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Author Topic: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov. 21 2015, Ypsilanti, MI, 2pm - 10pm  (Read 21771 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Regarding the finals kingdom, I wasn't watching too closely but I feel like Summon got underplayed quite a bit here. With being able to stack your deck, a turn 1 Summoned Transmogrify (if I have the rules right) can get you a Soldier, a trashed Hovel, and a Ferry token on the card of your choice (Upgrade) by the end of turn 2. You miss out on opening Upgrade but getting such a head start on getting to Disciple seems like it might be worth it.
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Deadlock39

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Regarding the finals kingdom, I wasn't watching too closely but I feel like Summon got underplayed quite a bit here. With being able to stack your deck, a turn 1 Summoned Transmogrify (if I have the rules right) can get you a Soldier, a trashed Hovel, and a Ferry token on the card of your choice (Upgrade) by the end of turn 2. You miss out on opening Upgrade but getting such a head start on getting to Disciple seems like it might be worth it.

Um... mind blown. This type of thing makes me want to beg for a stacked start option in Dominion Online.

Elestan

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Oh, and <3 to Adam for that great recap of his tournament experience!  I'd love to see something similar from the other players if they can remember how their games went.  If anyone has feedback for the convention outside of the tournament, I can also forward it to the appropriate person(s).
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 03:24:53 pm by Elestan »
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Roadrunner7671

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Oh, and <3 to Adam for that great recap of his tournament experience!  I'd love to see something similar from the other players if they can remember how their games went.  If anyone has feedback for the convention outside of the tournament, I can also forward it to the appropriate person(s).
Man, I got outplayed in all but one of my kingdoms. I don't think anyone really wants to hear from me, but I might later just because.
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Awaclus

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Why would you need to do any editing? I looked stunning.
like 9.
#triggered

That's your fault for calling me twice as old as you are.
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Roadrunner7671

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Why would you need to do any editing? I looked stunning.
like 9.
#triggered

That's your fault for calling me twice as old as you are.
Links or it didn't happen.
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Awaclus

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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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Fine, it happened. I guess you're just mature for your age, Awaclus.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Oh, and thanks to everyone who showed up to the Advanced Strategy session, and special thanks to Iguanaiguana for sitting through thirty minutes of me trying to explain why Minion is a good card.
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AHoppy

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Man I really wished I had been around for the video, but I was having such a bad Dominion day that day... After getting my Summon card I just left and got dinner with other non-F.DS people.

I also don't have anything to say about my games... I came in last in every game except my first one.  I started on Adam's second board and was one board ahead of him (so the one he hated) and was always one board ahead of Adam.  I did the inherit scout thing with the intention of using +1 card token on it.  My downfall:  I put my +buy token on it with seaway thinking I could still put the +card token on it later because I slipped on the rules... So I took the time to remove the token, then put it on later.  It cost me at least 3 turns.  Finally on my last turn I got things to come together to buy the last province, a duchy and an estate.  I feel like if I hadn't lost so much time I could have done better, but none of us were doing anything fast and were just spinning out wheels... I'm not defending my choice, but I think I could have done better had I not screwed up teacher.

The thief/alms game, I tried the fancy Horn/hunting party stuff.  Didn't wok at all...

The develop board, I lost to liopoil.  I opened develop fortress hoping to get jump started on the highway/wishing well split but got distracted by the +buy on merchant guild and also trashed my doctor before I could thin enough.  The third person did big money and so when my engine didn't fire and lio's did, I lost because she had a few more points than I did... Ah well.

My last game was the board with treasure map and storyteller.  Since I really had no chance to do well at all in the tournament I decided to try something different.  I bought treasure maps hoping to use storyteller to get them to collide, then later use counterfeits to make them awesome.  It worked, but it wasn't quite fast enough to work.  I think I got a few unfortunate draws near the end and my counterfeit never collided with any of my like 5 golds...  It was a bit out there, but  I thought it was worth a shot.

Thanks so much for organizing this Elestan!  Thanks to ADK for modding and answering our rules question on my first table.  And thanks to Adam for the advanced strategy session.  I would have come to the tournament review if I were staying in the hotel.  My arrival time was not chosen by me though. 

