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Co0kieL0rd

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Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« on: July 23, 2015, 05:05:59 pm »
+7

Hello everyone!

Maybe some of you wondered what happened to severeal of the cards that I took out of my set Roots and Renewal. For those who care, here's my show space for all the cards that didn't make it into Roots and Renewal or were taken from the set due to redundancy or not fitting in. I'm also going to add new cards that aren't supposed to be in a set here. Please free to discuss or play with my cards.

Click on an image to enlarge.

                                                
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 05:22:08 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 05:33:21 pm »
0

My known opinion repeated:
I like Demagogue. It's straightforward and less likely to hit at the beginning of the game, which i think is a plus, especially on a curser you can open with.

Cabal is a very cool idea, but even though hard to do, it's possible to pin an opponent with it, which i don't like.

I also like Draft Horses, and i think they are reasonably priced. Not nearly as strong as they look on first sight.

Mediator is fine. I'm not exactly a fan of mixing tokens, but for Mediator that's basically the card's point. It seems balanced so far, and i like that it uses your own deck.

Routing still feels a bit random to me, and i think Prefect is doing a little too much at once.

Sentinel looks like it could use a little wording clean up, but honestly i have trouble coming up with something...

I think Suburb is fine. It shouldn't be stronger, is my opinion.

I think we should playtest Tollkeeper again. The last game where we did was veeeeery weird.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2015, 03:51:32 pm »
+2

Suburb seems like a decent 3$ card even without the Reaction part (which is obviously not strong enough to make the card worth 4$). Bog Village is a neat idea but I fear that nobody wants to trash Bog Village lest another player plays a Bog Village before you do and thus exploits the trashed Bog Village. Obviously this incentive problem is increasing with the number of players. One way around it might be self-synergy: buy a lot of Bog Villages in order to be able two per turn and thus convert them often enough into quasi-half-Bazaars.

Demagogue, Draft Horses, Mediator, Sentinel and Routing are simply great cards (printed all of them) and when I am gonna print further Dominion cards I will also include Tollkeeper.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 04:36:10 pm »
0

Suburb seems like a decent 3$ card even without the Reaction part (which is obviously not strong enough to make the card worth 4$). Bog Village is a neat idea but I fear that nobody wants to trash Bog Village lest another player plays a Bog Village before you do and thus exploits the trashed Bog Village. Obviously this incentive problem is increasing with the number of players. One way around it might be self-synergy: buy a lot of Bog Villages in order to be able two per turn and thus convert them often enough into quasi-half-Bazaars.

Demagogue, Draft Horses, Mediator, Sentinel and Routing are simply great cards (printed all of them) and when I am gonna print further Dominion cards I will also include Tollkeeper.

Thanks, that's nice to hear. Bog Village is merely a niche card that is supposed to add more Supply interaction to my set. But I took it out of the set because its functionalities will be covered by my Travellers Petty Lord and Warlord.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 06:53:13 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2015, 07:05:49 pm »
+5

A while ago I had this idea for a funny Black Market-ish card called Secret Society. I played a few games with it, although probably only one with the recent version that I like best.



The Secret Society deck used to consist of any action cards costing up to $5 (or $6) but that was way too swingy. With the restriction to 10 $5-cards you can play the card somewhat reliably. Like with Black Market, every player knows from the beginning of the game which cards are in the deck. What the two revealed cards are random each time. Don't take this card too seriously. It's merely a fun card. But if you love Black Market, you should give Secret Society a try.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where this picture is taken from ;)
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 04:05:51 am »
+1

A while ago I had this idea for a funny Black Market-ish card called Secret Society. I played a few games with it, although probably only one with the recent version that I like best.



The Secret Society deck used to consist of any action cards costing up to $5 (or $6) but that was way too swingy. With the restriction to 10 $5-cards you can play the card somewhat reliably. Like with Black Market, every player knows from the beginning of the game which cards are in the deck. What the two revealed cards are random each time. Don't take this card too seriously. It's merely a fun card. But if you love Black Market, you should give Secret Society a try.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where this picture is taken from ;)
I think the idea is pretty good but, ignoring your caveat of not taking the card seriously, do you think that 3$ is an appropriate price reduction for the risk of playing a moderately (you do know the Secret Society deck and you can select among two cards) random 5$ card? My hunch is that 4$ is more appropriate.
A simple way to playtest whether 3$ is too cheap is obviously to check whether starting with two Secret Societies is OK or too strong.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 04:18:34 am by tristan »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 07:28:01 am »
0

Giving Secret Society a price of $3 is pure intuition. It's a good hint I should open with two Societies in some games to see whether it should rather cost $4. I'm looking forward to it ;)
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 11:24:03 am »
+2

Here are two ideas for some nice non-attack player interaction. I haven't tested these at all but I think they should be fun :)



Dry Dock is a cheap Wharf that comes with the drawback of giving other players more actions so they can play more Dry Docks (or other terminals) themselves.



