Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Cultist or Witch  (Read 2246 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bedlam

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
  • Respect: +72
    • View Profile
Cultist or Witch
« on: October 10, 2015, 05:18:07 am »
0

Gear, Steward, Masquerade, Smugglers, Workshop, Horn of plenty, Plaza, Stables, Cultist, Witch
Events: Quest, Ferry

4 player IRL (no log)

I went for Cultists (which were ignored by all the other players, they hadn't seen it much and were unfamiliar with it) and got about 5 before I started greening. I had used the ferry to make my cultists cost 3, then gained them and plazas with a workshop. The plazas went quickly as they were the only source of actions and were the first empty pile. No one touched masquerade or HOP. We used steward for trashing. Quest was used a lot to gain golds as people would use stables to draw cards then buy a Quest to discard their mostly ruins and cursed hand to gain a gold. Witch was an afterthought with only a couple of them purchased.

I ended up winning with 31 points (5 Provinces plus other stuff and curses). But I think my deck could have been more streamlined. What would you buy here? Is witch stronger than cultist on this board? How many cultists do you buy when they are uncontested? Do you continue to buy them after the ruins are gone, or do you switch to witches? The guys I play with still look at me funny when I trash coppers but they all started to buy stewards when the ruins and curses became too much for their deck to bear.

I still don't know how to play HoP. Would it have worked here or does it need a more reliable source of actions to get more cards in play? I guess I was playing plazas, cultists, stewards, and treasures on most of my hands so it would have been worth 4-5 regularly.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11405
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +12199
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 05:32:14 am »
+1

I don't know anything about 4-player games, but in general, Cultist is stronger than Witch, and if you want to go for both, you want to go for Cultist first.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

ehunt

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1480
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1759
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 05:49:17 am »
+2

I don't know anything about 4-player games, but in general, Cultist is stronger than Witch, and if you want to go for both, you want to go for Cultist first.

this + the one thing I do happen to know about 4-player games, which is that if strategies A and B are close and the other 3 choose B and you choose A, your odds are good (exceptions: some rushes, City)
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2621
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2015, 06:53:33 am »
0

This game is almost bound to be a rushed 3 pile ending. Masquerades usually gives more economy than steward and that looks important here to get a deck up and running before it gets junked out. Cultists are going to be better than witch because of the quest and the way that curses can get passed between players by masquerade. Ferries for gold look ideal. Workshop and Horn of Plenty could be taken out of the equation just because the game could end so early on a duchy rush.

Of course, group think will change this, so if all the players all decide to build a horn of plenty deck with stables and light trashing then that might look good!
Logged

faust

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2740
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3825
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2015, 08:33:21 am »
+1

4 player IRL (no log)

Do you mean you don't keep logs for IRL games?!
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2848
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2015, 02:10:30 pm »
+1

4 player IRL (no log)

Do you mean you don't keep logs for IRL games?!

My understanding was that some of them do, but this one didn't.  Maybe because they added the 4th player so it just became a bit much.
Logged

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1154
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1719
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2015, 06:24:16 pm »
+1

4 player IRL (no log)

Do you mean you don't keep logs for IRL games?!

My understanding was that some of them do, but this one didn't.  Maybe because they added the 4th player so it just became a bit much.
I think it was a joke
Logged

Roadrunner7671

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1845
  • Shuffle iT Username: Roadrunner7672
  • Forum Mafia Record: 18-33-2
  • Respect: +1343
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2015, 06:25:59 pm »
+1

4 player IRL (no log)

Do you mean you don't keep logs for IRL games?!

My understanding was that some of them do, but this one didn't.  Maybe because they added the 4th player so it just became a bit much.
I think it was a joke
Well, we all know how they get funnier...
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1154
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1719
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2015, 06:28:23 pm »
0

Regarding Cultist vs. Witch... Cultist us generally better because you can play multiple of them per turn more easily.  Yes, a Ruin is not quite as bad as a Curse, but having 8 Ruins is generally much worse than having 3 Curses.
Logged

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +352
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 05:32:21 pm »
+2

Regarding Cultist vs. Witch... Cultist us generally better because you can play multiple of them per turn more easily.  Yes, a Ruin is not quite as bad as a Curse, but having 8 Ruins is generally much worse than having 3 Curses.

That doesn't work in 3-4 player games as junkers behave very differently. In four-player game cultist is worse than any curser (maybe except familiar) and even marauder is better.

Junking will happen too fast so cultist advantage will be insignificant, if other three players went double-witch then in shuffle when you could first play two cultists you have three curses in deck and opponents will likely on that shuffle give you additional 4-6 curses so you wont accomplish much by getting third cultist and you are ten points behind.

In 4p games best curser is swindler as if opponents open double swindler by time you hit first 5 you would likely want to buy duchy, followed by sea hag, then young witch unless there is good bane.

