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Author Topic: Seaside: Treasure Map  (Read 24096 times)

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jotheonah

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Seaside: Treasure Map
« on: January 09, 2012, 05:14:13 pm »
+7

This is my first attempt at an article, so please be kind with your constructive criticism. There's nothing here that will astound the veteran player, but there's currently no article on the sit on this card and I think this hits some of the major points often missed by beginners.

Seaside: Treasure Map

Treasure Map is, as Donald X. would say, a cute card. Gold is really good, right? And 4 Golds, that's a lot of Gold. Right there, on top of your deck.

The problem is that, at $4, you can't open TM/TM.  So it takes at least three turns to get 2 Maps, another 2 to hit a reshuffle, and at that point you have to rely on luck to get 2 of your 12 cards together in a hand (and that's assuming you open Treasure Map/nothing). Your odds of hitting before the third reshuffle without help are a mere 29 percent. The odds get better if you buy more Maps, but that's time your opponents could be spending building up an engine or just buying those Golds the easy way.  And the probability may not be relevant to you in a game where your opponent cashes in on Turn 5 and you're still floundering on Turn 15. Treasure Map is a notoriously luck-dependent card, and simulators prove that no Treasure Map-only strategy beats Big Money.

Luckily, there are other ways to get your Treasure Maps together. Note that you have to play one Treasure Map and have the other in hand to get the Golds, so, promising as they might sound at first, Scheme, Golem, and Throne Room are of no help to you (well, Scheme actually can be helpful, but not in such an obvious way).

Trashers are a big help, especially mass-trashers like Chapel. Get your deck down to 5 cards and your Treasure Maps are guaranteed to hit, plus once they do, your deck will be more than half Gold. Cyclers that leave you with an action, like Warehouse and Cellar, are good too. Terminal cyclers and drawers are no good – there's nothing worse than drawing two Treasure Maps together, with no Actions left to activate them. When trying to set up Maps without a trasher, be careful how much else you buy. Cantrips are best as they don't really take up space in your deck. One or two Silvers might be helpful to get the Maps quickly, but too many will be a liability.

Talisman lets you get your two Maps at once.  Throw in Royal Seal or Watchtower and it's a must-buy, but even without them, if you're committed to Treasure Maps, a Talisman will likely help, though you negate that help if you use it to buy a lot of other cards. 

Haven is a natural fit with Treasure Maps – save that Map until next turn. Same with cards like Scout, Navigator, and, especially Cartographer – anything that lets you set up your next hand. Tactician-Treasure Map is a no-brainer, as it dramatically increases your chances of hitting and gives you plenty of Actions. Even the humble Courtyard is not to be overlooked (though it is also a terminal drawer, so if you play it to save one Treasure Map, you might end up drawing the other one).

If you've somehow managed to build an engine that draws your whole deck but have neglected to buy enough money for it (not an uncommon situation for new players to the game, or for Scrying Pool decks), pick up a few quick Maps and inject a bunch of Gold into your engine all at once. Beware of Treasure Maps in a Possession game, as your opponent can trash your Maps and gain the Gold into his deck, then do it again next turn. But if Minion is out, skip the Maps altogether. If you somehow manage to put your Maps together, your Gold turn will probably still get ruined.

So I've managed to get four Gold onto my deck, what do I do with it? Well, the obvious answer is “buy a Province/Colony.”  And a lot of the time that is the right buy. In particular the Province buy. But four Golds and seven Copper is not going to power you through 5 Colonies, and your second set of Maps is going to be a lot harder to activate than your first. (Trying for a second set is almost certainly going to fail, unless you have a very specific plan for it.) So in a Colony game, a Platinum might actually be the right choice. You'll have to judge based on the efficiency of your opponent's deck.

