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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition  (Read 114446 times)

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Tables

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #150 on: November 01, 2015, 02:56:05 pm »
0

Uh... I'd really like to see the "all cards ranking". I think it is really interesting, which card is so good (so bad) that it is higher (lower) ranked than cards with higher (lower) costs.

Would it be much work, to do the whole list too?

If enough people have ranked everything, I think it shouldn't be too hard to at least post the list, even if no stats or analysis is done on it.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #151 on: November 02, 2015, 04:31:00 am »
0

I know it's still very early, but can you already guess when the the first results are starting to be posted?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 04:34:25 am by assemble_me »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #152 on: November 02, 2015, 01:02:43 pm »
+10

Are the lists that have common elements with other lists (and therefore are automatically semi-ranked as you ranked those other lists) automatically counted?  What I'm really asking is, if I haven't touched the "all cards" list, but have sorted everything else so that the all cards list is semi-sorted, do I need to tell you not to count it?  I'm asking because I'm guessing other people are in this situation too.

Of course, if it wasn't clear, I don't want you to count my all cards list.  Also don't count my events list, as I don't think I sorted that one either.  Thanks!

For next year I should probably include a "finished" button so that I know which lists to count.

I didn't sort the "events" list for fear that doing so would mess up my sorting on all the other lists if I accidentally created a paradox. (in the OP it's optional to sort the extra lists)

In case it wasn't clear: If you use the duel mode there is no way that it messes up the other lists. You can only create paradoxes if you use the ordering method.

Besides YouTube, where will the finished rankings be posted?

I'm not sure if I post it on YouTube, but I will post it here and on the wiki.


Huh, I thougt the all cards list was just some kind of gimmick anyways? It's never been "published" before, right? I didn't put any effort in getting it in the right order after the other lists were fine.
If enough people have ranked everything, I think it shouldn't be too hard to at least post the list, even if no stats or analysis is done on it.

I'm planning to post a list for all cards, I just never got around to do it last time.

I know it's still very early, but can you already guess when the the first results are starting to be posted?

I'm currently inputting the lists that I got via PM. Tomorrow I start with the real work. The first list should be online on Wednesday.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #153 on: November 02, 2015, 02:59:17 pm »
0

I didn't finish my lists - I assume it's too late now? If so, you should probably remove my lists from consideration, except for I think the $2 cost one
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #154 on: November 02, 2015, 03:59:11 pm »
0

Ignore my list.  I finished only like 1% of it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #155 on: November 02, 2015, 08:05:02 pm »
0

My results:

$0-$2 Cost:
1.) Hamlet   
2.) Squire   
3.) Chapel   
4.) Alms   
5.) Candlestick Maker   
6.) Herbalist   
7.) Quest   
8.) Page   
9.) Embargo   
10.) Cellar   
11.) Travelling Fair   
12.) Raze   
13.) Peasant   
14.) Haven   
15.) Ratcatcher   
16.) Lighthouse   
17.) Courtyard   
18.) Moat   
19.) Save   
20.) Fool's Gold   
21.) Crossroads   
22.) Coin of the Realm   
23.) Vagrant   
24.) Pawn   
25.) Beggar   
26.) Borrow   
27.) Duchess   
28.) Secret Chamber   
29.) Poor House 
30.) Stonemason 
31.) Pearl Diver   
32.) Scouting Party   
33.) Native Village

Squire should be below Chapel. I miss-clicked on the duel between Squire and Chapel.

$3 Cost:
1.) Scheme   
2.) Masquerade   
3.) Ferry   
4.) Gear   
5.) Caravan Guard   
6.) Dungeon   
7.) Shanty Town   
8.) Fishing Village   
9.) Amulet   
10.) Warehouse   
11.) Urchin   
12.) Village   
13.) Ambassador   
14.) Market Square   
15.) Swindler   
16.) Menagerie   
17.) Masterpiece   
18.) Guide   
19.) Hermit   
20.) Develop   
21.) Oasis   
22.) Workshop   
23.) Sage   
24.) Tunnel   
25.) Steward   
26.) Smugglers   
27.) Great Hall   
28.) Wishing Well   
29.) Storeroom   
30.) Watchtower   
31.) Fortune Teller   
32.) Forager   
33.) Expedition   
34.) Chancellor   
35.) Trade Route   
36.) Doctor   
37.) Oracle   
38.) Woodcutter   
39.) Plan   
40.) Bonfire   
41.) Loan   
42.) Lookout   
43.) Black Market 

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.

