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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition  (Read 51850 times)

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funkdoc

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2015, 02:51:30 pm »
+1

also, i think the $4s may be the most interesting group to debate. a good number of cards that have fallen (sea hag) or risen (remake, herald, ironmonger) as the game's evolved.

personally i don't see much of an argument for herald over wandering minstrel. WM just does so much to accelerate your deck in the early going (whereas herald struggles with the junk cards), and it's *especially* key for engines without trashing.  the latter is big in my mind, as i've come to see those as some of the main games that separate top players from the rest.  heck, i'd probably put ironmonger above herald just because of how much better it is at the beginning - i'm finding that the early game matters more than the end, more often than not.

wachsmuth

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2015, 08:04:33 pm »
0

Can you vote if you play only on Making Fun and not Goko? (I guess Making Fun doesn't have a proper search function yet, so actually finding one's username is difficult...)

I started playing only recently, and seeing as Goko is shutting down, not much point in starting that  :)
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2015, 05:20:15 am »
+2

Can you vote if you play only on Making Fun and not Goko? (I guess Making Fun doesn't have a proper search function yet, so actually finding one's username is difficult...)

I started playing only recently, and seeing as Goko is shutting down, not much point in starting that  :)

You can, I have to just assume Level 0 then, because the rating is weighted based on the level.

Aleimon Thimble

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2015, 06:27:23 am »
0

Can you vote if you play only on Making Fun and not Goko? (I guess Making Fun doesn't have a proper search function yet, so actually finding one's username is difficult...)

I started playing only recently, and seeing as Goko is shutting down, not much point in starting that  :)

You can, I have to just assume Level 0 then, because the rating is weighted based on the level.

I've never really played competitive on Goko either, but I'm rated 4300ish on Making Fun..

Maybe I should play some games on Goko before the end of the month..
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2015, 06:29:45 am »
0

Can you vote if you play only on Making Fun and not Goko? (I guess Making Fun doesn't have a proper search function yet, so actually finding one's username is difficult...)

I started playing only recently, and seeing as Goko is shutting down, not much point in starting that  :)

You can, I have to just assume Level 0 then, because the rating is weighted based on the level.

I've never really played competitive on Goko either, but I'm rated 4300ish on Making Fun..

Maybe I should play some games on Goko before the end of the month..
Before tomorrow you mean  :'( :'(

RIP Goko
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funkdoc

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2015, 09:04:52 am »
0

my early prediction of sea hag as the card that will drop the most from the previous ranking is looking good so far

wonder if i'll be the high vote on urchin.  hint: i have it sandwiched in between ambassador & steward

assemble_me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2015, 09:10:17 am »
0

my early prediction of sea hag as the card that will drop the most from the previous ranking is looking good so far

wonder if i'll be the high vote on urchin.  hint: i have it sandwiched in between ambassador & steward

It's not so clear. Guilds was still pretty new when the last voting came out, and the newer cards tend to be more over/underrated. I think I have Doctor a lot lower than it was in the last rating.
Also some Dark Ages cards may make big jumps up- or downwards. I also expect Urchin to be much higher than last time. I also have it right after Ambassador :). I think I stated somewhere else that I expect it in the top 5, and I still do so despite Adventures.

... and I still have Sea Hag quite high.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 09:21:41 am by assemble_me »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2015, 09:16:04 am »
+2

Now I feel dumb because I've ranked Sea Hag #1 among -cards  :-\ Could anyone explain to me please why it's not that good anymore? Which recent developments have caused its drop in ranking?
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2015, 09:25:35 am »
+2

Now I feel dumb because I've ranked Sea Hag #1 among -cards  :-\ Could anyone explain to me please why it's not that good anymore? Which recent developments have caused its drop in ranking?

It's still pretty brutal and often must buy. But with more and more expansions there are more and more ways of dealing with its attack. Since it doesn't provide you any profit except hurting your opponent, it is often faster to go for trashing instead of Hag, in case such trashing is available.

funkdoc

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2015, 09:45:52 am »
0

Now I feel dumb because I've ranked Sea Hag #1 among -cards  :-\ Could anyone explain to me please why it's not that good anymore? Which recent developments have caused its drop in ranking?

in addition to what burning skull said, there are also more cards that can sift through curses, e.g. journeyman.  and i think part of it is that, as i've alluded to earlier here, people have gotten better at making engines work with some junk in their deck.  if the only trashing available is something like trade route or develop or expand, then sea hag is definitely still strong.  it's just not uncommon to have decent enough trashing to deal with it.

i'd say young witch is clearly better because that +2 cards is such a big deal, especially since the discard is barely a punishment early in the game.  i think newer players tend to think the bane element is more of a problem than it really is.

i almost certainly have young witch too high and sea hag too low in my current rankings, though - i did the card-dueling thing to make all of my lists and the $4s ended up a bit wacky.  guess i could just switch to manual listing to fix those few things!

AdamH

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2015, 10:37:25 am »
+8

I believe I did a great job of explaining it here (I am me, though, so I'm probably biased).

It's still pretty brutal and often must buy.

"Often" doesn't seem like the word for me. I think she's ignorable on over 50% of boards.

OK, OK, she's not "ignorable". I mean, look at that pink hair in the moonlight; really, how do you ignore that? She's so hott. Oh baby oh.
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Burning Skull

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2015, 10:57:35 am »
+1

It's still pretty brutal and often must buy.