If you can do it without a lot of extra trouble, and without making it harder for your Maps to hit, it's nice to be able to exert some control over what the fifth card will be on our Gold x4 hand.  Scheme is a good way to do this, stocking up on Schemes and Pawns (or another cantrip +Buy, so as not to hurt the chances of hitting the Maps in the first place).  Return your +Buy card to the top of your deck after you activate your Maps and you'll find yourself with 13 and 2 buys, much more helpful than 12 and one buy.

Wharf is even better than a Schemed Pawn (though you have to love the thematic synergy there), giving you the +Buy and another 2 cards, but Wharf is a terminal drawer, so getting it set up might not be worth it. On the other hand, it's a non-terminal draw on your next turn, so it could help you set up the Maps if played carefully.

By far the easiest to set up is Nomad Camp, since it goes to your top-deck when you buy it, assuming you can muster $4 after trashing your Maps. This means at least having one Silver floating around.

If you don't see an enabler for Treasure Maps on the board, just say no. Treasure Maps are a shiny trap. Even if there are good enablers, think seriously about whether Maps are going to be faster than the next best alternative. Playing Treasure Maps does tend to involve committing to them, at least until you get them activated. Trying to pursue another strategy with Treasure Maps on the side is a losing proposition.  Plan on the worst luck scenario, not the best one.

When you actually get those Maps to hit, it's a nice feeling, and it can certainly decide the game.  But be smart with them – they're not nearly as cute as they look.

COMBOS WITH: Haven, Talisman, Watchtower, Royal Seal, Warehouse, Cellar, non-terminal drawers, heavy trashing, Scheme (but not the way you'd think), Alchemist, Cartographer, Scout, Navigator, Nomad Camp, Tactician, Outpost, Wharf.

CONFLICTS WITH: Cursing attacks, terminal drawers, Golem, Possession, deck attacks like Bureaucrat, Spy, Fortune Teller, and Rabble, Minion.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 08:25:29 pm by jotheonah »
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ycz6

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 05:20:59 pm »
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Good article! Well-thought out and comprehensive.
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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 05:43:39 pm »
+1

A pretty good article overall. There are a couple points I'd like to make: First, treasure maps get better with more players. Well, they don't, but say you're in a four player game. Well, you've got like a 30-something percent chance of hitting these fast enough to be dominating, which is really good for 4th position...
Next, and more important, spending almost any time to work out how to fix the 5th card you get with the golds is not going to be a great proposition. On the plus side, several of the enablers work pretty well for that fifth card, if you're lucky enough (haven is particularly good).
Usually, platinum is what you want on your post-map turn in a colony game, province in a non-colony game.

Jack Rudd

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 06:07:17 pm »
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Don't forget Nomad Camp as a +Buy for the 4-Gold turn; it has the bonus that if you buy it after trashing your Treasure Maps, it automatically goes on top with the four golds.
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jonts26

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2012, 06:10:47 pm »
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the humble Courtyard

You also misspelled awesome.


As for the actual content of the article, I would say overall it's pretty comprehensive but there's a couple points I'd like to add to. The talisman/watchtower trick is a lot of fun but I'm not totally convinced by it. The big problem is that you want those cards early game, but you have to resign yourself to not playing the watchtower so you can use the topdecking. And without a silver you need to draw talisman, 3 coppers, watchtower to have it hit. Not something I'd count on. And then your chances of watchtower/talisman colliding only go down from there unless you load up on talismans or watchtowers, which you don't really want to do.

I also want to add that unless you are able to draw your deck, or at least most of it, trying for a second set of maps is a terrible idea, even with decent support like warehouse or haven.

But really, your last few sentences sum it up. Treasure map is a huge trap for beginners, but recognizing when it's good will make it a very powerful card on the right board.
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chwhite

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 06:15:26 pm »
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Usually, platinum is what you want on your post-map turn in a colony game, province in a non-colony game.

This is truth.  If you're going for Treasure Map, chances are you've enabled it with sifters or trashing, and in that case four Golds and seven Coppers is plenty enough for five Provinces if you've got the Warehouses to power through the green.

