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Author Topic: my cards  (Read 47541 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #100 on: October 15, 2015, 09:37:21 am »
+1


Just so you know, there isn't a single person who agrees with you so far. You're completely losing this argument, just like you are being a total jerk. Sorry we didn't give your cards lots of praise, your highness.

Pretty sure Xerxes agreed with him. Well, sort of anyway. He agreed that it's ok to not worry about all the rules interactions; I guess no one agrees that there aren't any unclear rules interactions.

Anyway, I don't think this sort of comment is constructive. Tristan is a new member here. I'll agree some of his comments have come across as hostile, but it's not like he seems like a troll or something. He just didn't know how to respond to getting unexpected responses to his posts. I think we all should try to be a bit more welcoming.

On that note, welcome tristan! I hope that your experience in this thread doesn't turn you off from our board. I've found it to be one of the more friendly places on the internet, though perhaps that's not saying much!
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2015, 09:52:34 am »
0

Please, completely unfamiliar fan card creator, forgive me talKing.
Oh, an argument from authority. Love it when people disqualify themselves so quickly with unscientific nonsense. Guess you must be the well reknown king of fan cards creators.  ;D

It's not an argument from authority. It's me subtly implying that i think you are the same guy who behaved like a jerk before in the King-thread, and who later created a new account to discuss his cards untainted from past misdeeds. Apparently i was too subtle.

I mean, really? Ignoring valid critizism? Telling us how real game designers would look down on us? How "pissed off" we are because of your cleverness? I just plain refuse to believe that fds was unlucky enough to have been struck twice with the curse of an insufferably arrogant individual like you joining the forums in such a short time.

Back then i was willing to let it slide and give you another chance, but if you think you can just keep switching usernames over and over so you can be a twit again every time, i'm not playing along with your silly little game.

If this is correct then obviously my other post is void. But how do you know?
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Asper

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Re: my cards
« Reply #102 on: October 15, 2015, 11:43:34 am »
0

Please, completely unfamiliar fan card creator, forgive me talKing.
Oh, an argument from authority. Love it when people disqualify themselves so quickly with unscientific nonsense. Guess you must be the well reknown king of fan cards creators.  ;D

It's not an argument from authority. It's me subtly implying that i think you are the same guy who behaved like a jerk before in the King-thread, and who later created a new account to discuss his cards untainted from past misdeeds. Apparently i was too subtle.

I mean, really? Ignoring valid critizism? Telling us how real game designers would look down on us? How "pissed off" we are because of your cleverness? I just plain refuse to believe that fds was unlucky enough to have been struck twice with the curse of an insufferably arrogant individual like you joining the forums in such a short time.

Back then i was willing to let it slide and give you another chance, but if you think you can just keep switching usernames over and over so you can be a twit again every time, i'm not playing along with your silly little game.

If this is correct then obviously my other post is void. But how do you know?

I don't. What i know is that:
  • horatio83 did create an alternate username before. He accidentally logged in as the old one when posting about "his" cards in this thread. He erased his post after being asked about it, but it's still in gkrieg13's quote.
  • Tristan behaves the same as horatio83. It's a lot of little things, like using "pissed off" as a last resort to disqualify critics. How he claims other's concerns are secondary. How he arrogantly states that critics simply lack expertise to even say anything about his ideas. But the most blatant point would be how he tries to make a point by stating what he thinks "real game designers" would think of us, and that they'd share his opinion.

So, no i don't know, as i can't prove it. I just think it's awfully unlikely i'm wrong.
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eHalcyon

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Re: my cards
« Reply #103 on: October 15, 2015, 12:30:46 pm »
0

I actually thought it might be horatio as well, because they both brought up the idea of convexity.  I've never seen anyone else talk about it wrt Dominion cards.  But tristan was talking about non-convexity of effects(?) while horatio went on about convexity of costs, so not quite the same.  Without being able to know for sure, I ignored it.

This thread on its own is plenty mind-boggling.  Criticising someone of argument from authority when he was basically doing the same thing with the "you're all bad at science and math" comments... the hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness is astounding.
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gkrieg13

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Re: my cards
« Reply #104 on: October 15, 2015, 12:34:10 pm »
+1

Ya I was pretty sure who it was at the beginning of the thread, but now I agree with Asper and am sure it's gotta be horatio.
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popsofctown

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Re: my cards
« Reply #105 on: October 15, 2015, 12:46:00 pm »
0

I don't know who this horatio guy is, but if I claim to be him do I have a shot at getting banned?
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Awaclus

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Re: my cards
« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2015, 12:50:38 pm »
0

I don't know who this horatio guy is, but if I claim to be him do I have a shot at getting banned?