$4 Costs and the rest after dinner.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #156 on: November 02, 2015, 08:20:12 pm »
+9

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.
Would you buy them in a box? Would you buy them with a fox?
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #157 on: November 02, 2015, 11:46:07 pm »
0

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.
Would you buy them in a box? Would you buy them with a fox?

??? ???

BTW, I only dislike both cards because of being too luck-based (and Lookout has forced blind trashing). If Lookout made the trashing optional, I would probably buy it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #158 on: November 02, 2015, 11:54:59 pm »
0

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.
Would you buy them in a box? Would you buy them with a fox?

??? ???

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #159 on: November 03, 2015, 04:00:38 am »
+6

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.
Would you buy them in a box? Would you buy them with a fox?

??? ???

BTW, I only dislike both cards because of being too luck-based (and Lookout has forced blind trashing). If Lookout made the trashing optional, I would probably buy it.

They aren't luck-based, you just need to know when to not play them.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #160 on: November 03, 2015, 04:04:13 am »
+4

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM.

You know, there is a button "I don't know this card" for exactly this case, so it doesn't mess up with the ratings.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #161 on: November 03, 2015, 05:04:17 am »
0

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.
Would you buy them in a box? Would you buy them with a fox?

??? ???

BTW, I only dislike both cards because of being too luck-based (and Lookout has forced blind trashing). If Lookout made the trashing optional, I would probably buy it.

They aren't luck-based, you just need to know when to not play them.

BM is a bit of a luck-based card. However, Lookout really is not. Early on, you know your hitting coppers and estates. Its on later turns that it requires some level of deck tracking.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #162 on: November 03, 2015, 07:54:31 am »
+7

I'm currently inputting the lists that I got via PM. Tomorrow I start with the real work. The first list should be online on Wednesday.

The Ruins list is short, so I post it today already.
First part of $2- list tomorrow or Thursday.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #163 on: November 03, 2015, 08:19:53 am »
0

BM is a bit of a luck-based card. However, Lookout really is not. Early on, you know your hitting coppers and estates. Its on later turns that it requires some level of deck tracking.

I was talking about Lookout and Loan, not Lookout and BM. BM actually involves a significant RNG element, but I wouldn't exactly call it luck-based because the more skilled player still usually gets more advantage out of it than the luckier player.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #164 on: November 20, 2015, 07:10:21 am »
+1

I'm curious about changes over the years, especially across different costs.

Has anyone ever tried to categorize cards and plug in some numbers?
As in, maybe there are more trashers available now than 1, 2 years, ago, did this make the junkers go down?

Something like that.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #165 on: December 03, 2015, 04:54:14 am »
0

Do we get the average numbers for each expansion again? Would be nice to see how Adventures did in general
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #166 on: December 03, 2015, 11:52:26 am »
0

Do we get the average numbers for each expansion again? Would be nice to see how Adventures did in general

Yeah, I remember doing that a few years ago. I totally forgot to do that the last couple iterations. I can do that.

First I want to release the "All cards" list. I have the problem though that I have a hard time to tell apart who finished doing that. I have to check each submission separately which is a lot of work. Also, what I didn't consider is that if I exclude the not finished lists, the order of the cards don't match the order of the individual lists anymore. Because of those two reasons I will count each user's list. I think this will yield a better result as the actual order of a card in a not finished list is probably in average not more than 10 ranks away as the cards are spread out evenly of all lists. In a list of over 250 cards that won't affect a lot. Only cards in lists with few cards (like the Potion list) may end up not exactly where they belong. For next year I definitely have to remember to add a "finished" button to prevent this again.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #167 on: December 03, 2015, 12:06:05 pm »
+1

Also, what I didn't consider is that if I exclude the not finished lists, the order of the cards don't match the order of the individual lists anymore. Because of those two reasons I will count each user's list.
This problem ("the order of the cards [in the All Cards list] don't match the order of the individual lists anymore") might still exist because of those who submitted their lists by PM but chose not to submit an All Cards list, right?

I would suggest that you don't spend too much time or energy on the All Cards list; I suspect most people didn't complete the daunting task of sorting all 200+ cards.  I expect that algorithmic assumptions/biases and white noise will dominate actual deliberated sorting.  Like drsteelhammer, I would be curious to get stats on the cards as grouped by expansion.

