybe it is. Forge I have little faith in, though. Again, I don't play it so well, so I could be wrong. If I did go apothecary, I'd probably go with a combo 'cary/IGG rush, wanting to pick up a couple provinces. Hmm, not sure here...
Game 5: You can go Hoard/Salvager here for sure. Haggler has a place in those decks. Or you can go Margrave/BM, in which case I think Gold>Hoard early. Actually Gold>Hoard there for most of the game there. I do not like mixing salvager with Margrave, and I don't like market here like at all.
Game 6: I do not understand this game. Will comment on it later I guess.
Game 7: Well, there are lots of things possible here, but I'm not opening village. And I'm not going grand envoy - there's too much else available. Probably something along the lines of what manzi did is about right here. I have a love for island, but with remake, you probably forego it until late. A little bit of money, then pick up lots of villages and some envoys and roll. There's a lot of skill in the mid-game there, picking stuff up to keep your engine running smoothing while getting victory, too.

RisingJaguar

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 527
  • Respect: +184
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2012, 03:12:32 pm »
0

I will be posting videos rather soon, but quickly to reply to WW

Game 1: Yes, I didn't realize bazaar was there or more precisely, that kind of super turn.  Both our mistakes here. Edit: Both of us made mistakes here
Game 2: In short, Luck was against me.
3: I had a better vineyard plans but with his instant potions made me panic and dump my plan.  My fault
4: missed trasition to 'cary/IGG
6: was weird...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 03:26:40 pm by RisingJaguar »
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4070
  • Respect: +2611
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2012, 03:44:46 pm »
0

I've run a simulator over a few of the games so I'll give an answer to some of the points raised

WW vs Olneyce #5: The simulator likes smithy/merchant ship. Not much advantage trashing copper here.

WW vs Olneyce #6: Salvaging out the estates is usually good in a rabble games
RJ vs Manzi #1: This is actually a more difficult deck to create than it looks, by my standards anyway. It's easy to mess up the loan or not get enough income. The simulator can find good success following Rising Jaguar's strategy so it's probably sound (given that the simulator won't play it as well a human).
RJ vs Manzi #4: Shame the simulator can't look into this one. I'd like to see whether smithy + iggs is simple and stupid enough to work.
Logged

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2012, 03:53:32 pm »
0

First: how is 'olneyce' pronounced exactly?
Yeah, I never really thought about people needing to actually understand my isotropic name.  It's my last name and first two initials, the format my college used for email accounts.  Which I just started using as my all-purpose login for stuff.  So it's pronounced Olney C E. 

I mostly agree with your other comments about the games.  All in all, I think there was only two clear strategic mistakes - by each of us in the first two games.  After that, I think we both chose strategies that were within 55/45 of each other, though you're likely right that I went down slightly worse roads.  In 5 I went for the engine that was probably a marginal loser, and in game 6 the reverse might have happened.  Though the engine in Game 6 is very likely better than the one I went for in Game 5.

I am positive that my strength is about mid-game play once I've committed to a strategy, even if I can't always spot the optimal strategy.  I think that means I tend to have a better chance of capitalizing on luck than other players might?  Or that might just be a rationalization. 

Anyways, there is no doubt that I had luck on my side over the course of the match - and the extent to which I can take credit for maximizing what luck offered to me can be an open question.
Logged

RisingJaguar

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 527
  • Respect: +184
    • View Profile
Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2012, 04:50:08 pm »
0

1: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-183816-ff9e0951.html
2: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-185043-65fc5f5b.html
3: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-190237-03191a0c.html
4: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-192236-6de9af44.html
5: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-193056-e8685ab4.html
6: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-195846-98e371b6.html
7: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120121-201220-c78c8cda.html

Videoes were taking longer to make/upload/all that, so I'll just post my things up here. Sorry for not having the videos.  My commentary is horrible anyways =)

Game 1: Again, Bazzar/bridges/loan megaturn makes some sense here but I didn't quite notice it tbh.  The lack of +cards makes it a really tough sell though as it would be hard to get 5-7 Bridges together.  Other then that, I think I made 'optimal' (for my strategy) decisions.  Early $3 buy was horrible for him.  Harvest buy was horrible, never use it to my last turn.  I'm skeptical about his $6 bridge on MT9 (Manzi's Turn 9).  I understand it but gold is better here? I hit a snag with my money but manage to get the last province in time.  Honestly not a special game, first turn basically won this for me.

