Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier  (Read 23005 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« on: January 11, 2012, 05:10:33 pm »
+10

Look how far you've come...

You know what the acronym BMU stands for and how to beat it with a solid engine. You've gotten a pretty good grasp on most of the cards, you read up on strategy on these forums and in a very short time, you've become the focal point of your gaming group when it comes to Dominion. Every time someone from your group manages to beat you, it's celebrated as a common victory for every player, except you of course.

Powered by your newfound self esteem you try your luck on Isotropic because that's where the best players are. And you're already the best player of your gaming group, so it's time to teach those Isotropic noobs a lesson. Surely, they haven't found out about your neat trick with NV and Bridge or when Thief is actually a good buy.

You start to play against fellow low ranked players and it's like taking candy from a baby, sometimes even with the same crying. Slowly, but surely, you work your way up the ladder. That Geronimoo guy (grats on getting first by the way), how tough can he really be? Take away his simulator and you can easily take him on, right? Your level increases quickly and look at that, you're already lvl 20! That sure was easy.

You notice that the best way to advance on the ladder is to play and win against higher ranked opponents, so that's exactly what you're going to do. MrLvl20, taking all comers! Auto-match proposes a match between Lekkit (lvl 34) and you, accept! A few minutes later, you stare at your screen demoralized. GAME OVER. WTF?!? Luckbox! Quickly, another match, Michael Harris, accept! Same result. You're not liking the pattern that's developing, but through your anger you're unable to distill what's really going on and why you are losing.

So why exactly are you losing? What separates a lvl 30+ player from a lvl 20 player? I don't want to write yet another boring strategy article telling you to pay attention to possible trashing options, +Buys, etc.. You know all that already. So what can you do to get past that?

The key difference that I find between myself (lvl ~35) and lvl 20-ish players is end game control. Let me present to you this game: Example #1: Border Village, Grand Market, Stables. It is apparent from the get go that we are both going to build a sort of engine with those nice action cards. He opens Trade Route, I think that's too slow in the beginning and take Silver instead. We both pick up a Quarry. Through the midgame I regret not buying Trade Route, since I could've used the +Buy. I don't give up, but instead, I start looking for the backdoor. With Stables already gone and Grand Markets and Border Villages low, a 3-pile finish is very likely. I have given him some Curses, so I'm already ahead. It's turn 11 and I start thinking. How many buys does he have? 6, that's enough to clear out the last piles if I buy GMs. What's his economy like? He has only 1 Quarry, I have 2. So he'll probably won't be able to buy up those piles. I buy the GMs I planned to buy and end it on the next turn with my 2 Quarries.
Planning and working your way towards an exit is what you need to do. If you plan and start earlier than your opponent, you will very likely have the advantage.

Another one: Example #2: Curses, Great Halls and Estates. In this one I start my endgame at turn 20 when I buy an Estate. Due to some Remodeling, Estates were already low. Curses had been flying everywhere, so our economies crumbled. Now, we both could have tried desperately to grab those Provinces, but then the game may have been going 10 turns longer. I discovered an exit, took the first step and my opponent was too late.


So what I'm trying to tell with these examples if that you have to pay very good attention to how the game will likely end and if you can do anything to bend the conditions in your favour. Try to get the advantage by catching your opponent off guard. If he's trying to do the same thing as you, he will likely fail, because you've already planned for it, he hasn't.

Games with just 1 Buy are much easier to manipulate, especially if you're the 2nd player. Also, don't be scared to try something different. A lot of times a player will automatically buy a Duchy if he's behind. For example the score is your opponent 28 VP vs your 24 VP and you're both heavily in the greening stage with the same type decks, you have $6. You could buy a Duchy here, getting to 27 VP, but how does that help you really? He will likely do the same and you will both wittle down the Duchies and after that the Estates until he wins. Sometimes you just have to take a chance. Buy a Gold and hope you can scramble the last Province together or at least one of them.


The best players are just good players with a little more experience so they know what it takes to actually win a game instead of mindlessly grabbing the highest VP card everytime. They know when to switch gears and go for a lame ending or when they have nothing to lose and gamble a bit. Play well, play a lot and you yourself will likely get better at spotting 3-pile endings 10 moves in advance or building that megaturn. Always pay attention to your buys, the piles and of course, your opponent.


