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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2015, 01:43:00 am »
+1

Given how you refuse to seriously consider the very constructive input everybody has given about your Upgrade variant, I don't know if you'd actually appreciate more feedback.  :-\
Discussion 101: just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't imply that he did not think about your arguments.  ::)

For practical reasons, i.e. concerning my card, this theoretical discussiont doesn't matter much as the price will be fixed at 5 anyway and all I'll do is twiddle with the bonus, respectively add a malus if you guys turn out to be right concerning how strong the card is.

PM: On a sidenote, do you have a link to the Lab+discard card you mentioned? I went through the Outtakes and did not seem to find it.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 01:50:01 am by tristan »
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eHalcyon

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Re: my cards
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2015, 02:43:39 am »
0

Given how you refuse to seriously consider the very constructive input everybody has given about your Upgrade variant, I don't know if you'd actually appreciate more feedback.  :-\
Discussion 101: just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't imply that he did not think about your arguments.  ::)

No, but when you say things like this:

Without intending to be rude, the argument brought forth that a mandatory cantrip trasher is an superstrong 4 or even a 5 is utterly ridiculous given that it would be strictly inferior to Junk Dealer and Upgrade which are also priced at 5.

and brush off a thorough comparison and explanation without so much as a quote, it really seems like you don't want to consider any less-than-positive feedback.

For practical reasons, i.e. concerning my card, this theoretical discussiont doesn't matter much as the price will be fixed at 5 anyway and all I'll do is twiddle with the bonus, respectively add a malus if you guys turn out to be right concerning how strong the card is.

Upgrade and Junk Dealer are mandatory trashing with a bonus, both very strong $5s.  Your set-aside card without the +$ option is already mandatory trashing with a bonus and it would be a very strong $5, just like Junk Dealer and Upgrade.  Its ability to eliminate late-game choking might even push it above.

As it is, the +$ option is just needless extra power and complexity.  If you drop that, then I think it would be great to start testing at $5.  And from there, I would expect that it would either prove excellent at that price or need a cost increase, given its huge mid-game utility in stashing away Provinces.  That, or a drop down in price to $2 a la Chapel.

PM: On a sidenote, do you have a link to the Lab+discard card you mentioned? I went through the Outtakes and did not seem to find it.

It's mentioned in the secret history of Hinterlands, specifically concerning Inn, and mentioned again in passing in the secret history of Dark Ages, as an outtake.

I vaguely remember seeing Donald write about it as an example of a card that can't exist at any price point (being too strong for $4 but almost strictly inferior to Lab), but I can't find it now.  It may have just been a comment in some regular discussion thread.
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2015, 08:18:01 am »
0

As it is, the +$ option is just needless extra power and complexity.  If you drop that, then I think it would be great to start testing at $5.  And from there, I would expect that it would either prove excellent at that price or need a cost increase, given its huge mid-game utility in stashing away Provinces.  That, or a drop down in price to $2 a la Chapel.
During playtesting I first want it to stay in for thematic reasons as I named my card Granary. Of course an Action card that can once during the game provide 2-6 Gold (2 if you only set aside Estates and Coppers, 6 if you also set aside Curses, Duchies, Provinces and another Victory card or a weak Action card) is strong but I like that it incentives players to set aside a variety of cards and that it makes them become sensitive to shuffle-timing issues (you want to use this quasi one-shot effect before the game ends and before you reshuffle and draw a lot of the previously set aside cards).

If the card is too strong I will drop this very bonus or add a malus.


Quote
It's mentioned in the secret history of Hinterlands, specifically concerning Inn, and mentioned again in passing in the secret history of Dark Ages, as an outtake.

I vaguely remember seeing Donald write about it as an example of a card that can't exist at any price point (being too strong for $4 but almost strictly inferior to Lab), but I can't find it now.  It may have just been a comment in some regular discussion thread.
Thanks. Even if Donald didn't say it it is definitely correct that such a card would be too weak fpr 5 and too strong for 4.
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2015, 08:22:42 am »
0

- Melee Island - Action - Attack

Every other player discards a Treasure card or reveals a hand with no Treasure cards and takes his - Token.
Use the effects of one of the discarded Treasure cards at the beginning of your Buy phase or gain a Coin token.