Regal Decree is like a friendly Possession; it lets you utilize another player's deck without allowing you to mess with it (at least not more than e.g. Tribute does). On the contrary, the more Regal Decrees you play, the more you potentially help your opponent. It's especially neat if you fell behind in the deck building and lost the split of some key card. Your opponent got 7 of the Grand Markets? Just play them from their deck! It's the King's Court of the deprived!

I should probably add the clause "When this leaves play, stop resolving it" to Regal Decree to avoid tracking problems with Durations and Reserves.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 11:39:12 am by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 12:33:03 pm »
0

Here are two ideas for some nice non-attack player interaction. I haven't tested these at all but I think they should be fun :)



Dry Dock is a cheap Wharf that comes with the drawback of giving other players more actions so they can play more Dry Docks (or other terminals) themselves.



Regal Decree is like a friendly Possession; it lets you utilize another player's deck without allowing you to mess with it (at least not more than e.g. Tribute does). On the contrary, the more Regal Decrees you play, the more you potentially help your opponent. It's especially neat if you fell behind in the deck building and lost the split of some key card. Your opponent got 7 of the Grand Markets? Just play them from their deck! It's the King's Court of the deprived!

I should probably add the clause "When this leaves play, stop resolving it" to Regal Decree to avoid tracking problems with Durations and Reserves.

I'd say that Dry dock is worth $4 even without the drawback. The +buy is a huge part of why Wharf is as strong as it is. As for Regal Decree, its wording is kind of confusing. I would change it to:

Regal Decree:
The player to your left reveals cards from the top of his deck until he reveals an Action card, which he then sets aside (and discards the others). Choose one: +1 Action; or, play the revealed Action three times, then set it aside again.

When this leaves play, stop resolving the set aside Action and put it into the hand of the player to your left.
Cost: $4
Action

It's pretty wordy now, though, so I might just ban Duration cards.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 12:45:25 pm »
+2

I think it would be better if Regal Decree just set aside the card and discarded it at the end of the turn. Otherwise it's just too much of a benefit to a particular player in games with more than one opponent.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2015, 01:13:14 pm »
0

Why not just give Regal Decree Band-of-Misfits–like wording?
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 01:35:11 pm »
+1

Why not just give Regal Decree Band-of-Misfits–like wording?

I can't believe I didn't think of that, especially when I even made a card before that was a Throne Room/BoM variant like Regal Decree is. So, here's a newly suggested wording, Co0kieL0rd:

Regal Decree:
The player to your left reveals cards from the top of his deck until he reveals an Action, and discards the revealed cards. Choose one: Play this three times as if it were that Action; or +1 Action. If you chose the former, this is that card until it leaves play.
Cost: $4
Action
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2015, 08:03:53 pm »
0

Two things:
First, i don't know why i never noticed this, but i don't really see why Cabal tells you to trash Turncoat. It implies the Cabal player knows what Turncoat does when trashed, but mostly it just means something else than what it says. It could just say "puts a T on top of their deck." and leave out the detour. If it had players trash cards as part of its attack, that would be different.
Did i ever complain that stacking Cabals can lock out players by always topdecking five Turncoats, letting them draw those on cleanup and repeating this? Unlikely to happen, but here i said it.

As far as "resolving" goes, Royal Carriage counts duration cards as "resolved" once their next-turn effect is set up, so i'd argue that the wording on Regal Decree to "stop resolving them" has no effect on durations (they are allready "resolved").
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2015, 02:41:38 am »
0

First of all, these ideas for non-attack player interaction are plain brilliant. As all brilliant ideas they look so simple once they are there and you wonder why nobody has yet come up with cards that only do something for you if they also help your opponent. But of course this doesn't mean that they were simple to come up with.

