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Author Topic: Summon: Promo Event card  (Read 81471 times)

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jsh357

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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2015, 08:28:33 pm »
+2

So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.

My experience is "most things," as long as you don't have a better $5 card option.  Playing a card now is usually better than playing it later. Tracking your deck helps for some things, like trashers. You can also use it as a crappy one-shot Village if there's a +1 Action card in the kingdom. Like Prince, cards that draw are obviously great to have at the start of your turn, but unlike Prince, you have to shuffle the card in later so it's nice to get something nonterminal.  Overall, a lot of considerations that are board dependent.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2015, 08:30:50 pm »
0

You can be pro, play two Highways, and get a free Goons.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2015, 08:33:47 pm »
+1

So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.

My experience is "most things," as long as you don't have a better $5 card option.  Playing a card now is usually better than playing it later. Tracking your deck helps for some things, like trashers. You can also use it as a crappy one-shot Village if there's a +1 Action card in the kingdom. Like Prince, cards that draw are obviously great to have at the start of your turn, but unlike Prince, you have to shuffle the card in later so it's nice to get something nonterminal.  Overall, a lot of considerations that are board dependent.

Okay, now I'm certain you guys are canoodling over a tenth expansion.  I'm doubtful that you'd get everybody together just to playtest one Promo Event.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2015, 08:52:57 pm »
+1

If anyone is wondering what this got used in the GenCon tourney for this year, I mainly used it as a counter to Haunted Woods and Swamp Hag whose attacks trigger on a buy, or in kingdoms containing a miser as a way of spending $5 now to get however many coppers I have on my tavern mat next turn.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2015, 09:08:08 pm »
0

So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.

Transmogrify is good.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2015, 09:12:01 pm »
+1

So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.

Transmogrify is good.

Basically any Reserve card.  Either they're terminal, or they call at the start of your turn.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2015, 11:58:28 pm »
+4

Also LastFootnote came up with this card!

And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.

My guess is playtester-made cards will be limited to Promos.

(And Courtyard?)
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2015, 12:02:16 am »
0

Also LastFootnote came up with this card!

And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.

My guess is playtester-made cards will be limited to Promos.

(And Courtyard?)

That's right, that was a thing.  And Dame Josephine made Counting House.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2015, 12:15:37 am »
0

Also LastFootnote came up with this card!

And that's how ghost writing entered the world of board game design.

My guess is playtester-made cards will be limited to Promos.

(And Courtyard?)

That's right, that was a thing.  And Dame Josephine made Counting House.

How about "non-inner-circle playtesters."
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2015, 03:07:34 am »
+4

Summon fact of the day: it decreases Lord Bottington's optimal solitaire session by one turn.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2015, 04:19:35 am »
+1

Seconding "Beschwörung". "Herbeizaubern" is technically correct, but sound more like "make appear" than actually summoning. I really wonder how somebody could get that wrong. Maybe they didn't see the art and thought is was more of a "call the guys together because we need to meet" summon?

"Einbestellung" would have been a good German translation, probably the one I like the most.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2015, 07:12:05 am »
0

Otherwise, this could be a really common buy, like every single turn for a while on boards with weak 5s.

Yes. But scrap that 'for a while' and 'with weak 5s'.

My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2015, 07:56:13 am »
0

My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.

Have you played any games with the final version yet?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 07:57:21 am by LastFootnote »
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2015, 08:28:22 am »
0

I've realized this is essentially a one-shot Prince. It turns a non-terminal into a village and a card like smithy essentially nets you an extra card while not eating up an action slot. Yah, this seems pretty good.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2015, 08:30:58 am »
0

I've realized this is essentially a one-shot Prince. It turns a non-terminal into a village and a card like smithy essentially nets you an extra card while not eating up an action slot. Yah, this seems pretty good.
It's just like when you reveal an Action card with Herald. So you're kind of getting +2 cards +2 actions next turn and guaranteed to have at least 1 $4 Action card to play. Not bad.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2015, 09:31:43 am »
+5

My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.

Have you played any games with the final version yet?

No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.

And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.

All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:33:00 am by -Stef- »
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2015, 09:56:33 am »
+1

My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.

Have you played any games with the final version yet?

No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.

And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.

All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.

Maybe i am crazy to question Stef, but this seems to be crazy play on a board with strong 5s and weak or situational cards under 5? Which seems like a lot of boards?

Anyway, a somewhat archaic use of the word summon in English is 'to invite.' so that accounts for the bad translation.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2015, 10:15:47 am »
+2

Anyway, a somewhat archaic use of the word summon in English is 'to invite.' so that accounts for the bad translation.

A summons is a command.  An invitation is a request.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2015, 10:16:50 am »
0

Anyway, a somewhat archaic use of the word summon in English is 'to invite.' so that accounts for the bad translation.
Also, I think "summon" is more like ordering someone to come, while the German "einladen" is used pretty much the same way as "invite".
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2015, 10:35:07 am »
+1

My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.

Have you played any games with the final version yet?

No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.

And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.

All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.

Maybe i am crazy to question Stef, but this seems to be crazy play on a board with strong 5s and weak or situational cards under 5? Which seems like a lot of boards?

Maybe I wouldn't say 90% vs. 10%, but I'm inclined to agree with Stef on this one. I'd say it's "over 50% vs. under 50%".

Every Action card in Dominion is measured against the cost of drawing it and playing it. It costs a card to draw it and a card to play it. Every deck in Dominion can be measured against how quickly it can play the cards it gains. There are cards that aren't really all that great, but become much better because of their ability to cycle your deck to play your important cards more often in the early game.