Lvl 30+ players: Feel free to interject and comment on what you think separates you from the bunch.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

DrHades

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +79
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 09:40:54 pm »
0

I think what separates a 30ish player from 20ish are 2 simple things:

1. Avarage player knows which cards are good, which are bad and know the famous combos. Good player thinks first, so he see that this good card is bad on this board, this card will be very handy altough it usually isn't and will make up a new fresh combo.

2. Avarage player knows how to play the game to maximalize the chance of win and he knows wheteher he is likely to win or to lose in the middle. Good players know how to change his strategy when he is losining for maximazing the chance of a comeback.

Now I am wondering - what separates an excellent (40ish) player from good (30ish) player? ;D
Logged

Anon79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
  • Respect: +39
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 09:55:27 pm »
0

For example the score is your opponent 28 VP vs your 24 VP and you're both heavily in the greening stage with the same type decks, you have $6. You could buy a Duchy here, getting to 27 VP, but how does that help you really?
You buy that Gold, opponent buys a Duchy, and now you can't even buy that Province to win (suicide). Bad example?
Logged

DrHades

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
  • Respect: +79
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 09:59:54 pm »
0

For example the score is your opponent 28 VP vs your 24 VP and you're both heavily in the greening stage with the same type decks, you have $6. You could buy a Duchy here, getting to 27 VP, but how does that help you really?
You buy that Gold, opponent buys a Duchy, and now you can't even buy that Province to win (suicide). Bad example?

Well this really depands on how the game is going on...but mostly you wanna take the Duchy.

I forgot 3rd thing: Deck control. That article improved my game a lot.
Logged

Axxle

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
  • Most Valuable Serial Killer
  • Respect: +1965
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 10:26:11 pm »
0

I think what separates a 30ish player from 20ish are 2 simple things:

1. Avarage player knows which cards are good, which are bad and know the famous combos. Good player thinks first, so he see that this good card is bad on this board, this card will be very handy altough it usually isn't and will make up a new fresh combo.

2. Avarage player knows how to play the game to maximalize the chance of win and he knows wheteher he is likely to win or to lose in the middle. Good players know how to change his strategy when he is losining for maximazing the chance of a comeback.

Now I am wondering - what separates an excellent (40ish) player from good (30ish) player? ;D

There was a thread about that a month ago: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1159.0

Unfortunately the thread seems to be mostly Level 30somethings speculating what separates them from the 40s rather than the reverse.
Logged
We might be from all over the world, but "we all talk this one language  : +1 card + 1 action +1 buy , gain , discard, trash... " - RTT

RisingJaguar

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 527
  • Respect: +184
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 11:50:16 pm »
0

First off, nice narrative/article, definitely a fun read.

One thing to know is card synergy and its advantages.  In the second game, your opponent does buy a border village which isn't a bad idea since he has >$5 and wants a Stable, that's cool.  Whenever he gains border village though, should keep in mind its advantages/disadvantages, mainly trash for benefit.  He actually could have remodeled one of those on turn 26 which would have changed things drastically, all part of end game management. 

The best players are just good players with a little more experience

This line I like a lot here because I think it is very true.  Its not important for people just to play a lot of games (which will help just by being exposed to new combos, I learned tactician shenanigans with vaults/black market this way).  It is important you experiment with cards.  Play to learn, not to win.  Try something new that you are 90% sure will fail, so you will know how to tweak engines or buying order.  Don't register when you do this if you don't want to ruin your rank. 

I'm not saying know every situation for a card, because I don't.  Experience and experimenting with the powerful situational cards will help turn the tide. 
Logged

Anon79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
  • Respect: +39
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 12:05:51 am »
0

On that same game, just because you can Remodel your Curse into an Estate doesn't mean you should. You can remodel it into copper too!

Edit: also, things like Turn 20: Copper, Estate, Estate, Watchtower, Remodel, what do you do? Instead of playing that Watchtower and hoping to draw $2 in 2 cards, surely a better play is Remodel (Estate to Remodel), reveal WT to place on deck.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 12:11:14 am by Anon79 »
Logged

timchen

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 704
  • Shuffle iT Username: allfail
  • Respect: +234
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 12:08:14 am »
0

I think what separates a 30ish player from 20ish are 2 simple things:

1. Avarage player knows which cards are good, which are bad and know the famous combos. Good player thinks first, so he see that this good card is bad on this board, this card will be very handy altough it usually isn't and will make up a new fresh combo.

