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### AuthorTopic: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Game Over!)  (Read 39906 times)

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#### Twistedarcher

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##### M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Game Over!)
« on: September 28, 2015, 05:57:48 pm »

Welcome to M70: Switch Mafia 2

This game is for 13 players, and is classified as normal. The setup used is Switch Mafia. More setup details in the second post.

Players:
1. Witherweaver - Vanilla Townie - Killed N2
2. Faust - Town-aligned Doctor - Killed N1
4. Ashersky - Mafia-aligned Doctor switch - Lynched D1
5. gkrieg13 - Town-aligned Cop - Killed N3
6. Haddock - Mafia-aligned Vigilante switch - Killed N4
7. Awaclus
8. Silverspawn - Vanilla Townie - Killed N1
9. Hydrad - Vanilla Townie - Lynched D3
10. Ichimaru Gin
11. Jimmmmm - Vigilante - Killed N2
12. Yuma - Mafia-aligned cop switch - Lynched D2
13. Chairs - Vanilla Townie - Lynched D4

Moderators: Twistedarcher, Pacovf

Tagged: scott_pilgrim

Game Events:
D1 Start
D1 End
D2 Start
D2 End
D3 Start
D3 End
D4 Start
D4 End
D5 Start

The Rules:
This game will follow the standard Rules of Mafia.
Mod color is blue, and is reserved for moderator use only.

1. Days will last seven days.
2. Nights will last two days. Night actions are due after 48 hours.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 09:54:54 pm by Twistedarcher »
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2015, 05:57:55 pm »

This game will use the mafiascum Switch setup, with a few adjustments. This game will start in D1, rather than starting in N0. To adjust for this, there is one fewer Vanilla town.

The setup will include the following players:
1 Mafia Cop Switch
1 Mafia Doctor Switch
1 Mafia Vigilante Switch

1 Serial Killer
1 Town-aligned Cop
1 Town-aligned Doctor
1 Town-aligned Vigilante
6 Vanilla Townies

Switch Mechanic:
There are 3 switches in this game: A cop switch, a doctor switch, and a vigilante switch. During each night, the mafia cop switch may press the cop switch, the mafia doctor switch may press the doctor switch, and the mafia vigilante switch may press the vigilante switch. The serial killer may press any of 0-3 switches.

If a switch is pressed once (by either a mafia member or the serial killer), the corresponding town member is roleblocked. If a switch is pressed twice (by both mafia and serial killer), then the corresponding town member is not roleblocked.

1) Mafia members may either perform their factional kill or press their switch, but not both.
2) The Serial Killer may perform a nightkill and press any number of switches in the same night.
3) Pregame, the Serial Killer must choose a power. He may either be immune to the Mafia Nightkill, or be immune to the town Vig/Cop. If the SK chooses cop immunity, he will return "Town" to the cop.
4) The cop receives the results "Town", "Anti-Town", "No Result".

Stalemates/Ties:
In the case of a no lynch/no kill stalemate, then Mafia/the SK must perform a night kill to break the stalemate. In the case of three straight no lynch/no kills, the town will win the game.

If there are two players remaining, one mafia and one SK, and the SK is not immune to mafia kills, the game will end in a joint win for mafia and the SK.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 09:44:25 pm by Twistedarcher »
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 06:02:14 pm »

\in
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2015, 06:14:59 pm »

/in
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

• Torturer
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2015, 06:15:24 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2015, 06:16:58 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
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#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2015, 06:18:54 pm »

/in.  Need to redeem myself.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

• Torturer
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• Forum Mafia Record: 18-33-2
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2015, 06:33:11 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

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#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2015, 06:34:40 pm »

/in
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2015, 06:35:30 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

The link in the setup description leads to a page with role descriptions for all roles in the game.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2015, 06:36:48 pm »

The setup states there would be one VT less than in the original setup, but actually the original setup has 2 VTs more than this version.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

• Torturer
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• Forum Mafia Record: 18-33-2
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2015, 06:37:05 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

The link in the setup description leads to a page with role descriptions for all roles in the game.
That link is not opening for me, but I guess I can keep refreshing it.
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2015, 06:38:37 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Roles_Main_Page is a good start.

This game actually uses pretty simple roles. The switch mechanic is unique and potentially complex, but in terms of roles, the game is simple.

Cop: Each night, PMs the moderator a player name. If the player is town, they receive "Town". If the player is SK or mafia, they receive "Not town" (unless the SK chose cop immunity pre-game). If the cop were roleblocked by the switches, they receive "No result".

Doctor: Each night, PMs the moderator a player name. If that player is targeted by a night kill (Mafia, SK, or Vigilante), they do not die.

Vigilante: Each night, PMs the moderator a player name. That player is killed.

Note that all of these roles aren't compulsory, so the player can choose to take no action.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2015, 06:39:25 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

The link in the setup description leads to a page with role descriptions for all roles in the game.
That link is not opening for me, but I guess I can keep refreshing it.

Oops, fixed
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#### Twistedarcher

• Witch
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2015, 06:40:17 pm »

The setup states there would be one VT less than in the original setup, but actually the original setup has 2 VTs more than this version.

Oh, weird. I was going off of Switch mafia 1, which had 13 players, but the mafiascum article does have 14 players. Let me think about what's most balanced.
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• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2015, 06:40:55 pm »

If people dont mind another newbie joining, I can /in.
Been reading many of the recent games so hopefully wont be godawful.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

• Torturer
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• Forum Mafia Record: 18-33-2
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2015, 06:43:27 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

The link in the setup description leads to a page with role descriptions for all roles in the game.
That link is not opening for me, but I guess I can keep refreshing it.

Oops, fixed
Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun. What is a factorial kill? Can the Cop Switch kill someone if they are not switching the cop off?
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

#### scott_pilgrim

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2015, 06:45:53 pm »

/tag
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2015, 06:51:35 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

The link in the setup description leads to a page with role descriptions for all roles in the game.
That link is not opening for me, but I guess I can keep refreshing it.

Oops, fixed
Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun. What is a factorial kill? Can the Cop Switch kill someone if they are not switching the cop off?

Each night, the mafia has a factional kill. Any of the mafia members can choose a player to die. Any of the members can perform this kill, but that player cannot operate their switch if they perform the kill.

The Serial Killer also has a "factional" kill, which operates similarly to the mafia kill. He can use his kill and also operate switches, however.
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• Torturer
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• Forum Mafia Record: 18-33-2
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2015, 06:53:30 pm »

/in, but I have never played before.

Welcome! Definitely feel free to ask if you have any questions during the game.
I've played Mafia before, but it was with a god awful group. I have also played Wereweolves of Miller's Hallow, so I might be okay. Could you direct me to a place that would show me what the roles do though?
Thanks.

The link in the setup description leads to a page with role descriptions for all roles in the game.
That link is not opening for me, but I guess I can keep refreshing it.

Oops, fixed
Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun. What is a factorial kill? Can the Cop Switch kill someone if they are not switching the cop off?

Each night, the mafia has a factional kill. Any of the mafia members can choose a player to die. Any of the members can perform this kill, but that player cannot operate their switch if they perform the kill.

The Serial Killer also has a "factional" kill, which operates similarly to the mafia kill. He can use his kill and also operate switches, however.
Oh, boy. For the sake of either side winning, I hope I end up as a Vanilla Townie.
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2015, 06:56:17 pm »

Factorial kills are rough

Alternatively, kill!  Depending in which direction you want to take this.  It's like a choose your own adventure.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2015, 07:06:10 pm »

I guess I'll /in
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2015, 07:36:29 pm »

this is fill/ing rather fast
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2015, 07:49:00 pm »

I think 13 is more balanced than 12, especially given there's a potential 3 NKs a night. Going to switch this from 12 to 13 players unless anyone vehemently protests, but I think it's the most balanced.
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2015, 08:12:07 pm »

I really want to play but at the same time need to stay committed to the one game policy I currently have in place. So if I am dead in the other game i am in I would absolutely love to play. if not then feel free to give my spot up.

Didn't realize the game would be opening/starting so soon!
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2015, 08:45:38 pm »

It may be awhile, we still have one game in queue in front of us
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• Young Witch
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2015, 02:36:09 am »

/in
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For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2015, 02:24:32 pm »

Well this looks intriguing
I'll /in.

#### pacovf

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2015, 02:37:51 pm »

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pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

#### UmbrageOfSnow

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2015, 12:25:22 am »

Assuming this doesn't start until GOP mafia is a (game) day or so in, then
/in.
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2015, 04:18:46 pm »

TA thinks this will start during Day2 of faust's game, so I'll /in I think the other game I am in will either be at a point where I am dead or has less of a posting volume.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2015, 03:48:30 pm »

If someone wants to play right now, you should signup for GOP mafia! this will start afterwards.
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#### chairs

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2015, 03:09:16 pm »

/in

#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups open!)
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2015, 04:05:11 pm »

OK, that's 13. Still need to wait for GOP mafia.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups full! Opening when GOP Mafia goes into N1)
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2015, 11:09:04 pm »

We'll open once GOP mafia goes into N1.
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#### skip wooznum

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups full! Opening when GOP Mafia goes into N1)
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2015, 12:17:10 am »

/tag
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups full! Opening when GOP Mafia goes into N1)
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2015, 03:10:47 pm »

Where is my PM?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups full! Opening when GOP Mafia goes into N1)
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2015, 03:11:17 pm »

I guess technically GOP isn't in N1. Okay, I'll wait another 10 hours.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups full! Opening when GOP Mafia goes into N1)
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2015, 05:10:05 pm »

Sending out PMs tonight.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Signups full! Opening when GOP Mafia goes into N1)
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2015, 05:14:39 pm »

Going to need a replacement for UoS before this starts. Let me know if you're interested in taking that spot.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2015, 05:17:40 pm »

I was going to say I could replace him, then I realized that I was already in.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2015, 03:33:54 pm »

Is it just the UoS replacement holding us up?  Sad face.  C'mon, people, roll up!
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2015, 03:40:19 pm »

Yup, need one more before PMs are out
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2015, 04:08:19 pm »

I will Hydra!
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2015, 04:08:35 pm »

Or, reverse Hydra.
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2015, 04:14:54 pm »

I will Hydra!