I changed Melee Island as the previous Curser version was too strong. Opening with two Melee Islands might still be too abusive, especially with 3 and 4 players, but as always only playtesting will reveal this.
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eHalcyon

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Re: my cards
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2015, 01:22:07 pm »
+1

Thanks. Even if Donald didn't say it it is definitely correct that such a card would be too weak fpr 5 and too strong for 4.

No, we can't say for sure that it's too weak for $5.  It might be perfectly balanced at $5, though we'd need to test it to be sure.  The point is that it shouldn't cost $5 because Lab exists.
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2015, 02:55:24 am »
0

While I totally agree with you that there shouldn't exist a strictly inferior card at an identical price  I'd also like to point out that the practical chances of drawing Lab and this hypothetical Lab variant are, if you play with all expansions, around 0.002-0.003.
I also think that while Trade Route is not strictle inferior to Forager it is hard to imagine an actual deck in which anybody would buy Trade Route instead of Forager.
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eHalcyon

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Re: my cards
« Reply #56 on: October 12, 2015, 11:48:11 pm »
0

While I totally agree with you that there shouldn't exist a strictly inferior card at an identical price  I'd also like to point out that the practical chances of drawing Lab and this hypothetical Lab variant are, if you play with all expansions, around 0.002-0.003.
I also think that while Trade Route is not strictle inferior to Forager it is hard to imagine an actual deck in which anybody would buy Trade Route instead of Forager.

Some people don't play with all expansions, including some people who own all expansions (e.g. IIRC, Donald and LastFootnote both like to choose two random expansions and taking 5 cards from each).

Alt VP gets bought, making Trade Route a big coin payload.  It happens.
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Asper

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Re: my cards
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2015, 04:39:17 am »
0

While I totally agree with you that there shouldn't exist a strictly inferior card at an identical price  I'd also like to point out that the practical chances of drawing Lab and this hypothetical Lab variant are, if you play with all expansions, around 0.002-0.003.
I also think that while Trade Route is not strictle inferior to Forager it is hard to imagine an actual deck in which anybody would buy Trade Route instead of Forager.

Some people don't play with all expansions, including some people who own all expansions (e.g. IIRC, Donald and LastFootnote both like to choose two random expansions and taking 5 cards from each).

Alt VP gets bought, making Trade Route a big coin payload.  It happens.

Some things that help Trade Route:
Shelters and no $2 kingdom card (Might as well buy an Estate)
VP cards in general (some more than others - maybe Island or Distant Lands?)
A lot of nonterminals (so your last action is either TR or just left unspent)

tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2015, 04:56:39 am »
0

I do not think that Trade Route is a bad card. I just find it hard to imagine a LIKELY (of course anybody can come up with an extreme deck whioch contains ample of Victory cards) concrete deck with Trade Route and Forager in which anybody would buy the former instead of the latter.

So if there are two official cards which are very similar and one is virtually always inferior to the other I do not think that there would be a practical problem (unless one plays, like EHalcyon said, with a lot of cards from one set) with "discard a Card, +2 Cards, +1 Action" at 4$ or "+2 Cards, +1 Action, discard a Card" at 5.
Obviously it would still violate a fairly obvious design principle but my point is that there are ample of official cards which are weak/strong at their price.



- Granary - Action

+1 Action
Set aside a card from your hand.
OR
Gain for each differently named set aside card. Discard all set aside cards.


I named and changed Granary. The easiest way would have been to get rid of the bonus but I want it to remain for thematic reasons. I also like Intrigue and cards which give you options.
Now instead of being a bit too strong as before the card might be a bit too weak ... but then again the bonus is probably stronger than Harvest (you use the second option late in the game you you have already set aside Coppers, Estates and Provinces plus curses or another Victory card: so we have a rough average of 4, respectively in Shelter games 6).
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 05:05:13 am by tristan »
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2015, 06:34:44 am »
0

- Armada - Action

+5 Cards
-


I wanted to do a card with negative virtual coins and a terminal draw was the obvious choice. This might be too strong so the two other options I consider is to price it at 5 or to change the coins to -4.
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eHalcyon

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Re: my cards
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2015, 12:10:57 pm »
0

Shelters and no $2 kingdom card (Might as well buy an Estate)

Just to be clear, this is a bad idea unless you are specifically trying to bump up Trade Route.