Also thanks to Voltaire for playing one league match with me really late.  I would have stayed and played more, but I didn't want to keep people up who I depended on to get a ride home.

I'm glad I got to meet all of you even if we didn't talk all that much or ever play a game together.  You're all wonderful people.

I'll definitely see some of you in Cincinnati on 1/30/16, I really need some Dominion redemption after that lousy showing.

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Umm, if you put your +1 Card token on Scouts and then inherit them, your Estate-Scouts don't draw cards because they aren't from that pile. It's just your real Scouts that do. Am I missing something on this?

Like, I don't see how "inheriting Scouts" can "come together" in any way unless you're taking an extra card for Estate-Scouts.
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AHoppy

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Then we played it wrong because I was drawing cards with mine...

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Umm, if you put your +1 Card token on Scouts and then inherit them, your Estate-Scouts don't draw cards because they aren't from that pile. It's just your real Scouts that do. Am I missing something on this?

Like, I don't see how "inheriting Scouts" can "come together" in any way unless you're taking an extra card for Estate-Scouts.
You'd inherent Scouts so that you could buy them for half the cost and to get 1 VP per Scout in your deck, obviously.
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Elestan

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Man, I got outplayed in all but one of my kingdoms. I don't think anyone really wants to hear from me, but I might later just because.
You won three games, actually (your third and fourth prelim games, and the second-place playoff at the end), but the interesting thing about your record is that you never came in third.  That means that across all of those kingdoms, you were always able to select and execute a strategy that worked, even if it might not have been optimal.  Nobody else except Adam managed that feat, and I'm certainly interested to hear about it.
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Okay Elestan, I can talk about when you should and shouldn't use big money to shoot for second place.

I will post in a few hours.
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Here we go. I played nine tournament games of Dominion, yet I found none of them tense. There was no pressure at all. I guess we'll get right into the games.

Game One
I'm sorry, but I can't really post the kingdom from a phone. It's so much work. But I played this kingdom with Iguanaiguana and some guy named...Michael. Michael was the kind of guy who would pick up Coppers if he remembered. No offense Michael, I didn't see you as a threat. Iguanaiguana on the other hand was on fire in the tournament!
So this board had JOAT, Storyteller, Gardens, Mining Village, Forager, Throne Room, and some other cards. No events though, the only attack was Rogue.
So I knew Iguanaiguana could outplay me in any mirror, I still know that. He went for a Storyteller unreliable engine that could've blown anything else out of the water. I went for double Jack with two Foragers. Look at how boring I am! Iguanaiguana didn't win by so many points, and I think I made a mistake where I should've broken PPE. I took second place that game.

Game Two
I got to play my mom (Alyce) and AHoppy. The cards that mattered with Thief, Gardens, Taxman, Contraband, Hunting Party and Poor House (just kidding, Poor House was terrible).
Alyce did what she normally did, bought random cards (including two Contrabands) and AHoppy didn't let her get Hunting Parties.
No offense AHoppy, but you and this board did not get along. He went for Horn with space for one terminal. He got too fancy, and I think he was a tad frustrated.
I tried to do like a Hunting Party stack with only a few Hunting Parties. I opened Mandarin though. I ended up ending the game and losing by one point to Alyce. So she got her win for the evening on that board.

Game Three
Ah yes, the 'we hate RR now!!!11' board. There was Scrying Pool, Herald, Plan, Training, Stables, Vineyards, Crossroads, and no +buy.
I used both the events on Scrying Pool and grabbed six of them. With a Herald, a Crossroads, and a Stables, I had enough support to humiliate my opponents and win by about 50 points. Sorry guys.
One of my opponents didn't thin and went for a Stables stack. He also picked up Heralds, which was an error in my opinion.
One of my Opponents tried Scrying Pool, but they planned on Heralds. With less thinning and only like two Pools, she had a lot of trouble. I felt bad playing this. Be my opponents, proud adults entering the Dominion tournament. Some nervous, tousled kid sits down at your table, then cracks the game open. It must've sucked.