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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2015, 04:15:29 pm »

You could say, someone has already Hydra'd.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2015, 06:19:08 pm »

/in
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Come and play Forum Mafia at LynchPool!

#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2015, 06:22:11 pm »

FYI, I intend to make a bigger effort to keep up than I often do; don't take it as a scum tell!
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#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2015, 06:25:58 pm »

FYI, I intend to make a bigger effort to keep up than I often do; don't take it as a scum tell!
Asking people to not find you scummy = classic scum tell.
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Need 1 more, Starting ASAP)
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2015, 06:26:21 pm »

FYI, I intend to make a bigger effort to keep up than I often do; don't take it as a scum tell!
Asking people to not find you scummy = classic scum tell.

Dang, you got me.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (PMs going out, starting 10/14)
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2015, 06:27:17 pm »

Yay Jimmmmm!

Thread Locked. PMs going out within the next hour.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (PMs going out, starting 10/14)
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2015, 06:43:16 pm »

PMs have been sent. Please confirm. We'll start 10/14 at 7 PM forum time if all confirmations are in.
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• Torturer
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (N0, Starting 10/14)
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2015, 06:53:25 pm »

'Thread has been locked.' I guess that means this won't even go through?

If it does, what is forum time?
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (N0, Starting 10/14)
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2015, 06:57:55 pm »

'Thread has been locked.' I guess that means this won't even go through?

If it does, what is forum time?

That means no posting whatsoever. You can post, but you are never allowed to. Please PM the moderators when thread is locked. Consider this a warning for everyone.

Forum time is Eastern US time.
Logged

#### Twistedarcher

• Witch
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 - D1 Begins!
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2015, 07:09:23 pm »

D1 Begins!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (13): Witherweaver, Faust, Roadrunner7671, Ashersky, gkrieg13, Haddock, Awaclus, Silverspawn, Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, Jimmmmm, Yuma, Chairs

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

D1 starts now and ends October 22 at 7 pm forum time. (extended by 1 day to be a day after GOP's deadline)

« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 07:11:08 pm by Twistedarcher »
Logged

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (N0, Starting 10/14)
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2015, 07:10:01 pm »

Huzzah!

....aaaannnnndddd I'm going to bed.  See you all in 8 hours or so.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2015, 07:19:29 pm »

I'm in a game again! Weee!

Unfortunately, like Haddock, I will have to go to bed.

Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2015, 07:31:43 pm »

vote: Faust for sleeping.  Lurking is scummy!
Logged

• Torturer
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2015, 08:18:42 pm »

I'm in a game again! Weee!

Unfortunately, like Haddock, I will have to go to bed.

What? What are you basing that upon?

Vote: faust
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2015, 08:28:46 pm »

I'm in a game again! Weee!

Unfortunately, like Haddock, I will have to go to bed.

What? What are you basing that upon?

Vote: faust

It's RVS (random voting stage).
Logged

• Young Witch
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2015, 08:39:50 pm »

Vote: IG

woo game time.
Logged
For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2015, 08:42:05 pm »

Woo.

Can I propose we don't talk about the switches, so scum have less chance of coordinating?
Logged
Come and play Forum Mafia at LynchPool!

#### Ichimaru Gin

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• Interesting™
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2015, 10:07:14 pm »

Oh yeah!

So what'd I miss while I was away? I'm not familiar with roadrunner or haddock I don't think...Good to see some fresh faces though!

Also my life = Chemistry right now. I have a fair amount of time on the weekends but normally won't be able to post almost anything on Wednesdays.

#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2015, 10:13:09 pm »

Woo.

Can I propose we don't talk about the switches, so scum have less chance of coordinating?
I'm fine with that, but I'm not the strongest in the theories.

And how about a vote: faust for impersonating silverspawn.
I'm in a game again! Weee!

did anyone miss me?

#### chairs

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• Why don't you have a seat over there...
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2015, 10:32:37 pm »

vote: IG for not going to bed like the rest of us.

#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2015, 10:33:25 pm »

But it's only 7:30. Please can I stay up?

#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2015, 11:36:06 pm »

But it's only 7:30. Please can I stay up?
Never. I'm a senior in biochemistry right now so I understand your pain.
Logged

#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2015, 11:50:12 pm »

elo. as I noted in VLA I am semi-VLA

two new players: haddock and roadrunner, could you both state your time zone if you are comfortable with that. It just helps to know when to approximately expect you to be online (if you are Europe or Australia or something your posting patterns will be pretty different from US... or if you are nocturnal).
Logged

#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2015, 01:25:17 am »

Woot.

Obligatory I am a mason post.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2015, 03:12:07 am »

Vote: silverspawn, he's obviously scum.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2015, 04:00:22 am »

Vote: silverspawn, he's obviously scum.

I like it!

vote: silverspawn
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2015, 04:01:42 am »

yuma and I might be the only players left alive on f.ds that played this the first time it was run here (or was yuma the mod?).  I was scum there and from what I recall, the switches made zero difference.  We lost because of claims, but had a nice run with first-timer Qvist taking the first-ever MVP for a losing side.

All this to say: the switches mean poop.  PRs play like PRs play.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2015, 04:03:19 am »

It's also trivial to figure out what's optimal as far as switches go from a theory standpoint, so unless scum don't think things through, we already know what they'll do.

But, I mean, regardless of the existence of a doctor switch, for example, why wouldn't the doctor target someone anyway?  That's what I mean by the switches are poop.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### silverspawn

• Governor
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2015, 04:04:12 am »

hi everyone

did anyone miss me?

I did! vote: IG
Logged

#### Jimmmmm

• Torturer
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• Posts: 1759
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2015, 04:06:54 am »

It's also trivial to figure out what's optimal as far as switches go from a theory standpoint, so unless scum don't think things through, we already know what they'll do.

But, I mean, regardless of the existence of a doctor switch, for example, why wouldn't the doctor target someone anyway?  That's what I mean by the switches are poop.

Vote: ashersky

I already told everyone not to talk about the switches. Explaining why they're trivial is talking about them.
Logged
Come and play Forum Mafia at LynchPool!

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2015, 05:02:03 am »

two new players: haddock and roadrunner, could you both state your time zone if you are comfortable with that. It just helps to know when to approximately expect you to be online (if you are Europe or Australia or something your posting patterns will be pretty different from US... or if you are nocturnal).
Sure.  I'm GMT, but something of a night owl, meaning that most of my posts will probably be mid/late-afternoon forum-time.

vote: Faust for sleeping.  Lurking is scummy!
:O Inconsistent, I did the same and you didn't vote for me! Scummmmmm!

On a note no more serious than that, I have a mild hangover this morning, so vote: IG for having a name with alcohol in it.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2015, 05:12:57 am »

I'm in a game again! Weee!

Unfortunately, like Haddock, I will have to go to bed.

What? What are you basing that upon?

Vote: faust

Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

• Young Witch
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• Posts: 142
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2015, 05:14:13 am »

Vote: faust

I feel like your enjoying yourself to much. I don't like that. I want you to suffer more.
Logged
For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2015, 05:15:13 am »

It's also trivial to figure out what's optimal as far as switches go from a theory standpoint, so unless scum don't think things through, we already know what they'll do.

But, I mean, regardless of the existence of a doctor switch, for example, why wouldn't the doctor target someone anyway?  That's what I mean by the switches are poop.

Vote: ashersky

I already told everyone not to talk about the switches. Explaining why they're trivial is talking about them.

Agreed.

Vote: ashersky
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #80 on: October 15, 2015, 05:18:38 am »

Vote: faust

I feel like your enjoying yourself to much. I don't like that. I want you to suffer more.

I can suffer if you like. I'm quite good at suffering.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #81 on: October 15, 2015, 05:28:36 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2015, 05:32:19 am »

It's also trivial to figure out what's optimal as far as switches go from a theory standpoint, so unless scum don't think things through, we already know what they'll do.

But, I mean, regardless of the existence of a doctor switch, for example, why wouldn't the doctor target someone anyway?  That's what I mean by the switches are poop.

Vote: ashersky

I already told everyone not to talk about the switches. Explaining why they're trivial is talking about them.

You having "told everyone not to talk" about anything is a great reason to talk about it, given you are likely to be scum.

You even made a "just in case I'm scum I'm announcing a meta change pre-game" post.

Also, talking about the setup helps us get out of RVS, which is stupid.  I'm also the only player here that's ever played the setup, and as scum no less, so maybe what I have to say is relevant.  And most relevant is: the switches are poop.

TLDR: Basically, I don't care what you said.  I don't take orders from you.  Switches = poop.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #83 on: October 15, 2015, 05:33:37 am »

It's also trivial to figure out what's optimal as far as switches go from a theory standpoint, so unless scum don't think things through, we already know what they'll do.

But, I mean, regardless of the existence of a doctor switch, for example, why wouldn't the doctor target someone anyway?  That's what I mean by the switches are poop.

Vote: ashersky

I already told everyone not to talk about the switches. Explaining why they're trivial is talking about them.

Agreed.

Vote: ashersky

No, you don't really agree.  You are being facetious.

What did scum learn from me pointing out that the switches are poop?  That I think they're power is poopy?  OH NOES!
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Awaclus

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• (´｡• ω •｡)
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2015, 05:49:03 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Calling it now, the scum team is IG, faust, ashersky. And silverspawn.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #85 on: October 15, 2015, 06:19:58 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Calling it now, the scum team is IG, faust, ashersky. And silverspawn.

