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Author Topic: Something went wrong and I'm not sure why  (Read 3686 times)

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Burning Skull

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Something went wrong and I'm not sure why
« on: July 28, 2015, 05:30:09 am »
+4

I have a problem with understanding why I lost this game from our league match with yudai214.



Code: [Select]
Moat, Chancellor, Scheme, Farming Village, Worker's Village, Catacombs, Ill-Gotten Gains, Junk Dealer, Farmland, Peddler

Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150727/log.50a94f0ce4b07a80ae66d119.1438011913224.txt

The game starts at about 01:03:30 in the video


So. Look at our decks after turn 10. My opponent still has 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, meanwhile I only have two Coppers left. He has more Peddlers, yes, but is it really enough to overcome my huge advantage in trashing? Or maybe it was a mistake for me to load on Golds? Seriously, I'm a bit confused.

faust

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Re: Something went wrong and I'm not sure why
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 06:13:56 am »
+1

I think it's a couple of things.

- he had pretty good luck in the mid-game, connecting his engine pieces.
- I noticed that you overdrew your deck on a couple of turns. Your deck could have sustained three or even four additional Coppers at that point. That means that the second Junk Dealer was probably a mistake.
- eventually, his deck was better due to having more Peddlers. He won the long game; maybe you should have forced an end sooner.
- I think you could have still won on your last turn if you had discarded with your second Catacombs play (at that point, there were still two Peddlers in your deck that would have been very helpful) and trashed Scheme for Farmlands instead of Gold.
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Burning Skull

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Re: Something went wrong and I'm not sure why
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 07:52:16 am »
0

Yeah, it seems all the points you've mentioned are relevant.

I think it's mostly that
he had pretty good luck in the mid-game, connecting his engine pieces.

and that
I noticed that you overdrew your deck on a couple of turns. Your deck could have sustained three or even four additional Coppers at that point. That means that the second Junk Dealer was probably a mistake.

And yes, I could've played my last turn better, indeed.

DG

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Re: Something went wrong and I'm not sure why
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 08:21:22 am »
+3

On turn 9 you buy a catacombs, worker's village, and peddler but you are actually in a position to increase your income with gold, peddler, peddler instead. This denies a peddler and you can buy the engine components next turn or the turn after.

At the end of some turns you had a chance to play a junk dealer after emptying your hand for an extra coin but you left both a catacombs and junk dealer unplayed. Even if that just gives you an extra moat then that moat can be trashed to the junk dealer next turn.
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Re: Something went wrong and I'm not sure why
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 04:53:19 pm »
+8

I like this game/question because it's a very clean example of a fundamental dominion concept.

Playing engines like these correctly is all about finding the right balance between power and reliability.
You play very nicely until turn 9. 2nd Junk Dealer is absolutely correct.

After that unfortunately your decisions are really bad. DG already mentioned the buys I think are best on turn 9 (peddler peddler gold) and my alternative would be 3x peddler.

Why do I disagree so much with what you do?
Well, this is the point where you start drawing your deck. But you still have 4 coppers left, which will be eaten by your junk dealers. Also you have 2 schemes, so you don't have to worry about not drawing the cards in the right order. The result of this is that your reliability is now almost 100%. It's most certainly time to add power.

A 3rd peddler over a gold is a serious consideration. For you gold is clearly better - you draw it anyway. But your opponent is not set up to buy golds at all, and very much so to buy peddlers.

On turn 10 the right play would be to trash the catacombs mid-turn for a silver and buy two golds. You need power that badly. I guess that's the same point as turn 9, but the way you play it now 4(!) draws go to waste, and in your buy phase you waste another $2. Way too much reliability, balance is lost here.

Turn 11 you have $10 and buy village+gold. Silver+gold is better, same principle again. You really don't need more draw or buys!

Turn 12 I agree with double gold for $12.

Turn 13 - I think farmland gold->province, buy province is better but I'm not sure here.

Turn 14 - If you buy two farmlands and a moat (village -> farmland, gold -> province) you have 24 points to his 22.
And most importantly: the farmlands are all gone. His $12 is not so impressive without the option to farmland anything. I think you'll still win.

Turn 15 - I don't think you can win here, almost regardless of what you do / draw.
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Burning Skull

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Re: Something went wrong and I'm not sure why
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 05:27:07 pm »
0

Thanks all of you for your answers, it helped a lot.
It felt really weird to lose this game, and now I think I understand why this happened.

JacquesTheBard

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Re: Something went wrong and I'm not sure why
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 06:04:51 pm »
+1

This is really excellent. Usually commentary on engines talks about the importance of adding reliability and buys, but I don't hear much about the need for adding payload. This does a great job of balancing the discussion.
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