When you Summon something, you're fast-forwarding to play that card "immediately." This is so incredibly good. Some decks can be sped up as much as two or three turns just by this effect. That is so incredibly good.

Also, the first time you get to play it, you're eliminating that cost of a card and an action. This is so incredibly good. Every single card in Dominion that you can possibly Summon needs to be thought of in a different light (namely, the same light we though of cards under Prince) for a turn, for an effect you get "immediately". Prince of anything is so incredibly good, Summoning anything is so incredibly good and you can have it "immediately".

Do I sound like a broken record when I say "so incredibly good"? It's so easy to underestimate how incredibly good this effect is, particularly on the first six turns of the game.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #95 on: August 05, 2015, 10:45:53 am »
0

I proxied this card and played two games with it yesterday. I think Summon was used a total of three times. Those moments were key but obviously few and far-between.

I am absolutely not a top-level player (duh) so I tentatively think this might be one of the higher-skill cards?

forming opinions based on two games, this is always a good idea
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2015, 10:52:34 am »
0

My guess is you want to summon in more than 90% of the situations you can afford it. All game long.
And the remaining 10% is mostly consumed by boards you have only 1 buy and are in the endgame.

Have you played any games with the final version yet?

No, that's why I said 'guess'. I don't know how Donald would feel about discussing previous versions of summon here so I won't, but suffice to say I have experimented with weaker versions that I already considered very strong.

And just for clarity: I'm not saying it's a badly designed card at all. First of all it's an event, so it will be available for everyone all game. Secondly it won't make all games look the same (a la rebuild or cultist) because it makes you play with the rest of the kingdom. And finally it's a promo, so nothing wrong with being a bit spicy.

All I'm saying is that I expect to buy this event almost whenever I can. And I expect that whenever I buy this event, I will be able to afford another the next turn.

Maybe i am crazy to question Stef, but this seems to be crazy play on a board with strong 5s and weak or situational cards under 5? Which seems like a lot of boards?

Maybe I wouldn't say 90% vs. 10%, but I'm inclined to agree with Stef on this one. I'd say it's "over 50% vs. under 50%".

Every Action card in Dominion is measured against the cost of drawing it and playing it. It costs a card to draw it and a card to play it. Every deck in Dominion can be measured against how quickly it can play the cards it gains. There are cards that aren't really all that great, but become much better because of their ability to cycle your deck to play your important cards more often in the early game.

When you Summon something, you're fast-forwarding to play that card "immediately." This is so incredibly good. Some decks can be sped up as much as two or three turns just by this effect. That is so incredibly good.

Also, the first time you get to play it, you're eliminating that cost of a card and an action. This is so incredibly good. Every single card in Dominion that you can possibly Summon needs to be thought of in a different light (namely, the same light we though of cards under Prince) for a turn, for an effect you get "immediately". Prince of anything is so incredibly good, Summoning anything is so incredibly good and you can have it "immediately".

Do I sound like a broken record when I say "so incredibly good"? It's so easy to underestimate how incredibly good this effect is, particularly on the first six turns of the game.

This is a very interesting analysis. On one hand, buying Summon every time you have $5 means completely ignoring any $5s in the Kingdom. Skipping Witch, Cultist, Rebuild, Wharf, etc. On the other hand, it adds "+1 action, +1 card" to the $4 that you choose for the first time it's played (as well as playing it sooner). Meaning that the $4s become stronger, probably as good as the $5s you're skipping.

I wonder if it's weaker as an opener, with the obvious exception of gaining good trashers. One of the great advantages of gaining a card with it is that a gained terminal becomes non-terminal for the first play, and a gained non-terminal becomes a Village for the first play. But this doesn't help you on turn 2, and isn't likely to help you on turn 3 either. So part of the strength of the event isn't being utilized when you buy it in the opening. So it would become more dependent upon how good the card you gained with it is normally.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2015, 01:26:53 pm »
+2

I'm not saying that I'm an expert or anything but of the four games I played with it at GenCon:

Game One- Engine game with cheap components (Menagerie, Hamlet), I was reliably drawing my deck so it usually felt like the better move was to buy multiple components rather than summon one, or to buy $5 cards like Haunted Woods. I don't think I bought summon at all this game.

Game Two- Storyteller board with Miser and Ratcatcher for trashing, Market Square and Treasure Trove for Gold gaining. Again, whenever I had five buying more Stortellers and Treasure Troves seemed like the higher priority. I definitely didn't buy summon. I got second, but no one else used summon either.

Game Three- No +actions, I played BM/Gear. I did buy summon once, to summon a Warehouse at a moment when I knew my deck needed sifting, but it was a hard call between that and Duchy.

Game Four- Heavy engine board with Peasant, Colony, lots of other stuff. I summoned a Peasant on the second shuffle, I also put my -$2 token on Lost City and summoned that a few times. But again, a lot of the time it felt like a better move to spread out my buys between multiple components rather than summon one.

Summon seems like it's strong, but I'm not sure it's going to be an auto-buy on a lot of boards.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2015, 02:04:16 pm »
+2

Well, back when Dark Ages was playtested, people also didn't commit to Rebuild, and somehow somebody who didn't commit to Rebuild won. That failed to show committing to Rebuild wasn't a dominant strategy.
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Re: Promo Event card in Germany
« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2015, 02:08:57 pm »
+1

So, what cards would be best to use with it - probably something you want to keep, but is also good early on. Maybe Sea Hag then? Terminal cards are always good with this sort of effect too.

Transmogrify is good.

Basically any Reserve card.  Either they're terminal, or they call at the start of your turn.

Oh, right, immediately calling a card like Ratcatcher actually works. Nice.
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