1.  I'm never scum.
2.  This post is way, way, way off tone for you, Awaclus.
3.  IG/faust/SS is possible.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Awaclus

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• (´｡• ω •｡)
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2015, 06:24:34 am »

2.  This post is way, way, way off tone for you, Awaclus.

No it's not. Vote: ashersky
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### silverspawn

• Governor
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2015, 07:15:15 am »

interesting.

vote: IG
Logged

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2015, 07:23:46 am »

Calling it now, the scum team is IG, faust, ashersky. And silverspawn.
I honestly don't know if you're joking.  I assume you are, but nonetheless, all you have done here is name the 4 people who had been voted for at all at that point.  And they have all been voted for on the back of just Random/jokey reasons.  Seems a bit suspicious, you're just pushing the "wagons" without any reasoning.  Same is true of Ashersky of course, naming IG/Faust/SS as possible.  But you started it.  vote:Awaclus

Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### silverspawn

• Governor
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• Posts: 4731
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2015, 07:27:52 am »

I actually do find ashersky's post scummy though, for reasons which I can't explain but should be apparent.

vote: ashersky

@Haddock: you should leave a whitespace in between the colon and the first letter. will probably count anyway, but it might not.
Logged

#### silverspawn

• Governor
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2015, 07:28:06 am »

and I should bold them

vote: ashersky
Logged

• Minion
• Offline
• Posts: 725
• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2015, 07:33:26 am »

I actually do find ashersky's post scummy though, for reasons which I can't explain but should be apparent.

vote: ashersky

@Haddock: you should leave a whitespace in between the colon and the first letter. will probably count anyway, but it might not.
Thanks. vote: Awaclus

Which specific ash post do you find scummy? There have been many.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

• Minion
• Offline
• Posts: 725
• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2015, 07:35:55 am »

Then again you don't want to explain, so if pointing out specific posts is too much like explaining, dont worry, ill figure out what you mean hopefully.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2015, 07:43:20 am »
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2015, 07:47:25 am »

Calling it now, the scum team is IG, faust, ashersky. And silverspawn.
I honestly don't know if you're joking.  I assume you are, but nonetheless, all you have done here is name the 4 people who had been voted for at all at that point.  And they have all been voted for on the back of just Random/jokey reasons.  Seems a bit suspicious, you're just pushing the "wagons" without any reasoning.  Same is true of Ashersky of course, naming IG/Faust/SS as possible.  But you started it.  vote:Awaclus

I did not name the 4 people who had been voted for, I named the person I was quoting and the two people he mentioned in the post I was quoting. And silverspawn, because he was scum in Futuramafia.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2015, 07:50:08 am »

yuma and I might be the only players left alive on f.ds that played this the first time it was run here (or was yuma the mod?).  I was scum there and from what I recall, the switches made zero difference.  We lost because of claims, but had a nice run with first-timer Qvist taking the first-ever MVP for a losing side.

All this to say: the switches mean poop.  PRs play like PRs play.

No the switches were meaningless because we lynched galz, the sk, day1 on a derphammer by me and I barely survived getting lynched on day2 for it... So the mafia just permanently left the switches in their favor and all prs were useless, or something like that...
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2015, 07:50:54 am »

Seems a bit suspicious, you're just pushing the "wagons" without any reasoning.

Also, I used reasoning.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2015, 08:11:46 am »

yuma and I might be the only players left alive on f.ds that played this the first time it was run here (or was yuma the mod?).  I was scum there and from what I recall, the switches made zero difference.  We lost because of claims, but had a nice run with first-timer Qvist taking the first-ever MVP for a losing side.

All this to say: the switches mean poop.  PRs play like PRs play.

No the switches were meaningless because we lynched galz, the sk, day1 on a derphammer by me and I barely survived getting lynched on day2 for it... So the mafia just permanently left the switches in their favor and all prs were useless, or something like that...

Hey look, someone else talking about the switches, and being generally useful.

Boo Jimmmmm.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2015, 08:12:24 am »

this one

That's a phenomenal post, and possibly the best one in the game up to this point.

You are just salty because you don't like me, my plans, and the fact that I win regardless of your opinion.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #99 on: October 15, 2015, 08:13:45 am »

And they have all been voted for on the back of just Random/jokey reasons.

To be fair, Jimmmmm is voting me because I didn't listen to his totalitarian instructions.  That's not "random/jokey" at all.

Faust is just sheeping Jimmmmm, which isn't "random/jokey" in that Faust could easily be partners with Jimmmmm.

SS's reasons I just posted, and are not random or jokey.

Who else voted me?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #100 on: October 15, 2015, 08:14:32 am »

And they have all been voted for on the back of just Random/jokey reasons.

To be fair, Jimmmmm is voting me because I didn't listen to his totalitarian instructions.  That's not "random/jokey" at all.

Faust is just sheeping Jimmmmm, which isn't "random/jokey" in that Faust could easily be partners with Jimmmmm.

SS's reasons I just posted, and are not random or jokey.

Who else voted me?

I voted you.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2015, 08:17:20 am »

2.  This post is way, way, way off tone for you, Awaclus.

No it's not. Vote: ashersky

Ah, yes.  We just disagree, I guess.

I think I'd have the backing of every player on f.ds when I say that you are generally abrasive, combative, and functionally ignore all modicum of respect for your fellow posters when you post (but in a good way).

The post I said was out of character for you was rational, thoughtful, and respectful.  Ergo, it was striking to me because it didn't sound like you at all.  I'd say the possibility that someone hacked your account and was posting in your place could not be ignored.

You're still not you, btw.  Not sure what happened.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #102 on: October 15, 2015, 08:18:16 am »

Also, I used reasoning.
Ok, so it looked to me like:
-Ash makes jokey comment.
-You make a joke back, which just happens to mention the current votes as potential scum.

Which looked dodgy. But you're now saying that step two was a genuine piece of reasoning by you.  In which case, fair enough, I guess. Even if im not really sure I agree with the reasoning.  In any case your response is good enough for me for now. unvote.

PPE. I dont get it, Ash and Jimm, you both seem to be saying the same thing Re the switches, namely "we cant do anything about them so why worry?" which is also my viewpoint.
PPE again. Ok but only awa could be claimed to have maybe legitimate reasons (see above). I mean you could be scum, but lets face it right now verything is basically RVS still.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #103 on: October 15, 2015, 08:18:58 am »

Typing on a tablet is SLOOOOWWWWW.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #104 on: October 15, 2015, 08:21:37 am »

Also, I used reasoning.
Ok, so it looked to me like:
-Ash makes jokey comment.
-You make a joke back, which just happens to mention the current votes as potential scum.

Which looked dodgy. But you're now saying that step two was a genuine piece of reasoning by you.  In which case, fair enough, I guess. Even if im not really sure I agree with the reasoning.  In any case your response is good enough for me for now. unvote.

PPE. I dont get it, Ash and Jimm, you both seem to be saying the same thing Re the switches, namely "we cant do anything about them so why worry?" which is also my viewpoint.
PPE again. Ok but only awa could be claimed to have maybe legitimate reasons (see above). I mean you could be scum, but lets face it right now verything is basically RVS still.

Well, I can see how it would look like a joke, since I also made the "silverspawn is always scum because of Futuramafia" joke in the same post, but I did think that ash's comment about IG and faust was worth noting and then the way he responded to that made me actually want to vote for him.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #105 on: October 15, 2015, 08:24:52 am »

2.  This post is way, way, way off tone for you, Awaclus.

No it's not. Vote: ashersky

Ah, yes.  We just disagree, I guess.

I think I'd have the backing of every player on f.ds when I say that you are generally abrasive, combative, and functionally ignore all modicum of respect for your fellow posters when you post (but in a good way).

The post I said was out of character for you was rational, thoughtful, and respectful.  Ergo, it was striking to me because it didn't sound like you at all.  I'd say the possibility that someone hacked your account and was posting in your place could not be ignored.

You're still not you, btw.  Not sure what happened.

It was exactly like the posts I usually make. Perhaps it felt more rational to you because this time you know it's true.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2015, 09:03:09 am »

2.  This post is way, way, way off tone for you, Awaclus.

No it's not. Vote: ashersky

Ah, yes.  We just disagree, I guess.

I think I'd have the backing of every player on f.ds when I say that you are generally abrasive, combative, and functionally ignore all modicum of respect for your fellow posters when you post (but in a good way).

The post I said was out of character for you was rational, thoughtful, and respectful.  Ergo, it was striking to me because it didn't sound like you at all.  I'd say the possibility that someone hacked your account and was posting in your place could not be ignored.

You're still not you, btw.  Not sure what happened.

It was exactly like the posts I usually make. Perhaps it felt more rational to you because this time you know it's true.

Tone was rational, not the thought.

You know, like when a crazy person says something completely insane but completely believes it?  Like that.

Basically, I just imagine you are Heath Ledger's Joker all the time.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Witherweaver

• Offline
• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #107 on: October 15, 2015, 09:03:38 am »

It's also trivial to figure out what's optimal as far as switches go from a theory standpoint, so unless scum don't think things through, we already know what they'll do.

But, I mean, regardless of the existence of a doctor switch, for example, why wouldn't the doctor target someone anyway?  That's what I mean by the switches are poop.

Vote: ashersky

I already told everyone not to talk about the switches. Explaining why they're trivial is talking about them.

The first rule of switch club is you don't talk about switch club.
Logged

#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #108 on: October 15, 2015, 09:04:30 am »

WW!  You are in this game?

Are you scum?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #109 on: October 15, 2015, 09:06:19 am »

Also, side point, how did Haddock miss Fish Mafia
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Witherweaver

• Offline
• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #110 on: October 15, 2015, 09:07:12 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Vote: Ashersky for some reason I can't explain.
Logged

#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #111 on: October 15, 2015, 09:08:11 am »

Calling it now, the scum team is IG, faust, ashersky. And silverspawn.
I honestly don't know if you're joking.  I assume you are, but nonetheless, all you have done here is name the 4 people who had been voted for at all at that point.  And they have all been voted for on the back of just Random/jokey reasons.  Seems a bit suspicious, you're just pushing the "wagons" without any reasoning.  Same is true of Ashersky of course, naming IG/Faust/SS as possible.  But you started it.  vote:Awaclus

This strikes me as not scummy.
Logged

#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #112 on: October 15, 2015, 09:08:33 am »

I actually do find ashersky's post scummy though, for reasons which I can't explain but should be apparent.

Brilliant!
Logged

#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #113 on: October 15, 2015, 09:09:46 am »

this one

That's a phenomenal post, and possibly the best one in the game up to this point.

You are just salty because you don't like me, my plans, and the fact that I win regardless of your opinion.

Plans are necessarily scummy because we don't know the planner's alignment, remember?
Logged

#### Witherweaver

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• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #114 on: October 15, 2015, 09:10:32 am »

2.  This post is way, way, way off tone for you, Awaclus.

No it's not. Vote: ashersky

Ah, yes.  We just disagree, I guess.

I think I'd have the backing of every player on f.ds when I say that you are generally abrasive, combative, and functionally ignore all modicum of respect for your fellow posters when you post (but in a good way).

