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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition  (Read 114453 times)

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SCSN

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #125 on: October 29, 2015, 08:58:34 am »
+1

I have it on 5:

Code: [Select]
1.) Scrying Pool
2.) Familiar
3.) Vineyard
4.) Apothecary
5.) Possession
6.) Golem
7.) Alchemist
8.) University
9.) Philosopher's Stone
10.) Transmute

I find that ranking the 5s is a big chore... the top and bottom is fun, but all those cards in the middle, man, I'm almost inclined to just let them be where they are.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #126 on: October 29, 2015, 09:07:57 am »
+1

I have it on 5:

Code: [Select]
1.) Scrying Pool
2.) Familiar
3.) Vineyard
4.) Apothecary
5.) Possession
6.) Golem
7.) Alchemist
8.) University
9.) Philosopher's Stone
10.) Transmute

I find that ranking the 5s is a big chore... the top and bottom is fun, but all those cards in the middle, man, I'm almost inclined to just let them be where they are.

How can I best provoke you into saying something sardonic and witty about why you have university so low?
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #127 on: October 29, 2015, 09:14:18 am »
0

I find that ranking the 5s is a big chore... the top and bottom is fun, but all those cards in the middle, man, I'm almost inclined to just let them be where they are.

That's pretty much what I did. I switched to the drag and drop mode, carefully thought about the top and the bottom, and then just dragged the rest of the cards somewhere close enough.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #128 on: October 29, 2015, 09:33:50 am »
+1

I have it on 5:

Code: [Select]
1.) Scrying Pool
2.) Familiar
3.) Vineyard
4.) Apothecary
5.) Possession
6.) Golem
7.) Alchemist
8.) University
9.) Philosopher's Stone
10.) Transmute

I find that ranking the 5s is a big chore... the top and bottom is fun, but all those cards in the middle, man, I'm almost inclined to just let them be where they are.

How can I best provoke you into saying something sardonic and witty about why you have university so low?

It's that low because it's less good than the cards above it most of the time
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #129 on: October 29, 2015, 09:43:45 am »
0

I have it on 5:

Code: [Select]
1.) Scrying Pool
2.) Familiar
3.) Vineyard
4.) Apothecary
5.) Possession
6.) Golem
7.) Alchemist
8.) University
9.) Philosopher's Stone
10.) Transmute

I find that ranking the 5s is a big chore... the top and bottom is fun, but all those cards in the middle, man, I'm almost inclined to just let them be where they are.

How can I best provoke you into saying something sardonic and witty about why you have university so low?

It's that low because it's less good than the cards above it most of the time

So is Uni an overrated card? I feel like most people put it above possession/alchemist/golem.

The more I play with golem the more I don't like it. The only way I'm getting one is because it made an engine possible where otherwise I was just going to be playing big money and that's it.

So yeah I'm pretty confident having uni on 5 and golem on 8
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #130 on: October 29, 2015, 09:51:14 am »
+1

The more I play with golem the more I don't like it. The only way I'm getting one is because it made an engine possible where otherwise I was just going to be playing big money and that's it.

Sometimes the Golem + two terminals deck is a thing. These days I had one with two Mountebanks and I'm convinced it was better than trying to build an engine (because that didn't really work out)
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jsh357

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #131 on: October 29, 2015, 09:54:54 am »
+2

I certainly think University is good sometimes, but it's a bad village without draw to X and takes several turns before you can actually gain cards with it since you need to buy a potion, buy University, draw University, then play it, then you can eventually play the gained cards. That takes several turns most of the time. You can see how it's slow. Alchemist and Golem give you a direct benefit right away; Alchemist can be the backbone of your draw engine, which is often better than having a gainer; Golem can be a better village than University and allows you to play more cards guaranteed as long as there are enough actions in your deck. Possession has a huge effect on how the game is played, even if nobody actually buys it. Pool, Apo, Vineyard, and Familiar to me are all obviously in a higher tier. These are the types of reasoning I used in placing University in the same spot SCSN did. I see a lot of players go for University without good reason to. It definitely looks more useful than it often is.
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SCSN

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #132 on: October 29, 2015, 10:00:23 am »
+6

How can I best provoke you into saying something sardonic and witty about why you have university so low?