2. Avarage player knows how to play the game to maximalize the chance of win and he knows wheteher he is likely to win or to lose in the middle. Good players know how to change his strategy when he is losining for maximazing the chance of a comeback.

Now I am wondering - what separates an excellent (40ish) player from good (30ish) player? ;D

The same things probably? I actually feel I don't quite know the two things mentioned here...
Logged

kn1tt3r

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 585
  • Respect: +278
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 12:50:47 am »
0

I didn't know there was a barrier...

It's a nice article, however I don't it makes much sense to talk about levels in general (especially because there will be no more levels once the official version is out - at least not levels as they are now), I'd rather focus articles on specific topics to improve one's game (like endgame control).

In the end it's just idle to say 'this topic is important to get from 10 to 20', 'that is important to get from 30 to 40' and so on. All are important, and noone can really put them in an exact order.
Logged

A_S00

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 84
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 01:31:33 am »
0

In the end it's just idle to say 'this topic is important to get from 10 to 20', 'that is important to get from 30 to 40' and so on. All are important, and noone can really put them in an exact order.

Maybe not an exact order, but I think there are some regularities to both the order and the skill levels at which people tend to learn specific things as they get better, and it's useful (to me, at least, as someone who just hit 30 for the first time but still feels like I could brush up on some of this stuff) to read an article like this one that basically says, "Feel like you've learned a bunch of stuff that's made you a better player but not enough to be great yet?  Here's what you probably still have left to learn."

There are stages of skill we all talk about, and the early ones are easy to spot:  Buying way too many actions because they're cool, not realizing that money is good.  Being a Village Idiot.  Buying only Provinces without understanding the dynamics underlying the PPR.  And I think pretty much everybody learns those early lessons in a somewhat similar order:
-The basic rules of the game.
-Trashing can be good.
-Money is better than you think.
-Some basic combos.
-How to build an engine.

But the equivalents of those lessons at higher level play are a little less obvious (involving things like deck control, knowing when money isn't better than you used to think, when to ignore the PPR and rush the last two Provinces, etc.), and I think it's nice to have an article focused on the stage where these things are what you should be working on.  It's not just that "all are important," because if you told someone who doesn't get why money is good that he should work on managing his reshuffles, I doubt it's going to improve his game, but if I start working more on managing my reshuffles, it's probably going to help me out a lot.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 03:09:41 am »
0

For example the score is your opponent 28 VP vs your 24 VP and you're both heavily in the greening stage with the same type decks, you have $6. You could buy a Duchy here, getting to 27 VP, but how does that help you really?
You buy that Gold, opponent buys a Duchy, and now you can't even buy that Province to win (suicide). Bad example?
Well, I had shifted the VP counts around and first there were 2 Provinces left, but then I started tampering and that didn't make it better. :)

Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

tlloyd

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 404
  • Respect: +84
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 12:33:35 pm »
0

Davio - why did you use BVs to gain Witches on your last turn instead of all Duchies? Your point about planning ahead is valid, but I'm suspicious about when exactly you realized that the three-pile ending was there.  ;D
Logged

ShuffleLuck

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 01:06:22 pm »
0

Davio - why did you use BVs to gain Witches on your last turn instead of all Duchies? Your point about planning ahead is valid, but I'm suspicious about when exactly you realized that the three-pile ending was there.  ;D
With the quarries in play, border village only cost $2, but duchies still cost $5, so you can't gain the duchies with the border villages.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 01:47:09 pm »
0

Davio - why did you use BVs to gain Witches on your last turn instead of all Duchies? Your point about planning ahead is valid, but I'm suspicious about when exactly you realized that the three-pile ending was there.  ;D
With the quarries in play, border village only cost $2, but duchies still cost $5, so you can't gain the duchies with the border villages.
Yes, Quarry.

When I see a kingdom I have some initial thoughts about a possible ending scenario. I'm a sucker for Grand Markets and with Witch, it's always likely the Curses will run out. Quarry allows for some easy extra action card pickups, so BV's were a likely candidate as well. I hadn't thought about Stables until later, but with limited trashing it makes sense.

I think I actively went for the 3-pile ending from turn 10.

It's just something I realized over the last few weeks that I tend to be one or two turns faster than my opponents in either switching to a 3-pile rush or defensively grabbing a Province or Duchy to prevent one. Because that's the other side of the coin. If you feel you may leave an easy out for your opponent, you have to play defensively and grab that green sometimes and just bite the bullet...