Game Four
Hello Voltaire! I met him over a Cultist board! Welcome to a one card kingdom! I got perfect shuffle luck, split the Ruins 9-8-3, picked up two Counterfeits and won a joke of a game.

But it wasn't that simple. If Laura is on the forum, she should read this too. There was a woman playing with us who ignored Cultist named Laura. But she was very...strange. All the cards had to be facing the same way! She sorted all the piles, then got poor ADK to sort the Ruins. No offense Laura, but I am slightly scarred.

I ended up with a shocking 16 points, enough to keep me alive. I watched a brutal five player game, then the semis started.

Game One
The kingdom was Doctor, Oracle, Nobles and Market Square. I think that was it. There was also Lost Arts and Pathfinding.
Voltaire missed the 4/3 Doctor opening and was DOI. My opponent got his Golds first, and that was that. He only bought Pathfinding, which he put on Market Square. I put both my events on Oracle, which didn't feel super.

Game Two
Oh, boy. It was me, Shark Bait (his real name is Bruce, that's awesome.) and my bitter adversary, Iguanaiguana. It was a dramatic showdown between ole Bruce and Iguanaiguana. They built Prince engines with Necro and Spy for Prince food. Watchtower was draw for Bruce, Iguanaiguana stuck with Hunting Grounds. I cowered on my side of the table and played Hunting Grounds BM. It was so good. Borrow is a very interesting card. I hate Ghost Shop even more, even with a Lookout. When Shark Bait lost and Iguanaiguana won, they eliminated each other. That was amazing news for me.
I would like to point out that Iguanaiguana's neck is very long and Shark Bait has an amazing mustache.

Game Three
Ah yes, the best game I ever playef. Scrying Pool, Trader, Save, Scouting Party, Cultist, Familiar, Vineyards, Ambassador, Pirate Ship, Procession, Silk Road, Pillage, the works. I could go on and on about this board, but I already did that earlier in this thread. I'm glad liopoli didn't take the game personally though, he's a cool guy. I feel like this board was the best one. I would love to have more discussion about it.


Onto the finals!
It came down to this: Adam (his body was ready), me (an underdeveloped 13 year old), and Sam Dave Ben.
Fun board. Upgrade ruined it! I wanted to do the Peasent line, Adam wanted to three pile. Ben wanted to buy the shiny action cards! It was a depressing board. 10/10 would not recommond. Adam won with his impressive 55 points (he obviously did not get 55 points, he got 3).

Now it's midnight
Ben and I are still tied at 0-0. He was ready to split the second and third place prize (store credit). I was not. Ben's wife and my mom, however, were totally ready to call it quits. So what do you do? Well, of course you make Ben feel bad about not being able to beat a 13 year old.

Our tiebreaker
Disclaimer: I am not trying to offend Elestan.
BUT WHAT AN AWFUL BOARD!!! There was a nice Border Village/Chapel/Bridge/Coucil Room engine. Ben went for it. What did I do? I did stupid Ironworks/Gardens! Ben helped me three pile the Market Squares, I had support with Travelling Fair, and I won. The game sucked though. Apparently it's the same board (with one modification) every year.

So, people like me in real life.
I don't know if people want me sharing this, but I am Facebook friends with several of the people who were there, and I am still searching for a few.

It was an awesome event. Totally worth the drive that I slept through.
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Elestan

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Our tiebreaker
Disclaimer: I am not trying to offend Elestan.
BUT WHAT AN AWFUL BOARD!!! There was a nice Border Village/Chapel/Bridge/Coucil Room engine. Ben went for it. What did I do? I did stupid Ironworks/Gardens! Ben helped me three pile the Market Squares, I had support with Travelling Fair, and I won. The game sucked though. Apparently it's the same board (with one modification) every year.

Is there an engine that will beat IW-G on this board?  Anybody want to try to simulate it?

EDIT:  The board is:
Quote
T: Chapel, Stonemason, Market Square, Bridge, Gardens, Ironworks , Talisman, Council Room, Jester, Border Village, Traveling Fair, Ball

The primary purpose of this kingdom is to produce an extremely short game, so that I don't keep everyone standing around waiting for the tiebreaker to finish.  Two-player games of it take about five minutes, and the five-player game took about 15.