The post I said was out of character for you was rational, thoughtful, and respectful.  Ergo, it was striking to me because it didn't sound like you at all.  I'd say the possibility that someone hacked your account and was posting in your place could not be ignored.

You're still not you, btw.  Not sure what happened.

You could have said the opposite and gotten the same response.
Logged

#### Witherweaver

• Offline
• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #115 on: October 15, 2015, 09:11:16 am »

Also, I used reasoning.
Ok, so it looked to me like:
-Ash makes jokey comment.
-You make a joke back, which just happens to mention the current votes as potential scum.

Which looked dodgy. But you're now saying that step two was a genuine piece of reasoning by you.  In which case, fair enough, I guess. Even if im not really sure I agree with the reasoning.  In any case your response is good enough for me for now. unvote.

PPE. I dont get it, Ash and Jimm, you both seem to be saying the same thing Re the switches, namely "we cant do anything about them so why worry?" which is also my viewpoint.
PPE again. Ok but only awa could be claimed to have maybe legitimate reasons (see above). I mean you could be scum, but lets face it right now verything is basically RVS still.

Everything is not RVS.  \Teprocoff
Logged

#### Witherweaver

• Offline
• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2015, 09:11:41 am »

WW!  You are in this game?

Are you scum?

I am not.
Logged

#### Witherweaver

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• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2015, 09:12:12 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Vote: Ashersky for some reason I can't explain.

What's funny is I posted this before I read Silverspawn's.

Logged

#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2015, 09:14:47 am »

Why does talking about switches matter at all?  It sounds like we have nothing to do with it.
Logged

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2015, 09:19:28 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Vote: Ashersky for some reason I can't explain.

What's funny is I posted this before I read Silverspawn's.

When I first read it, I thought you were making fun of silver.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #120 on: October 15, 2015, 09:19:53 am »

this one

That's a phenomenal post, and possibly the best one in the game up to this point.

You are just salty because you don't like me, my plans, and the fact that I win regardless of your opinion.

Plans are necessarily scummy because we don't know the planner's alignment, remember?

Correct.  And I have no plan, therefore I'm an IC.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #121 on: October 15, 2015, 09:20:10 am »

Why does talking about switches matter at all?  It sounds like we have nothing to do with it.

I'm glad you agree with me.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Witherweaver

• Offline
• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #122 on: October 15, 2015, 09:20:15 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Vote: Ashersky for some reason I can't explain.

What's funny is I posted this before I read Silverspawn's.

When I first read it, I thought you were making fun of silver.

I'm just so clever I'm precognitive.
Logged

#### Witherweaver

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• Posts: 6476
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #123 on: October 15, 2015, 09:20:38 am »

this one

That's a phenomenal post, and possibly the best one in the game up to this point.

You are just salty because you don't like me, my plans, and the fact that I win regardless of your opinion.

Plans are necessarily scummy because we don't know the planner's alignment, remember?

Correct.  And I have no plan, therefore I'm an IC.

Cool, I never have a plan, so I'm always an IC.
Logged

#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #124 on: October 15, 2015, 09:20:54 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Vote: Ashersky for some reason I can't explain.

Probably jealousy.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #125 on: October 15, 2015, 09:21:12 am »

this one

That's a phenomenal post, and possibly the best one in the game up to this point.

You are just salty because you don't like me, my plans, and the fact that I win regardless of your opinion.

Plans are necessarily scummy because we don't know the planner's alignment, remember?

Correct.  And I have no plan, therefore I'm an IC.

Cool, I never have a plan, so I'm always an IC.

Pretty sure that makes us Masons.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #126 on: October 15, 2015, 09:21:18 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Vote: Ashersky for some reason I can't explain.

Probably jealousy.

Do you think it'd be alright if I just crashed here tonight?
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #127 on: October 15, 2015, 09:21:35 am »

this one

That's a phenomenal post, and possibly the best one in the game up to this point.

You are just salty because you don't like me, my plans, and the fact that I win regardless of your opinion.

Plans are necessarily scummy because we don't know the planner's alignment, remember?

Correct.  And I have no plan, therefore I'm an IC.

Cool, I never have a plan, so I'm always an IC.

Pretty sure that makes us Masons.

Pretty sure our PM made us Masons.
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #128 on: October 15, 2015, 09:22:36 am »

It's also trivial to figure out what's optimal as far as switches go from a theory standpoint, so unless scum don't think things through, we already know what they'll do.

But, I mean, regardless of the existence of a doctor switch, for example, why wouldn't the doctor target someone anyway?  That's what I mean by the switches are poop.

Vote: ashersky

I already told everyone not to talk about the switches. Explaining why they're trivial is talking about them.

You having "told everyone not to talk" about anything is a great reason to talk about it, given you are likely to be scum.

No, it's not.

Quote
You even made a "just in case I'm scum I'm announcing a meta change pre-game" post.

Quote
Also, talking about the setup helps us get out of RVS, which is stupid.  I'm also the only player here that's ever played the setup, and as scum no less, so maybe what I have to say is relevant.  And most relevant is: the switches are poop.

I agree that talking about the setup helps get us out of RVS, so it's unfortunate that talking about the setup is pro-scum.

Quote
TLDR: Basically, I don't care what you said.  I don't take orders from you.  Switches = poop.

I wasn't saying you should have done what I said. I'm saying we were basically saying the same thing (don't worry about switches), but at the same time you were worrying about switches.

PPE 37 (I went away and came back to this post.)
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #129 on: October 15, 2015, 09:25:11 am »

yuma and I might be the only players left alive on f.ds that played this the first time it was run here (or was yuma the mod?).  I was scum there and from what I recall, the switches made zero difference.  We lost because of claims, but had a nice run with first-timer Qvist taking the first-ever MVP for a losing side.

All this to say: the switches mean poop.  PRs play like PRs play.

No the switches were meaningless because we lynched galz, the sk, day1 on a derphammer by me and I barely survived getting lynched on day2 for it... So the mafia just permanently left the switches in their favor and all prs were useless, or something like that...

Hey look, someone else talking about the switches, and being generally useful.

Boo Jimmmmm.

How does it help us lynch scum?
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #130 on: October 15, 2015, 09:26:14 am »

And they have all been voted for on the back of just Random/jokey reasons.

To be fair, Jimmmmm is voting me because I didn't listen to his totalitarian instructions.  That's not "random/jokey" at all.

This is false.
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#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #131 on: October 15, 2015, 09:33:41 am »

I wasn't saying you should have done what I said. I'm saying we were basically saying the same thing (don't worry about switches), but at the same time you were worrying about switches.

This wasn't my takeaway from your post and our conversation.  So that's a misunderstanding on my part, I guess.  I thought you were saying "shhh...don't take about the setup or bad things will happen..."

If you had said "don't worry about the switches" that would have been super clear and great and easy.  Because, as noted, the switches are basically poop.

So, if we're in agreement, I rescind my other stuff about you.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #132 on: October 15, 2015, 09:34:07 am »

Pretty sure our PM made us Masons.

Fakeclaiming masons, I see.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### ashersky

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• 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #133 on: October 15, 2015, 09:34:58 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.

Vote: Ashersky for some reason I can't explain.

Probably jealousy.

Do you think it'd be alright if I just crashed here tonight?

Also +9001 for a Gin Blossoms reference.  One of the most underrated bands of the 90s.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### pacovf

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 - D1 Begins!
« Reply #134 on: October 15, 2015, 10:06:02 am »

Vote Count 1.1

Ichimaru Gin (1): chairs
silverspawn (1): ashersky
ashersky (5): Jimmmmm, Faust, Awaclus, silverspawn, Witherweaver

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

D1 ends October 22 at 7 pm forum time.

I wish I could edit posts!
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #135 on: October 15, 2015, 10:07:39 am »

The ash wagon is actually bad.

Vote: silverspawn
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #136 on: October 15, 2015, 10:12:15 am »

I do now understand, I think, the reason why people find Ash scummy. But I'm not convinced yet, and that was a fairly big wagon for so early.
So imma sheep faust for now, cos from the games I've read that seems to be how to win games.  vote: ss
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #137 on: October 15, 2015, 10:15:39 am »

The ash wagon is actually bad.

Vote: silverspawn

Fair enough.

Vote: Faust
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• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #138 on: October 15, 2015, 10:21:44 am »

Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #139 on: October 15, 2015, 10:22:47 am »

Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.

Why are you so worried?
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #140 on: October 15, 2015, 10:23:15 am »

Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.

Why are you so worried?

Seconded.
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• Young Witch
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• Posts: 142
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #141 on: October 15, 2015, 10:32:12 am »

I do now understand, I think, the reason why people find Ash scummy. But I'm not convinced yet, and that was a fairly big wagon for so early.
So imma sheep faust for now, cos from the games I've read that seems to be how to win games.  vote: ss

sheeping faust is one of my favorite strats.
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For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #142 on: October 15, 2015, 10:34:48 am »

Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.

Why are you so worried?
Cos I'd like, eventually, for us to have reasons for lynching somebody. If everyone voting for faust has a reason, then great. Otherwise we have a not-insignificant wagon on somebody, formed by essentially random chance.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #143 on: October 15, 2015, 10:50:36 am »

Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.

Why are you so worried?
Cos I'd like, eventually, for us to have reasons for lynching somebody. If everyone voting for faust has a reason, then great. Otherwise we have a not-insignificant wagon on somebody, formed by essentially random chance.

Well now I have a reason.
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #144 on: October 15, 2015, 10:53:59 am »

Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.

Why are you so worried?
Cos I'd like, eventually, for us to have reasons for lynching somebody. If everyone voting for faust has a reason, then great. Otherwise we have a not-insignificant wagon on somebody, formed by essentially random chance.

Who do we have a good reason to vote for?
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• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #145 on: October 15, 2015, 10:59:19 am »

Ok great. As long as you have a reason, go for it.

Care to share that reason, or not? I'd be genuinely interested.

Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.

Why are you so worried?
Cos I'd like, eventually, for us to have reasons for lynching somebody. If everyone voting for faust has a reason, then great. Otherwise we have a not-insignificant wagon on somebody, formed by essentially random chance.

Who do we have a good reason to vote for?
We dont necessarily,  right now. But we might do later. Im just trying to stop us getting carried away too early, weve still got time.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #146 on: October 15, 2015, 11:11:05 am »

You're weird defending of him.  Especially without defending ash.
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#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #147 on: October 15, 2015, 11:35:59 am »

I can't wait for the obligatory IG vs. faust fight.

