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Author Topic: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Game Over!)  (Read 136545 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #675 on: October 21, 2015, 04:50:51 pm »

Also, I am not ashersky (because we're both really Wandering Winder) and can't really speak for him, but it's worth noting that he was scum and he was trying to win the game. I would assume that he said everything he said because he was scum trying to win the game, until there's a reason to believe otherwise.

Now hold on!

I have been purposely ignoring you all game because... well you annoy me.

But I have to jump in here.

Feelings are feelings no matter what. Sometimes people feel things when they are scum. Sometimes when they feel things they are town. Feelings rarely can be fabricated or manipulated to fit the context of a certain situation. Like right now. No matter my alignment. I am pretty annoyed with this statement.

And this idea, this pervasive idea that when people are mafia they aren't allowed to have feelings or be annoyed or frustrated or whatever (and that it all must be made up because they are mafia... and thus the scummy scum of the earth) is the main reason I left this game the first time. I have hopefully learned to not internalize that as much, but I am not going to stand by and let it be thrown out that whatever feelings ash had and expressed here on the forum (whether you agree or like them or not) aren't legitimate and real, regardless of how he tried to use them to his best ability.

That is bull shit. And I am calling it bull shit.

End rant. Not discussing this further because I don't want to derail... but I have been where ash has been before (so has ash, so have others for that matter) and if we want to keep this community as something then we need to stop making it so that people aren't constantly alienated out of this community for being told that their feelings aren't real when in fact they are.

Ash can speak more to this after the game if he wants. But I am saying here and now that I don't like it and I don't tolerate it.

I said I can't speak for ashersky. You can't speak for him either.

I wasn't really suggesting that people can't have feelings when they are scum in particular, just that it makes a lot more sense to pretend to have feelings you really don't have when you're scum. Obviously there are also times when it's beneficial for town to pretend to have feelings they really don't have, but this wasn't one of those times (and not just because ash was evidently not town).

Also, all of us have a lot of feelings that are in no way apparent from the posts we write. They could be if this was IRL, but we're just typing stuff by hitting keys on our keyboards and have all the time in the world to do so. It's not really difficult to manipulate what keys you hit. If you let your feelings hurt your alignment, that's just bad play.
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yuma

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #676 on: October 21, 2015, 04:58:32 pm »

Quote
So, you are verifying once and for all what an incredible waste of time it is for anyone to try to argue about this with you.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #677 on: October 21, 2015, 05:08:47 pm »

I still promised myself not to read anything Awaclus, said, but I don't think the statement in regards to Ashersky is off here, at least not how I read it.   
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Witherweaver

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #678 on: October 21, 2015, 05:09:59 pm »

Or maybe I missed something in what Ash said yesterday.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #679 on: October 21, 2015, 05:22:30 pm »

Is anyone going to vote for me?

I'm not very experienced at Mafia, but if I didn't like RR's character (which a lot of you don't), I would say something like this:

First, the Mafia told RR to act clueless.
They then tried to pin the blame on RR, knowing no one would vote for him.
Ashersky wasn't supposed to die, gkreig was supposed to go down.
When RR was found out, the remaining Mafia would've been the ones who originally voted for RR on day one or two.
Or something like that. Is anyone planning on voting for me?
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Witherweaver

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #680 on: October 21, 2015, 05:23:54 pm »

....

I just don't know how to read that.
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Awaclus

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #681 on: October 21, 2015, 05:24:26 pm »

Is anyone going to vote for me?

I'm not very experienced at Mafia, but if I didn't like RR's character (which a lot of you don't), I would say something like this:

First, the Mafia told RR to act clueless.
They then tried to pin the blame on RR, knowing no one would vote for him.
Ashersky wasn't supposed to die, gkreig was supposed to go down.
When RR was found out, the remaining Mafia would've been the ones who originally voted for RR on day one or two.
Or something like that. Is anyone planning on voting for me?

Uh... What?
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Haddock

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #682 on: October 21, 2015, 05:32:20 pm »

Let's start with vote: Haddock
Really? WW defends ash to his last breath and its me you vote for? I wasn't even here at the time!
Im going to vote: witherweaver. He had so many opportunities to vote ash.

Interesting, and a misrepresentation.

Is it?  I have several quotes of you defending ash:

I don't have a read on Ash here.

This is scum ash. He tries to get out of it by being aggressive and trying to make people feel bad for voting for him.

That is also town Ash.  In fact scum ash may be slightly less aggressive.
I think town!ash is a bit more likely to make sense and less likely to misinterpret things, so the confrontation with jimmmm makes him ever so slightly more scummy.

Sounds like weaksauce to me.

The only thing you did which supports the ash wagon was saying that he's obviously scum because he hasn't selfhammered.  Which reads like a joke to me; in any case, you didn't hammer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally desperate to lynch you.  I'm just trying to point out to gkrieg that it doesn't really make sense for him to vote me just for being offwagon, when you were offwagon and also defending ash.
Maybe gkrieg has other reasons to vote me, in which case I'd love to hear them.

Is anyone going to vote for me?

