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[catsclaw]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/11/game-20120111-062701-0234d1a1.html

I was playing as Fin Fang Foom.  Both I and my opponent went for Fool's Gold at the start.  My opponent detoured into Golds during the initial Fool's Gold rush, which I thought was a mistake, but it didn't hurt him at all (we ended up splitting them 5/5 anyway).

From there, though, the game bogged down.  I hoped to be able to cycle through my coppers by using Inns and Rabbles, but that didn't work at all.  My opponent fared better by picking up a few Platinums, but his deck bogged down just after mine did.  I resigned after having three consecutive turns where I couldn't buy anything.

I'm not sure what a good strategy on this board actually is.  I think you need to rush the Fool's Golds just so your opponent can't get them all, but then maybe buy some Platinums and use a Mint to get rid of your Coppers and Fool's Golds?  What's the right way to play this board?

[Davio]

I think there's only a wrong way...

I don't like FG on a Colony board, especially if there's no trashing.
The power of FG comes from grouping; if you can't group them, there's no use.

I've looked at the log and could only find 3 turns in which 3 or more FG's were played.

Also, in Colony games, a few high value Treasures are worth more than a bunch low ones.


I think I would've just played a BMU-type game with 2 Rabbles and maybe some Inns for their Warehousing effect.
Maybe you could've gotten something going with Bridge and Inn...

[RisingJaguar]

I agree, I think FG was not the way to go here... nor is it ever really a viable option in colony games. 

I think BM as Davio suggested is pretty strong here as well as Vineyard opportunities.  Inn should allow you to repeat the same process at a good rate and Bridges give the necessary +buy needed for Vineyards.  Just avoiding Colonies altogether will make it a long time before they are able to clear out the pile. 

[dondon151]

I agree, I think FG was not the way to go here... nor is it ever really a viable option in colony games. 

FG is a good option in Colony games with strong-ish trashing, although in general they're best used as a gateway to Platinum rather than as a money source all on their own.

[Epoch]

I note that you split the FG's 6/4 in your favor, not 5/5.  (You end with 5 FGs -- that's because you trashed one).

I like using a Mint to clear out your Coppers in this game.

[Jorbles]

I’m going to disagree with some of the other posters and say it was correct to go for Fool’s Gold in this situation, but only because your opponent is also going for them (which he clearly was starting from his first purchase). They may not be the best strategy on this board, but if your opponent buys 10 FGs unanswered you’re going to lose. That said I think you ended up relying on your FGs too much and your economy broke down.

I think where this game went south is when you didn’t invest in Platinums and your opponent did. On turn 11 you had $11 money and two buys (Bridge had reduced the cost of everything by $1 also), but you bought Rabble+Inn, instead of Platinum+Scout or Platinum+Bridge or just Platinum. Though I'd be interested in seeing how it might have ended if someone had followed RisingJaguar's suggestion and ignored Colonies attempting to end the game on Provinces or Three-Piling (some sort of Vineyard strategy would seem necessary to come into play here, which I have a hard time envisioning as there aren't the sort of cheap actions that really gets big points there)

Also as Epoch said if you had tried to engineer a Mint buy to clear out Coppers it would have been a big help, also.

[RisingJaguar]

Yeah I noticed after that there are <$4 actions makes it much more difficult, making vineyards a harder investment.  With that said, I believe that Inn can help organize large turns in order to spam actions on those turns.  With the Mint there as well, you can essentially eliminate all your coppers/silvers on one of those mega turns. 

I love my vineyard engines so I may be biased, but I think you can reach 30 actions faster than the opponent reaching 8 colonies.

[WanderingWinder]

Yeah I noticed after that there are <$4 actions makes it much more difficult, making vineyards a harder investment.  With that said, I believe that Inn can help organize large turns in order to spam actions on those turns.  With the Mint there as well, you can essentially eliminate all your coppers/silvers on one of those mega turns. 

I love my vineyard engines so I may be biased, but I think you can reach 30 actions faster than the opponent reaching 8 colonies.

You need to get 30 actions AND all 8 vineyards though.... not sure how that will work.

[RisingJaguar]

Yeah I noticed after that there are <$4 actions makes it much more difficult, making vineyards a harder investment.  With that said, I believe that Inn can help organize large turns in order to spam actions on those turns.  With the Mint there as well, you can essentially eliminate all your coppers/silvers on one of those mega turns. 

I love my vineyard engines so I may be biased, but I think you can reach 30 actions faster than the opponent reaching 8 colonies.

You need to get 30 actions AND all 8 vineyards though.... not sure how that will work.

Am I the only crazy one? =(

For the first... 8-9 turns, I would purchase rabbles/inn/bridges/silvers/...
2. Buy an Inn at the end of a shuffle to build a megaturn (this is probably a flimsy proposition, but its what i thought) in order to buy a mint and remove all treasure (on the following turn), probably keep a silver but all would be gone ideally. 
3. I should be able at this point to purchase more Inns/Bridges if the megaturn went correctly...
4. With Bridges and Inns play, I should be able to gain 3-4 actions a turn. 

Again this is probably a flimsy idea but i would rely on this than FG because its more fun.  Even if that mega turn goes awry, its not as harmful to this engine because Inn acts as a mini warehouse.

[DG]

You're not the only crazy one but I had a shuffle up and it isn't so easy. Inns don't really empower the mint since they reduce hand size. Nevertheless I think this is a kingdom where you've got to create opportunities for specific good draws to happen, such as mint or top decked treasure maps, and then capitalize on what the draws give you.

[jotheonah]

The frustrating thing about using a Mint buy to get rid of all your treasure is then the Mint is such a dead card.

[jonts26]

The frustrating thing about chapel is that once you get rid of estates and coppers its a dead card.

It's really not a bad trade to make.

[Epoch]

The frustrating thing about using a Mint buy to get rid of all your treasure is then the Mint is such a dead card.

Mint is certainly not a dead card after you get rid of all your treasure, especially in a game with Inn/Rabble.  Look, you want Platinum in this game.

[DG]

The frustrating thing about using a Mint buy to get rid of all your treasure is then the Mint is such a dead card.

A full mint strategy will either mint good treasures or trash the mint itself out for value. It's not much use as an expensive, one shot, mid-game chapel.

[RisingJaguar]

FWIW, I tried to play a solitaire game and got to 31 actions + 8 vineyards in 28ish turns, i'll edit in the logs later.  I thought I played sub-optimally quite a few times as I was bored, so it might be a bit better, you can be the judge. 

I manage to do similarly to what I said although the mega turn I was hoping for was later than planned.  I also noticed that trashing the coppers wasn't all that helpful because Inn's discard properties requires a few dead cards.  The question is, is this faster or 10FGs to 8 colonies with rabble fire?

Also to note, this strategy is useless with 5/2 Mint/FG start.

[jotheonah]

The frustrating thing about using a Mint buy to get rid of all your treasure is then the Mint is such a dead card.

A full mint strategy will either mint good treasures or trash the mint itself out for value. It's not much use as an expensive, one shot, mid-game chapel.

This is what I was trying to say. If you still have Gold and/or Platinum, you didn't trash all your treasure. I'm talking about using Mint to build a truly treasureless deck for a double-tactician engine or a 4p Pirate Ship game or something.