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Author Topic: Co0kieL0rd's other cards  (Read 13586 times)

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Deadlock39

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2016, 10:36:14 am »
+1

I think it will be interesting more often than it causes a stall. There are a lot of ways to manipulate your hand, so any engine that has a way to discard cards will have to play to it. There may also be a way to only green on your last turn, which gets around it. 

You'll have to see if you think the interesting interactions are good enough to accept the situation on boards with a strong deck-draw engine that needs to green over multiple turns and can't get dead cards out of the hand.

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2016, 02:59:01 pm »
0

Guest of Honor might work as a Gathering card. I was thinking along those lines:

Quote
Guest of Honor, $4, Action, Reserve, Gathering
Take 2 VP from the Guest of Honor Supply pile. Put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this, to discard any number of cards; +1 Card and add 1 VP to the Guest of Honor Supply pile per card discarded.

I think it would be interesting to combine these two concepts; the limited number of VP you can take per play should give all players a chance (not only the first player) to reap gathered VP as well as incentivize players to gain multiple copies of Guest of Honor so they can both play and call GoHs each shuffle. I don't think the number of players or turn order is going to be an issue here. But I'm not sure about GoH's power level as it is a very slow card and 2 VP per play isn't much and apart from that it's a semi-terminal Cellar for $4.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2016, 09:14:23 pm »
+2


... we recently played one of the recommended kingdoms, where you could pick up multiple Peddlers with Talisman, after making them cheap enough through Chariot Race. ...


Ooh, that was me, too. XD

I like the idea behind Guest of Honor, but I agree that it needs some tweaking. Perhaps there could be a collaboration to test the newest idea...

And volcano struck me as completely new from the moment of conception -- well, slightly after that, once it was spoken aloud -- and I think there is room to expand on that idea further, but gently
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2016, 07:10:39 am »
+1


... we recently played one of the recommended kingdoms, where you could pick up multiple Peddlers with Talisman, after making them cheap enough through Chariot Race. ...


Ooh, that was me, too. XD

I like the idea behind Guest of Honor, but I agree that it needs some tweaking. Perhaps there could be a collaboration to test the newest idea...

And volcano struck me as completely new from the moment of conception -- well, slightly after that, once it was spoken aloud -- and I think there is room to expand on that idea further, but gently

I get yer message ;) We should play some games with our cards again soon.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2016, 09:31:18 pm »
0

Any chance you will put up an improved guest of honor soon? I'd like to print it in my next batch.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2016, 09:34:38 pm »
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Any chance you will put up an improved guest of honor soon? I'd like to print it in my next batch.

I tested it in its current gathering form and it wasn't very compelling. I don't recommend using it yet.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2016, 06:41:57 am »
0

Any chance you will put up an improved guest of honor soon? I'd like to print it in my next batch.

I tested it in its current gathering form and it wasn't very compelling. I don't recommend using it yet.
K thanks! Print it off in my next next batch.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2016, 10:30:35 am »
0

Just tead through the entire topic, as I have ignored it thus far, but maybe if one were to go for royal decree, he/she should ignore looters as well. Playing it and getting stuck with, say, ruined village (thus making royal decree a necropolis) would definitely be one of the most annoying things that could happen
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2016, 03:47:23 pm »
0

Just looked at Royal Decree again, and though it isn't exactly political because you can't choose who the benefit happens to, it can give a big advantage to the player on the left of the Royal Decree player. Then I thought of a more neutral version:

Quote
Neutral Royal Decree
Cost 4 - Action.
Each other player reveals cards from their deck until revealing an action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. Then do this 3 times: Choose one: Resolve one of the revealed action cards or +1 action.
A side effect of this wording is that you can choose +1 Action more than once, but that shouldn't be a problem since the effect needs to be very strong to be worth the advantage you give to the other players (as it is).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 03:49:57 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2016, 05:20:00 pm »
+1

Just looked at Royal Decree again, and though it isn't exactly political because you can't choose who the benefit happens to, it can give a big advantage to the player on the left of the Royal Decree player. Then I thought of a more neutral version:

Quote
Neutral Royal Decree
Cost 4 - Action.
Each other player reveals cards from their deck until revealing an action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. Then do this 3 times: Choose one: Resolve one of the revealed action cards or +1 action.
A side effect of this wording is that you can choose +1 Action more than once, but that shouldn't be a problem since the effect needs to be very strong to be worth the advantage you give to the other players (as it is).