I'll probably have to mix it up some for next year...it's been publicized enough here that the f.ds people would have an unfair advantage if I use it again.

Quote
It was an awesome event. Totally worth the drive that I slept through.

Thanks!  I hope your mom still takes you next year, even knowing that it'll be a late night.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 10:16:13 am by Elestan »
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Voltaire

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Also thanks to Voltaire for playing one league match with me really late.  I would have stayed and played more, but I didn't want to keep people up who I depended on to get a ride home.

I'll definitely see some of you in Cincinnati on 1/30/16, I really need some Dominion redemption after that lousy showing.

#teamD2

The Thief/Alms/Gardens game was my favorite board (it was my first game of the tourney). It's got great rock/paper/scissors. One opponent went Thief, myself and another went Hunting Party and then I was getting outclassed in Hunting Party and destined to get third. So I switched to Thief to play for second, and that destroyed the Hunting Party player (no money left!) and I actually probably could have won if I'd not misplayed the middle stages.

Switching strategies in a Dominion game, when does that ever work? I actually kinda like three-player after this weekend. I always liked it casually, but this showed me that three-player can thrill competitively.

Also I hate that Cultist board I played with RR. Ugh. (He's better, no doubt though. You played well)

Second-favorite board was the Fortress/Develop/Wishing Well/Forge/Artificer. I think I spent $8 on a Province once, but ended with I believe 6 in my deck.
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No offense AHoppy, but you and this board did not get along. He went for Horn with space for one terminal. He got too fancy, and I think he was a tad frustrated.
I like being fancy. But it hardly ever is the right thing to do... I think I was inspired by Adam's talks of Horn during the advanced session and wanted to prove to myself I could use it. Alas, I could not.

AdamH

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There was a woman playing with us who ignored Cultist named Laura. But she was very...strange. All the cards had to be facing the same way! She sorted all the piles, then got poor ADK to sort the Ruins. No offense Laura, but I am slightly scarred.

All of my cards have to be facing the same way too, the way I discard, shuffle, and draw naturdally makes this happen but I had to re-learn those habits that way. One of my passions, along with playing board games, is putting board games away. You should see my board game bag, notably my Agricola or TTA sets. Putting my games away takes much longer than taking them out and is very comforting to me.

Our tiebreaker
Disclaimer: I am not trying to offend Elestan.
BUT WHAT AN AWFUL BOARD!!! There was a nice Border Village/Chapel/Bridge/Coucil Room engine. Ben went for it. What did I do? I did stupid Ironworks/Gardens! Ben helped me three pile the Market Squares, I had support with Travelling Fair, and I won. The game sucked though. Apparently it's the same board (with one modification) every year.

Is there an engine that will beat IW-G on this board?  Anybody want to try to simulate it?

The game will be short, yes. OTOH, I'm pretty convinced that IW/Gardens is best here because the engine is made weak. The only village is Border Village and the only non-terminals you can pick up with it help your opponent empty piles, so building the engine is pretty rough. Throne Room makes it pretty explosive but then it would be really good and now you've got this engine with Bridge, huge draw, and mid-turn gains so your game takes forever.

The more I think about it, the harder it is to make a kingdom that is over quickly but is a good test of skill because those things a fundamentally at odds. I may be able to think of some things that are quick and not awful at testing skill, like having a whole bunch of cards like Governor, Lost City, City, Council Room, Embassy, etc. that help your opponents?
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Prelims:
1:  Poor House, Vagrant, Tunnel, Wishing Well, Procession, Counterfeit, Cultist, Ghost Ship, Library, Adventurer, Trade

What do you do with Ghost Ship and Cultist when you can stack a 5/2 start.  Open Counterfeit and play Library/BM.  Seriously, with Vagrant support and Trade[not "er"] you can easily swap 2 ruins for 2 Silvers almost at will.  Then end-game when you would rather get green you just skip any Ruins with Library.  Interesting BM counter to a typical Cultist slog.