I find that I err on the side of avoiding the maps: it's usually not the best strategy on the board, but it is the best strategy more often than I realize.
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Voltgloss

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 06:25:05 pm »
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Maybe add Tactician to the "Combos With" group?  Arguably it sorta falls under the category of "non-terminal drawers," but Tactician operates differently enough from most such cards that it may be worth calling out specifically.

And I would suggest adding Minion to the "Conflicts With" group.  All the topdecking in the world isn't going to help if your opponent then makes you discard the hand you so carefully set up.  And if they didn't have a Minion in hand when you matched your Treasure Maps, it's likely coming in their next hand - just in time to force you to discard all those Golds.  Painful either way.

Another possible addition to the "Combos With" group:  Outpost.  Play Outpost on a turn when you've managed to topdeck Treasure Maps (e.g., with Talisman/Royal Seal), and you've just found a damned effective use of a 3-card turn.  Or, if you have a +action, play Outpost on the turn you match your Treasure Maps and you've just split your 4-Gold hand into one hand of 3 Golds and a second hand bolstered by the 4th Gold.  Use the 3-Gold hand to buy a Province or Platinum like you were planning, and then enjoy that the 4th Gold is actually being put to some immediate use.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 06:31:43 pm by Voltgloss »
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Kore

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 06:25:28 pm »
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So it takes at least three turns to get 2 Maps, another 2 to hit a reshuffle, and at that point you have to rely on luck to get 2 of your 12 cards together in a hand (and that's assuming you open Treasure Map/nothing). The odds get better if you buy more Maps, but that's time your opponents could be spending building up an engine or just buying those Golds the easy way.  And the probability may not be relevant to you in a game where your opponent cashes in on Turn 5 and you're still floundering on Turn 15. Treasure Map is a notoriously luck-dependent card, and simulators prove that no Treasure Map-only strategy beats Big Money.

Nice article. The only thing I really have to add is that the chances of activating two treasure maps without any enablers is pretty easily to calculate. If you have 2 treasure maps, the chance of drawing them both together on a given shuffle is 1 - (n-5)/(n-1) where n is the number of cards in your deck. This is ~29% on your third shuffle if you keep buying non-treasure map cards and ~36% if you don't buy anything but 2 treasure maps in your first 5 buys.

Also I'm not sold on what you say about using the $12 you get on your treasure map turn for anything but a province. When I'm playing big money, I'm going to start buying provinces when I have >2 golds in my deck and I don't see why that should change for treasure maps. I could make an exception for platinum possibly but 4 golds is a nice chunk of money in your deck so I'd expect to hit $9 again pretty soon.
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dondon151

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 06:33:18 pm »
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Also I'm not sold on what you say about using the $12 you get on your treasure map turn for anything but a province. When I'm playing big money, I'm going to start buying provinces when I have >2 golds in my deck and I don't see why that should change for treasure maps. I could make an exception for platinum possibly but 4 golds is a nice chunk of money in your deck so I'd expect to hit $9 again pretty soon.

In addition to this, most BM strats should start buying Provinces when they have $19 in the deck, which is exactly where 4 Gold and 7 Copper puts you.
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DG

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 07:02:42 pm »
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Another bad enemy of the treasure map is the minion. It's hard to pair up the maps in 4 card hands and the minion is sure to discard your gold once you cash in.
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jotheonah

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 07:54:16 pm »
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This is all good advice! I will put up a revision tomorrow or the next day.

EDIT: Just kidding, I'm putting one up right now.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 08:17:18 pm by jotheonah »
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rrenaud

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 09:08:59 pm »
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I'd emphasize more that opening Treasure Map without a combo card that let's you get them together is overall a bad play.   It's your 12th paragraph (excluding intro), but it should be the 2nd.
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Davio

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2012, 03:04:12 am »
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I agree with Rrenaud on the combo-opening.
If you need a combo-card that costs $5, it can take a while to get it.