That's an interesting idea. I would just change the last clause to "Choose one: resolve one of the revealed action cards three times; or +1 action." Otherwise, Regal Decree would become an optional Crossroads which is not the intention of the card. The +1 Action is merely a consolation for a dud, not meant as a true alternative.

Just tead through the entire topic, as I have ignored it thus far, but maybe if one were to go for royal decree, he/she should ignore looters as well. Playing it and getting stuck with, say, ruined village (thus making royal decree a necropolis) would definitely be one of the most annoying things that could happen

Do you mean it should ignore Ruins when revealing cards from your opponents' decks? I think it absolutely shouldn't. Looters influence a lot of other cards and some of them may become more or less viable with Ruins lying around. Regal Decree is weakened by Ruins, so it's riskier to buy it but you can go for it anyway.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2016, 05:31:59 pm »
0

Just tead through the entire topic, as I have ignored it thus far, but maybe if one were to go for royal decree, he/she should ignore looters as well. Playing it and getting stuck with, say, ruined village (thus making royal decree a necropolis) would definitely be one of the most annoying things that could happen

Do you mean it should ignore Ruins when revealing cards from your opponents' decks? I think it absolutely shouldn't. Looters influence a lot of other cards and some of them may become more or less viable with Ruins lying around. Regal Decree is weakened by Ruins, so it's riskier to buy it but you can go for it anyway.
That was not the point of my post, it was simply an interesting interaction that I felt was worth pointing out, and I was saying that, in my opinion, the risk wasn't worth the reward. Others might disagree, and that is totally fine. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
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tristan

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #61 on: July 04, 2016, 05:21:14 am »
0

I think that Regal Degree is too strong. I suggest nerfing it to to a Throne Room:

"Choose a player. He reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing an Action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. Play the revealed Action card twice (this is that card until it leaves play)."

I think that choosing a player gives you more flexibility. I am not sure about the rules but I think that the "this is that card until it leaves play" wording would imply that if you hit a Duration card Regal Degree stays in play. Not sure whether the "resolve" wording implies this as well.
I don't think that the Ruined Village option is strictly necessary. Sure, it hedges against the risk of hitting an Action you don't wanna play but isn't that part of the fun of digging for actions via Herald and Golem?

The main change is changing this from a TR to a KC. You get to Throne a card without having to have the card in your hand but the liability is that the other player draws that very card. So basically both players get a card. OK in 2P games, mildly good in 3+P games.
You could of course argue that there is a downside to Regal Degree, namely the risk of hitting an action you do not necessarily wanna play/throne. But I guess that this is more or less compensated via the free-riding this card provides, i.e. you can buy Regal Degrees instead of expensive Action cards.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2016, 06:52:08 am »
0

I think that Regal Degree is too strong. I suggest nerfing it to to a Throne Room:

"Choose a player. He reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing an Action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. Play the revealed Action card twice (this is that card until it leaves play)."

I think that choosing a player gives you more flexibility. I am not sure about the rules but I think that the "this is that card until it leaves play" wording would imply that if you hit a Duration card Regal Degree stays in play. Not sure whether the "resolve" wording implies this as well.
I don't think that the Ruined Village option is strictly necessary. Sure, it hedges against the risk of hitting an Action you don't wanna play but isn't that part of the fun of digging for actions via Herald and Golem?

The main change is changing this from a TR to a KC. You get to Throne a card without having to have the card in your hand but the liability is that the other player draws that very card. So basically both players get a card. OK in 2P games, mildly good in 3+P games.
You could of course argue that there is a downside to Regal Degree, namely the risk of hitting an action you do not necessarily wanna play/throne. But I guess that this is more or less compensated via the free-riding this card provides, i.e. you can buy Regal Degrees instead of expensive Action cards.

Regal Decree is a very swingy card that you play at the risk of it being a total dud. This is why I think the reward should be much higher than usual lest it is unplayable. Compare with Tribute which is already a bad card but unless it hits two actions at least it gives you something. Regal Decree literally gives you nothing if it hits the wrong card. Why would you want a highly inconsistent Throne Room with only a marginal benefit you can't even influence for the same price as a Throne Room?
I prefer the play-it-three-times version because it makes a bigger difference but maybe it should cost $5. I haven't tested it in a long time. Please feel free to play with any version you find appropriate.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2016, 07:02:00 am »
0

How can regal decree hit 'nothing' if the opponent keeps drawing until he draws an action card?