I'd say that Dry dock is worth $4 even without the drawback. The +buy is a huge part of why Wharf is as strong as it is.
Wharf is one of the strongest 5$ cards. Of course you are totally right that the extra buy is not trivial but its absence certainly doesn't justify a price of 4$. Such a card would easily be (one of) the strongest 4$ card(s).

Quote
As for Regal Decree, its wording is kind of confusing. I would change it to:
Regal Decree:
The player to your left reveals cards from the top of his deck until he reveals an Action card, which he then sets aside (and discards the others). Choose one: +1 Action; or, play the revealed Action three times, then set it aside again.

When this leaves play, stop resolving the set aside Action and put it into the hand of the player to your left.
Cost: $4
Action

It's pretty wordy now, though, so I might just ban Duration cards.
For tracking this is definitely better but it comes at the cost of handsize attacks being weaker for the active player. As I doubt that nobody would buy a handsize attack if that can be used against himself via Regal Degree this is probably not a big issue.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 02:43:58 am by tristan »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2015, 05:43:57 am »
0

First of all, these ideas for non-attack player interaction are plain brilliant. As all brilliant ideas they look so simple once they are there and you wonder why nobody has yet come up with cards that only do something for you if they also help your opponent. But of course this doesn't mean that they were simple to come up with.

I'd say that Dry dock is worth $4 even without the drawback. The +buy is a huge part of why Wharf is as strong as it is.
Wharf is one of the strongest 5$ cards. Of course you are totally right that the extra buy is not trivial but its absence certainly doesn't justify a price of 4$. Such a card would easily be (one of) the strongest 4$ card(s).

Thanks man! I also think the on-play effect alone would be too strong for $4 and good for $5. The +buy on top of that is what makes Wharf OP.

Why not just give Regal Decree Band-of-Misfits–like wording?

I can't believe I didn't think of that, especially when I even made a card before that was a Throne Room/BoM variant like Regal Decree is. So, here's a newly suggested wording, Co0kieL0rd:

Regal Decree:
The player to your left reveals cards from the top of his deck until he reveals an Action, and discards the revealed cards. Choose one: Play this three times as if it were that Action; or +1 Action. If you chose the former, this is that card until it leaves play.
Cost: $4
Action

This looks like it would work but I'm afraid there's most certainly some edge case where this causes problems (as come naturally with this kind of card). I have to think about it but thank you for the suggestion.

As far as "resolving" goes, Royal Carriage counts duration cards as "resolved" once their next-turn effect is set up, so i'd argue that the wording on Regal Decree to "stop resolving them" has no effect on durations (they are allready "resolved").

Well, I think resolving them includes their next turn effect and anything that was initiated by playing the card. Or did Donald say otherwise?

First, i don't know why i never noticed this, but i don't really see why Cabal tells you to trash Turncoat. It implies the Cabal player knows what Turncoat does when trashed, but mostly it just means something else than what it says. It could just say "puts a T on top of their deck." and leave out the detour. If it had players trash cards as part of its attack, that would be different.
Did i ever complain that stacking Cabals can lock out players by always topdecking five Turncoats, letting them draw those on cleanup and repeating this? Unlikely to happen, but here i said it.

When you trash a Turncoat, you always put it on top of your deck. Players should get used to this feature faster when they are instructed by Cabal to trash it. You can argue this wording isn't elegant but I like it. Or is there another issue with it I'm missing?
A Cabal pin has been mentioned at least twice, once even by you (while playtesting, I believe). I think this is very unlikely to ever happen, like a Bureaucrat pin. If it happens more frequently, I'll limit it to other players with 4 or more cards in hand.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2015, 08:26:41 am »
+1

As far as "resolving" goes, Royal Carriage counts duration cards as "resolved" once their next-turn effect is set up, so i'd argue that the wording on Regal Decree to "stop resolving them" has no effect on durations (they are allready "resolved").

Well, I think resolving them includes their next turn effect and anything that was initiated by playing the card. Or did Donald say otherwise?

The instruction manual says otherwise. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to use Royal Carriages on Durations until the final turn in which they do stuff.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2015, 01:57:31 pm »
0

As far as "resolving" goes, Royal Carriage counts duration cards as "resolved" once their next-turn effect is set up, so i'd argue that the wording on Regal Decree to "stop resolving them" has no effect on durations (they are allready "resolved").

Well, I think resolving them includes their next turn effect and anything that was initiated by playing the card. Or did Donald say otherwise?

The instruction manual says otherwise. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to use Royal Carriages on Durations until the final turn in which they do stuff.

