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[jimjam]

I get the impression that jimjam might have been referring to the "skill" of cheating in a game with the actual cards.  As in, it would take "skill" to use sleight-of-hand to shuffle both your Treasure Maps to the top of your deck after playing Chancellor without your opponents noticing.

Perhaps I have misinterpreted his remarks.

Yeah, that was what I meant. Though Chancellor and Treasure Map don't have to be a combo for this to work.

Though it is true that bad cards are very satisfying to win with. 4+ card combos are hard to spot, especially since they're rare enough that you won't have thought/heard about it before the game.

[Piemaster]

As HiveMindEmulator already pointed out, you have to differ between buying and actually playing the cards.

Yes, I probably should have made that clearer.  When I created the thread I was thinking about all angles really: 

- How difficult it is to spot when the card is good and when it is bad
- How 'trappy' the card is
- How hard it is to determine the right number for your deck/engine
- How unforgiving it is when you get the above wrong
- How small the window for optimally buying the card is
- How many options it gives you when you play it (especially if alloptions are situationally useful)
- How 'perfectly' you have to use the card to make it function well.
- How differently you have to use the card in different situations to make it work

All the above (and probbly more) contribute to wards making a card more skill-intensive

[WanderingWinder]

When to play it, what choices to make when playing it (for cards that have choices), and WHEN to buy it are all also important questions.

[Asklepios]

I'd agree with Embargo being a card that shows the skill of the player.

I think using Embargo well, and knowing when to take it requires quite a broad skill set, including but not limited to:

• Understanding money density and when a disposable silver is better than a permanent silver, and vice versa.
• Understanding terminal action economy.
• Knowing when to spend more than $2 on a $2 card.
• Understanding pace, and the shuffle timings, thus knowing your odds of getting your embargo down in time.
• Understanding gold advantage, and the benefits of an early gold lockout, and of course how to get two gold and an embargo down before your opponent does...
• Understanding marginal VP counting, and the difference that one curse can make.
• Understanding the key strategies and combos, so you can block or slow your opponents emergent strategies.
• Understanding how to use the curse pile to approach a three pile ending.

Many of the games I've been most proud of have including opening Embargo with a 4/3 split, and its definitely my favourite Dominion card, mostly because of its ability to alter the dynamic of a game subtly. I've also seen it used horrendously badly - many mid level players seem to use it to block what they see as a dominant strategy rather than the strategy that is clearly being pursued by their opponents, or blindly embargo something someone has bought once. For example, in a recent game, an opponent got a Witch/Embargo on a 5/2 opening (to my 4/3) and what did he Embargo? Not the Witches, which was the obvious solution, but the Fishing Villages... which I already had one of, along with an embargo. Needless to say, I won that game, which pleased me greatly as coming up from the wrong end of a 5/2 opening with a strong attack present is always hard...

Worst of all, the lowest level players often embargo cards that they think no-one will ever want to buy, like the curse pile, In my opinion, the only time you should embargo the curse pile is if you want to buy a curse and gain a curse, and thus bring about a three-pile with you in first place.

So for me, Embargo is the card that most differentiates skill levels between players. Sure, the multiple choice cards do that too (Governor especially), but how to use those cards is easily taught on a card by card basis, whereas I believe mastering Embargo requires mastery of the whole game.