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[NateDominion]

I tried the first game engine against a BM player for the first time last night. I lost because often times before I got to the draw entire deck stage of it I ended up with  terminal collision problems, leading me to not buy anything some turns. Is there an efficient way to trash things like estates and some coppers (replacing the coppers with silvers) to get to the draw entire deck stage quicker?

Thanks,
Nate

[-Stef-]

I tried the first game engine against a BM player for the first time last night. I lost because often times before I got to the draw entire deck stage of it I ended up with  terminal collision problems, leading me to not buy anything some turns. Is there an efficient way to trash things like estates and some coppers (replacing the coppers with silvers) to get to the draw entire deck stage quicker?

Thanks,
Nate

There is no way to be absolutely safe. If you get terrible luck a deck with terminals will always* lose to a money-based deck. Especially if you play with cards that require "friends" (Moneylender requires copper, Remodel loves Estates, Baron requires Estate, ...) However, also after you decide to go for "terminals" or "engine" or whatever you'd like to call it, you can play it safer or riskier. What riskier or safer implies depends a lot on the kingdom, but in the first game engine it mainly comes down to the number of Villages you play with. Do you barely have enough or do you have a lot of them?

A trap you should prevent is buying too many terminals. Workshop, Mine, Militia are all cards you want only one of. Remodel you also want one of, although maybe very close to the end a second one. It is much better to have one Mine and play it every turn because you're flooded with Villages+Smithies that draw your entire deck every turn, then to have multiple Mines you can't all play anyway.


If you want more advice, you should describe in more detail what you tried.

* bla bla edgecase bla bla

[werothegreat]

You recommend picking up a Workshop?  I usually skip it, and just get the Remodel.

[Awaclus]

You recommend picking up a Workshop?  I usually skip it, and just get the Remodel.

I would get both.

[-Stef-]

You recommend picking up a Workshop?  I usually skip it, and just get the Remodel.

Skipping it is certainly not a big mistake on that board, but I think getting one is slightly better.

[pubby]

I assume this is the kingdom:

Cellar, Market, Militia, Mine, Moat, Remodel, Smithy, Village, Woodcutter, Workshop

[NateDominion]

I assume this is the kingdom:

Cellar, Market, Militia, Mine, Moat, Remodel, Smithy, Village, Woodcutter, Workshop

Yup

[NateDominion]

I tried the first game engine against a BM player for the first time last night. I lost because often times before I got to the draw entire deck stage of it I ended up with  terminal collision problems, leading me to not buy anything some turns. Is there an efficient way to trash things like estates and some coppers (replacing the coppers with silvers) to get to the draw entire deck stage quicker?

Thanks,
Nate

There is no way to be absolutely safe. If you get terrible luck a deck with terminals will always* lose to a money-based deck. Especially if you play with cards that require "friends" (Moneylender requires copper, Remodel loves Estates, Baron requires Estate, ...) However, also after you decide to go for "terminals" or "engine" or whatever you'd like to call it, you can play it safer or riskier. What riskier or safer implies depends a lot on the kingdom, but in the first game engine it mainly comes down to the number of Villages you play with. Do you barely have enough or do you have a lot of them?

A trap you should prevent is buying too many terminals. Workshop, Mine, Militia are all cards you want only one of. Remodel you also want one of, although maybe very close to the end a second one. It is much better to have one Mine and play it every turn because you're flooded with Villages+Smithies that draw your entire deck every turn, then to have multiple Mines you can't all play anyway.


If you want more advice, you should describe in more detail what you tried.

* bla bla edgecase bla bla

I didn't even buy a mine or workshop. I'm using geronimoo's first game engine. Also, is opening militia silver or remodel silver better?

[NateDominion]

You recommend picking up a Workshop?  I usually skip it, and just get the Remodel.

Skipping it is certainly not a big mistake on that board, but I think getting one is slightly better.

Best time to get one?

[NateDominion]

You recommend picking up a Workshop?  I usually skip it, and just get the Remodel.

I would get both.

When would you get a workshop?

[SCSN]

I'd open Remodel/Workshop, looking to buy/gain/remodel into a bunch of Villages and Smithies. The only Silvers that are entering my deck will come from Mine.

[Awaclus]

I'd open Remodel/Workshop, looking to buy/gain/remodel into a bunch of Villages and Smithies. The only Silvers that are entering my deck will come from Mine.

This.

[markusin]

I'd open Remodel/Workshop, looking to buy/gain/remodel into a bunch of Villages and Smithies. The only Silvers that are entering my deck will come from Mine.

This.

Yeah this is how I like to approach the first game engine. You don't need to rush to get Militia either. Set up the draw first.

[werothegreat]

I'd open Remodel/Workshop, looking to buy/gain/remodel into a bunch of Villages and Smithies. The only Silvers that are entering my deck will come from Mine.

I usually open Remodel/Silver to get a Mine earlier, either by buying it or Remodeling Silver into one, if I get an unlucky Remodel hand.  If I were playing an actually competent player, as opposed to teaching a new one, I'd probably do Remodel/Workshop as well to snag as many Villages as possible.

[Titandrake]

I'd open Remodel/Workshop, looking to buy/gain/remodel into a bunch of Villages and Smithies. The only Silvers that are entering my deck will come from Mine.

I usually open Remodel/Silver to get a Mine earlier, either by buying it or Remodeling Silver into one, if I get an unlucky Remodel hand.  If I were playing an actually competent player, as opposed to teaching a new one, I'd probably do Remodel/Workshop as well to snag as many Villages as possible.

Well, the goal of Remodel/Workshop is to gain Villages and Smithies as fast as possible to set up the draw engine. Mine is more like a payload card on this board. It's not exactly a payload because you do want Mine early, but by the time you get Mine you should expect to be able to play it almost every turn.

Edit: So what I'm really saying is, yes, Remodel/Silver is better for early Mine, but you don't want Mine that early, which is why I prefer Remodel/Workshop.

[ancientcampus]

So what I'm really saying is, yes, Remodel/Silver is better for early Mine, but you don't want Mine that early, which is why I prefer Remodel/Workshop.

Agreed. With Remodel/Workshop, though, my hands pretty much never pull more than $4 cash, until the deck takes off and I'm suddenly drawing the whole deck and hitting $9. So, I always buy the first market before mine.

[popsofctown]

Do you pick up a woodcutter so you can double province, or can you just mine all the way up to gold and remodel golds into provinces?

[sudgy]

Do you pick up a woodcutter so you can double province, or can you just mine all the way up to gold and remodel golds into provinces?

You can pick up a Market to double province.

[markusin]

Do you pick up a woodcutter so you can double province, or can you just mine all the way up to gold and remodel golds into provinces?

You buy Market. Market's presence makes getting Woodcutter very likely suboptimal.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Aleimon Thimble]

I remember that Woodcutter was the only card the optimized first game engine bot did not use. With Remodel, (possibly) Workshop, Mine, Militia and a bunch of Smithies your deck is full of terminals already, so you definitely prefer a non-terminal for the +Buy.

[michaeljb]

I think Moat was also not used.

[markusin]

I think Moat was also not used.

I'm curious if the Moat is sometimes a correct purchase in 3+ player games. Probably not for the engine, but maybe for more simple strategies that don't try to fight for engine pieces.

[popsofctown]

Do you pick up a woodcutter so you can double province, or can you just mine all the way up to gold and remodel golds into provinces?

You can pick up a Market to double province.

Oh, derp.