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Author Topic: Tomato Patch  (Read 8330 times)

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popsofctown

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Tomato Patch
« on: September 29, 2015, 01:48:40 pm »
+1

Tomato Patch
4$ Action Victory
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
Worth 1 VP
_________________________
In games using this, whenever you buy a card, you may gain a Tomato Patch.

(There are 4 times as many Tomato Patches available as a normal kingdom victory card)


Second draft

Tomato Patch
3$ Action Victory
+2 Actions
+1$
+1 Buy
Worth 1 VP
__________________________
In games using this, when you gain Silver or Gold, you may gain a Tomato Patch.

[Stack of 48]

BEST DRAFT

2$ Tomato Patch
Action- Victory
+2 Actions
__________________
Worth 1 VP
__________________
In games using this, when you buy a card, you may gain a Tomato Patch.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 12:52:23 pm by popsofctown »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2015, 02:15:47 pm »
0

Tomato Patch
4$ Action Victory
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
Worth 1 VP
_________________________
In games using this, whenever you buy a card, you may gain a Tomato Patch.

(There are 4 times as many Tomato Patches available as a normal kingdom victory card)

Looks really strong whenever there's terminal draw or especially draw-to-x.
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faust

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2015, 02:19:07 pm »
0

I think this might be too strong with too many Alt-VPs. Vineyards? Bonkers. Silk Road? Bonkers. Gardens? Pretty damn good.

It's also interesting that you will almost never buy this card. Thus the pricing is mostly irrelevant, but at $4, I think it is brokenly good with TfB (Apprentice-Tomato Patch is a no-brainer); compare Rats, which are much harder to gain. I would cost it at $2 or even one, but alas, it is strictly better than Estate.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 02:19:53 pm »
0

It's stronger than I would want it to be with Draw to X, but what can you do.

With Terminal draw I don't think the algorithm is "gain a Tomato Patch every single time you buy a card", so I think it should be interesting?  If it is though, then that's a problem.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 02:20:46 pm »
0

I think this might be too strong with too many Alt-VPs. Vineyards? Bonkers. Silk Road? Bonkers. Gardens? Pretty damn good.

It's also interesting that you will almost never buy this card. Thus the pricing is mostly irrelevant, but at $4, I think it is brokenly good with TfB (Apprentice-Tomato Patch is a no-brainer); compare Rats, which are much harder to gain. I would cost it at $2 or even one, but alas, it is strictly better than Estate.

Hm, I agree that 2$ might be a better cost.  It's not strictly better than Estate in the sense that Estate helps you create pile pressure, so for that reason I think it's ok to put it at 2$.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 02:22:44 pm »
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It's stronger than I would want it to be with Draw to X, but what can you do.

With Terminal draw I don't think the algorithm is "gain a Tomato Patch every single time you buy a card", so I think it should be interesting?  If it is though, then that's a problem.

Well no, there is still tactics and interesting decisions on how many Tomato Patches you should get. I'm just saying that it makes any terminal draw card suddenly much better.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 02:24:36 pm »
0

I agree.  A bit like Fishing Village, maybe more extreme than FV
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GendoIkari

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 02:26:22 pm »
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I agree.  A bit like Fishing Village, maybe more extreme than FV

I think more extreme because at least with FV you still have to spend a turn to get one; so without +buy (and enough money to use the +buy) you can't buy a terminal draw every turn.
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markusin

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2015, 02:42:41 pm »
+1

You can have it give you the option to gain it only when you buy something costing more than it, or less than it. You'd adjust the cost as appropriate. Maybe you don't want to be able to gain these with every copper purchase.
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faust

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2015, 04:18:13 pm »
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I don't know if it makes terminal draw so much better... if I play BM, I still don't want Tomato Patch. If I play engine, then hopefully the board has a better village than Ruined Worker's Village.
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faust

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2015, 04:29:22 pm »
0

But my proposal is to get rid of one of the vanilla bonuses... I think it would often be less automatic, yet still good enough to be gained if it was one of

+2 actions
+1 buy

+2 actions

Worth 1 VP

+1 action
+1 buy

Worth 1 VP
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2015, 10:40:16 pm »
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The Necropolis one seems most interesting, actually.  I like that design the best.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2015, 11:10:39 pm »
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I don't know if it makes terminal draw so much better... if I play BM, I still don't want Tomato Patch. If I play engine, then hopefully the board has a better village than Ruined Worker's Village.