When you two are scum together, it'll be neat to see if you can fake it.
But we were scum together in...I think flavorless? We were doing pretty solid up until the end too iirc.

did anyone miss me?

I did! vote: IG
ty.

And what else. Awaclus is Awaclus, I don't really have an opinion there yet.
Ummm ok. Can everyone who voted for faust in like the first fifteen posts or so just come check themselves? Suddenly that wagon is looking a bit massive now, and those early votes were definitely not reason-based, so could probably be changed.
I view this post as one of three possibilities.
1. New player (Is Haddock new to Mafia in general?) being concerned about something that's actually not concerning.
2. Scum defending their partner in a pretty blatant fashion.
3. Scum attempting to reinforce suspicion on someone else by trying to get votes off of them for no reason.

#### chairs

• Young Witch
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• Why don't you have a seat over there...
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #148 on: October 15, 2015, 11:36:22 am »

• Minion
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• Doc Cod
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #149 on: October 15, 2015, 12:19:03 pm »

I view this post as one of three possibilities.
1. New player (Is Haddock new to Mafia in general?) being concerned about something that's actually not concerning.
2. Scum defending their partner in a pretty blatant fashion.
3. Scum attempting to reinforce suspicion on someone else by trying to get votes off of them for no reason.
Yes, this is my first ever game of forum mafia. Im not sure im concerned, as such, I just want people on faust to contribute, since they're on the biggest wagon.

I did say im not convinced by the ash thing, so yeah if that comes back ill have something to say. The difference is that the people who were on Ash were still actively contributing.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #150 on: October 15, 2015, 02:09:48 pm »

yuma and I might be the only players left alive on f.ds that played this the first time it was run here (or was yuma the mod?).  I was scum there and from what I recall, the switches made zero difference.  We lost because of claims, but had a nice run with first-timer Qvist taking the first-ever MVP for a losing side.

All this to say: the switches mean poop.  PRs play like PRs play.

No the switches were meaningless because we lynched galz, the sk, day1 on a derphammer by me and I barely survived getting lynched on day2 for it... So the mafia just permanently left the switches in their favor and all prs were useless, or something like that...

Hey look, someone else talking about the switches, and being generally useful.

Boo Jimmmmm.

How does it help us lynch scum?

it might in the future. I think putting a moratorium on a certain subject isn't just a great idea. Jimmmm seems to think that if we allow talking about "switches" then scum will be able to communicate with the SK and co-ordinate switches. But that is just like.... What? Why has no one questioned this line or reasoning?

Why would mafia want to communicate with a SK? Or SK to the mafia. They aren't on the same team and at some point down the road if one knows about the other they will target and kill each other. So by all means mafia and SK can talk to each other if they want--and at the same time, hopefully the town players here would be able to possibly pick up on said communication.

Jimmmmm attempting to just shove all of that under the rug because he says it is in the best interest of the town is either misguided or scum trying to look pro-town in an easy fashion. in my experience, more talking means more finding scum because it means more opportunities for scum to say something/do something that town can pick up on immediately or at a future date to catch them.

and then using such reasoning to cast easy suspicion...

vote: Jimmmm
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#### silverspawn

• Governor
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• Posts: 4731
##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #151 on: October 15, 2015, 02:12:09 pm »

this one

That's a phenomenal post, and possibly the best one in the game up to this point.

You are just salty because you don't like me, my plans, and the fact that I win regardless of your opinion.

actually, no. No on all points, even. I don't dislike you - I judge people way more based on their moral standards than on how they treat me - and the reason why the post I quoted is scummy is because there is a narrative for mafia!you to subtly nudge SK!? into thinking more about the setup. I did not want to explain this for reasons which are now obvious but you made me to. which is bad.
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#### silverspawn

• Governor
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2015, 02:14:00 pm »

I deliberately avoided including you in potential RVS, but I can't not vote for you if you're my biggest scum read, which you were at that point. Not that it means much, because it was super early into day 1.
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2015, 02:21:01 pm »

The ash wagon is actually bad.

Vote: silverspawn

read ash's post again and then think some more about it - I think there's about a 46% chance that you will realize the strong scum narrative that it has in combination with the lack of a town narrative.
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #154 on: October 15, 2015, 02:48:28 pm »

it might in the future. I think putting a moratorium on a certain subject isn't just a great idea. Jimmmm seems to think that if we allow talking about "switches" then scum will be able to communicate with the SK and co-ordinate switches. But that is just like.... What? Why has no one questioned this line or reasoning?

Why would mafia want to communicate with a SK? Or SK to the mafia. They aren't on the same team and at some point down the road if one knows about the other they will target and kill each other. So by all means mafia and SK can talk to each other if they want--and at the same time, hopefully the town players here would be able to possibly pick up on said communication.

Jimmmmm attempting to just shove all of that under the rug because he says it is in the best interest of the town is either misguided or scum trying to look pro-town in an easy fashion. in my experience, more talking means more finding scum because it means more opportunities for scum to say something/do something that town can pick up on immediately or at a future date to catch them.

and then using such reasoning to cast easy suspicion...

vote: Jimmmm

Well, with some parts I can agree.

The SK and the mafia probably don't want to communicate. But if we were to talk about Switch tactics and reach a universally accepted best tactic, then both mafia and SK can act according to that.

More to the point though, talking about Switches does nothing for us. They do not influence town's decision making in the slightest.

I agree that it's convenient to cast suspicion on that basis though.

Me agreeing with you usually means you're scum though.
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#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #155 on: October 15, 2015, 02:53:27 pm »

My trying to quote stuff basically results in a time out.
I'll be back from class in a few hours. Maybe it'll be better then.

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #156 on: October 15, 2015, 03:02:42 pm »

Forum is slow for me too.

I think I see your point, silver. At least I see something, but it doesn't quite convince me. It makes me want to not vote you though.

So vote: Roadrunner for coming here, OMGUSing, and disappearing.
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #157 on: October 15, 2015, 03:16:06 pm »

The SK and the mafia probably don't want to communicate. But if we were to talk about Switch tactics and reach a universally accepted best tactic, then both mafia and SK can act according to that.

More to the point though, talking about Switches does nothing for us. They do not influence town's decision making in the slightest.

Sure. But no one was doing that. No one was saying "Optimal strategy for mafia would be X. Here you go mafia, freebee on me!" No one would do that. It doesn't even need to be stated.

If mafia wants to try and subtly try and communicate with the SK I say let them as I said above. At the worst they can barely understand each other, kinda work with each other for a day 1/2 and then kill each other off. At best town realizes there is some communication going on and lynches them.

but to put a hard fast rule against all communication not only prevents what wasn't ever going to happen in the first place, but also prevents what could have happened in town noticing some subtitles of mafia communicating. It prevented a potential scum hunting opportunity in exchange for Jimmmmm looking good. The only person who benefited from that post was Jimmmmm.

And, yeah forum is slow.
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #158 on: October 15, 2015, 03:24:55 pm »

See, the idea why it was bad was that SK might have messed up and done something stupid. With everything that happened, now that's impossible. At this point, we might aswell talk about it. Still not good idea, because there is nothing to talk about for town, but the damage has already been done beyond cluttering up the thread.

It would not have happened had everyone listened to Jimmmm immediately, and therefore everyone who didn't is scummy.
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #159 on: October 15, 2015, 03:25:36 pm »

vote: yuma
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #160 on: October 15, 2015, 03:25:44 pm »

I do now understand, I think, the reason why people find Ash scummy. But I'm not convinced yet, and that was a fairly big wagon for so early.
So imma sheep faust for now, cos from the games I've read that seems to be how to win games.  vote: ss

sheeping faust is one of my favorite strats.

we should start making it a stat included in the f.ds statistics!
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #161 on: October 15, 2015, 03:26:37 pm »

but to put a hard fast rule against all communication not only prevents what wasn't ever going to happen in the first place, but also prevents what could have happened in town noticing some subtitles of mafia communicating. It prevented a potential scum hunting opportunity in exchange for Jimmmmm looking good. The only person who benefited from that post was Jimmmmm.

You made so much more sense in fanfiction mafia
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #162 on: October 15, 2015, 03:29:11 pm »

See, the idea why it was bad was that SK might have messed up and done something stupid. With everything that happened, now that's impossible. At this point, we might aswell talk about it. Still not good idea, because there is nothing to talk about for town, but the damage has already been done beyond cluttering up the thread.

It would not have happened had everyone listened to Jimmmm immediately, and therefore everyone who didn't is scummy.

I don't follow... I feel like you are saying that based off the communication so far the SK would now have been able to infer an optimal play strategy that they might not have previously been able to do? I don't follow where that could come from... I don't see any post that said or even alluded to "this play strategy is better"

You are basically saying "the chance that mafia/SK might learn how to play better from us just discussing whether we should discuss this is worth a trade off for scum hunting opportunities"

that is like saying hoping osmosis would fulfill the need to drink water.
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #163 on: October 15, 2015, 03:30:14 pm »

but to put a hard fast rule against all communication not only prevents what wasn't ever going to happen in the first place, but also prevents what could have happened in town noticing some subtitles of mafia communicating. It prevented a potential scum hunting opportunity in exchange for Jimmmmm looking good. The only person who benefited from that post was Jimmmmm.

You made so much more sense in fanfiction mafia

I am making sense! Scum hunting opportunities are worth trading for any intangible and unlikely benefit the SK/Mafia might incur from obtaining those opportunities--plus the chance that SK and mafia will just kill themselves off for us.
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #164 on: October 15, 2015, 03:43:53 pm »

Forum is slow for me too.

I think I see your point, silver. At least I see something, but it doesn't quite convince me. It makes me want to not vote you though.

So vote: Roadrunner for coming here, OMGUSing, and disappearing.
Disappearing? And OMGUSing you? You've still earned my vote, buddy.
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #165 on: October 15, 2015, 03:48:47 pm »

You are basically saying "the chance that mafia/SK might learn how to play better from us just discussing whether we should discuss this is worth a trade off for scum hunting opportunities"

yes and indeed. the former has the potential to prevent massive advantages, whereas the former is hardly worth anything, since we can probably get scum reads more effectively by talking about other things.
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #166 on: October 15, 2015, 03:48:55 pm »

*the latter
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #167 on: October 15, 2015, 03:49:39 pm »

Forum is slow for me too.

