Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Perfect shuffling?  (Read 1866 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3602
  • Respect: +6077
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Perfect shuffling?
« on: January 11, 2012, 01:55:26 pm »
0

Chancellor and Treasure Map. You could do quite well with "poor shuffling", if you can make it believable enough. Or Philosopher's Stone and you're really bad at counting.
Thought experiment: suppose you could cheat and be able to shuffle any way you like.  Is Treasure Map the dominant strategy?

EDIT: Puzzle #1 provides one answer.  What if there are opponents?  Or if the Kingdom doesn't include the necessary components for Puzzle #1 (e.g., Chancellor)?
Logged

buggibum

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
  • Respect: +4
    • View Profile
Re: Is TMap dominant with perfect shuffling?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 02:04:42 pm »
0

Chancellor and Treasure Map. You could do quite well with "poor shuffling", if you can make it believable enough. Or Philosopher's Stone and you're really bad at counting.
Thought experiment: suppose you could cheat and be able to shuffle any way you like.  Is Treasure Map the dominant strategy?

Of course, thats why Throne Room and a terminal action card is a pretty reliable strategy to open a game. You just have to learn to shuffle! :D
Logged

Epoch

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 421
  • Respect: +38
    • View Profile
Re: Is TMap dominant with perfect shuffling?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 02:09:11 pm »
0

Thought experiment: suppose you could cheat and be able to shuffle any way you like.  Is Treasure Map the dominant strategy?

Can you only cheat to put Treasure Maps wherever you like, or is it all cards?

If it's all cards, then I think it'd be moderately difficult to beat "I will arrange to have at least $4 in both turns 3 and 4 and buy TMs and activate them on turn 5."  You don't even waste your opening buys!
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4371
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Is TMap dominant with perfect shuffling?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 02:11:00 pm »
0

Isn't the solution to puzzle #1 going to be the best thing with perfect shuffle luck? Well, maybe some attack can ruin it....

ecq

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
  • Respect: +158
    • View Profile
Re: Perfect shuffling?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 02:56:46 pm »
0

Treasure Map + Chancellor doesn't seem great in this context.  There's no +buy and it doesn't see the gold until the 5th turn.  It'll have half the Provinces/Colonies by turn 9 and all of them by turn 13 (unless I'm missing something).  By contrast, Puzzle #1 has emptied all the Colonies by the end of turn 5.

It'd terrible in a Province game.  It'd one turn faster to buy two Silvers and a Chancellor, guaranteeing Copper-Copper-Silver-Silver-Chancellor = $8 every turn.

Question, though: How do you define "dominant strategy?"
Logged

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2746
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3657
    • View Profile
Re: Perfect shuffling?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 03:08:07 pm »
0

Opening Chapel/Quarry into Grand Markets can get all 10 in like 8 turns. I think this is a bit stronger than 4 Gold from the treasure maps.
Logged

ecq

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 224
  • Respect: +158
    • View Profile
Re: Perfect shuffling?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 03:34:55 pm »
0

Bridge seems like the real powerhouse with perfect luck, if you have good support.  KC-Bridge is a no-brainer.  Bridge-Village-Watchtower has a lot of potential as well, being fast and cheap to set up and reasonable against attacks.

I'm intrigued by possibilities like Worker's Village - Chancellor - Goons.  How quickly can you accumulate VP tokens to the point where the Province/Colony pile doesn't matter?  (I suspect not nearly quick enough).
Logged

Elyv

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 163
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: Perfect shuffling?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 03:58:12 pm »
0

I imagine some variant of KC/Goons/Masquerade is dominant on a lot of boards as well.
Logged

Rabid

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Shuffle iT Username: Rabid
  • Respect: +642
    • View Profile
Re: Perfect shuffling?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 05:55:21 pm »
0

Sorry to go slightly off topic but this game I just played reminded me of this thread.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/11/game-20120111-142046-b88af406.html

Note the T3 buy CR,
T4 play village shuffle, draw CR, draw deck. Masq I get passed a copper so I have $8 and 2 buys.
Then draw opening hands after each reshuffle T5 to T7 contain both village and CR.
T8 bag of gold, then trusty steed to drew effectively 1 card (CR)

T6 buy prov, use it to block on the next turn & use it twice on turn 7 to trigger both my tournaments.

Thanks for the game chwhite and apologies for the luck.
 
Logged
Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.129 seconds with 22 queries.