It's probably ErrinF.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: my cards
« Reply #107 on: October 15, 2015, 01:01:30 pm »
0

\
If someone wants to ignore a single design standard, then fine. Tristan appears to be fine with cards without a clear consistent application of the rules. If he's fine with that weakness we can talk about the other traits of the card. Don't criticize things for not being what they weren't trying to be.
Can you tell me where the design standard "no negative virtual coins" is actually written or implied? Thanks.

All cards that reduce the price of cards make sure they can't go negative; all cards that use the -$1 token make sure people can't go into negative money; Poor House, the only card to give negative coins, makes sure they can't go below 0; negative numbers are not seen on any card.

It's written down, but not in text, but in the very game itself.
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Asper

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Re: my cards
« Reply #108 on: October 15, 2015, 01:03:54 pm »
0

I don't know who this horatio guy is, but if I claim to be him do I have a shot at getting banned?

It's probably ErrinF.

Is that the "Bomb"-guy? Although it was before my time, his tale sounded rather familiar.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: my cards
« Reply #109 on: October 15, 2015, 01:21:07 pm »
+1

I kind of sympathize with people creating alt-accounts - I was really tempted to do it once when everyone in a forum was semi-blatantly bullying me (in a way that would be obvious to an 3rd party - like I want to mod a Mafia game, literally none joins; there's a loophole in the rules to my setup, I'm almost banned (saved by the site mod) when I try to enforce it the way it was obviously intended; games I'm in have the "random" numbers fudged against me (like I roll a d20 15 times in a row, they're all 1s)).

This isn't that germane to the current conversation, but I definitely think alt-accounts are not as immoral as most people on here think they are. It can be a way to check if there's prejudice or not. (If this is the same person, it definitely proves the "problem" is on his side - the quality of the cards, not the username, matters to us)

PPE: The concept of an alt-treasure that destroys itself is actually a really good concept. I tried to revamp his cards, but the only one that really worked out was Bomb, changed from "Trash a card in your hand and this" to "+2 Cards; Trash any number of cards in your hand and this."
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #110 on: October 15, 2015, 01:37:21 pm »
+1

I don't know who this horatio guy is, but if I claim to be him do I have a shot at getting banned?

It's probably ErrinF.

Is that the "Bomb"-guy? Although it was before my time, his tale sounded rather familiar.

The Bomb thing was just over a year ago. And yes, it was ErrinF.
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Asper

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Re: my cards
« Reply #111 on: October 15, 2015, 02:05:26 pm »
+2

I don't know who this horatio guy is, but if I claim to be him do I have a shot at getting banned?

It's probably ErrinF.

Is that the "Bomb"-guy? Although it was before my time, his tale sounded rather familiar.

The Bomb thing was just over a year ago. And yes, it was ErrinF.

Huh, then i just totally missed that. I checked out the thread once to see what the talk was about, but never looked at the date.

I kind of sympathize with people creating alt-accounts - I was really tempted to do it once when everyone in a forum was semi-blatantly bullying me (in a way that would be obvious to an 3rd party - like I want to mod a Mafia game, literally none joins; there's a loophole in the rules to my setup, I'm almost banned (saved by the site mod) when I try to enforce it the way it was obviously intended; games I'm in have the "random" numbers fudged against me (like I roll a d20 15 times in a row, they're all 1s)).

This isn't that germane to the current conversation, but I definitely think alt-accounts are not as immoral as most people on here think they are. It can be a way to check if there's prejudice or not. (If this is the same person, it definitely proves the "problem" is on his side - the quality of the cards, not the username, matters to us)

PPE: The concept of an alt-treasure that destroys itself is actually a really good concept. I tried to revamp his cards, but the only one that really worked out was Bomb, changed from "Trash a card in your hand and this" to "+2 Cards; Trash any number of cards in your hand and this."

I do agree there's nothing wrong with it generally. If you don't feel good anymore, i tend to say you should be allowed to make a cut and start anew.