I think I see your point, silver. At least I see something, but it doesn't quite convince me. It makes me want to not vote you though.

So vote: Roadrunner for coming here, OMGUSing, and disappearing.
Disappearing? And OMGUSing you? You've still earned my vote, buddy.

How did he earn it?
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: October 15, 2015, 03:51:46 pm »

You are basically saying "the chance that mafia/SK might learn how to play better from us just discussing whether we should discuss this is worth a trade off for scum hunting opportunities"

yes and indeed. the former has the potential to prevent massive advantages, whereas the former is hardly worth anything, since we can probably get scum reads more effectively by talking about other things.

I completely disagree. You really think someone got massive advantages from what we just talked about above. yes someone, like you, could theoretically spell out the perfect play for mafia/SK in this scenario, but no one was ever going to do that. And yeah, we will now scum hunt using other methods and that is fine, but it was a missed opportunity to see if someone would do something (try and communicate with SK or slightly manipulate how switches would work) that we could have used either immediately or later after getting some flips. now that opportunity is lost because any scum that thought "maybe I could try this" is know aware that we are on high alert and will be voted for just saying the word switch
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #169 on: October 15, 2015, 03:51:58 pm »

switch
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #170 on: October 15, 2015, 03:52:07 pm »

switch
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #171 on: October 15, 2015, 03:52:14 pm »

switch
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #172 on: October 15, 2015, 03:53:01 pm »

switch, switch, switch, switch, switchvote: jimmm

probably only ash will get this joke.... I miss a lot of people...
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#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #173 on: October 15, 2015, 04:03:14 pm »

I literally called the switches poop like twenty times.

Silver spawn freaking out about that is contrived.

vote: silverspawn
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #174 on: October 15, 2015, 04:08:13 pm »

I LIKE WHAT YOU GOT

Vote: Silverspawn
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #175 on: October 15, 2015, 04:11:52 pm »

Forum is slow for me too.

I think I see your point, silver. At least I see something, but it doesn't quite convince me. It makes me want to not vote you though.

So vote: Roadrunner for coming here, OMGUSing, and disappearing.
Disappearing? And OMGUSing you? You've still earned my vote, buddy.

How did he earn it?
With his tongue
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #176 on: October 15, 2015, 04:12:08 pm »

...
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #177 on: October 15, 2015, 04:30:59 pm »

...
His sharp tongue, as in a figure or speech.

That's what people want to hear
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #178 on: October 15, 2015, 04:49:54 pm »

meh I believe that your reasoning is genuine, even if you are wrong.

unvote
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #179 on: October 15, 2015, 05:09:42 pm »

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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #180 on: October 15, 2015, 05:10:17 pm »

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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #181 on: October 15, 2015, 05:22:02 pm »

What do you think about his different treatment of the (otherwise fairly similar) Faust and Ashersky wagons?
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #182 on: October 15, 2015, 05:31:15 pm »

What do you think about his different treatment of the (otherwise fairly similar) Faust and Ashersky wagons?

how are they similar? the one is good and the other one, well, is a faust wagon.
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #183 on: October 15, 2015, 05:35:57 pm »

What do you think about his different treatment of the (otherwise fairly similar) Faust and Ashersky wagons?

Well it's true that literally none of the 4 faust votes had any substance. I'd say the concern is still definitely worth noting though.
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #184 on: October 15, 2015, 05:36:45 pm »

What do you think about his different treatment of the (otherwise fairly similar) Faust and Ashersky wagons?

Well it's true that literally none of the 4 faust votes had any substance. I'd say the concern is still definitely worth noting though.

I don't think the Ash votes had a whole lot of substance.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #185 on: October 15, 2015, 05:37:37 pm »

What do you think about his different treatment of the (otherwise fairly similar) Faust and Ashersky wagons?

Well it's true that literally none of the 4 faust votes had any substance. I'd say the concern is still definitely worth noting though.

I don't think the Ash votes had a whole lot of substance.

My ash vote does.
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #186 on: October 15, 2015, 05:40:43 pm »

What do you think about his different treatment of the (otherwise fairly similar) Faust and Ashersky wagons?

Well it's true that literally none of the 4 faust votes had any substance. I'd say the concern is still definitely worth noting though.

I don't think the Ash votes had a whole lot of substance.

Well that's subjective. The faust votes were over sleeping, OMGUS, impersonating ss and enjoying himself.
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #187 on: October 15, 2015, 05:44:47 pm »

The faust votes were over sleeping

First day on the job, you know what I learned? How to spot a murderer. Let's say you arrest three guys for the same killing. You put them all in jail overnight. The next morning, whoever's sleeping is your man. You see, if you're guilty, you know you're caught, you get some rest, you let your guard down.
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #188 on: October 15, 2015, 05:47:02 pm »

The faust votes were over sleeping

First day on the job, you know what I learned? How to spot a murderer. Let's say you arrest three guys for the same killing. You put them all in jail overnight. The next morning, whoever's sleeping is your man. You see, if you're guilty, you know you're caught, you get some rest, you let your guard down.

But the scum haven't even murdered anyone yet!
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #189 on: October 15, 2015, 05:48:07 pm »

I literally called the switches poop like twenty times.

Silver spawn freaking out about that is contrived.

vote: silverspawn

I don't think silver is freaking out. I don't think this is a good vote.
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #190 on: October 15, 2015, 06:00:50 pm »

Witherweaver - definitely town because he said so.
Roadrunner7671 - only empty posts. Not posting for a while, but suddenly around when called out on it. Scummy.
Ashersky - a little less reasonable-, kinda in-the-background-ash from fanfiction and a little more usual ash who doesn't care what other people think. Slight town.
gkrieg13 - has gkrieg done anything yet? Null.
Haddock - his defending me is a bit weird. White knighting? Slight scum.
Awaclus - I can't read that guy anyway. Null.
Silverspawn - what he does feels genuine. Town.
Ichimaru Gin - null. Not enough information so far.
Jimmmmm - yuma has a point. Slight scum.
Yuma - not sure yet. Null.
Chairs - also null.
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #191 on: October 15, 2015, 06:02:29 pm »

Remind me what a Hydrad moment is?
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #192 on: October 15, 2015, 06:05:02 pm »

Remind me what a Hydrad moment is?

It's a post by Hydrad that makes his alignment very clear. Happens more often for town!Hydrad than for scum!Hydrad.
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #193 on: October 15, 2015, 07:09:59 pm »

Witherweaver - definitely town because he said so.
Roadrunner7671 - only empty posts. Not posting for a while, but suddenly around when called out on it. Scummy.
Ashersky - a little less reasonable-, kinda in-the-background-ash from fanfiction and a little more usual ash who doesn't care what other people think. Slight town.
gkrieg13 - has gkrieg done anything yet? Null.
Haddock - his defending me is a bit weird. White knighting? Slight scum.
Awaclus - I can't read that guy anyway. Null.
Silverspawn - what he does feels genuine. Town.
Ichimaru Gin - null. Not enough information so far.
Jimmmmm - yuma has a point. Slight scum.
Yuma - not sure yet. Null.
Chairs - also null.

This is the least Faust thing that this Faust has ever Fausted.
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #194 on: October 15, 2015, 07:10:59 pm »

Haddock - his defending me is a bit weird. White knighting? Slight scum.

Also this makes me want to lynch one of them.
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• Torturer
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #195 on: October 15, 2015, 07:12:45 pm »

Wow. Because I feel the need to defend my honor, I am scum all of a sudden.

What even is scum? Is that slang for mafia?
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #196 on: October 15, 2015, 07:13:19 pm »

Haddock - his defending me is a bit weird. White knighting? Slight scum.

Also this makes me want to lynch one of them.

I suggest you start with Haddock. Then, if he's scum, you can lynch me for being his partner. And if he's town, you can lynch me for pushing his mislynch. You win either way!
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #197 on: October 15, 2015, 07:13:54 pm »

Haddock - his defending me is a bit weird. White knighting? Slight scum.

Also this makes me want to lynch one of them.

I suggest you start with Haddock. Then, if he's scum, you can lynch me for being his partner. And if he's town, you can lynch me for pushing his mislynch. You win either way!
I second that notion, that will be two nights where I will not be lynched!
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #198 on: October 15, 2015, 07:14:02 pm »

Wow. Because I feel the need to defend my honor, I am scum all of a sudden.

What even is scum? Is that slang for mafia?

Scum is everyone who plays against town's win condition. In this game, it would be mafia and the Serial Killer.
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #199 on: October 15, 2015, 07:14:47 pm »

Wow. Because I feel the need to defend my honor, I am scum all of a sudden.

What even is scum? Is that slang for mafia?

Scum is everyone who plays against town's win condition. In this game, it would be mafia and the Serial Killer.
Or a rebellious Vanilla Townie...
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #200 on: October 15, 2015, 07:16:35 pm »

Or a rebellious Vanilla Townie...

Is this a claim?
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #201 on: October 15, 2015, 07:17:03 pm »

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#### chairs

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #202 on: October 15, 2015, 07:17:56 pm »

• Torturer
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #203 on: October 15, 2015, 07:18:35 pm »

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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #204 on: October 15, 2015, 07:20:12 pm »

Haddock - his defending me is a bit weird. White knighting? Slight scum.

Also this makes me want to lynch one of them.

I suggest you start with Haddock. Then, if he's scum, you can lynch me for being his partner. And if he's town, you can lynch me for pushing his mislynch. You win either way!

Sounds good!

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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #205 on: October 15, 2015, 07:20:38 pm »

\inbefore "Coached to play up newbieness"
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #206 on: October 15, 2015, 07:21:40 pm »

Or a rebellious Vanilla Townie...

Is this a claim?
What's a claim?

Claim is when you claim something. Usually it means that you tell everyone what your role is, and possibly any other information you might have acquired because of your role (which might be your actual role or something you made up; the latter case is also known as fakeclaiming).
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #207 on: October 15, 2015, 07:22:50 pm »

Or a rebellious Vanilla Townie...

Is this a claim?
What's a claim?