I'm not very experienced at Mafia, but if I didn't like RR's character (which a lot of you don't), I would say something like this:

First, the Mafia told RR to act clueless.
They then tried to pin the blame on RR, knowing no one would vote for him.
Ashersky wasn't supposed to die, gkreig was supposed to go down.
When RR was found out, the remaining Mafia would've been the ones who originally voted for RR on day one or two.
Or something like that. Is anyone planning on voting for me?
Huh?  I understand your question, I guess.  The answer is no, right now I'm not planning to vote for you.  But I could see myself voting for you eventually maybe.  You're hard to read.

But I don't understand all of your post prior to your question.  What are you trying to say?

PPE: 2
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #683 on: October 21, 2015, 05:34:08 pm »

What was I posting prior to my most recent posts? Is that the question you are asking?
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Haddock

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #684 on: October 21, 2015, 05:37:48 pm »

What was I posting prior to my most recent posts? Is that the question you are asking?
No I'm asking you what your most recent post (other than the quoted one) means.  I don't understand any of it, except the last bit of it, (the question) which I do understand.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Witherweaver

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #685 on: October 21, 2015, 05:38:48 pm »

Let's start with vote: Haddock
Really? WW defends ash to his last breath and its me you vote for? I wasn't even here at the time!
Im going to vote: witherweaver. He had so many opportunities to vote ash.

Interesting, and a misrepresentation.

Is it?  I have several quotes of you defending ash:

I don't have a read on Ash here.

This is scum ash. He tries to get out of it by being aggressive and trying to make people feel bad for voting for him.

That is also town Ash.  In fact scum ash may be slightly less aggressive.
I think town!ash is a bit more likely to make sense and less likely to misinterpret things, so the confrontation with jimmmm makes him ever so slightly more scummy.

Sounds like weaksauce to me.


Hence, a misrepresentation.  This is not 'defending to my last breath'.  Also, I stand by what I said.  He did not act greatly differently here than he does as town.
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Awaclus

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #686 on: October 21, 2015, 05:41:54 pm »

Hence, a misrepresentation.  This is not 'defending to my last breath'.  Also, I stand by what I said.  He did not act greatly differently here than he does as town.

He did though.
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yuma

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #687 on: October 21, 2015, 05:45:13 pm »

Also, I stand by what I said.  He did not act greatly differently here than he does as town.

I agree.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #688 on: October 21, 2015, 05:45:47 pm »


The only thing you did which supports the ash wagon was saying that he's obviously scum because he hasn't selfhammered.  Which reads like a joke to me; in any case, you didn't hammer.


It was a joke.  Ash had just hammered himself as town in another game.

Quote
Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally desperate to lynch you.  I'm just trying to point out to gkrieg that it doesn't really make sense for him to vote me just for being offwagon, when you were offwagon and also defending ash.
Maybe gkrieg has other reasons to vote me, in which case I'd love to hear them.

Scum partners generally don't like to come out and make statements about their partners because, well, they get analyzed if one flips.  They're more likely to try to direct the conversation/focus away without being too noticeable. 

I'm voting for you because, once I saw Ash flip scum I immediately threw out all my other thoughts (Silver could (probably) no longer be scum, Faust could no longer be scum, most others on his wagon were probably not scum), and I thought you had to be the partner.  I don't remember why I thought that, but I remember that I did.

I think a big part of it was I was getting scum feelings on you as the day went on, you never really landed anywhere on Ash, and by the end of the day you were voting Gkrieg... actually, I think it was the Gkrieg vote that gave me strongest scum vibes.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #689 on: October 21, 2015, 05:46:11 pm »

....

I just don't know how to read that.

....
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yuma

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #690 on: October 21, 2015, 05:47:24 pm »

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Haddock

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #691 on: October 21, 2015, 05:58:15 pm »

by the end of the day you were voting Gkrieg... actually, I think it was the Gkrieg vote that gave me strongest scum vibes.
... OK this you'll have to explain to me.  How was my voting gkrieg scummy?
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Awaclus

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #692 on: October 21, 2015, 06:00:15 pm »

by the end of the day you were voting Gkrieg... actually, I think it was the Gkrieg vote that gave me strongest scum vibes.
... OK this you'll have to explain to me.  How was my voting gkrieg scummy?

Why does he have to explain that to you? It doesn't really prevent him from voting for you if you don't understand how you're scummy. If you want to do something about it, you should explain to him how it was not scummy.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #693 on: October 21, 2015, 06:00:38 pm »

What was I posting prior to my most recent posts? Is that the question you are asking?
No I'm asking you what your most recent post (other than the quoted one) means.  I don't understand any of it, except the last bit of it, (the question) which I do understand.
It's a really complicated plan (if I was Mafia) that involves me faking my cluelessness, the Mafia trying to kill me, and us lynching gkreig. When I was lynched, my Mafia buddies would've been 'trying' to lynch me all game, so no on would suspect them of being Mafia.

The plan is supposed to sound crazy and confusing, that is why it would never happen/work.

