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Author Topic: Scoring  (Read 3205 times)

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majiponi

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Scoring
« on: August 17, 2015, 12:55:20 am »
+1

From rulebook:
(l. 23, p. 5) Cards on Tavern mats are included in decks when scoring at the end.
(ll. 33-37, p. 11) At the end of the game, Distant Lands is worth 4 vps if it is on your mat, or 0 vp if it is not. It counts as part of your deck either way (for example it can contribute to how many vps a Gardens is worth).

From the first quotation, DL has no chance to be worth 4 vps because it is included to my deck, not TM. On the other hand, from the second, it can be worth 4 vps.

Any misunderstanding?
Cards on TM are belong to my deck?
(Unlike Islands, returning is needless?)
If not, why can it contribute to Gardens points?

What does "deck" mean?
Is it the same idea of Philosopher's Stone's flavor?

Please explain.
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sudgy

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Re: Scoring
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 01:15:42 am »
+3

All cards that you have are your deck at the end of the game.  Distant Lands is obviously supposed to be worth the 4 VP, so I would say it gets its VP value before you put it in your deck or something.  I think the rules saying that all cards are put in your deck as a formality; I personally just think of it as all cards referencing decks at the end of the game just refer to my cards, and you don't need to move any cards anywhere (other than what you need to count and such).
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ConMan

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Re: Scoring
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 01:52:38 am »
+6

Based on the wording of both the base game rules and Philosopher's Stone, I would say that during play, your "deck" specifically refers to your draw pile. However, at the end of the game, all cards that are "yours" get returned to your deck - including cards in hand, in play, in your discard pile, set aside, and on your tavern mat (but not cards that you never had, nor cards you got rid of during play) - for the purpose of scoring.

However, from both the wording and intent of Distant Lands, if you put it on your tavern mat, then at the end of the game it *does* provide you with 4 VP, and it *also* counts as a card in your deck for the purpose of Gardens, Silk Road, etc.

Given this is apparently a bit of a fluid concept, I might try drafting up a wiki article to cover what it means at various points of the game.
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ConMan

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Re: Scoring
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 03:14:00 am »
0

And here it is. Have at me.
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Davio

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Re: Scoring
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2015, 06:28:50 am »
0

There is nothing contradictory here, only a timing issue.

Just count up Distand Land's points before putting them in your deck to count for Gardens.

You can also think of your VP as a running total that you have during the game, not just when it's over.
If you think of it this way, a Province always immediately gives you 6 VP on-gain and DL immediately gives you 4 VP when you play it and put it on your mat.
This way, the timing of the end of the game is a non-issue. Dynamic VP cards like Gardens and Vineyards have their VP adjusted during the game.

But all of it's just pedantics and common sense is good enough to understand the VPs don't disappear at the end of the game, because you're supposed to put everything in your deck. You're also supposed to do a full clean-up at the end of your turn before you check the end of game conditions, but nobody really does that.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Scoring
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 06:59:09 am »
+5

And here it is. Have at me.

Yes, I think #3 here explains it perfectly. It's not a timing issue. You don't first count the DL points and then move them from your tavern mat to your deck. Rather you just consider that the cards on your tavern mat ARE in your deck, as much as cards on the Island mat are. It is unfortunate that Island and Native Village have that text on them mentioning that cards are returned to your deck. That text doesn't change how the cards work, it is just meant to be a helpful reminder, but I think it causes extra confusion.
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ConMan

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Re: Scoring
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 06:43:37 pm »
0

And here it is. Have at me.

Yes, I think #3 here explains it perfectly. It's not a timing issue. You don't first count the DL points and then move them from your tavern mat to your deck. Rather you just consider that the cards on your tavern mat ARE in your deck, as much as cards on the Island mat are. It is unfortunate that Island and Native Village have that text on them mentioning that cards are returned to your deck. That text doesn't change how the cards work, it is just meant to be a helpful reminder, but I think it causes extra confusion.
Well, the base rulebook *also* says you put all those cards into your deck. It's just that Distant Lands "activates", for want of a better word, once it's on your tavern mat.
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majiponi

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Re: Scoring
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 07:58:27 pm »
0

Thank you for your advice.
Now I can explain the way of scoring more naturally.
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