Game 2: We eliminate cursing games (mountebank/IGG) and go for highway shenanigans.  I think oracle was risky, but I can see its merit.  It help grabs the early $5 probably just as well as silver? Either way, I thought i was doing well at T4, with him causing a reshuffle to get his highway.  He then gets 6 of the next 7 highways and I don't really make any poor choices.  Spoiler alert: he wins.  I'm pretty upset after this game, going same strategy and getting obliterated feels horrible.  I tried to go vault BM but that wasn't going to help me.  Also, trying some sort of scheme/vault would let him get 10 highways, and that would be even worse.

Game 3: We both make this a vineyards game.  I'm surprised he opens potion.  I hit some really bad luck (in my mind) to get island/4coppers then island skipped by loan.  I thought that was stupid.  Transmute play was interesting, and I followed him.  Still think if I got 2/3 early islands and set aside my estates, my deck would've been superior but the first island missed and left that plan.  Btw, my last turn I was actually trapped I think.  If i transmute anything, I go from 12 to 11 actions losing 3 points.  He also had a potion/transmute in hand, so he could've ended the game. 

Game 4: My plan was to do something similar to painted_cow in an early game and use apothecary to get to 7/forge to trash.  In short, I played close to optimally with 1 major flaw.  How did I not notice IGG produces copper is a GOOD thing is beyond me (with apothecaries in play).  I'm an idiot. I should have bought out the IGGs instead of golding.  Woodcutter should've easily been used by Manzi to start, there's no reason not to, especially since alchemy cards in play.  But I was the bigger idiot, just not getting the last 3 IGGs.  If I did to this though, I'm sure I win a good chunk of the time.  (yes this would be hard to simulate...a lot of judgements made)

Game 5: Margrave/BM vs. Salvager/BM with hoards.  My margraves get some messed up reshuffling... First time around (T9) to play it, i trigger reshuffle.  Next time around (which was awhile T14), they collide and cause the reshuffle! I was so annoyed here.  Mixing salvager/Margrave was not good either although he also hits some weird salvager luck too.  He trashes two copper but 1 estate? That's gotta be on the lower side of luck.  I considered some sort of haggler for market/conspirator but without a $3 cantrip or trash, that would be a bad idea. 

Game 6: I don't even know how to begin this, my favourite game.  The game really changed when scheme was introduced as bane card.  Should bane card be shown before? I don't mind but wow that really changed things.  But peddler was now a really viable option and young witch looks dead.  I don't understand scheme/warehouse opening... but it works out for him, as he gets to trash a lot more stuff.  We trashed equally, but he has 2 more actions at turn 6.  That's when the game really changed again, embargoing peddlers.  I only did this because I was behind and was now more towards general big money.  Next turn I get Develop to remove the remake, i figure it was useless now, and torturer/silver seem like a good idea (i had like no money in my deck). 

Now my deck is in pretty good shape.  I have a torturer (hand size is huge with so many warehouses) and a thin deck with money to come.  He smartly embargoes provinces to slow me down, which it does.  Those curses are really hurting my deck.  Once the battle is 3-1 provinces, I embargoing provinces.  His deck was incredibly thin at that point and needed to be slowed down.  With that said, we start racing for duchies.  He wins 5-3 and cuts the lead drastically that i previously had. 

At turn 17, I make mistake after mistake... With duchies gone, curses winding down, provinces double embargoed, it can quickly be a three piles game.  Instead I decide to buy gold? I should've easily gone for estates to end it there.  I proceed to on T21.  Manzi picks up enough for a province on T22, but decides against it by going estate.  Not sure why, he would've tied me and provinces would be 'un-embargoed'. Although I do get 8 next turn, so maybe it was the right move. On T23 when I buy the final estate, he can't win.  He would've lost on turns.   

Never had so many times where the strategy drastically changes.  Scheme shows up, I embargo peddlers.  He embargoes provinces.  I double embargo provinces.  There was a lot to process in this one game alone.  Maybe it affected my thinking for the next game because...

Game 7: I don't know what I was thinking.  Oops? Despite that, if I were to build a similar engine, his would've been better regardless.  So I feel like he wins regardless.  Congrads to him.  He definitely played well and more consistently.  I tried searching for major mistakes, but i feel like I made more for sure.

I'm rather curious about people's thoughts on games 4 and 6. Those were some really wacky games.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All
 

Page created in 0.117 seconds with 21 queries.