In the case where he has no action cards in his deck or when all of his action cards are in his hand? Ok, sure; don't buy the card if that risk is high?

Or am I missing something?
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2016, 08:34:16 am »
0

I think that Regal Degree is too strong. I suggest nerfing it to to a Throne Room:

"Choose a player. He reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing an Action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. Play the revealed Action card twice (this is that card until it leaves play)."

I think that choosing a player gives you more flexibility. I am not sure about the rules but I think that the "this is that card until it leaves play" wording would imply that if you hit a Duration card Regal Degree stays in play. Not sure whether the "resolve" wording implies this as well.
I don't think that the Ruined Village option is strictly necessary. Sure, it hedges against the risk of hitting an Action you don't wanna play but isn't that part of the fun of digging for actions via Herald and Golem?

The main change is changing this from a TR to a KC. You get to Throne a card without having to have the card in your hand but the liability is that the other player draws that very card. So basically both players get a card. OK in 2P games, mildly good in 3+P games.
You could of course argue that there is a downside to Regal Degree, namely the risk of hitting an action you do not necessarily wanna play/throne. But I guess that this is more or less compensated via the free-riding this card provides, i.e. you can buy Regal Degrees instead of expensive Action cards.

Regal Decree is a very swingy card that you play at the risk of it being a total dud. This is why I think the reward should be much higher than usual lest it is unplayable. Compare with Tribute which is already a bad card but unless it hits two actions at least it gives you something. Regal Decree literally gives you nothing if it hits the wrong card.
I don't get the comparison with Tribute. Tribute reveals cards and provides vanilla bonuses conditional upon what card types have been revealed whereas Regal Degree digs for an action in an opponent's deck and KCs it. The only risk is that you don't know which card you will hit for but you also have that risk with Golem and I wouldn't label Golem bad.

Sure, normally you throne your good actions. But the large majority of actions are incredibly strong when you KC them. All those terminal silvers now provide +6$ and even a lousy 2$ cantrip with a little bonus like Pearl Diver become double Lost Cities when you KC it (OK, the opponent also draws the Pearl Diver).
So while I agree that Regal Degree is swingy I totally disagree with your assessment that it can be a total dud ... except in Ruins games. And even then it doesn't "literally give you nothing". +3 Cards is worth 4$, +3$ is worth around 5$ and +3 Actions is worth around 2$. You seem to seriously underestimate the power of KC combined with even weak actions.
 

Quote
Why would you want a highly inconsistent Throne Room with only a marginal benefit you can't even influence for the same price as a Throne Room?
The dowside is that you don't know which action you will hit whereas the upside is that you can freeride if an opponent goes for expensive actions.
The only problem I see is that the very presence of Regal Degree disincentives to buy Actions in the first place. But that incentive effect is stronger if Regal Degree is a KC instead of a TR variant.

By the way, I like the card immensly. I just fail to see how a KC variant can cost 4$ or 5$.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2016, 11:19:15 am »
0

Regal Decree is a very swingy card that you play at the risk of it being a total dud. This is why I think the reward should be much higher than usual lest it is unplayable. Compare with Tribute which is already a bad card but unless it hits two actions at least it gives you something. Regal Decree literally gives you nothing if it hits the wrong card. Why would you want a highly inconsistent Throne Room with only a marginal benefit you can't even influence for the same price as a Throne Room?

Regal Decree is at least as good as Throne Room in my opinion. Unlike with TR, you'll practically never draw Regal Decree without a target. Yes sure, if on turn 3, your opponent has all his actions in hand, then yes. But really, is TR any better on turn 3? The fact that you cannot choose what to resolve with it just barely makes up for the fact you will practically always get something from it. Also, don't forget about the fact that Regal Decree does not cost you that additional card in hand TR takes. The unreliability later weakens it, but on the other hand it's loads better at the start of the game.

What i really don't like about the card is the player interaction. Having your opening buy discarded feels horribly frustrating, and if you go with the other option, putting it in the player's hand, it's just a directed help (which i think is even more obviously unfair). I'm just asking myself, why doesn't this simply reveal cards from your own deck?