Dangit! Why did he make this so complicated? Anyway, I'm gonna think about a different wording. Your suggestion looks pretty good, though.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2015, 07:41:32 pm »
0

King's courting an opposing action is quite strong at 4 cost. Might be correct to skip actions entirely on boards with Regal Decree.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 07:47:27 pm by dedicateddan »
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2015, 08:03:23 pm »
+2

I think you could make Royal decree a throne room and still have it pretty viable most of the time. The fact that it's using up only one card from your hand is pretty neat, and gives you the same net advantage as king's court (one free action play out of nowhere). Pro is you don't have to connect it with your other actions, cons are you have no control over what kind of stuff you get to play.
The free card to the opponent is unfair to the other opponents, so I'd mercilessly take it away, and I'd even consider streamlining away the choice of +Action. I think the card will probably be good enough without it, and it simplifies a lot the chains you might get when hitting an opponent's Decree - you don't have to remember what Decrees are +Actions and what are Throne rooms. (I'm not sure I'd want it to be possible to hit Decrees at all, since it could be swingy as hell - play one card, hit opponent's Decree, now your card is 4 cards. Hit another Decree, now it's 6 cards, and that's just crazy, and each hit makes it more likely that you'll branch out more, possibly ending up playing each of your opponent's Actions twice, just by playing one Action card. Next play, you hit Secret Chamber. Big deal.)

I really love the idea.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2015, 08:42:26 pm »
+1

I think you could make Royal decree a throne room and still have it pretty viable most of the time. The fact that it's using up only one card from your hand is pretty neat, and gives you the same net advantage as king's court (one free action play out of nowhere). Pro is you don't have to connect it with your other actions, cons are you have no control over what kind of stuff you get to play.
The free card to the opponent is unfair to the other opponents, so I'd mercilessly take it away, and I'd even consider streamlining away the choice of +Action. I think the card will probably be good enough without it, and it simplifies a lot the chains you might get when hitting an opponent's Decree - you don't have to remember what Decrees are +Actions and what are Throne rooms. (I'm not sure I'd want it to be possible to hit Decrees at all, since it could be swingy as hell - play one card, hit opponent's Decree, now your card is 4 cards. Hit another Decree, now it's 6 cards, and that's just crazy, and each hit makes it more likely that you'll branch out more, possibly ending up playing each of your opponent's Actions twice, just by playing one Action card. Next play, you hit Secret Chamber. Big deal.)

I really love the idea.

Thank you, these are all very good points. Following several suggestions, the wording could be as follows:

Quote
The player to your left reveals and discards cards from the top of their deck until discarding an Action card other than Regal Decree. You may play this three times as if it was that Action card. If you do, this is that card until it leaves play.

EDIT: Oops, of course I meant to say, you play this three times as if it was that Action card.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 11:02:23 am by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2015, 10:40:14 am »
0

The new wording looks great! Playing an action from your opponents deck is balanced at 4 and leads to interesting interactions
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2016, 08:20:30 pm »
+2

Here's a small update. In games using fan cards that include Looters I like to shuffle my own Ruins cards into the total set of existing Ruins before adding a portion of them to the supply. I just recently made some high-res images for them and here they are:

      

I've used them a lot and they work nicely. Obviously, most of the time they get trashed anyway but sometimes players can use their effect for a small advantage. Like official Ruins, mine aren't totally equal in power. Starveling's + is particularly useful for spiking a hand when needed. Collapsed Tower may just be the best thing in a game with cursers and looters and without trashers. And you can always get rid of Smoldering somehow.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 08:45:47 am by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2016, 08:52:25 pm »
+1

Just sharing some insight i think we talked about recently: If it's early enough in the game and you have a spare buy, you can get yourself a Curse with Collapsed Tower in hand just to get rid of it. While that sounds bad at first, it's actually not a worse point swing than trashing an Estate. I'm not sure that's what CL intended, although it's nice to know - especially because it means there's at least this you can do in a game without both Cursers and Ruins. Incidentally, i can't recall playing a game with both against you.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 09:43:12 pm »
+2

On an aesthetic note, shouldn't Collapsed Tower be half-blue/half-brown?
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2016, 09:48:29 pm »
0

On an aesthetic note, shouldn't Collapsed Tower be half-blue/half-brown?

I could neither find nor make a good blue-brown template, unfortunately.
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Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept
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