Claim is when you claim something. Usually it means that you tell everyone what your role is, and possibly any other information you might have acquired because of your role (which might be your actual role or something you made up; the latter case is also known as fakeclaiming).
Ah, I see. Then I 'claim' to be a vanilla townie. Even if I am not, you all know I am a total noob. I still don't fully understand the switches, so I'd be pretty bad at being scum.
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #208 on: October 15, 2015, 07:25:36 pm »

Ah, I see. Then I 'claim' to be a vanilla townie. Even if I am not, you all know I am a total noob. I still don't fully understand the switches, so I'd be pretty bad at being scum.

Well. You understand lying as town is bad, yes?

We need to lynch you now.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #209 on: October 15, 2015, 07:29:53 pm »

Or a rebellious Vanilla Townie...

Is this a claim?
What's a claim?

Claim is when you claim something. Usually it means that you tell everyone what your role is, and possibly any other information you might have acquired because of your role (which might be your actual role or something you made up; the latter case is also known as fakeclaiming).
Ah, I see. Then I 'claim' to be a vanilla townie. Even if I am not, you all know I am a total noob. I still don't fully understand the switches, so I'd be pretty bad at being scum.

Usually it's not a good idea to claim to be a vanilla townie out of nowhere, because if you really are a vanilla townie, scum won't kill you and then they have a better chance of killing a PR instead. Actually, it's usually not a good idea to claim most things out of nowhere.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #210 on: October 15, 2015, 07:31:55 pm »

Also, it doesn't matter how bad you supposedly would be as scum. If you're scum and you never get lynched because of how bad you would be as scum, then you win anyway.
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #211 on: October 15, 2015, 07:36:24 pm »

Actually though, unvote. This does not feel fake.

So for the other newbie then? Vote: Haddock
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #212 on: October 15, 2015, 07:47:03 pm »

Or a rebellious Vanilla Townie...

Is this a claim?
What's a claim?

Claim is when you claim something. Usually it means that you tell everyone what your role is, and possibly any other information you might have acquired because of your role (which might be your actual role or something you made up; the latter case is also known as fakeclaiming).
Ah, I see. Then I 'claim' to be a vanilla townie. Even if I am not, you all know I am a total noob. I still don't fully understand the switches, so I'd be pretty bad at being scum.

Usually it's not a good idea to claim to be a vanilla townie out of nowhere, because if you really are a vanilla townie, scum won't kill you and then they have a better chance of killing a PR instead. Actually, it's usually not a good idea to claim most things out of nowhere.
You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #213 on: October 15, 2015, 07:50:54 pm »

You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?

Yes. Pretty much. Also by claiming VT we know that you do not have a town PR, i.e. you are either VT or scum. This makes you a better lynch target than anyone else on paper, because we can be sure not to lynch a PR.

I read you as town from this, but that doesn't make it good play. And for the record: It will never work in the future.
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#### Twistedarcher

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #214 on: October 15, 2015, 07:56:34 pm »

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (1): Awaclus
Jimmmmm (1): Yuma

Not Voting (1): Silverspawn

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

D1 ends October 22 at 7 pm forum time.
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #215 on: October 15, 2015, 07:57:28 pm »

You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?

Yes. Pretty much. Also by claiming VT we know that you do not have a town PR, i.e. you are either VT or scum. This makes you a better lynch target than anyone else on paper, because we can be sure not to lynch a PR.

I read you as town from this, but that doesn't make it good play. And for the record: It will never work in the future.
Why will I need to do it again? If people have reads like you, I should be safe. And how do you know I'm not a PR who is lying?
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #216 on: October 15, 2015, 07:58:46 pm »

Witherweaver - definitely town because he said so.
Roadrunner7671 - only empty posts. Not posting for a while, but suddenly around when called out on it. Scummy.
Ashersky - a little less reasonable-, kinda in-the-background-ash from fanfiction and a little more usual ash who doesn't care what other people think. Slight town.
gkrieg13 - has gkrieg done anything yet? Null.
Haddock - his defending me is a bit weird. White knighting? Slight scum.
Awaclus - I can't read that guy anyway. Null.
Silverspawn - what he does feels genuine. Town.
Ichimaru Gin - null. Not enough information so far.
Jimmmmm - yuma has a point. Slight scum.
Yuma - not sure yet. Null.
Chairs - also null.

This is the least Faust thing that this Faust has ever Fausted.

Totally. And way too early to have any meaning.
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #217 on: October 15, 2015, 08:00:24 pm »

You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?

Yes. Pretty much. Also by claiming VT we know that you do not have a town PR, i.e. you are either VT or scum. This makes you a better lynch target than anyone else on paper, because we can be sure not to lynch a PR.

I read you as town from this, but that doesn't make it good play. And for the record: It will never work in the future.
Why will I need to do it again? If people have reads like you, I should be safe. And how do you know I'm not a PR who is lying?

Lying as Town is generally considered to be just about always bad. It's probably less bad in this setup than average since we know what PRs we have. But it's still generally not advised.
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #218 on: October 15, 2015, 08:02:22 pm »

\inbefore "Coached to play up newbieness"

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #219 on: October 15, 2015, 08:03:18 pm »

You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?

Yes. Pretty much. Also by claiming VT we know that you do not have a town PR, i.e. you are either VT or scum. This makes you a better lynch target than anyone else on paper, because we can be sure not to lynch a PR.

I read you as town from this, but that doesn't make it good play. And for the record: It will never work in the future.
Why will I need to do it again? If people have reads like you, I should be safe. And how do you know I'm not a PR who is lying?

Lying as Town is generally considered to be just about always bad. It's probably less bad in this setup than average since we know what PRs we have. But it's still generally not advised.
So if you are a Vanilla Townie, it is bad to claim to be the Doctor, for example?
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #220 on: October 15, 2015, 08:04:06 pm »

You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?

Yes. Pretty much. Also by claiming VT we know that you do not have a town PR, i.e. you are either VT or scum. This makes you a better lynch target than anyone else on paper, because we can be sure not to lynch a PR.

I read you as town from this, but that doesn't make it good play. And for the record: It will never work in the future.
Why will I need to do it again? If people have reads like you, I should be safe. And how do you know I'm not a PR who is lying?

Lying as Town is generally considered to be just about always bad. It's probably less bad in this setup than average since we know what PRs we have. But it's still generally not advised.
So if you are a Vanilla Townie, it is bad to claim to be the Doctor, for example?

Yes that would definitely be bad.
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #221 on: October 15, 2015, 08:04:58 pm »

You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?

Yes. Pretty much. Also by claiming VT we know that you do not have a town PR, i.e. you are either VT or scum. This makes you a better lynch target than anyone else on paper, because we can be sure not to lynch a PR.

I read you as town from this, but that doesn't make it good play. And for the record: It will never work in the future.
Why will I need to do it again? If people have reads like you, I should be safe. And how do you know I'm not a PR who is lying?

Lying as Town is generally considered to be just about always bad. It's probably less bad in this setup than average since we know what PRs we have. But it's still generally not advised.
So if you are a Vanilla Townie, it is bad to claim to be the Doctor, for example?

Yes that would definitely be bad.
And why?
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#### Jimmmmm

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #222 on: October 15, 2015, 08:18:22 pm »

You know what? It got someone to unvote from me. So, thank you for the advice, but I still claim to be a vanilla townie. Why would I want to get killed by scum? So that PRs can live?

Yes. Pretty much. Also by claiming VT we know that you do not have a town PR, i.e. you are either VT or scum. This makes you a better lynch target than anyone else on paper, because we can be sure not to lynch a PR.

I read you as town from this, but that doesn't make it good play. And for the record: It will never work in the future.
Why will I need to do it again? If people have reads like you, I should be safe. And how do you know I'm not a PR who is lying?

Lying as Town is generally considered to be just about always bad. It's probably less bad in this setup than average since we know what PRs we have. But it's still generally not advised.
So if you are a Vanilla Townie, it is bad to claim to be the Doctor, for example?

Yes that would definitely be bad.
And why?

Imagine you were the Doctor and someone else claimed Doctor. You would know they were lying, and counterclaim them to try to get them lynched.

As well as having their powers, PRs also get to be either ICs or create a 1 Town/1 scum pair, either of which are generally good for Town. This only works if we take claims seriously as either truthful or scum.
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #223 on: October 15, 2015, 08:23:39 pm »

RR did you read any of the previous games here. I am not saying you have to but I would suggest it. Probably should have suggested it earlier. A short newbie game would be ideal.

Chairs came off the worst from that whole exchange
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#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #224 on: October 15, 2015, 08:43:32 pm »

This is the least Faust thing that this Faust has ever Fausted.
This.

Is this RR's first game also?

I actually like a vote: Haddock at this point. Something I hadn't thought of earlier was I can easily see newbie scum trying to get town points for projecting concern about quicklynches or something.
In my first scum (and in general) game, I recall playing up my newbieness to the point of garnering suspicion for it. I legitimately had a lot of questions and felt confused by stuff though, not sure what (if anything) I would have done differently if I'd been town my first game.

#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #225 on: October 15, 2015, 08:45:08 pm »

Chairs came off the worst from that whole exchange
Yeah. Pretty much this.

I'm not a fan of votes with no (or implied) explanations. I've heard people defend them though.

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #226 on: October 15, 2015, 09:00:43 pm »

This is the least Faust thing that this Faust has ever Fausted.
This.

Is this RR's first game also?

I actually like a vote: Haddock at this point. Something I hadn't thought of earlier was I can easily see newbie scum trying to get town points for projecting concern about quicklynches or something.
In my first scum (and in general) game, I recall playing up my newbieness to the point of garnering suspicion for it. I legitimately had a lot of questions and felt confused by stuff though, not sure what (if anything) I would have done differently if I'd been town my first game.
I don't mean to get myself lynched, but haven't I done that more than Haddock?
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #227 on: October 15, 2015, 09:17:38 pm »

Lying as Town is generally considered to be just about always bad. It's probably less bad in this setup than average since we know what PRs we have. But it's still generally not advised.

Well, I think lying as town can be good quite often (in the same way that omitting information can be good quite often), but if you're lying about having a PR when you don't really have one, you really have to be extremely confident that the person who could counterclaim you will preferably realize what you're doing, and absolutely won't counterclaim or out himself even if he thinks you're scum, and that the gambit will surely pay off if it works (i.e. the PR you manage to protect by attracting the kill to yourself really has to be super crucial for town).