From my experience Warehouse is one of the best enablers, since it's cheap (you can open TM/Warehouse) and powerful.
With Warehouse, you only need your 2 TMs to be together in a set of (4+3=) 7 cards. And you can always buy another Warehouse.

I'd like to include Courtyard as an honorable mention. It's not a powerhouse like Warehouse, but if there's no other enabler, it suffices.
The added bonus of Courtyard is that once you've gotten the 4 Golds, you can more easily move them around for your Province buys.
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brokoli

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 06:52:27 am »
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Nice article.

I'm not convinced by possession as a counter. Often, you buy treasure map at the early game, and possession take a while to buy.
Also, for the watchtower/Royal seal trick... well, talisman is helpful, but Watchtower/Royal seal is too risky, and Royal Seal is too expensive...

As Davio said, the cheap cards are more helpful than the expensives. Haven, chapel, cellar and Warehouse are the best options. Spice merchant is good also, but the $4 cost conflicts with the treasure maps. Courtyard is a terminal card, not so good...

Another point about haven : Like scheme, it helps a lot to get a +buy the turn when you have four golds.
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DG

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 08:18:53 am »
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Don't get caught up with the "too late in the game" notion. A well prepared deck can gain and cash treasure maps as the final step before province buying.
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tlloyd

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 12:04:26 pm »
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Don't forget Nomad Camp as a +Buy for the 4-Gold turn; it has the bonus that if you buy it after trashing your Treasure Maps, it automatically goes on top with the four golds.

As an alternative, I could see buying a Mandarin on the turn after you activate the maps (the turn with the four golds), if you don't have too many terminals and it's a province game. Buying the mandarin would only delay your province buy rather than sacrificing it, and the Mandarin keeps your buying power up while also adding Haven/Courtyard-like flexibility. If there is a non-terminal source of +buy, I would go for that and Mandarin. But what would you choose between Mandarin and Woodcutter/Nomad Camp?
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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 12:07:52 pm »
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How does Scheme work with Treasure Map?  Scheme lets you put a card in play back on top of your deck.  If you play a single Treasure Map, you trash it and it doesn't return to the top of your deck.  Scheme does not combo with Treasure Map at all.
Read the article.
Edit: mind you, I still don't think it combos very well, but at least there is some rationality there.

Taco Lobster

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 12:11:35 pm »
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How does Scheme work with Treasure Map?  Scheme lets you put a card in play back on top of your deck.  If you play a single Treasure Map, you trash it and it doesn't return to the top of your deck.  Scheme does not combo with Treasure Map at all.
Read the article.
Edit: mind you, I still don't think it combos very well, but at least there is some rationality there.

Yeah, I reread it and saw that I missed the part about Scheme not working directly with the Treasure Map, so I deleted my post.  I agree with your edit though, and spent a while fiddling with my post before abandoning the effort altogether.
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jomini

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 01:16:10 pm »
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Another good combo card is salvager. It clears outs estates & the odd copper, improving your odds of hitting both maps. Also, if you can get it in the 4 gold turn (either by using a haven-like effect or by just having enough salvagers), you can move from 12 coin & 1 buy to 15 coin & 2 buys allowing for either an immediate province & duchy buy or to buy any engine card. I also find that salvaging the golds/provinces can quickly push to endgame.

One of my favourite enabling cards is apprentice. It trashes to improve map odds and as a non-terminal draw it allows for easy treasure map pairing. Further, when you trash a gold/province, you can easily draw your whole deck and play +buys to utilize your gold for multiple big purchases.

There is a really easy way to pair up treasure maps - abuse an inn right before a reshuffle. On the last turn before a shuffle, buy an inn. Now pull your two treasure maps out of the discard & shuffle them into the deck. For the trivial case, you could have 3 cards in the deck and pull 2 maps out of the discard.