2:  Gear, Duplicate, Horse Traders, Militia, Rats, Transmogrify, Apprentice, Saboteur, Raze, University, Ball

Apprentice/Rats stands out easily for the engine.  University comes for gaining Fodder.  Duplicate was exceptionally useful for rapidly getting the economy up to double Province.  Probably could have used Transmogrify better here, lack of Adventures experience just made me not aware of how useful it could be.  Gear was incredible for smoothing draws.

6:  (No 5/2), Doctor, Wishing Well, Develop, Fortress, Artificer, Harvest, Haunted Woods, Highway, Merchant Guild, Forge, Traveling Fair, Expedition,

Develop/Fortress shenanigans with Highway and Merchant Guild for endgame payload.  This is a tough engine to play optimally.  The draw is unreliable and quite poor.  I played this part quite poorly.  I was able to line up the Fortress/Develop combo to then use Wishing Well with a guaranteed hit but that was not enough to be consistent.  I needed a couple of Haunted Woods but for some reason I never got them.  Time ended on this one and I barely had the lead.

7:  Forager, Gardens, Jack of all Trades, Mining Village, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Counterfeit, Rogue, Royal Seal, Storyteller

Favorite set of the Tourney for me I think.  Forage/Jack opening leading into a Storyteller draw engine.  Counterfeit is fantastic with Storytell and easily allows Treasure Maps to hit.  The one thing I did not do but should have is gotten a Rogue so that I could play Storyteller, play Counterfeit to play Gold and then play Rogue to gain the Gold back. 

Semis:
A:  Ambassador, Silk Road, Trader, Pirate Ship, Procession, Cultist, Pillage, Vineyard, Scrying Pool, Familiar, Save, Scouting Party

B:  Shelters, Lookout, Smugglers, Watchtower, Spy, Ghost Ship, Tribute, Bridge Troll, Rogue, Hunting Grounds, Prince, Mission, Borrow

C:  (No 5/2), Develop, Doctor, Market Square, Oracle, Armory, Bridge, Distant Lands, Band of Misfits, Nobles, Prince, Lost Arts, Pathfinding


A combination of bad luck and bad play hit me hard in the semis.  Things went downhill for my set B engine when my Watchtower never lined up with my Necro.  I had numerous dud mid-game turns that sent me downhill.  I never really put things together here.

Final:  Platinum/Colony, Shelters, Peasant (bane), Hermit, Scheme, Watchtower, Fortress, Transmogrify, Young Witch, Band of Misfits, Graverobber, Royal Carriage, Upgrade, Ferry, Summon

As always, I look forward to reading everyone's posts about how they analyzed the boards, what they tried, and whether it worked as they expected.  If anyone is inclined to try streaming matches with these sets, please let me know!  I love trying to get the rock/paper/scissors effect in a 3-player Kingdom, and I was glad to see that some of these boards successfully pulled it off.

For those of you interested in attending next year, U-Con 2016 will be the weekend of November 12.  I hope to see you all back then!

It was fun but tiring to watch the Finals.  If I had made it in I would have been beat.  It was a long day and I was already tired.  I totally would have missed a lot of the Adventures reactions in that last set.  Perhaps the saddest part of the day was that I was never put on a board with the Travelers. 

I'll be back next year and I will be ready to win.  I'll put in a little Rocky Balboa pre tourney training session to get me ready.  ;)

It was awesome to meet everyone.  Maybe we can do a little AA F.DS dominion hangout sometime.  I think there are a fair number of people in the area.  Stay tuned, maybe I'll get something together to cure the Michigan January/February winter blues.  :D
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Our tiebreaker
Disclaimer: I am not trying to offend Elestan.
BUT WHAT AN AWFUL BOARD!!! There was a nice Border Village/Chapel/Bridge/Coucil Room engine. Ben went for it. What did I do? I did stupid Ironworks/Gardens! Ben helped me three pile the Market Squares, I had support with Travelling Fair, and I won. The game sucked though. Apparently it's the same board (with one modification) every year.

Is there an engine that will beat IW-G on this board?  Anybody want to try to simulate it?

The primary purpose of that kingdom is to produce an extremely short game, so that I don't keep everyone standing around waiting for the tiebreaker to finish.  Two-player games of it take about five minutes, and the five-player game took about 15.