I do not think that Trade Route is a bad card. I just find it hard to imagine a LIKELY (of course anybody can come up with an extreme deck whioch contains ample of Victory cards) concrete deck with Trade Route and Forager in which anybody would buy the former instead of the latter.

So if there are two official cards which are very similar and one is virtually always inferior to the other I do not think that there would be a practical problem (unless one plays, like EHalcyon said, with a lot of cards from one set) with "discard a Card, +2 Cards, +1 Action" at 4$ or "+2 Cards, +1 Action, discard a Card" at 5.
Obviously it would still violate a fairly obvious design principle but my point is that there are ample of official cards which are weak/strong at their price.

Trade Route is kind of a bad card, but situations where it beats out Forager aren't that extreme.  The difference is that Trade Route would most likely end up as a mid- or late-game payload card rather than an early-game trasher.

The Lab-with-discard is too strong for $4.  Donald never tested it at $5, so yes it might be fine there.  It can't exist because it violates that design principle with the existence of Lab; if you don't care about the design principle, then sure, it could very well work at $5 (pending testing).  I never said otherwise!



New Granary looks alright.  I don't think the difference between Estates and Shelters is that much.  Yes, it makes it easier to get +$2 onto a (probably) late-game play, but the main power of the card will be in the controlled stashing away of VP cards.  Native Village strategy already notes the possibility of setting aside VP cards to keep your deck clear, and that's with NV's more difficult effect that takes the top of deck sight unseen.  Granary allows the choice of cards from hand, which is a huge improvement on that front.

What do you mean by negative coins?  This isn't covered by Dominion rules so you'll need to clarify some things.  The closest example we have is Poor House, but it never goes below 0.  Do you mean for Armada to go below 0?  If not, then it is extremely easy to get around the penalty.  If so, then you'll have to explain it more clearly.  If I have -$6 when I play Poor House, do I end up with -$2, or does the Poor House text actually raise me up to $0?  How does it interact with Storyteller?
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2015, 01:29:48 pm »
0

What do you mean by negative coins?  This isn't covered by Dominion rules so you'll need to clarify some things.
In Dominion you accumulate all your money income, be it from Action or Treasure cards. Having a negative value in there doesn't really change anything. If you play e.g. Armada and later play 2 Coppers during your Buy phase you have a total of -1 (-3+1+1) so you cannot buy anything. If you had played a Peddler, an Armada and 2 Gold instead you'd have a total of 4 (+1-3+3+3) and could buy a card costing up to 4.

The former example or more specifically, willingly risking to get little to no or negative total coins, is by the way what I mainly worry about. In a deck which has trash for benefit, spammers or others stuff that doesn't make buying cards the first priority Armada could be too strong as you could draw a lot of cards, use them and happily forsake some coins and thus the purchase of an expensive card.
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2015, 01:31:52 pm »
0

What do you mean by negative coins?  This isn't covered by Dominion rules so you'll need to clarify some things.
In Dominion you accumulate all your money income, be it from Action or Treasure cards. Having a negative value in there doesn't really change anything. If you play e.g. Armada and later play 2 Coppers during your Buy phase you have a total of -1 (-3+1+1) so you cannot buy anything. If you had played a Peddler, an Armada and 2 Gold instead you'd have a total of 4 (+1-3+3+3) and could buy a card costing up to three.

This is by the way what I mainly worry about. In a deck which has trash for benefit, spammers or others stuff that doesn't make buying cards the first priority Armada could be too strong as you could draw a lot of cards, use them and happily forsake some coins and thus the purchase of an expensive card.

But the rules aren't clear about what it actually means to have a negative amount of money. If I have -$1 in my buy phase, can I buy a Copper? One one hand no, because $0 is more than $-1. On the other hand, as a general rule, people who are in debt can still afford free stuff. And then as eHalcyon said, what happens when you play Storyteller? How do you spend $-2 money, and when you do, how do you draw -2 cards?
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2015, 01:38:53 pm »
0

What do you mean by negative coins?  This isn't covered by Dominion rules so you'll need to clarify some things.
In Dominion you accumulate all your money income, be it from Action or Treasure cards. Having a negative value in there doesn't really change anything. If you play e.g. Armada and later play 2 Coppers during your Buy phase you have a total of -1 (-3+1+1) so you cannot buy anything. If you had played a Peddler, an Armada and 2 Gold instead you'd have a total of 4 (+1-3+3+3) and could buy a card costing up to three.