Optimally  this would be: open whatever/map, on turn 3, buy a second map. On turn 4 you should have 5 cards in hand, 2 in deck, and 6 cards in the discard (which must include one map). You have a 5/12 chance that your first map is in your hand and a 7/12 chance that it is in the discard or the deck. In either of the latter cases, you can buy an inn (assuming you have 5 coin) and then pull the map(s) out and shuffle them into your deck. Turn 5 cash in the maps. This idiotically quick treasure map also fails if you don't hit 4 coin on turn 3 or 5 coin on turn 4, get hit by a minion on turn 5, or are forced to reshuffle early (spy, governor, council room, thief, etc.). If you do miss, you can just buy a different 5 and then try your luck with 2 maps in deck or buy an inn just prior to the next shuffle. Inn/treasure map should also combo well with chancellor - place your entire deck (including two treasure maps) into the discard, then buy an inn, pull the maps from the discard into the deck, shuffle the deck consisting of nothing but maps & other actions you'd like, and then trash the maps next shuffle.

Another way to get maps to hit without a lot of dead time is to acquire & draw the maps at the same time. For instance, a TR/upgrade deck can churn estates to silvers, buy TR/upgrade/draw, and trash out the coppers. With this setup you can then upgrade silvers to maps and every card in your deck is essentially self-replacing (TR/upgrade giving +2 actions and +2 cards, and any single draw card or TR/Draw uses at most one action). Once you hit, you can upgrade upgrades into golds or TR into duchies. In general, if you can acquire, draw & play cards in the same turn, treasure map is an extremely powerful way to cash that combo out. Even something like TR/council room/IW can manage an easy shot pairing the maps up.
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vandergus

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2012, 03:56:56 pm »
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How well does Native Village work with Treasure Map?

Pros:
  • You can open Treasure Map/Native Village
  • It either thins your deck or (ideally) stores a Treasure Map for a later turn

Cons:
  • The card that gets stored is random instead of from your hand
  • The +2 actions aren't that useful since you probably don't want a bunch of terminals in your deck
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MasterAir

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2012, 09:17:53 am »
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I really dislike Treasure Map, it almost always turns the game into a crapshoot.  There is rarely anything particularly subtle about which enablers to use, and the ~30% chance of hitting on the 3rd shuffle is high enough that those 1/3 games are pretty much over at that point even if there are no enablers.  This is especially true in a multiplayer game.  One of WanderingWinders vlogs of his championship games showed this.  WW played for the Treasure Map, his opponent didn't at the start but hit his maps first.  WW lost.  Treasure Map isn't a power card, but Treasure Map and a slice of luck is near unbeatable*.

*Usual caveats apply - there is no single card in Dominion that is always correct or always wrong.
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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 04:31:06 pm »
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How well does Native Village work with Treasure Map?

Pros:
  • You can open Treasure Map/Native Village
  • It either thins your deck or (ideally) stores a Treasure Map for a later turn

Cons:
  • The card that gets stored is random instead of from your hand
  • The +2 actions aren't that useful since you probably don't want a bunch of terminals in your deck

I suspect it doesn't work that well.

1) It might mess up your first shuffle badly. Open TM/NV, draw NV CCCE, use NV to put a copper on the mat, then draw TM CCC E... and be stuck with only one TM after your second shuffle.
2) At first, you're still trying to pair your two TMs together. The NVs aren't cantrips so they don't help yet...
3) ...until the time that you get lucky and put one of the TMs on the mat. But then you're STILL trying to pair up your second TM with a NV! I guess if you got multiple NVs, that's easier than pairing up two treasure maps, but if you hadn't gotten the NVs you would have had the coin to just get more TMs.
4) ...and maybe eventually you get lucky and put both TMs on the mat, and then you just need to draw one more NV. But that won't be common.

Anyone wanna check the simulations on that?

