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[Cave-o-sapien]

Did I miss something where MF said that disabling animations was too difficult to implement?

Or is this just a design choice?

[Watno]

They claimed to have put it on their to-do-list half a year ago. Nothing happened since then.

[popsofctown]

They should at least be like Blizzard and say they want to force players to subject themselves to them whether they like it or not

[Cave-o-sapien]

They should at least be like Blizzard and say they want to force players to subject themselves to them whether they like it or not

Yep.

I mean, it seems kind of silly for people on both sides to be arguing that this is just too difficult for them to do if it's a design choice.

[LastFootnote]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

[Drab Emordnilap]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

In my head, what he was describing was a non 100% opaque X,'so the card was still visible through it. Obviously the more visible you make the X, the less visible you make the card through the X.

[GendoIkari]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

I think the real answer is to first select the cards you want to trash/discard, and then press a button for trash/discard. Isotropic did something like this, though there you had to use a separate interface than your actual hand to make the selections, so that wasn't good. In my Temporum client, as you select each item in your hand, it moves upward to separate it from other cards in your hand.

[yed]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

I think the real answer is to first select the cards you want to trash/discard, and then press a button for trash/discard. Isotropic did something like this, though there you had to use a separate interface than your actual hand to make the selections, so that wasn't good. In my Temporum client, as you select each item in your hand, it moves upward to separate it from other cards in your hand.

No, that is one more click. Too slow...

[popsofctown]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

Um, X's leave something visible in the north, south, east, and west part of the card.  Fortunately the name is in the north part of the card, which should tell you everything you need to know about the card.  If you can't remember whether Nobles is also an action card because the red crossbar is blocking the typeline, I think you're fated to make a bad trashing decision anyway.

[Drab Emordnilap]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

Um, X's leave something visible in the north, south, east, and west part of the card.  Fortunately the name is in the north part of the card, which should tell you everything you need to know about the card.  If you can't remember whether Nobles is also an action card because the red crossbar is blocking the typeline, I think you're fated to make a bad trashing decision anyway.

If I play Chapel, and big red Xs obscure every card in my hand, and I want to trash that one card that lets me gain an attack, but I can't remember which one that was, that information should be as easy as possible to acquire.

[GendoIkari]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

Um, X's leave something visible in the north, south, east, and west part of the card.  Fortunately the name is in the north part of the card, which should tell you everything you need to know about the card.  If you can't remember whether Nobles is also an action card because the red crossbar is blocking the typeline, I think you're fated to make a bad trashing decision anyway.

Well probably the most important part in being able to make a good decision to trash is the ability to see the card art, because I'm assuming most people identify cards based on the art moreso than they check the name line. But I still agree with your point; an X through the card isn't going to be enough to stop you from quickly identifying the card based on the art.

[GendoIkari]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

Um, X's leave something visible in the north, south, east, and west part of the card.  Fortunately the name is in the north part of the card, which should tell you everything you need to know about the card.  If you can't remember whether Nobles is also an action card because the red crossbar is blocking the typeline, I think you're fated to make a bad trashing decision anyway.

If I play Chapel, and big red Xs obscure every card in my hand, and I want to trash that one card that lets me gain an attack, but I can't remember which one that was, that information should be as easy as possible to acquire.

Hmmm, I guess I have to agree with you. If someone is looking at that card and trying to decide if they want to keep it for the on-play money, or trash it for the attack, then they'd have to go through extra effort to figure out how much the on-play money is.

[popsofctown]

Is there something I'm missing that will make it impossible for you to view the card in the supply in the event you bought a card but forgot what it does?

I thought most players have a card memorized by the time they've chosen to make it part of their deck.

[popsofctown]

Also, I thought Donald's suggestion was that the red X only appears on mouseover.  So to view the information, you move the mouse just a little in like, any direction, and bam, the information is available to you.  So that information is "as easy as possible to acquire". 

[Voltaire]

I thought most players have a card memorized by the time they've chosen to make it part of their deck.

We are not most players.

[GendoIkari]

I thought most players have a card memorized by the time they've chosen to make it part of their deck.

We are not most players.

Yeah this. I think it's pretty likely that a more casual player, the type who doesn't spend time on forums about Dominion strategy, will sometimes, if not often, not know what a card does when it's in his hand. And in that case, looking up to the supply to find the same card is a step that he shouldn't have to take. However, if indeed the red x only appears on mouseover, then I think that's just perfect.

[popsofctown]

I thought most players have a card memorized by the time they've chosen to make it part of their deck.

We are not most players.

Yeah this. I think it's pretty likely that a more casual player, the type who doesn't spend time on forums about Dominion strategy

Yeah, but we are like, discussing a patch that is circulated primarily through a forum about Dominionstrategy, so like, that's the relevant subgroup !??!?!?!?!?!!?