This board is more complicated as depending what others play junkers may be skippable as there is possibility of HoP megaturn if you manage trash fast enough.

As masquarade/steward here I like more steward as hitting 5 after first HoP isnt that important and you could use ferry on stables or something like that.

How you described your game I would open steward/quarry, then get second steward, HoP on first 5 otherwise get stables/plaza/silver/gold which is enough for gaining provinces by HoP. Once you get enough stables to draw your deck you could trash incoming curses/ruins each turn. I would gain witch/cultist if at most one other player bought one. Also consider yourself lucky if you could get ruined market.
Logged

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1238
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1177
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 05:50:07 pm »
0

That doesn't work in 3-4 player games as junkers behave very differently. In four-player game cultist is worse than any curser (maybe except familiar) and even marauder is better.
This is true but in 3-4 player you should be doing what your opponents are not.
For example: in 3 player If two players go Witch then your opponents split ten curses and you get the other ten. Your opponents both get 10 ruins each because of your cultists. You only have have ten pieces of junk and your opponents have an average of 15 junks.
Ferries for gold look ideal.
Ferries only works on actions.  :(
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 05:54:45 pm by Limetime »
Logged

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +352
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2015, 08:25:59 pm »
0

That doesn't work in 3-4 player games as junkers behave very differently. In four-player game cultist is worse than any curser (maybe except familiar) and even marauder is better.
This is true but in 3-4 player you should be doing what your opponents are not.
For example: in 3 player If two players go Witch then your opponents split ten curses and you get the other ten. Your opponents both get 10 ruins each because of your cultists. You only have have ten pieces of junk and your opponents have an average of 15 junks.

No that is just heuristic, you need good strategy that becomes better than one with contested piles. Otherwise you could win multiplayer games with scout-bm as nobody else does that.

You need to choose strategy that lets you win. Here you will almost certainly lose on piles due ten point difference as by the time you empty ruins opponents already rushed duchies. Also several last ruins doesn't matter much as opponents wont shuffle/see them in bloated deck.
Logged

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1238
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1177
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2015, 09:42:35 pm »
0

That doesn't work in 3-4 player games as junkers behave very differently. In four-player game cultist is worse than any curser (maybe except familiar) and even marauder is better.
This is true but in 3-4 player you should be doing what your opponents are not.
For example: in 3 player If two players go Witch then your opponents split ten curses and you get the other ten. Your opponents both get 10 ruins each because of your cultists. You only have have ten pieces of junk and your opponents have an average of 15 junks.

No that is just heuristic, you need good strategy that becomes better than one with contested piles. Otherwise you could win multiplayer games with scout-bm as nobody else does that.

You need to choose strategy that lets you win. Here you will almost certainly lose on piles due ten point difference as by the time you empty ruins opponents already rushed duchies. Also several last ruins doesn't matter much as opponents wont shuffle/see them in bloated deck.
A good strategy was implied when I said strategy. Cultist is a better card once the ruins are gone and with a good cultist density one should not find troubles hitting 8 with a little bit of money. A deck with 15 junks will find a hard time hitting 5 for duchies.
I wish that the simulatiors could provide insight on this but they don't have cultists :(
Logged

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +352
    • View Profile
Re: Cultist or Witch
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2015, 03:59:23 pm »
0

That doesn't work in 3-4 player games as junkers behave very differently. In four-player game cultist is worse than any curser (maybe except familiar) and even marauder is better.
This is true but in 3-4 player you should be doing what your opponents are not.
For example: in 3 player If two players go Witch then your opponents split ten curses and you get the other ten. Your opponents both get 10 ruins each because of your cultists. You only have have ten pieces of junk and your opponents have an average of 15 junks.

No that is just heuristic, you need good strategy that becomes better than one with contested piles. Otherwise you could win multiplayer games with scout-bm as nobody else does that.

You need to choose strategy that lets you win. Here you will almost certainly lose on piles due ten point difference as by the time you empty ruins opponents already rushed duchies. Also several last ruins doesn't matter much as opponents wont shuffle/see them in bloated deck.
A good strategy was implied when I said strategy. Cultist is a better card once the ruins are gone and with a good cultist density one should not find troubles hitting 8 with a little bit of money. A deck with 15 junks will find a hard time hitting 5 for duchies.
I wish that the simulatiors could provide insight on this but they don't have cultists :(

My point is that it wont happen and thus your strategy is bad. With three other players cursing you its quite hard to hit 5 and get enough cultist to matter.

You could try play same number 4p games versus bots with witch and with cultist in following kingdom and see which gives you better winning percentage. Its kingdom where bots play reasonably well witch-bureaucrat bm. I tried other kingdoms with witch and cultist bots didn't bought any junker, or they for 5 bought feast etc, I submitted most fail kingdom in separate thread.

chancellor, thief, witch, cultist, bueraucrat, coppersmith, soothsayer, counting house, feast, pearl diver
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.077 seconds with 20 queries.