I'll probably have to mix it up some for next year...it's been publicized enough here that the f.ds people would have an unfair advantage if I use it again.

Quote
It was an awesome event. Totally worth the drive that I slept through.

Thanks!  I hope your mom still takes you next year, even knowing that it'll be a late night.

I think I've played the tiebreaker board or something similar to it before in a different context. You can make a Bridge engine that will pile the game out and grab enough Provinces to outpace a pure Ironworks / Gardens strategy with a bit of luck. A few BV / CR pickups, like four Bridges (and is there Throne Room involved?) plus some money from Market Square / Chapel and you can cut the Gardens player off before their deck is big enough to compete, like turn 11 or 12.
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Our tiebreaker
Disclaimer: I am not trying to offend Elestan.
BUT WHAT AN AWFUL BOARD!!! There was a nice Border Village/Chapel/Bridge/Coucil Room engine. Ben went for it. What did I do? I did stupid Ironworks/Gardens! Ben helped me three pile the Market Squares, I had support with Travelling Fair, and I won. The game sucked though. Apparently it's the same board (with one modification) every year.

Is there an engine that will beat IW-G on this board?  Anybody want to try to simulate it?

The primary purpose of that kingdom is to produce an extremely short game, so that I don't keep everyone standing around waiting for the tiebreaker to finish.  Two-player games of it take about five minutes, and the five-player game took about 15.

I'll probably have to mix it up some for next year...it's been publicized enough here that the f.ds people would have an unfair advantage if I use it again.

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It was an awesome event. Totally worth the drive that I slept through.

Thanks!  I hope your mom still takes you next year, even knowing that it'll be a late night.

I think I've played the tiebreaker board or something similar to it before in a different context. You can make a Bridge engine that will pile the game out and grab enough Provinces to outpace a pure Ironworks / Gardens strategy with a bit of luck. A few BV / CR pickups, like four Bridges (and is there Throne Room involved?) plus some money from Market Square / Chapel and you can cut the Gardens player off before their deck is big enough to compete, like turn 11 or 12.

All I know is that in five player, the optimal strategy is to buy a jester and gain four cards per turn, then ball it up for double gardens for the rest of the game.

That and a little splash of talisman/travelling fair to get some 6-8 copper turns won me the 5 player version of this game.

I had 47 cards in what I want to say was like 12 turns.
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Elestan

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T: Chapel, Stonemason, Market Square, Bridge, Gardens, Ironworks , Talisman, Council Room, Jester, Border Village, Traveling Fair, Ball

I'll confess, I did not have a 5-player game in mind when designing this kingdom, but it's what I had.  My other options would have been to decide randomly (which I don't think anyone would have found satisfying), playing a random or untested kingdom 5-player (which would have taken way too much time), or doing some kind of multi-round tiebreaker (again, too much time).

All I know is that in five player, the optimal strategy is to buy a jester and gain four cards per turn, then ball it up for double gardens for the rest of the game.

That and a little splash of talisman/travelling fair to get some 6-8 copper turns won me the 5 player version of this game.

...but if four players are going Gardens, they're going to be splitting the pot.  Does that open up room for another strategy?
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7:  Forager, Gardens, Jack of all Trades, Mining Village, Throne Room, Treasure Map, Counterfeit, Rogue, Royal Seal, Storyteller

Favorite set of the Tourney for me I think.  Forage/Jack opening leading into a Storyteller draw engine.  Counterfeit is fantastic with Storytell and easily allows Treasure Maps to hit.  The one thing I did not do but should have is gotten a Rogue so that I could play Storyteller, play Counterfeit to play Gold and then play Rogue to gain the Gold back.

That's good, but there's more that can be done on this board.  I didn't see anyone play it to its full potential (including me, when Adam and I did a for fun game afterward - I was too fried to remember how to put it together).  :-)

It was awesome to meet everyone.  Maybe we can do a little AA F.DS dominion hangout sometime.  I think there are a fair number of people in the area.  Stay tuned, maybe I'll get something together to cure the Michigan January/February winter blues.  :D

Count me in!  I also have the week between Christmas and New Years' off, if there's interest around that time. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 10:49:09 am by Elestan »
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