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[Marcory]

Also, shouldn't he have Feodums listed at 13 points apiece, since they're in the Kingdom?

[Deadlock39]

If you have 410 cards, wouldn't that be 41 point gardens?

I think he just forgot to change that, but he has it right in counting total VP.

Also, you mean mercenary, not urchin, in the gardens, vineyards, and fairgrounds counts. Sorry, it has just been bugging me. The 8 curses is really bugging me too. I want there to be more helpful cards to put in the black market deck! There is still no prosperity too, not even in the black market deck .

Mistakes are fixed.  You were correct lio, the Gardens point total was correct, I just missed the update to 41 points.  The Curses are a bit annoying.  They were working out better before all the dumb things I missed were caught.  If the Fairgrounds count wasn't so perfect, it just wouldn't be worth it to have them at all.

It would be interesting to see what 3/4p card counts would change (12 card piles of Island/Nobles/Great Hall are worth %50 more and all the extra Estates probably outweigh Shelters), but I'm not quite interested enough at the moment to run all the numbers for a solution.

[Deadlock39]

Also, shouldn't he have Feodums listed at 13 points apiece, since they're in the Kingdom?

I didn't separate Feodum because changing things about the Kingdom/Black Market does not effect their value.  There are 40 Silvers and that doesn't change.  The cards I listed out change value based on the other choices made.

Edit: I am dumb, and didn't understand what you were saying.  Feodum is totally not counted.

[liopoil]

What if we swap Distant Lands for Knights? Then we put Distant Lands in the BM deck, and swap Tunnel for an action

-28 points from 7 Distant Lands lost
-2 points from Tunnel
-16 points from SR (8 VP cards lost)
+8 points from Vineyards (Tunnel swap, 2 extra Actions in the kingdom for 3 extra actions)
+2 points from two fewer curses
+32 points from Fairgrounds (9 extra uniques, perhaps we can find a 10th?)

+42, -46, and that's assuming we can get another unique somewhere, which seems unlikely. So it is not quite worth it.

[Deadlock39]

Yeah, my calculation actually shows Rats being worth slightly less than Distant Lands.

I also think getting Knights into the Kingdom is the only Fairgrounds improvement available. I vaguely recall a thread talking about max Fairgrounds coming up one card short of a breakpoint.

Swapping Rats would drop 10 actions, which messes up all the break points.  With no optimization, you get

-32 points from Vineyards
+16 points from Fairgrounds

If there was a way to get one more action, and one more unique, you would gain 8 back from Vineyards and 16 for Fairgrounds, for a net of 8. I think that means if the BM deck had 26 cards instead of 25, you would gain 8 points from the swap, so it is pretty close.

[liopoil]

Well now we wait for another expansion or promo I guess, hopefully there will be one and it will make things come out more nicely.

I felt like there were more cards which add other cards to the game. Oh well.

[biomathics]

You can inherit something, making your estates count for vineyards.

Doh, did not account for that.

Perhaps the last improvements... maybe.


The Kingdom:
Vineyards, Gardens, Fairground, Silk Road, Black Market, Page (Bane), Peasant, Feodum, Duke, Distant Lands, Rats, Travelling Fair, Inheritance

The Black Market: (Credit liopoil)
Young Witch, Tournament, Baker, Graverobber, Urchin, Hermit, Native Village, Marauder, Great Hall, Nobles, Island, Harem, Farmland, Tunnel, Dame Josephine, 10 other Actions

Actions: Estate ( Black Market (32), Page (30), Peasant (30), Distant Lands ( Rats (20), Ruins (10), Madman (10), Urchin (10), Prizes (4) Necropolis (1)
Total: 163 for 54pt Vineyards

Cards: Base VP (32), Base Treasure (130), Potion(16), Kingdom VP (56), Black Market (35), Page (30), Peasant (30), Rats (20), Ruins (10), Madman (10), Urchin (10), Spoils (15), Prizes (5), Shelters (3) and ( Curses
Total: 410 for 41 pt Gardens

Uniques: Base VP (4), Treasure (5), Kingdom VP (7), Black Market (26), Page (5), Peasant (5), Rats(1), Ruins (5), Madman (1), Mercenary (1), Spoils (1), Shelters (3), Prizes (5), Curse(1)
Total: 70 for 28 pt Fairgrounds

Victory cards: Base VP (32), Kingdom VP (56), Black Market VP [Dame Josephine, Island, Nobles, Great Hall, Tunnel, Farmland, Harem] (7), Overgrown Estate (1)
Total: 96 for 24 pt Silk Road

Victory Points: Vineyards (432), Gardens (328), Fairgrounds (224), Silk Road (192), Colony (80), Duke (64), Province (48), Distant Lands (32), Duchy (24), Black Market VP (13), Estate (, Curse (-8)
Total:1437

A couple things I noticed regarding your math:
I think you left Platinum out of your card count, and Feoda out of your VP total

[Deadlock39]

A couple things I noticed regarding your math:
I think you left Platinum out of your card count, and Feoda out of your VP total

Yeah, you are totally right... I'll update when I get a chance.

[liopoil]

A couple things I noticed regarding your math:
I think you left Platinum out of your card count, and Feoda out of your VP total

Yeah, you are totally right... I'll update when I get a chance.

Wow, not sure how we missed that. Now only 6 curses, that makes me feel much better

[Deadlock39]

Credit to Marcory who totally caught the Feodum error, and I just thought he was wanting a point breakdown for some reason.

[Deadlock39]

Here we go again... I messed it up again of course.


The Kingdom:
Vineyards, Gardens, Fairground, Silk Road, Black Market, Page (Bane), Peasant, Feodum, Duke, Distant Lands, Rats, Travelling Fair, Inheritance

The Black Market: (Credit liopoil)
Young Witch, Tournament, Baker, Graverobber, Urchin, Hermit, Native Village, Marauder, Great Hall, Nobles, Island, Harem, Farmland, Tunnel, Dame Josephine, 10 other Actions

Actions: Estate (8) Black Market (32), Page (30), Peasant (30), Distant Lands (8) Rats (20), Ruins (10), Madman (10), Urchin (10), Prizes (4) Necropolis (1)
Total: 163 for 54pt Vineyards

Cards: Base VP (32), Base Treasure (142), Potion(16), Kingdom VP (56), Black Market (35), Page (30), Peasant (30), Rats (20), Ruins (10), Madman (10), Urchin (10), Spoils (15), Prizes (5), Shelters (3) and (6) Curses
Total: 420 for 42 pt Gardens

Uniques: Base VP (4), Treasure (5), Kingdom VP (7), Black Market (26), Page (5), Peasant (5), Rats(1), Ruins (5), Madman (1), Mercenary (1), Spoils (1), Shelters (3), Prizes (5), Curse(1)
Total: 70 for 28 pt Fairgrounds

Victory cards: Base VP (32), Kingdom VP (56), Black Market VP [Dame Josephine, Island, Nobles, Great Hall, Tunnel, Farmland, Harem] (7), Overgrown Estate (1)
Total: 96 for 24 pt Silk Road

Victory Points: Vineyards (432), Gardens (336), Fairgrounds (224), Silk Road (192), Feodum(104), Colony (80), Duke (64), Province (48), Distant Lands (32), Duchy (24), Black Market VP (13), Estate (8), Curse (-6)
Total:1551