This is by the way what I mainly worry about. In a deck which has trash for benefit, spammers or others stuff that doesn't make buying cards the first priority Armada could be too strong as you could draw a lot of cards, use them and happily forsake some coins and thus the purchase of an expensive card.
One one hand no, because $0 is more than $-1. On the other hand, as a general rule, people who are in debt can still afford free stuff.
There are no ambiguties and negative virtual coins are actually covered by the rules:

The player may play some or all of the Treasure cards from his hand to his play area and add to their value the coins  provided by Action cards played this turn. The player may then gain any card in the Supply of equal or lesser value.

Quote
And then as eHalcyon said, what happens when you play Storyteller? How do you spend $-2 money, and when you do, how do you draw -2 cards?
You'd never play Storyteller if you had to discard cards. Sure, there is Golem and Herald but if you really have a board with Golem/Herald, Storyteller and Armada you can play it as you want to, i.e. that Storyteller translates negative coins into discarding or that you do not discard anything with Storyteller.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 01:47:17 pm by tristan »
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2015, 01:45:41 pm »
+1

What do you mean by negative coins?  This isn't covered by Dominion rules so you'll need to clarify some things.
In Dominion you accumulate all your money income, be it from Action or Treasure cards. Having a negative value in there doesn't really change anything. If you play e.g. Armada and later play 2 Coppers during your Buy phase you have a total of -1 (-3+1+1) so you cannot buy anything. If you had played a Peddler, an Armada and 2 Gold instead you'd have a total of 4 (+1-3+3+3) and could buy a card costing up to three.

This is by the way what I mainly worry about. In a deck which has trash for benefit, spammers or others stuff that doesn't make buying cards the first priority Armada could be too strong as you could draw a lot of cards, use them and happily forsake some coins and thus the purchase of an expensive card.
One one hand no, because $0 is more than $-1. On the other hand, as a general rule, people who are in debt can still afford free stuff.
-1<0. Basis maths, end of story.


Quote
And then as eHalcyon said, what happens when you play Storyteller? How do you spend $-2 money, and when you do, how do you draw -2 cards?
You'd never play Storyteller if you had to discard cards. Sure, there is Golem and Herald but if you really have a board with Golem/Herald, Storyteller and Armada you can play it as you want to, i.e. that Storyteller translates negative coins into discarding or that you do not discard anything with Storyteller.

Why would you have to discard cards? I mean, it may be comparable to think of discarding a card to be the same thing as drawing -1 cards, but that's certainly not any kind rule that exists in Dominion. Actually it would be more accurate to say you put a card on top of your deck, but that's still not anything that exists in the rules.
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2015, 01:47:25 pm »
0

The former is correct while the latter is not:

The player may play some or all of the Treasure cards from his hand to his play area and add to their value the coins  provided by Action cards played this turn. The player may then gain any card in the Supply of equal or lesser value.


Ha, I also just looked this up myself and found the exact same thing. So yes, I suppose the rulebook does have the answer for what to do in this situation. But it would still cause uncertainty due to the real-life issue of being able to take things that cost $0 no matter how much negative money you have. But I suppose a card FAQ would be sufficient for that one.
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2015, 01:49:30 pm »
0

Why would you have to discard cards? I mean, it may be comparable to think of discarding a card to be the same thing as drawing -1 cards, but that's certainly not any kind rule that exists in Dominion. Actually it would be more accurate to say you put a card on top of your deck, but that's still not anything that exists in the rules.
As I said, for all I care you can play however you want to if this rare instance of a Golem-ed or Herald-ed Storyteller in the presence of Armada occurs.
I do not worry about improbable combos and borderline rule issues but about whether the card is balanced and whether the idea of negative virtual coins is interesting in the first place.