PPE: 2
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Awaclus

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #694 on: October 21, 2015, 06:05:01 pm »

It's a really complicated plan (if I was Mafia) that involves me faking my cluelessness, the Mafia trying to kill me, and us lynching gkreig. When I was lynched, my Mafia buddies would've been 'trying' to lynch me all game, so no on would suspect them of being Mafia.

The plan is supposed to sound crazy and confusing, that is why it would never happen/work.

PPE: 2

Anyone can come up with an unlikely scenario where they're mafia. That's not really a good defense (well, it's not like you really need to defend yourself at this point anyway, but still).
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Witherweaver

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #695 on: October 21, 2015, 06:05:07 pm »

So the vote is here

Couple of pages to catch up.

Before anything else, WW I'd like to know what you meant by
Haddock has acted scummier...
Are you saying that I have acted scummier than some other person?  Or are you saying I've acted scummier in this game than I currently am acting?  I honestly don't know which you mean.

That done with:

This yuma vs. faust thing is really hard for me to read.  If they're both scum then they've played this very well indeed.
Overall I think yuma comes out just on top, ie. I think the whole thing makes faust look ever-so-slightly scummy.  But nothing yuma has said against faust has convinced me that the case against gkrieg is less good than it always was.

And now gkrieg has claimed to have a town read on chairs.  This just doesn't make any sense to me.  Chairs hasn't said anything.  I accept that quietness might be chairs's usual behaviour, which is why I'm no longer voting for him.  But seriously, with the amount that chairs has said can anyone really get a town read on him?  Null at best, for me.

All that said, vote: gkrieg.

and I think that put him at L-2 at the time?  It's not much of a reason in the first place and you stretched it out for a bunch of sentences.  The timing has the feeling of scum getting on a mislynch.
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Haddock

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #696 on: October 21, 2015, 06:09:31 pm »

Why does he have to explain that to you? It doesn't really prevent him from voting for you if you don't understand how you're scummy. If you want to do something about it, you should explain to him how it was not scummy.
That implies that voting for people is inherently scummy until proven otherwise.  Which is just wrong.  It's anti-town to not vote for anyone. 

What was I posting prior to my most recent posts? Is that the question you are asking?
No I'm asking you what your most recent post (other than the quoted one) means.  I don't understand any of it, except the last bit of it, (the question) which I do understand.
It's a really complicated plan (if I was Mafia) that involves me faking my cluelessness, the Mafia trying to kill me, and us lynching gkreig. When I was lynched, my Mafia buddies would've been 'trying' to lynch me all game, so no on would suspect them of being Mafia.
Nope, I still don't entirely get it.  You're suggesting that the only way you're mafia is that mafia coached you to fake cluelessness, then would try to get you killed but intentionally fail and lynch gkrieg instead?  I agree, that's a crazy plan.  But the craziness of that particular plan doesn't exactly make you an IC.

PPE: 2
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #697 on: October 21, 2015, 06:09:46 pm »

It's a really complicated plan (if I was Mafia) that involves me faking my cluelessness, the Mafia trying to kill me, and us lynching gkreig. When I was lynched, my Mafia buddies would've been 'trying' to lynch me all game, so no on would suspect them of being Mafia.

The plan is supposed to sound crazy and confusing, that is why it would never happen/work.

PPE: 2

Anyone can come up with an unlikely scenario where they're mafia. That's not really a good defense (well, it's not like you really need to defend yourself at this point anyway, but still).
I think at this point, the more I open my mouth (not literally) the more likely it is that someone will vote for me.

That being said, I have Scout at #101 on Qvist's rankings.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #698 on: October 21, 2015, 06:11:01 pm »

Why does he have to explain that to you? It doesn't really prevent him from voting for you if you don't understand how you're scummy. If you want to do something about it, you should explain to him how it was not scummy.
That implies that voting for people is inherently scummy until proven otherwise.  Which is just wrong.  It's anti-town to not vote for anyone. 

What was I posting prior to my most recent posts? Is that the question you are asking?
No I'm asking you what your most recent post (other than the quoted one) means.  I don't understand any of it, except the last bit of it, (the question) which I do understand.
It's a really complicated plan (if I was Mafia) that involves me faking my cluelessness, the Mafia trying to kill me, and us lynching gkreig. When I was lynched, my Mafia buddies would've been 'trying' to lynch me all game, so no on would suspect them of being Mafia.
Nope, I still don't entirely get it.  You're suggesting that the only way you're mafia is that mafia coached you to fake cluelessness, then would try to get you killed but intentionally fail and lynch gkrieg instead?  I agree, that's a crazy plan.  But the craziness of that particular plan doesn't exactly make you an IC.

PPE: 2
Can you think of a more likely scernario that would involve me being Mafia? I mean, a Mafia tried to lynch me, and I'm either a great actor or completely clueless.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #699 on: October 21, 2015, 06:11:08 pm »

As much as Ichi ever said about Ash, I think:

Ashersky: I don't recall much about his posts this game. I'm not sure why he's suspected. I should probably reread a bit since I mostly skimmed

Mildly suspicious.  He was on Gkrieg and didn't move it.
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