Sadly, by now it seems that horatio83/bobanillic/Tristan/ErrinF is intentionally abusing this feature to insult people without having to face the consequences. That's why i called him out on it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 02:06:39 pm by Asper »
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eHalcyon

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Re: my cards
« Reply #112 on: October 15, 2015, 03:35:45 pm »
0

I don't think there's any proof though?  And without proof, the speculation is irrelevant and unfair as far as I'm concerned.
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popsofctown

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Re: my cards
« Reply #113 on: October 15, 2015, 03:43:09 pm »
+1

I dunno man, I've heard the word convex like 9 times in my life and it's an internet forum not a court of law.
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heron

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Re: my cards
« Reply #114 on: October 15, 2015, 04:01:12 pm »
0

Well I don't think tristan sounds like ErrinF really at all.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: my cards
« Reply #115 on: October 15, 2015, 04:03:04 pm »
+1

Is it becoming a new sort of forum game to see how quickly we as a community can correctly guess that a new person bringing in fan cards to the forum is actually just Horatio83 again? Because if it is, I'm all in. Sounds fun and I can't wait for the next account.

This account is found out Horatio. Better try again when you come up with some new fan cards 8)
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popsofctown

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Re: my cards
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2015, 04:08:59 pm »
0

Well I don't think tristan sounds like ErrinF really at all.
That's because I am ErrinF
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Awaclus

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Re: my cards
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2015, 04:10:41 pm »
0

Well I don't think tristan sounds like ErrinF really at all.
That's because I am ErrinF

That's because we're all Wandering Winder.
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SheCanSayNo

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Re: my cards
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2015, 04:11:55 pm »
+3

Guys, opening alt accounts is awesome! Everybody should do it! Accountability is for suckers!
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Awaclus

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Re: my cards
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2015, 04:14:31 pm »
0

Guys, opening alt accounts is awesome! Everybody should do it! Accountability is for suckers!

Since when have you had a Magpie avatar?
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SheCanSayNo

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Re: my cards
« Reply #120 on: October 15, 2015, 04:16:22 pm »
0

Guys, opening alt accounts is awesome! Everybody should do it! Accountability is for suckers!

Since when have you had a Magpie avatar?

It's my divine birthright!
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gkrieg13

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Re: my cards
« Reply #121 on: October 15, 2015, 04:18:45 pm »
+1

Guys, opening alt accounts is awesome! Everybody should do it! Accountability is for suckers!

How do you already have 46 respect?
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Awaclus

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Re: my cards
« Reply #122 on: October 15, 2015, 04:25:23 pm »
+2

Guys, opening alt accounts is awesome! Everybody should do it! Accountability is for suckers!

How do you already have 46 respect?

Mostly because of this brilliant post:

LOL ENGINES SUCK!
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #123 on: October 16, 2015, 05:56:26 am »
0

All cards that reduce the price of cards make sure they can't go negative; all cards that use the -$1 token make sure people can't go into negative money; Poor House, the only card to give negative coins, makes sure they can't go below 0; negative numbers are not seen on any card.
Of course prices cannot be negative. But I fail to see why negative coins should be a problem.
Asper made the point that people should always be able to buy Copper so one could easily FAQ Armada and add the little rule that if Armada leads to a total sum which is negative it is automatically put to 0 at the beginning of your Buy phase.
The idea of the card is after all not to prevent people from buying Copper but a simple trade-off between cash and cards and the resulting incentive to either buy the card fairly lately (when you have good enough cards that are able to compensate for -3) or to forsake buying expensive cards for a few turns and use an engine with spammers and gain cards and so on.


On that note, welcome tristan! I hope that your experience in this thread doesn't turn you off from our board. I've found it to be one of the more friendly places on the internet, though perhaps that's not saying much!
Thanks. I am well aware that I was not the friendliest guy in this thread but I do not think that it warranted the level of hostility leveled against me so I am definitely put off by this place.
I will probably still check in from time to time to see if there are some analytical posts that help me to improve my cards (e.g. EHalcyon helped me to understand cantrip trashers better) but after all the ad hominems in here I will most likely merely discuss them with the folks in my playing group.
Thanks again for your kind words.
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #124 on: October 16, 2015, 06:04:15 am »
0

As a general game design note, negative numbers are way harder for the average person to consistently correctly use than you would expect. It's one of the hurdles I personally had to overcome, understanding that. It's easy to forget that, by designing for the "average" person, that you're already excluding half of the population, and so you have to design for simpler than the "average" person to cast a wider net.
One the one hand you are right, Dominion is a family game so its target group should include people who have issues with 6th grade maths. But on the other hand I seriouly doubt that I could not explain this card to my 11 year old cousin who is playing Dominion. Something like "it is just a negative Gold" or "you gotta add together all your coins as usual but then you gotta subtract Armada's 3 from them" is really not that complicated.

There are definitely far more compley cards out there. Possession is fairly simple rule-wise but it is definitely a bit of a mind-twister to think through it.
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