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2016, 04:55:30 pm »
0

Okay, Regal Decree is probably too strong, underpriced and difficult to design and balance well. I think I had a game with it where it was not good (but no Ruins involved) and my opinion got warped by that experience. It might be okay at $5 and should probably be less political in games with 3+ players but there are so many ways to change the card. I'm glad you like the card, tristan, but I don't know what's the best way to change it and it's currently at a very low priority since it's not part of any of my sets. When I'm working on Dominion cards, there are lots of things that are more important to me right now. Regal Decree is particularly awkward since it's so hard to balance. But I encourage you to play with the card in any version that you like and you think works well. I'm happy to hear how it performed :)
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #67 on: July 06, 2016, 07:00:42 pm »
+1

Here's another version/suggestion:
Quote
Royal Decree
$4 (or $5?) cost - Action
Each other player reveals cards from their deck until revealing an action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. You may choose one of the revealed action cards and resolve it three times. If you don't, +1 Action and each other player discards their revealed action card.
I added the last part because it would really suck for the person who played the card if they gave another player a significant benefit when he just gets +1 Action. Like if the revealed card was a Forager and you don't want to be forced to trash the province in your hand.

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2016, 08:48:25 pm »
+1

Here's another version/suggestion:
Quote
Royal Decree
$4 (or $5?) cost - Action
Each other player reveals cards from their deck until revealing an action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. You may choose one of the revealed action cards and resolve it three times. If you don't, +1 Action and each other player discards their revealed action card.
I added the last part because it would really suck for the person who played the card if they gave another player a significant benefit when he just gets +1 Action. Like if the revealed card was a Forager and you don't want to be forced to trash the province in your hand.

I think I like thsi version best.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2016, 09:13:46 pm »
+1

Here's another version/suggestion:
Quote
Royal Decree
$4 (or $5?) cost - Action
Each other player reveals cards from their deck until revealing an action card. They put it into their hand and discard the rest. You may choose one of the revealed action cards and resolve it three times. If you don't, +1 Action and each other player discards their revealed action card.
I added the last part because it would really suck for the person who played the card if they gave another player a significant benefit when he just gets +1 Action. Like if the revealed card was a Forager and you don't want to be forced to trash the province in your hand.

I think I like thsi version best.

I think it's excessive. I agree with the other comments that you seem to be devalueing how good it is to play an action card 3 times. Even for a bad action, 3 times makes it pretty darn good. Choosing to take +1 action instead is going to be so rare that it doesn't seem worth it to have on the card. Yes, if you hit a Chapel or something then it will be unfortunate for you. But that's part of the luck of the card. This card is a whole lot like Golem that finds 3 actions instead of 2. And it costs less.
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2016, 11:29:54 pm »
0

I'll test it at $5 cost then.

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2016, 07:26:45 am »
0

So, this is boring old Asper, but is it out of the question to do something like this for $5?

"Reveal cards from the top of your deck until revealing an Action card. Play it twice."

Edit: Gendo's post about Golem is really noteworthy. Golem reduces the risk to get only terminals, but also requires two cards and costs incredibly much. So maybe $5 isn't even enough? IT would probably be a bit too similar, though.

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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2016, 09:37:29 am »
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Edit: Gendo's post about Golem is really noteworthy. Golem reduces the risk to get only terminals, but also requires two cards and costs incredibly much. So maybe $5 isn't even enough? IT would probably be a bit too similar, though.

There's the consideration that it comes with a "each opponent draws a card", and not only a card, the next action they have. So that helps balance against Golem too, though I have no idea by how much. I just think mainly that the option to get +1 action instead of playing the card adds a lot of words and complexity to the card, and it's not an option that will be chosen often at all.

As for your card idea, I'm pretty sure that it's only slightly less powerful than Golem on average; and possibly exactly as powerful as Golem. So it could probably cost $4P.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 09:40:09 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2016, 04:43:09 am »
0

I have printes Secret Society. What I wonder is: why does it only cost $3, causing you to be able to buy 2 of them with opening buys and direct access to $5 cards?

$4 seems more reasonable, no?
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Re: Co0kieL0rd's other cards
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2016, 11:23:30 am »
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I have printes Secret Society. What I wonder is: why does it only cost $3, causing you to be able to buy 2 of them with opening buys and direct access to $5 cards?

$4 seems more reasonable, no?

Uh, because it's so unreliable, I guess. I thought $3 was appropriate back then. It's probably just as good at $4 and not being normally able to open with two of them is good reason to increase the cost to $4, probably. Anyway, glad you seem to like the card :)
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Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept
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