"Often" doesn't seem like the word for me. I think she's ignorable on over 50% of boards.

I am not a native English speaker, but always thought that 50% pretty mush falls into "often" category :P

LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2015, 11:01:24 am »
0

It's still pretty brutal and often must buy.

"Often" doesn't seem like the word for me. I think she's ignorable on over 50% of boards.

I am not a native English speaker, but always thought that 50% pretty mush falls into "often" category :P

Well that depends on the context. If you usually buy more than half the Kingdom cards in a Kingdom, then a card that you only buy in 50% of the games it appears in is pretty weak. But if you buy less than half of the Kingdom cards, then a card you buy in 50% of games is strong.
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AdamH

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2015, 11:09:43 am »
+9

It's still pretty brutal and often must buy.

"Often" doesn't seem like the word for me. I think she's ignorable on over 50% of boards.

I am not a native English speaker, but always thought that 50% pretty mush falls into "often" category :P

Touché

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2015, 10:57:29 pm »
0

I unthinkingly rated Ghost Ship higher than Wharf and I think that may have skewed my ratings.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2015, 04:20:57 pm »
+2

also, i think the $4s may be the most interesting group to debate. a good number of cards that have fallen (sea hag) or risen (remake, herald, ironmonger) as the game's evolved.

personally i don't see much of an argument for herald over wandering minstrel. WM just does so much to accelerate your deck in the early going (whereas herald struggles with the junk cards), and it's *especially* key for engines without trashing.  the latter is big in my mind, as i've come to see those as some of the main games that separate top players from the rest.  heck, i'd probably put ironmonger above herald just because of how much better it is at the beginning - i'm finding that the early game matters more than the end, more often than not.

I'm going to put this out there. Despite what AdamH says about Sea Hag, I still ranked it #1 for $4 cards. Contrary to popular belief, cursing is still really good even with good trashing. Now, I know Adam shares an opinion different than mine, but my experience with Sea Hag is that the card is really good unless MB or Witch or something else that costs $5 is on the board.
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GwinnR

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2015, 05:43:13 pm »
0

First: Thanks a lot again for this great job!

Second: Some questions...
1) If I am only doing the duells with all cards, does it get the other lists automaticly?
2) Is there a rule, which card is on the left or right site? E.g. the card, which is now higher ranked is on the right site?
3) When I do a duell, there is sometimes a big change in the whole list. How does this work? Is there a thing like Buchholz (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feinwertung#Buchholz-Wertung)?
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2015, 07:04:36 am »
+3

First: Thanks a lot again for this great job!

Second: Some questions...
1) If I am only doing the duells with all cards, does it get the other lists automaticly?
2) Is there a rule, which card is on the left or right site? E.g. the card, which is now higher ranked is on the right site?
3) When I do a duell, there is sometimes a big change in the whole list. How does this work? Is there a thing like Buchholz (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feinwertung#Buchholz-Wertung)?

1) Yes, but of course only the kingdom cards. You have to rank Ruins, Knights and Prizes individually.
2) The left card is the card with the highest "uncertainty value" and the right card is its fitting duel partner based on several criteria.
3) Not sure how to explain it. It calculates a percentage value based on how many cards are above and how many cards are below that card. If you rank now A>B and B is already better than C, D, E and F, then it adds all the cards B-F to the list of cards which are below the card and therefore the percentage value is much higher and it rises in the list.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2015, 07:05:29 am »
0

Did mine go through? I didn't see a 'turn in' button, so I just left my rankings as they were.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2015, 07:11:55 am »
0

Did mine go through? I didn't see a 'turn in' button, so I just left my rankings as they were.

It's fine. There isn't a "turn in" button. You can adjust your rating until the deadline.

Roadrunner7671

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2015, 07:18:00 am »
0

Did mine go through? I didn't see a 'turn in' button, so I just left my rankings as they were.

It's fine. There isn't a "turn in" button. You can adjust your rating until the deadline.
Thanks!
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assemble_me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #71 on: October 16, 2015, 07:19:46 am »
0

3) When I do a duell, there is sometimes a big change in the whole list. How does this work? Is there a thing like Buchholz (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feinwertung#Buchholz-Wertung)?
3) Not sure how to explain it. It calculates a percentage value based on how many cards are above and how many cards are below that card. If you rank now A>B and B is already better than C, D, E and F, then it adds all the cards B-F to the list of cards which are below the card and therefore the percentage value is much higher and it rises in the list.

It should be in average n * log (n) although my code might certainly not be optimal. That's roughly 160 comparisms for the biggest list ($5).

You said n*log(n) comparisons, so I guess the duels just work like a Quicksort.
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terminalCopper

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2015, 07:26:10 am »
+8

Did mine go through? I didn't see a 'turn in' button, so I just left my rankings as they were.

Rankings with Scout above the bottom 3 are automatically refused.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #73 on: October 16, 2015, 07:28:18 am »
0

Quote from: terminalCopper link=topic=14011 .msg532329#msg532329 date=1444994770
Did mine go through? I didn't see a 'turn in' button, so I just left my rankings as they were.

Rankings with Scout above the bottom 3 are automatically refused.
  :'( :'( :'(
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Hugovj

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition
« Reply #74 on: October 16, 2015, 07:56:48 am »
+1

Scout is awesome in Intrigue- Act 1, game 4, I believe. You'll like it.
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