But it would still cause uncertainty due to the real-life issue of being able to take things that cost $0 no matter how much negative money you have.
I do not understand the FAQ and uncertainty thingy as the rules are crystal clear on this. If people have a negative total and take a Copper or a Curse they are simply playing the game wrong.
If you refer to the habbit of thinking that you can always take a Copper or a Curse, well, this might be indeed a practical problem but I think that in my playing group people would be surprised or pissed off about a negative total that they would be quite aware that they could not even buy a Copper.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 01:53:44 pm by tristan »
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2015, 01:53:17 pm »
+2

Why would you have to discard cards? I mean, it may be comparable to think of discarding a card to be the same thing as drawing -1 cards, but that's certainly not any kind rule that exists in Dominion. Actually it would be more accurate to say you put a card on top of your deck, but that's still not anything that exists in the rules.
As I said, for all I care you can play however you want to if this rare instance of a Golem-ed or Herald-ed Storyteller in the presence of Armada occurs.
I do not worry about improbable combos and borderline rule issues but about whether the card is balanced and whether the idea of negative virtual coins is interesting in the first place.

You don't need Golem or Herald at all... you only need Storyteller. When designing any fan card, the actual rules of Dominion should be considered. A person is perfectly free to play Armada followed by Storyteller. It's irrelevant to the card design why the person would choose to play Storyteller. Maybe they wanted to just play a card to trigger Peddler or Horn of Plenty, maybe they wanted to reduce handsize for a draw-to-x. Maybe they simply wanted to play it; shouldn't matter. The fact is that it is a situation that requires a new game-wide rule to be created; not just a better wording on a card.

And there's not anything automatically wrong with creating a new game-wide rule. You can rule that it's impossible to "spend" negative coins, thus Storyteller wouldn't make you spend or draw anything. You could rule that you can spend negative coins, but because you can't draw negative cards, you just don't draw. Or could could rule that drawing -1 card means discarding 1 card, but that seems really weird. The point is you have to create a new rule in Dominion.
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2015, 01:54:59 pm »
0

I do not understand the FAQ and uncertainty thingy as the rules are crystal clear on this. If people have a negative total and take a Copper or a Curse they are simply playing the game wrong.

Put it this way... I have played thousands of games of Dominion, and I had to look in the actual rulebook to discover the specific wording of the requirements to buy a card. It's possible that I'm just a special case, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the average player would also not know the specific rule about that without looking in the rulebook first.
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2015, 01:59:59 pm »
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And there's not anything automatically wrong with creating a new game-wide rule. You can rule that it's impossible to "spend" negative coins, thus Storyteller wouldn't make you spend or draw anything. You could rule that you can spend negative coins, but because you can't draw negative cards, you just don't draw. Or could could rule that drawing -1 card means discarding 1 card, but that seems really weird. The point is you have to create a new rule in Dominion.
As I said, my priorities are first to first determine whether negative virtual coins for a hgue card draw is an interesting idea and worthwhile in the first place and second to then balance the card.
I do not really care about how you handle Storyteller with negative coins as I randomize all card so the chance that Storyteller and Armada appear in one game are a a few per mille. If you guys have a strong opinion on that I will role with it. My intuition is that negative coins should translate into drawing 0 cards but if somebody wants it to translate into discarding cards I see nothing wrong with that. All I see is that the latter makes Storyteller as well as Armada weaker when both are present.
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2015, 02:02:29 pm »
0

I do not understand the FAQ and uncertainty thingy as the rules are crystal clear on this. If people have a negative total and take a Copper or a Curse they are simply playing the game wrong.

Put it this way... I have played thousands of games of Dominion, and I had to look in the actual rulebook to discover the specific wording of the requirements to buy a card. It's possible that I'm just a special case, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the average player would also not know the specific rule about that without looking in the rulebook first.
I have played far less and I did not know the actual text of the ruls before I read them up ... but the principle of summing up all sources of money and then using it to buy card(s) which cost as much or less than this very total was obvious to me.

That you cannot buy a card which costs 0 if you have -3 is not something that need explaining unless, bluntly speaking, you are playing with a bunch of mathematical imbeciles who are unable to deal with negative numbers. As my gaming group does not consist of mathematical imbeciles I do not worry about them not understanding that -4<0.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:04:31 pm by tristan »
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2015, 02:07:50 pm »
0

And there's not anything automatically wrong with creating a new game-wide rule. You can rule that it's impossible to "spend" negative coins, thus Storyteller wouldn't make you spend or draw anything. You could rule that you can spend negative coins, but because you can't draw negative cards, you just don't draw. Or could could rule that drawing -1 card means discarding 1 card, but that seems really weird. The point is you have to create a new rule in Dominion.
As I said, my priorities are first to first determine whether negative virtual coins for a hgue card draw is an interesting idea and worthwhile in the first place and second to then balance the card.