I guess done right, NV/TM is better than unaided TM, but I suspect that NV as an enabler is not enough to make TM worthwhile without something else  too...
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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2012, 02:51:13 pm »
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Had a decent game with TM/Loan the other day. I only bought a TM because my opponent did, and granted I got about as lucky as I good with it lining up. BUT I think trashing the coppers out with loan did improve both the value of the Gold and the smallness of my deck, so I can think of worse threes to open with. Just don't do what I did and play your loan on your TM turn (not that it mattered).

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120129-133437-2785a32e.html

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2012, 02:55:30 pm »
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Just don't do what I did and play your loan on your TM turn

Why not? You have four golds on the deck. You need three to be guaranteed a province; so loan discarding one is okay, maybe even good because it helps you cycle back to the gold faster.
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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2012, 07:04:49 pm »
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Just don't do what I did and play your loan on your TM turn

Why not? You have four golds on the deck. You need three to be guaranteed a province; so loan discarding one is okay, maybe even good because it helps you cycle back to the gold faster.
Agreed. In a colony game, don't; in a province game,do.
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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2012, 07:31:08 pm »
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Missing from the article is Chancellor/TM. Not as good of an enabler as Warehouse is, but proper use of discard is significantly quicker than TM alone and allows for ridiculousness such as this turn 4 TM trashing.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120125-140652-1d307640.html
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Guy Srinivasan

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2012, 03:19:14 am »
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simulators prove that no Treasure Map-only strategy beats Big Money.
Not even "if you have exactly 4 on turn 3, buy TM with this and your next two 4-5 buys, except of course don't buy the third if you've already cashed in your first two, and after you cash in your first two, trash the third when it comes up, and otherwise play BM"?

I'm pretty sure that beats BM. I'm not sure whether it's better to keep going TM if you miss on turn 5 or to transition straight back into BM.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2012, 05:35:29 am »
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Had a decent game with TM/Loan the other day. I only bought a TM because my opponent did, and granted I got about as lucky as I good with it lining up. BUT I think trashing the coppers out with loan did improve both the value of the Gold and the smallness of my deck, so I can think of worse threes to open with. Just don't do what I did and play your loan on your TM turn (not that it mattered).

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120129-133437-2785a32e.html
Well, you got extremely lucky. I think simple Wharf/money is probably the best strategy here.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2012, 06:12:53 am »
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Treasure Map alone will actually beat Big Money about 50-40. There's just a play rule missing for the TM where it needs to be played as soon as there was a previous TM collision (to get rid of extra TM's that were bought). Expect the next release of the simulator to include the updated TM play rule.
As for getting $4 on your third turn: this adds 10% win rate against BMU (this can be tested by setting the "start state" to turn 3)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2012, 10:10:20 am »
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Just don't do what I did and play your loan on your TM turn

Why not? You have four golds on the deck. You need three to be guaranteed a province; so loan discarding one is okay, maybe even good because it helps you cycle back to the gold faster.
Agreed. In a colony game, don't; in a province game,do.

Even in a Colony game, it would be a smart move, if you plan on buying Platinum.
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barsooma

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2012, 08:27:04 pm »
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Just don't do what I did and play your loan on your TM turn

Why not? You have four golds on the deck. You need three to be guaranteed a province; so loan discarding one is okay, maybe even good because it helps you cycle back to the gold faster.
Agreed. In a colony game, don't; in a province game,do.

The consensus above seemed to be that in a colony game you want to be going for Platinum with your gold buy, so why not play the loan then as well?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2012, 05:02:48 pm »
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rotundo

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2012, 09:35:27 pm »
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There is a really easy way to pair up treasure maps - abuse an inn right before a reshuffle.

I was looking for Inn in there too. I didn't pull it off until Turn 9 here, but it worked pretty well in the end.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120212-173633-210df552.html
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jotheonah

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Re: Seaside: Treasure Map
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2012, 01:54:30 am »
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theory is pretty much the man to petition here, but I wouldn't say no to adding a note on Inn to the article. Also, if it's really true that TM does beat BM that should be amended. But theory, I'm acually really flattered that you put my first-ever article on the blog at all.
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