Thank you again for organizing this, Qvist!  It has generated a lot of productive discussion.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #168 on: December 03, 2015, 12:36:41 pm »
+2

I think it makes little sense to bother people ordering all cards in a single list (which is ridiculous work if done seriously) nor can you be expected to evaluate each user's list individually (also a lot of work). For the future, I suggest you offer a top 30 list instead of a complete ranking for each user. One would assume most people only care about the top cards of the complete list anyway and it's the only area where such fine differences in card rank are actually interesting.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #169 on: December 03, 2015, 12:54:44 pm »
0

I think it makes little sense to bother people ordering all cards in a single list (which is ridiculous work if done seriously) nor can you be expected to evaluate each user's list individually (also a lot of work). For the future, I suggest you offer a top 30 list instead of a complete ranking for each user. One would assume most people only care about the top cards of the complete list anyway and it's the only area where such fine differences in card rank are actually interesting.

For me, the entire benefit of the lists is to promote discussion, and I find discussion about the middle and bottom of the lists more interesting than the discussion about the top few cards in each list.

I do agree that ranking all the cards in one big list is a huge undertaking. I didn't even finish my cost-based lists.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #170 on: December 04, 2015, 10:24:31 am »
0

Sorry Qvist. I did not finish my list, but I meant to. I think a Done button would go a far way next time like you suggested.

Honestly though, I am more curious about the average expansion ranking moreso than the top 250 card list (mainly because I think it will end up inaccurate although it should give a decent baseline for the power level of cards when compared across costs).
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #171 on: December 04, 2015, 10:26:17 am »
+9

My results:

$0-$2 Cost:
1.) Hamlet   
2.) Squire   
3.) Chapel   
4.) Alms   
5.) Candlestick Maker   
6.) Herbalist   
7.) Quest   
8.) Page   
9.) Embargo   
10.) Cellar   
11.) Travelling Fair   
12.) Raze   
13.) Peasant   
14.) Haven   
15.) Ratcatcher   
16.) Lighthouse   
17.) Courtyard   
18.) Moat   
19.) Save   
20.) Fool's Gold   
21.) Crossroads   
22.) Coin of the Realm   
23.) Vagrant   
24.) Pawn   
25.) Beggar   
26.) Borrow   
27.) Duchess   
28.) Secret Chamber   
29.) Poor House 
30.) Stonemason 
31.) Pearl Diver   
32.) Scouting Party   
33.) Native Village

Squire should be below Chapel. I miss-clicked on the duel between Squire and Chapel.

$3 Cost:
1.) Scheme   
2.) Masquerade   
3.) Ferry   
4.) Gear   
5.) Caravan Guard   
6.) Dungeon   
7.) Shanty Town   
8.) Fishing Village   
9.) Amulet   
10.) Warehouse   
11.) Urchin   
12.) Village   
13.) Ambassador   
14.) Market Square   
15.) Swindler   
16.) Menagerie   
17.) Masterpiece   
18.) Guide   
19.) Hermit   
20.) Develop   
21.) Oasis   
22.) Workshop   
23.) Sage   
24.) Tunnel   
25.) Steward   
26.) Smugglers   
27.) Great Hall   
28.) Wishing Well   
29.) Storeroom   
30.) Watchtower   
31.) Fortune Teller   
32.) Forager   
33.) Expedition   
34.) Chancellor   
35.) Trade Route   
36.) Doctor   
37.) Oracle   
38.) Woodcutter   
39.) Plan   
40.) Bonfire   
41.) Loan   
42.) Lookout   
43.) Black Market 

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.

$4 Costs and the rest after dinner.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #172 on: December 08, 2015, 03:24:30 pm »
+2

Qvist, could you make these lists available in some easy to parse format like csv?

One thing I would like to sort the lists on is the difference between the weighted and the unweighted rating. Or calculate the similarity between my lists and the official ones using say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spearman's_rank_correlation_coefficient.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #173 on: December 08, 2015, 04:14:38 pm »
0

Qvist, could you make these lists available in some easy to parse format like csv?

One thing I would like to sort the lists on is the difference between the weighted and the unweighted rating. Or calculate the similarity between my lists and the official ones using say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spearman's_rank_correlation_coefficient.

I would also like to see the lists using only the rankings of the top 20 or so players, though that seems like a lot more work.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #174 on: December 10, 2015, 01:06:18 pm »
+1

It might be easy to do, but I don't think I have currently time for that, sorry.
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