I don't have much to say other than that University is a good card but those above it are even better!

Thinking a bit more: the best thing in Dominion is generally to reliably draw your deck each turn and play all actions you have (which should also be the best actions you could have). Cards that really help you do this (Wharf, Chapel) or prevent your opponent from doing this (Cultist, Witch) are very strong; cards that sit in the way without doing much of anything (Harvest, Cache) are very weak.

University lets you gain 5 costs, which is obviously great, but unless these 5-costs are spammable and actively help you to increase deck-drawing reliability (say Wharf, Lab, Governor, Minion—when these are on the board University is fantastic) you don't want to gain a bunch of 5 costs indiscriminately, and then there is the underestimated cost of University itself, which doesn't just require getting a Potion and having it floating around in your deck, but the University itself prevents you from drawing other cards. Sure it's a village, but you don't go around spamming Squires either (well, some people do, but it's generally very bad).

To give an example: if you start your hand with University-Smithy, you end up increasing its size by 1, whereas this would have been 2 had the University been an ordinary Village. So another way to look at it—a way I imagine Mic will absolutely love—is that every time you play University, you cost yourself an immediate lab-effect relative to playing a normal village.

Of course there are some solid counter-arguments that I'd happily agree with, but I'm not claiming that I'd rather have a Village than a University, I'm just saying that this is a factor you'd easily overlook if you haven't built a ton of engines and developed an awareness for the different building speeds these cards bring with them.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 11:06:49 am by SheCantSayNo »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2015, 10:01:10 am »
+3

I have it on 5:

Code: [Select]
1.) Scrying Pool
2.) Familiar
3.) Vineyard
4.) Apothecary
5.) Possession
6.) Golem
7.) Alchemist
8.) University
9.) Philosopher's Stone
10.) Transmute

I find that ranking the 5s is a big chore... the top and bottom is fun, but all those cards in the middle, man, I'm almost inclined to just let them be where they are.

How can I best provoke you into saying something sardonic and witty about why you have university so low?

It's that low because it's less good than the cards above it most of the time

So is Uni an overrated card? I feel like most people put it above possession/alchemist/golem.

The more I play with golem the more I don't like it. The only way I'm getting one is because it made an engine possible where otherwise I was just going to be playing big money and that's it.

So yeah I'm pretty confident having uni on 5 and golem on 8
Is University overrated? For me, the short answer is yes.

You have to add the Potion and the Necropolis Universities to your deck while getting those action cards. You have to ask if it would just be better to, you know, buy the cards you want to spam. Important piles are often contested, so if there is only 1 pile of cards that you lots of copies from then University might not give you a big enough split to offset the extra Potion and Necro University in your deck.

The more I play with golem the more I don't like it. The only way I'm getting one is because it made an engine possible where otherwise I was just going to be playing big money and that's it.

Sometimes the Golem + two terminals deck is a thing. These days I had one with two Mountebanks and I'm convinced it was better than trying to build an engine (because that didn't really work out)
I remember making a Scheme Golem Mountebank deck once. That seemed okay. And sometimes you really do want Golem so that you can play 2 terminal actions in your engine deck instead of one.

I still have to submit my list for this. I haven't played Adventures though so I'm skipping it in the rankings.

Edit: sorta Ninja'd by SCSN here.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 10:03:01 am by markusin »
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #134 on: October 29, 2015, 10:13:25 am »
+3

Yes, the other potion cards are just too good. I have Possession on #7, too, right before Golem. But I can see a point in doing it the other way around. The gap between 6 and 7 is quite big in my mind, though.

Just checked 2013 and 2014: Possession was on #8 in both years.

It's hard for me to rank Possession properly. The games where it's so strong stick out in my memory, but I can't remember how often it ends up being totally ignorable. Like, when it's not good we're talking 9-card kingdom here so I won't even notice it.