This seems reasonable; I just think that you also need to have a third priority of deciding a rule on how the card will function in any possible situation.

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I do not really care about how you handle Storyteller with negative coins as I randomize all card so the chance that Storyteller and Armada appear in one game are a a few per mille.

You may do that... other people may choose to play a kingdom with Storyteller and Armada. Others may play some games with Adventures + Fan Cards.

But as an extreme/absurd example... say I made a fan card that said "+$2. If this is the third time you've played this copy of this card this turn, Frob the snatz". Then someone asks what the rules are for how to frob the snatz in case you play King's Court on the card. And I just said "I don't care how you choose to play it; in the unlikely event that it's on the board with King's Court."

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If you guys have a strong opinion on that I will role with it. My intuition is that negative coins should translate into drawing 0 cards but if somebody wants it to translate into discarding cards I see nothing wrong with that. All I see is that the latter makes Storyteller as well as Armada weaker when both are present.

I definitely think you should draw 0 cards, I'm just not sure if you should have $0 money at the end of it, or still have your $-1. Because I'm not sure if it's possible to "spend $-1 money". So you either fail to spend it, and thus draw 0 cards, or you do spend it, and still draw 0 cards because you can't draw negative. I think the discarding option makes no sense, just because one thing increases your handsize and the other decreases your handsize doesn't mean that they're the same thing. As mentioned, putting a card back on top of your deck would be more similar to negative drawing than discarding would be, but even then they are simply 2 completely different things; neither is just a negative version of the other.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:16:15 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: my cards
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2015, 02:09:28 pm »
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I do not understand the FAQ and uncertainty thingy as the rules are crystal clear on this. If people have a negative total and take a Copper or a Curse they are simply playing the game wrong.

Put it this way... I have played thousands of games of Dominion, and I had to look in the actual rulebook to discover the specific wording of the requirements to buy a card. It's possible that I'm just a special case, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the average player would also not know the specific rule about that without looking in the rulebook first.
I have played far less and I did not know the actual text of the ruls before I read them up ... but the principle of summing up all sources of money and then using it to buy card(s) which cost as much or less than this very total was obvious to me.

That you cannot buy a card which costs 0 if you have -3 is not something that need explaining unless, bluntly speaking, you are playing with a bunch of mathematical imbeciles who are unable to deal with negative numbers. As my gaming group does not consist of mathematical imbeciles I do not worry about them not understanding that -4<0.

You were assuming already that the rules deal with math in this case. There could have very easily have been a rule, or even just a clarification in the rules, that states "you can always buy a copper even if you don't have any money."

Again, think about real life. Basic math says that if you have $0, you cannot buy something that costs $1. If you have $5, you cannot buy something that costs $7. But if you have $-10, you CAN buy something that costs $0. Once you're talking about things that cost $0, basic math no longer applies to buying things in real life.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:10:50 pm by GendoIkari »
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tristan

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Re: my cards
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2015, 02:18:57 pm »
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You were assuming already that the rules deal with math in this case. There could have very easily have been a rule, or even just a clarification in the rules, that states "you can always buy a copper even if you don't have any money."
I were not assuming anything, I just seem to have understood the principles of the rules well enough to apply them appropriately for this card.( Now about how individual cards combo with others, well, like in all combo-intense card games I have to read that stuff up during games.)
If there had been such a rule I would have remembered it as it would have been a fairly nasty example of a badly written rule. But DXV writes decent rulebooks with general principles instead of exceptions over exceptions (card games feature ample of exceptions in the individual card section of the rules), hence ≤ instead of "you can always buy a Copper".
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:22:33 pm by tristan »
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Asper

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Re: my cards
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2015, 04:26:51 pm »
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Shelters and no $2 kingdom card (Might as well buy an Estate)

Just to be clear, this is a bad idea unless you are specifically trying to bump up Trade Route.

Why? Would you say buying an Estate (over nothing) to replace Hovel is that much worse than waiting to replace it with a Province? I think it hardly matters if you have trashers in the kingdom, either way.
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