Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[popsofctown]

Genesis
1$ Event
+2 Buys
Trash your hand.  Trash your deck.  Trash your discard pile.  Trash your play area.

[LastFootnote]

Whoa. That seems pretty extreme. I'm a bit worried about it strongly favoring certain openings. For instance, if your first hand has $4, you could buy this, then buy Swindler and Copper. I guess the other players could also do it within the first 2 turns, though, and then they'd have no Swindler targets. You see what I mean, though. Probably you'd have to test this to see how it really plays out.

[popsofctown]

I compared it to Chapel in the title for a reason.

I didn't realize the super-Nomad camp trend on 3/4 vs. 4/3 though.  Hrm.

[AJD]

Turn 1: Buy Squire!

[popsofctown]

It seems nontrivial to decide how many squires to buy before buying Genesis.

[skip wooznum]

Any squires that are in your deck or hand won't end up helping though, because the gained attack will just be trashed from your discard pile. At least, unless the wording is changed.

[Titandrake]

How does this work with set-aside cards (NV, Island, Haven, Prince), and with your Tavern Mat?

Also, this might be broken with Possession. On a possessed turn, if you trash a card, it gets returned to your discard at end of turn after cleanup. So, you buy Genesis on your opponent's turn, they trash everything, next turn they have 0 cards because their deck was empty during cleanup. Nice and easy pin, which works as long as their deck can produce $1 every turn.

[popsofctown]

Tavern mat is supposed to be free shenanigans. 

Possession pin is a problem if you're the type to get butthurt by strong attacks and alternate win conditions.  If you accept that the Possession pin replaces Provinces as the wincons here, the way colonies do and the way the less popular kc-masquerade-goons do, you should be fine.  There's no reason to believe that the Possession pin degenerates to Possession BM as much as Rebuild does.

[Titandrake]

I'm not worried about Possession-BM. I'm worried about engine mirrors where both players gun for Possession, and the first player to hit Possession can play one every turn, changing the game into a 50/50 crapshoot. It is a fan card though, you can always house rule that it's not allowed to be out with Possession at the same time.

[popsofctown]

I'm not worried about Possession-BM. I'm worried about engine mirrors where both players gun for Possession, and the first player to hit Possession can play one every turn, changing the game into a 50/50 crapshoot. It is a fan card though, you can always house rule that it's not allowed to be out with Possession at the same time.

My point is that it will NEVER be Possession BM, it will be an engine mirror.  Building a deck that can draw itself every turn might be somewhat at odds with building a deck that spikes to 6P early.  And optimizing an engine is difficult.  It is a difficult mirror to play, not one you can write in two lines of code.  It's in no way a "50/50 crapshoot"  Not anymore than being the first one to buy a 5th province is a 50/50 crapshoot unless the strategies to get there were something super simple like Woodcutter into FG BM or something.

[scott_pilgrim]

Right, it is no more of a crapshoot than KC-Bridge games are a crapshoot because the first player to KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge wins.

The only concern I have with the Possession interaction is that it doesn't immediately end the game like KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge, so if the other player isn't certain you will win or doesn't resign for whatever reason, it makes the game very anti-fun for them.

[Titandrake]

I was all set to be mad, but took some time to think about it, and I'll concede the point.

I still think this interaction is annoying. I'd estimate that games "end" in around half as many turns as if this event wasn't on the board, and shorter games are naturally going to have more variance. The closest comparison is to Tournament. You can be more skillful in spiking the Province early, and still lose because you didn't draw Province with Tournament, or your Province was at the end of the shuffle. This is more extreme than that scenario, which already worries me. Note that even if you can't play Possession every turn, it's likely you can buy more Possession when playing with your opponent's deck, so even a soft Possession pin is hard to come back from.

PPE: KC-Bridge games actually are a crapshoot, but for different reasons. KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge usually isn't how those games end. What happens is someone hits KC-Bridge, snowballs ridiculously, then hits KC-KC-draw-Bridge-Bridge for the 3 pile. So, you get a crazy first turn advantage. I see the point though.

[popsofctown]

I totally agree that it's less fun than a normal game, and it's a little abridged.  I think Tournament games are also less fun.

For a 1 card combo, it'd be intolerable.  For a two card combo, I think it's tolerable.

Torturer pins are another multicard, situational outcome where a game can languish pretty hard and in practice concession is the best solution.

[eHalcyon]

I totally agree that it's less fun than a normal game, and it's a little abridged.  I think Tournament games are also less fun.

For a 1 card combo, it'd be intolerable.  For a two card combo, I think it's tolerable.

I think you should consider it more like a 1.5 card combo, since you don't have to worry about drawing the combo pieces together when one of the pieces is an Event.

[popsofctown]

I meant 2 card combo in the sense that "it's unlikely a fully random kingdom generates this at all".

Although it's slightly easier to line up an event with a card in kingdom generation, so it's like a 1.9 card combo!?!?

[Asper]

You could make it once per game (and possibly make the effect optional). I admit the trash is the only way to track who bought it, but i don't think you want to get this more than once, either way. And the option to trash another player's deck is just too scary to not do anything about it. Not every player owns all sets, you know. Some of us see Possession more often.

[popsofctown]

But Alchemy is supposed to be like the last set you buy :/

[Accatitippi]

I had thought about something similar, but way more fiddly.
Portal - event 1P
After clean up this turn, set aside all your cards, except two. Put those in your hand, and gain a Curse, a Potion and a Copper, putting them in your hand.

[eHalcyon]

But Alchemy is supposed to be like the last set you buy :/

For many, it's part of the first.  Dominion Big Box, pops.

[Gubump]

I had thought about something similar, but way more fiddly.
Portal - event 1P
After clean up this turn, set aside all your cards, except two. Put those in your hand, and gain a Curse, a Potion and a Copper, putting them in your hand.

You need to specify whether "those" refers to the set aside cards or the two you didn't set aside. As written, it could be either.

[Accatitippi]

I had thought about something similar, but way more fiddly.
Portal - event 1P
After clean up this turn, set aside all your cards, except two. Put those in your hand, and gain a Curse, a Potion and a Copper, putting them in your hand.

You need to specify whether "those" refers to the set aside cards or the two you didn't set aside. As written, it could be either.

Good catch, thanks.
I think using "these" should fix it, alternatively I'd use "those two". But it's really unlikely that I'll ever print this out to test it.
Portal - event 1P
After clean up this turn, set aside all your cards, except two. Put these in your hand, and gain a Curse, a Potion and a Copper, putting them in your hand.