I've also been paying more attention to my shuffles. Your 3rd Cartographer can easily cause an unwanted shuffle of your discarded junk.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2012, 02:50:16 pm »
+1

Thanks for this thread. I myself am a level 28 who isn't sure if I'll ever make it to 30. I tend to fluctuate between level 25 and 28. Although I have beaten my share of level 35s from time to time, it often feels hopeless.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

tlloyd

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 404
  • Respect: +84
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2012, 03:01:25 pm »
0

Davio - why did you use BVs to gain Witches on your last turn instead of all Duchies? Your point about planning ahead is valid, but I'm suspicious about when exactly you realized that the three-pile ending was there.  ;D
With the quarries in play, border village only cost $2, but duchies still cost $5, so you can't gain the duchies with the border villages.

Doh! Excellent point. :)
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2012, 04:07:25 pm »
0

Here's a game I played just now: Heavy Trade Routing

So this game featured 3 VP cards in the kingdom alongside Colonies, so Trade Routes were going to be pretty nice once fired up ($7 max).
We both opened TR/Tourney. I had some doubts whether to open Tourney/Silver or TR/Silver instead, but I chose TR/Tourney. TR is a card that later on I always wish I had bought sooner, so this time I decided to pick it up instantly. I have a love and hate relationship with Silver. Sometimes I think I buy too much of them, sometimes too little. This game my adversity towards Silver won out and in a Colony game, those Tourneys can remain cheap Peddlers for a long time.

My opponent hammered the Tournaments and got a Province pretty fast and managed to get the Trusty Steed, then the Followers and adding insult to injury the Bag of Gold as well. He had 3 prizes, I had 0, but at least I had a Province! His early lead and prizes meant I had to throw my original plan (win Tournaments) out the window and come up with something better. I was losing, hard and fast.

On turn 12 I bought a second Trade Route and aggressively started to bump them. I was lucky enough to get a Colony. I bought a Fairgrounds and even a Duke! That Duke could become OK with those leftover Duchies from Tournament. Besides bumping up the TR, those VP cards were also gaining me.. VP of course. I was even ahead at some point when there were 3 Provinces left and I thought that they might provide a nice escape hatch.

I was always going to lose this in the long run, but maybe I could just scrape something together with my Trade Routes. With 7 tokens on the map, I only needed a Copper in hand to grab another Province. This payed off on my last turn in which I trash a Duchy to be able to grab that Province and win comfortably *ahum* by 2 points.

I think this was a nice comeback. I was losing, there was a chance, I took it and it payed off.


There will be lots of games in which you may be forced to take a chance and still lose badly, but that's OK because you would have probably lost those games anyway. An advice which is given to beginning players is to pick a strategy and stick to it. I still think this is the best for beginning players, otherwise they can't really learn from what they're doing and get confused. But I'm talking to lvl 20's here. I just find myself changing it up more and more halfway through the game. This can be dangerous, but if you keep the big picture in mind, I'm sure you'll do alright.

Don't fret if you can't breach the 30's. It's a ladder with diminishing returns. While it's fairly easy to get into the high 20's with decent solid play, it's hard to crack that barrier and you need to be consistent and of course, good. I'm sure you'll get there, GendoIkari, just stick with it, but remember to have fun along the way.

If you find yourself getting frustrated on Isotropic, play some real life Dominion. No matter how much I play on Iso, I find the most fulfulling games are those with my family and they're probably not even lvl 20. :)
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Asklepios

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 394
  • Respect: +116
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 03:25:23 pm »
0

As a current level 30 player, I'd like to know how to get to Level 40 please. :)

Just as a matter of curiosity, is it worth starting again? I played for quite a while hovering around Level 10-20 and oscillating up and down till I found this most excellent strategy site. Since studying dominionstrategy I've won a lot more than I've lost.

Do all those hundreds of games of playing badly stop me advancing now? Or does the ranking not work that way?

Of course, even if starting from scratch with a new account would give a higher rank I'm still not going to do it. I like my screen-name and have made friends using it!
Logged

A_S00

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 84
  • Respect: +41
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 04:36:48 pm »
0

I believe the current ranking system ignores games more than 30 days old.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2012, 07:07:09 pm »
0

I believe the current ranking system ignores games more than 30 days old.
Definitely not true. I play a lot, but not 6000+ games in the last month.....