It's a real game changer though and one you do have to carefully consider whenever it's out. Definitely a card I need to get used to thinking about more carefully before making a total blunder.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 10:14:29 am by markusin »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #135 on: October 29, 2015, 11:05:50 am »
0

Well I got what I wanted and now I can change my ranking with confidence.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #136 on: October 30, 2015, 07:56:23 pm »
0

Hey qvist. I never finished my list for taking all the cards and events. Can you please not count those two. I was going to write the list out, but never got around to it. All my other lists are good to go. If you give me an extension for those two lists, I could try and get them out to you by Tuesday.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #137 on: October 31, 2015, 07:56:05 am »
0

Hey qvist. I never finished my list for taking all the cards and events. Can you please not count those two. I was going to write the list out, but never got around to it. All my other lists are good to go. If you give me an extension for those two lists, I could try and get them out to you by Tuesday.

Leave me a PM when you're finished as I start posting the results for the $2 and $3 lists anyway.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #138 on: October 31, 2015, 08:37:39 am »
0

please don't count my all-cards ranking. everything else i did should be good now, thanks!

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #139 on: October 31, 2015, 08:41:32 am »
+7

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #140 on: October 31, 2015, 10:43:28 pm »
0

Are the lists that have common elements with other lists (and therefore are automatically semi-ranked as you ranked those other lists) automatically counted?  What I'm really asking is, if I haven't touched the "all cards" list, but have sorted everything else so that the all cards list is semi-sorted, do I need to tell you not to count it?  I'm asking because I'm guessing other people are in this situation too.

Of course, if it wasn't clear, I don't want you to count my all cards list.  Also don't count my events list, as I don't think I sorted that one either.  Thanks!
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #141 on: November 01, 2015, 01:05:10 am »
0

Are the lists that have common elements with other lists (and therefore are automatically semi-ranked as you ranked those other lists) automatically counted?  What I'm really asking is, if I haven't touched the "all cards" list, but have sorted everything else so that the all cards list is semi-sorted, do I need to tell you not to count it?  I'm asking because I'm guessing other people are in this situation too.

Of course, if it wasn't clear, I don't want you to count my all cards list.  Also don't count my events list, as I don't think I sorted that one either.  Thanks!

Same here, I haven't touched my all cards list and it's likely to be very silly. But I ranked each cost class fully.

Deadlock39

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #142 on: November 01, 2015, 01:43:31 am »
0

I tried to work on the all cards list, but I don't think I put enough time into it for it to be very complete.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #143 on: November 01, 2015, 02:53:24 am »
0

I didn't sort the "events" list for fear that doing so would mess up my sorting on all the other lists if I accidentally created a paradox. (in the OP it's optional to sort the extra lists)

I thought this would be obvious but now that I think about it, how can you tell that the chaos that's there now isn't what I wanted?
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #144 on: November 01, 2015, 03:06:53 am »
+2

Huh, I thougt the all cards list was just some kind of gimmick anyways? It's never been "published" before, right? I didn't put any effort in getting it in the right order after the other lists were fine.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #145 on: November 01, 2015, 12:23:12 pm »
0

Besides YouTube, where will the finished rankings be posted?
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #146 on: November 01, 2015, 12:58:52 pm »
0

Besides YouTube, where will the finished rankings be posted?

Here, then the wiki.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #147 on: November 01, 2015, 01:15:55 pm »
0

Glad I'm not the only one; please do not count my all-cards and events list either.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #148 on: November 01, 2015, 01:45:31 pm »
+1

Uh... I'd really like to see the "all cards ranking". I think it is really interesting, which card is so good (so bad) that it is higher (lower) ranked than cards with higher (lower) costs.

Would it be much work, to do the whole list too?
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #149 on: November 01, 2015, 02:27:16 pm »
0

i understood all cards ranking as (quality of card)/(avg quality of card cost), notwithstanding that $3s might be stronger than $4s in general or whatever which is sort of another reason not to have the results posted
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