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[Elanchana]

Code: [Select]

Beggar, Crossroads, Vagrant, University, Lookout, Philosopher's Stone, Cutpurse, Envoy, Nomad Camp, Graverobber
Log.

This was the game that killed my 5k rating last night. It started out okay - the board had """"decent"""" trashing, great draw, Graverobber for payload, and University to tie the whole thing together. My opponent and I opened the same way too, so I was doing something right. But then it all went to crap. After drawing only $1P on turn 5, being forced to skip my University on turn 8, and missing $5 a ton of times, I lost the Graverobber split HARD. That was then followed by a few terrible no-draw hands and terminal collisions while I desperately tried to catch up on Duchies with my opponent (who didn't get an Envoy until turn 14???). My one good turn, turn 20, happened when it was too late to matter.

Was there anything I could have done to save myself? Apart from a few Lookout choices, it seemed like my opponent made more mistakes than I did and that I lost because of bad shuffle luck, but I know I can't just blame it on that.

[Roadrunner7671]

Your opponent got an Envoy on turn seven. I think a second Lookout might've been good for you, but I think it was mostly bad shuffle luck.

[Elanchana]

Your opponent got an Envoy on turn seven.

Oh yeah, you're right. But he trashed it before he got to use it, so it didn't make any difference. <.<

[liopoil]

I'm not sure why both of you got so many graverobbers so early. I'm rusty, but I feel like you should get lots of envoys first, and then once your draw is really going, add graverobbers. I also don't really like cutpurse here since it's a stop card. You want maybe one nomad camp so that you can have uni/vagrant turns. But apart from that, you want one or two lookouts, a potion, and then as many universities and envoys as you can get. Add a single crossroads once the actions start becoming scarce. That it took 20 turns for you to combine for 2 provinces on a board without any real attacks should show that the graverobber split is really not a priority early on.

[markusin]

I'm not sure why both of you got so many graverobbers so early. I'm rusty, but I feel like you should get lots of envoys first, and then once your draw is really going, add graverobbers. I also don't really like cutpurse here since it's a stop card. You want maybe one nomad camp so that you can have uni/vagrant turns. But apart from that, you want one or two lookouts, a potion, and then as many universities and envoys as you can get. Add a single crossroads once the actions start becoming scarce. That it took 20 turns for you to combine for 2 provinces on a board without any real attacks should show that the graverobber split is really not a priority early on.

I'm going to agree with this. The only thing Graverobber can do here is gain Provinces. It's next to useless before the greening phase.

Once you have enough draw and Universities, you can gain Graverobbers mid-turn with University do gain an extra Province or two. Also I don't see there being a Graverobbers "split" because you can just gain back the Graverobbers in the trash, or even Graverobbers your opponent trashed, so long as you have at least one Graverobber.

Cutpurse is pretty meh here as there's a bunch of good cheap stuff and no priority $5s, plus there's University to gain stuff. This is not a board where you have excess actions.

This is all assuming Envoy Big-Money is not better than anything else you can do here.

[Awaclus]

I'm not sure why both of you got so many graverobbers so early. I'm rusty, but I feel like you should get lots of envoys first, and then once your draw is really going, add graverobbers. I also don't really like cutpurse here since it's a stop card. You want maybe one nomad camp so that you can have uni/vagrant turns. But apart from that, you want one or two lookouts, a potion, and then as many universities and envoys as you can get. Add a single crossroads once the actions start becoming scarce. That it took 20 turns for you to combine for 2 provinces on a board without any real attacks should show that the graverobber split is really not a priority early on.

This. Usually, you shouldn't get your payload before you're already drawing your deck (or about to do so next turn), and that applies in this game as well.

[Elanchana]

Good point about the build-before-payload thing. That's why I thought my opponent made more mistakes than I did, although that didn't stop him (him?) from winning. Two questions about that though:

1. Would an earlier second Envoy have been a good bet for me? I did gain my first one turn 5 with Uni but should I have gotten another turn 7 instead of one of the Graverobbers? The reason I didn't is because I only had one Uni and one Crossroads and still a lot of bloat left, so it would have meant strong possibility of getting screwed over by dead draw.

2. If I had waited longer on the Graverobbers, do you think that I would have even gotten enough to use them as payload? Seeing as my opponent started grabbing them left right and center after turn 7, and I'm pretty sure our strategies both revolved around not leaving any Graverobbers in the trash long enough for the other person to take, was it worth sacrificing some build just to get the three I had?

[Awaclus]

Good point about the build-before-payload thing. That's why I thought my opponent made more mistakes than I did, although that didn't stop him (him?) from winning. Two questions about that though:

1. Would an earlier second Envoy have been a good bet for me? I did gain my first one turn 5 with Uni but should I have gotten another turn 7 instead of one of the Graverobbers? The reason I didn't is because I only had one Uni and one Crossroads and still a lot of bloat left, so it would have meant strong possibility of getting screwed over by dead draw.

2. If I had waited longer on the Graverobbers, do you think that I would have even gotten enough to use them as payload? Seeing as my opponent started grabbing them left right and center after turn 7, and I'm pretty sure our strategies both revolved around not leaving any Graverobbers in the trash long enough for the other person to take, was it worth sacrificing some build just to get the three I had?

I think you should have gotten Envoys instead of both of the Graverobbers turn 7. If your opponent gets all the Graverobbers before you get any, you can easily win by using basic Treasures for payload.

[liopoil]

1. Would an earlier second Envoy have been a good bet for me? I did gain my first one turn 5 with Uni but should I have gotten another turn 7 instead of one of the Graverobbers?

Yes

2. If I had waited longer on the Graverobbers, do you think that I would have even gotten enough to use them as payload?

Yes

was it worth sacrificing some build just to get the three I had?

No

Note that you got your three graverobbers before he did. Graverobber is just as terminal as envoy, and it doesn't even draw. One uni and one crossroad is enough to justify three envoys in your deck.