Lying about being a VT when you really are a PR is a lot more reasonable in many situations.
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#### Ichimaru Gin

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #228 on: October 15, 2015, 09:21:47 pm »

This is the least Faust thing that this Faust has ever Fausted.
This.

Is this RR's first game also?

I actually like a vote: Haddock at this point. Something I hadn't thought of earlier was I can easily see newbie scum trying to get town points for projecting concern about quicklynches or something.
In my first scum (and in general) game, I recall playing up my newbieness to the point of garnering suspicion for it. I legitimately had a lot of questions and felt confused by stuff though, not sure what (if anything) I would have done differently if I'd been town my first game.
I don't mean to get myself lynched, but haven't I done that more than Haddock?
Oh yeah. Those two thoughts kind of ran together. I should have separated them and clarified who I was referring to. You're right.

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #229 on: October 15, 2015, 09:22:27 pm »

Lying as Town is generally considered to be just about always bad. It's probably less bad in this setup than average since we know what PRs we have. But it's still generally not advised.

Well, I think lying as town can be good quite often (in the same way that omitting information can be good quite often), but if you're lying about having a PR when you don't really have one, you really have to be extremely confident that the person who could counterclaim you will preferably realize what you're doing, and absolutely won't counterclaim or out himself even if he thinks you're scum, and that the gambit will surely pay off if it works (i.e. the PR you manage to protect by attracting the kill to yourself really has to be super crucial for town).

Lying about being a VT when you really are a PR is a lot more reasonable in many situations.
And if you're scum, obviously claim VT, right?
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#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #230 on: October 15, 2015, 09:25:35 pm »

\inbefore "Coached to play up newbieness"

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

EFHW was against my lynch the first game and that was what made me vig her.  I was correct.
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#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #231 on: October 15, 2015, 09:30:02 pm »

definitely still feeling a Faust lynch. Although ash has been much different this game.
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#### yuma

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #232 on: October 15, 2015, 09:35:01 pm »

What does different mean?

People keep using that term but what does it even mean? Different how? Different in a scummy way?
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #233 on: October 15, 2015, 09:35:19 pm »

Unvote: Faust
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #234 on: October 15, 2015, 09:40:39 pm »

And if you're scum, obviously claim VT, right?

Depends on the situation. If you're about to get lynched, you might want to claim a PR, because then the real PR can counterclaim you and your partners will know who to shoot. If you're lucky, you might even manage to claim a PR that nobody can counterclaim, and then that might help you survive. OTOH, sometimes you might convince people of your towniness by fakeclaiming VT as scum, and VT is a pretty safe claim in mass claim situations.
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #235 on: October 15, 2015, 09:42:19 pm »

Okay. Goodnight all, I may be back in a few hours.
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#### Awaclus

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #236 on: October 15, 2015, 09:43:44 pm »

You just sleep for a few hours?
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#### Witherweaver

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #237 on: October 15, 2015, 10:22:18 pm »

Nah,

Vote: Faust

is where it's at.
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#### gkrieg13

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #238 on: October 15, 2015, 10:56:27 pm »

What does different mean?

People keep using that term but what does it even mean? Different how? Different in a scummy way?

Not really in a scummy way.  He just doesn't seem as abrasive.  Maybe that means he's town?  I was just watching him carefully when we were partners and he always had a plan.  He doesn't seem to have a concrete plan here.
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• Torturer
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #239 on: October 15, 2015, 11:22:29 pm »

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#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #240 on: October 16, 2015, 02:51:28 am »

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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #241 on: October 16, 2015, 04:57:57 am »

OK, lots going on since I disappeared.

Firstly, it appears my original estimate of posting mid-afternoon forum time is going to be off, at least for the next few days, my girlfriend is in town meaning my posting will mostly be happening during the day GMT, ie. early morning forum time.  Just so everyone knows.

I want to make one thing clear.  At no point did I defend Faust.  I made one post about the people voting for Faust, asking them to contribute.  Now they are, so I'd say that original post has served its purpose.

As for "playing up my newbieness", I really wouldn't say I've done that.  One person asked me whether I was totally new, and I said I am, that's it.  And if you're counting my behaviour itself as intentionally acting newbie, well, see previous paragraph.

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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #242 on: October 16, 2015, 04:58:29 am »

When I say disappeared, by the way, I mean "went to sleep".
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #243 on: October 16, 2015, 05:06:01 am »

This is the least Faust thing that this Faust has ever Fausted.
This.

Is this RR's first game also?

I actually like a vote: Haddock at this point. Something I hadn't thought of earlier was I can easily see newbie scum trying to get town points for projecting concern about quicklynches or something.
In my first scum (and in general) game, I recall playing up my newbieness to the point of garnering suspicion for it. I legitimately had a lot of questions and felt confused by stuff though, not sure what (if anything) I would have done differently if I'd been town my first game.

Hey! You are not allowed to agree with me.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #244 on: October 16, 2015, 05:07:05 am »

And if you're scum, obviously claim VT, right?

In this setup, probably.
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #245 on: October 16, 2015, 05:08:39 am »

Nah,

Vote: Faust

is where it's at.

Ah. Because I'm not fausting faust enough things?
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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #246 on: October 16, 2015, 05:18:25 am »

Catching up:

Witherweaver seems a bit all over the place, like he's acting torn about whether to vote for me or Faust.  I dunno, feels genuine.
Ichi seems pretty towny to me.
In the absence of a better read, I'm going to vote: chairs.  I don't like his unexplained votes.
Jimmm seems to be being quite firm about things in general.  Can people confirm that this is him usually?
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #247 on: October 16, 2015, 06:22:55 am »

Vote: ashersky
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#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #248 on: October 16, 2015, 06:25:19 am »

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

Robz wanted to lynch a newbie in M10, my first game.  We lynched him for it because we thought it was scummy.  I was town, so was he.

Since then, we've always given newbies a pass early in the game, and due to that, there's always been a "play up your newbieness" thing for newbie scum.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #249 on: October 16, 2015, 06:40:03 am »

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

Robz wanted to lynch a newbie in M10, my first game.  We lynched him for it because we thought it was scummy.  I was town, so was he.

Since then, we've always given newbies a pass early in the game, and due to that, there's always been a "play up your newbieness" thing for newbie scum.
One could argue that I was 'playing up my noobiness,' but how was I supposed to know that scum does that?
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#### faust

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #250 on: October 16, 2015, 06:45:09 am »

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

Robz wanted to lynch a newbie in M10, my first game.  We lynched him for it because we thought it was scummy.  I was town, so was he.

Since then, we've always given newbies a pass early in the game, and due to that, there's always been a "play up your newbieness" thing for newbie scum.

Ah, I'm not sure I agree. We often give newbie town passes because newbie town does some stuff that is really hard to fake as newbie scum (see: Roadrunner in thsi game). I think we manage to catch newbie scum fairly often. "Playing up newbieness"is often mentioned, but can you point me to a single game where that was a thing?
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#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #251 on: October 16, 2015, 06:50:00 am »

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

Robz wanted to lynch a newbie in M10, my first game.  We lynched him for it because we thought it was scummy.  I was town, so was he.

Since then, we've always given newbies a pass early in the game, and due to that, there's always been a "play up your newbieness" thing for newbie scum.
One could argue that I was 'playing up my noobiness,' but how was I supposed to know that scum does that?

Your partners would have told you to do it.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #252 on: October 16, 2015, 06:51:06 am »

WW, can you explain what is so suspicious about faust's play? Seems fine to me.
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#### ashersky

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #253 on: October 16, 2015, 06:51:19 am »

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

Robz wanted to lynch a newbie in M10, my first game.  We lynched him for it because we thought it was scummy.  I was town, so was he.

Since then, we've always given newbies a pass early in the game, and due to that, there's always been a "play up your newbieness" thing for newbie scum.

Ah, I'm not sure I agree. We often give newbie town passes because newbie town does some stuff that is really hard to fake as newbie scum (see: Roadrunner in thsi game). I think we manage to catch newbie scum fairly often. "Playing up newbieness"is often mentioned, but can you point me to a single game where that was a thing?

I know I did it once, where I had a newish player and we had him play it up.  I don't know if it worked, but I rarely lose, so I'll assume it did.

I disagree with you on RR -- all of his "newbie" stuff feels incredibly fake to me.  It's just not possible for someone to be this unaware of how mafia works if they've played before, even if only IRL.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #254 on: October 16, 2015, 06:52:49 am »

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

Robz wanted to lynch a newbie in M10, my first game.  We lynched him for it because we thought it was scummy.  I was town, so was he.

Since then, we've always given newbies a pass early in the game, and due to that, there's always been a "play up your newbieness" thing for newbie scum.
One could argue that I was 'playing up my noobiness,' but how was I supposed to know that scum does that?

Your partners would have told you to do it.
As fair of a point as that is, I am willing to make another claim:

I am a Vanilla Townie, aka Vanilla Villager, aka the guy who you should not lynch.
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #255 on: October 16, 2015, 06:53:15 am »

This is the least Faust thing that this Faust has ever Fausted.
This.

same question to you: why?
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #256 on: October 16, 2015, 06:54:31 am »

I can't remember... Is wanting to lynch newbies a town tell or a scumtell? If I can't remember that probably means it is neither.

But really I think it was a tow tell cause mafia wouldn't want to risk the wrath of town being upset that you would want to lynch a newbie. I think robs came up with that and it turned out it was generally correct.

Robz wanted to lynch a newbie in M10, my first game.  We lynched him for it because we thought it was scummy.  I was town, so was he.

Since then, we've always given newbies a pass early in the game, and due to that, there's always been a "play up your newbieness" thing for newbie scum.
One could argue that I was 'playing up my noobiness,' but how was I supposed to know that scum does that?

Your partners would have told you to do it.
As fair of a point as that is, I am willing to make another claim:

I am a Vanilla Townie, aka Vanilla Villager, aka the guy who you should not lynch.

I think town who claimed VT got lynched 3 our of 4 times in f.ds history

the one time where he didn't get lynched was when I did it
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#### silverspawn

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##### Re: M70: Switch Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #257 on: October 16, 2015, 06:55:02 am »

EBWOF: Claimed VT day 1