[GendoIkari]

I thought most players have a card memorized by the time they've chosen to make it part of their deck.

We are not most players.

Yeah this. I think it's pretty likely that a more casual player, the type who doesn't spend time on forums about Dominion strategy

Yeah, but we are like, discussing a patch that is circulated primarily through a forum about Dominionstrategy, so like, that's the relevant subgroup !??!?!?!?!?!!?

Best counterpoint ever. Touche.

[assemble_me]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

I think the real answer is to first select the cards you want to trash/discard, and then press a button for trash/discard. Isotropic did something like this, though there you had to use a separate interface than your actual hand to make the selections, so that wasn't good. In my Temporum client, as you select each item in your hand, it moves upward to separate it from other cards in your hand.

I really really like this. That would be the best solution for me. You have your hand and then you have that kind of layer (like the one you have for example when looking at the cards from Black Market or something like that). You click on the cards and they get moved to that layer. If you have misclicked and chosen a wrong card, you can click on the card in that layer and the card will be moved back to your hand (Click safety 1). After you've finished choosing you have to click a button that says trash or discard (safety 2). But also, I guess that's really something to implement and I doubt it can be done easily. Also, it actually might be a bit annoying with cards like Hamlet.

[Voltaire]

I thought most players have a card memorized by the time they've chosen to make it part of their deck.

We are not most players.

Yeah this. I think it's pretty likely that a more casual player, the type who doesn't spend time on forums about Dominion strategy

Yeah, but we are like, discussing a patch that is circulated primarily through a forum about Dominionstrategy, so like, that's the relevant subgroup !??!?!?!?!?!!?

I thought we were talking about our dreams for what MF itself should do...but I now see your point.

[popsofctown]

I thought most players have a card memorized by the time they've chosen to make it part of their deck.

We are not most players.

Yeah this. I think it's pretty likely that a more casual player, the type who doesn't spend time on forums about Dominion strategy

Yeah, but we are like, discussing a patch that is circulated primarily through a forum about Dominionstrategy, so like, that's the relevant subgroup !??!?!?!?!?!!?

I thought we were talking about our dreams for what MF itself should do...but I now see your point.

The red X originally came from Donald's suggestion for SCSN's patch, so yeah, that is what we've been talking about.

[Voltaire]

I'm just off in this fantasy-land where clean functional UI can coexist with pleasing graphic design by the official programmer for Dominion online so...someone hold me. 

[Donald X.]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

I think the real answer is to first select the cards you want to trash/discard, and then press a button for trash/discard. Isotropic did something like this, though there you had to use a separate interface than your actual hand to make the selections, so that wasn't good. In my Temporum client, as you select each item in your hand, it moves upward to separate it from other cards in your hand.

Yes that would be good. It seems beyond the scope for SCSN though.

I don't like the gauntlet, but yes a different cursor would do the trick too.

Obv. it has to be possible to read all cards no matter what (which it isn't), so obscuring text with the X isn't an issue (once that's otherwise fixed). Mostly I will know how many coins Squire makes, and when I don't I can go look, and that extra trouble is nothing next to trashing a card I thought I was playing.

[Cave-o-sapien]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

I think the real answer is to first select the cards you want to trash/discard, and then press a button for trash/discard. Isotropic did something like this, though there you had to use a separate interface than your actual hand to make the selections, so that wasn't good. In my Temporum client, as you select each item in your hand, it moves upward to separate it from other cards in your hand.

No, that is one more click. Too slow...

I'd like this option for multiple-selection discards or trashes, but if it's just a single card I would prefer only a single click (or no click for Moneylender).

(and I'm not sure I can explain why this doesn't seem inconsistent to me)

[Chris is me]

- When picking a card to trash or return-to-supply, put a giant red X over the entire card image. No amount of highlighting does the trick.
- When picking a card to discard or put-on-deck, put a giant left arrow over the card image.

Maybe you're picturing something different from what I'm picturing, but wouldn't a giant red X obscure the card itself?

Now that they've got the gauntlet hand cursor, maybe there could be separate cursors for trashing and discarding.

I think the real answer is to first select the cards you want to trash/discard, and then press a button for trash/discard. Isotropic did something like this, though there you had to use a separate interface than your actual hand to make the selections, so that wasn't good. In my Temporum client, as you select each item in your hand, it moves upward to separate it from other cards in your hand.

Yes that would be good. It seems beyond the scope for SCSN though.

I don't like the gauntlet, but yes a different cursor would do the trick too.

Obv. it has to be possible to read all cards no matter what (which it isn't), so obscuring text with the X isn't an issue (once that's otherwise fixed). Mostly I will know how many coins Squire makes, and when I don't I can go look, and that extra trouble is nothing next to trashing a card I thought I was playing.

A simple solution would be to put the X over just the art of the card. Still visible, doesn't block anything vital.