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1757
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2012, 07:23:14 pm »
0

Yeah, that system was only in place for a short while.  As for Asklepios' question, I think in theory, it should not take long to rise to your appropriate ranking regardless of how many games you have played (older games are weighted less), but I am not an expert on the ratings system.

chwhite

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1065
  • Respect: +442
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 12:13:47 am »
0

I believe the current ranking system ignores games more than 30 days old.

The ranking system briefly did this, but there was an outcry and it does no longer.
Logged
To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

Asklepios

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 394
  • Respect: +116
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 05:52:51 pm »
0

Well, I appear to have gone from 30 to 33 in one day, by winning six or seven matches and losing three against rank +/-15 opponents, so it must still be having some effect. I'm sure I'll just stick with my current screenname regardless.

Incidentally, do victories against higher rank opponents count more than victories against lower rank ones? Likewise, do losses against lower rank opponents hurt more than losses against high rank ones?

As if so, it seems to me that the natural variance of Dominion would make it harder to rank up if you play all comers than if you just stick to high rank opponents.
Logged

Empathy

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 151
  • Respect: +40
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 04:32:20 pm »
0

I am not sure how much this will actually help people, but I'll mention my one biggest strength/weakness/bias, which might have helped, hindered or be completely unrelated to my level.

I hate mirror matches.

I really loath them.

If given the choice of 50-50 odds in mirror match, or 40-60 (playing a sub-optimal strategy), I will always pick the second case. This is especially the case if the lesser strategy is something I haven't played as often.

Now my reasons for this recurrent lapse of rationality are the following:
  • You learn a lot less in a mirror match. By definition, you will never get any strategic insight from a mirror match, only better technical skills at playing the (mirrored) strategy. While this is also valuable, I just don't care about improving my skills, and would rather focus on strategic decisions. Skill increase usually follows, though mine is definitely very below that of my cohort.
  • Occasionally, the sub-optimal strategy is actually better, it's just that because it was not tested as much.
  • Occasionally, because of the p1/p2 interplay, the (usually riskier) "sub-optimal" strategy is the better one for p2.
  • Most importantly, mirror matches are no fun.

Now if there is really only one decent strategy on the board, I will mirror. But if there is any way to avoid, I do. And so what if it decreases my odds of winning this particular game: by having played this (newish) strategy, I can now compare it more accurately, and hopefully pull it off better when it comes back again on another board, where it actually might be dominant!

I wonder how 40+ players (I consider myself still a 30+) feel about this. How much room do you feel there is for strategic improvement? What is the tradeoff between learning process and maximizing win conditions given available strategies?
 
Logged

shark_bait

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1103
  • Shuffle iT Username: shark_bait
  • Luckyfin and Land of Hinter for iso aliases
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Crossing The Lvl 30 Barrier
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2012, 06:26:35 pm »
+2

  • You learn a lot less in a mirror match. By definition, you will never get any strategic insight from a mirror match, only better technical skills at playing the (mirrored) strategy. While this is also valuable, I just don't care about improving my skills, and would rather focus on strategic decisions. Skill increase usually follows, though mine is definitely very below that of my cohort.

Regarding mirror matches, this is just absolutely false that there is no strategic insight to be gained.  In engine type mirror match games, there is a very high probability of ending the game on 3-piles.  Controlling the game such that you are in the best position to win this way takes lots of strategic thought into what to buy, when to buy it, and how much of it to buy.  This includes the engine cards as well as "insurance" VP cards to prevent your opponent from 3-piling on you.

In BM mirror, there isn't as much strategy, but it is necessary to consider when to duchy dance and when to break to PPP.  This requires a constant attention to the cards left in your deck as well as the cards left in your opponents deck.

I wonder how 40+ players (I consider myself still a 30+) feel about this. How much room do you feel there is for strategic improvement? What is the tradeoff between learning process and maximizing win conditions given available strategies?

There is always room for strategic improvement.  As for a tradeoff, I don't think there is one.  Trying to maximize your probability of winning is the best way to increase your learning of dominion.  If this comes at the hand of playing a mirror match, then play the mirror.  As you get better at dominion and play more skilled opponents, there is a good chance they will see the same winning strategy that you see.  This will result in more mirror matches and mastering the finer points of playing a mirror match will drastically increase you skill.
Logged
Hello.  Name's Bruce.  It's all right.  I understand.  Why trust a shark, right?

Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.151 seconds with 20 queries.