I think Worker's Village without the +card is plenty strong IF you don't have to spend any money or buys to get them.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2015, 11:17:25 am »
0

I think the biggest issue with Tomato Patch is that there are 48 copies of it. It would be trivial online, but there's no way it's worth almost 50 cards in a physical box, and it's a hard sell asking someone to proxy up 48 copies of a single Kingdom card. I could have 4 other cards instead!

As for the card itself, the latest version...

Tomato Patch
3$ Action Victory
+2 Actions
+1$
+1 Buy
Worth 1 VP
__________________________
In games using this, when you gain Silver or Gold, you may gain a Tomato Patch.

...is pretty strong for $3, nevermind getting it for free. I'd say that [+2 Actions; +1 Buy; +$1] is probably a decent $2 card. Add 1 VP onto that, and you're in $4 territory at least, I'll wager.

Also it needs two dividing lines; there should be one above "Worth 1 VP".
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2015, 12:50:42 pm »
0

I think the biggest issue with Tomato Patch is that there are 48 copies of it. It would be trivial online, but there's no way it's worth almost 50 cards in a physical box, and it's a hard sell asking someone to proxy up 48 copies of a single Kingdom card. I could have 4 other cards instead!

As for the card itself, the latest version...

Tomato Patch
3$ Action Victory
+2 Actions
+1$
+1 Buy
Worth 1 VP
__________________________
In games using this, when you gain Silver or Gold, you may gain a Tomato Patch.

...is pretty strong for $3, nevermind getting it for free. I'd say that [+2 Actions; +1 Buy; +$1] is probably a decent $2 card. Add 1 VP onto that, and you're in $4 territory at least, I'll wager.

Also it needs two dividing lines; there should be one above "Worth 1 VP".

Yeah but no one but you actual mocks up their fan cards, so it doesn't matter.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2015, 12:56:51 pm »
+1


Yeah but no one but you actual mocks up their fan cards, so it doesn't matter.

Now that's just patently untrue.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2015, 01:00:38 pm »
+1


Yeah but no one but you actual mocks up their fan cards, so it doesn't matter.

Now that's just patently untrue.

Yeah but I'm still butthurt so little of the mini-set design contest was playtested so I am lashing out at people
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tristan

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2015, 07:48:00 am »
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I like the Necro with a Buy most. Without the Buy I doubt that you'd for go for it except on boards without any other villages.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2015, 10:25:54 am »
0

With or without the vp, Tristan?
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Asper

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2015, 09:58:10 am »
+1

Just wanted to point out that the second draft allows emptying the Silver pile with Trader. Other than that, it's anice idea, if not a bit redundant to Gardens/Goons.
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singletee

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2015, 10:25:15 am »
0

Just wanted to point out that the second draft allows emptying the Silver pile with Trader. Other than that, it's anice idea, if not a bit redundant to Gardens/Goons.

Do you mean the Tomato Patch pile? It doesn't work that way, since would-gain happens before gain. Once you use Tomato Patch's ability, the time to use Trader has passed.

Edit: Never mind, I figured it out. Gain Silver, gain Tomato Patch, reveal Trader to Tomato Patch gain, repeat.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 10:30:45 am by singletee »
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2015, 11:43:24 am »
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Just wanted to point out that the second draft allows emptying the Silver pile with Trader. Other than that, it's anice idea, if not a bit redundant to Gardens/Goons.

I feel like the third draft is rather different from Gardens and Goons ( especially since it has no +buy)
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Asper

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2015, 12:08:25 pm »
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Just wanted to point out that the second draft allows emptying the Silver pile with Trader. Other than that, it's anice idea, if not a bit redundant to Gardens/Goons.

I feel like the third draft is rather different from Gardens and Goons ( especially since it has no +buy)

What i refer to is this: Gardens and Goons both reward you for getting cards. Goons does it each time you get one, Gardens at the end. Goons doesn't require a card that's worth Vp, Gardens does. Tomato Patch is a mix: It requires a card worth vp, and reacts to every single buy.

The fact it scales 1:1, unlike Gardens, and still requires a card per Vp, unlike Goons, is problematic (as was pointed out) for it causes need for around 50 identical cards.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2015, 01:00:21 pm »
0

Yeah, but like, if I actually print 50 of these for myself, that's ok?
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Asper

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Re: Tomato Patch
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2015, 02:50:57 pm »
+2

Yeah, but like, if I actually print 50 of these for myself, that's ok?

As far as i'm concerned, you can print 5000 of them.
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