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[mail-mi]

Discussing about the Pre-Game phase, including the PRs and the Pre-Game Votes, in a public topic (eg. the game itself, the Queue) is strictly forbidden, however, the Mafia has Daytalk, and are allowed and encouraged to discuss their PR choices and votes.

Also, is this necessary? I have a strong dislike for posting restrictions and don't think they belong in a normal game.

Well, I think just restricting talking about who you voted for, because you could solve the whole set up. Is that okay?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Vote claiming is really good for town, easy to catch scum in a lie.  If it's allowed, it changes scum's best voting strategy, but then the game could swing so much on how people vote and who rolls scum... 

@Mail-mi: I'm kind of fascinated by this game even though I don't want to play.  The mechanics are neat, I can't stop thinking about them.  I've never modded or co-modded anything before and I don't know the flavor at all, but if you want I could help out with co-modding.  I like the idea of modding a game someday and it would be nice to get in some practice helping.  Given my previous site-flake and lack of experience I'd understand if you don't want me of course, no offense taken.  But I'll probably be watching closely anyway.

[mail-mi]

Vote claiming is really good for town, easy to catch scum in a lie.  If it's allowed, it changes scum's best voting strategy, but then the game could swing so much on how people vote and who rolls scum... 

@Mail-mi: I'm kind of fascinated by this game even though I don't want to play.  The mechanics are neat, I can't stop thinking about them.  I've never modded or co-modded anything before and I don't know the flavor at all, but if you want I could help out with co-modding.  I like the idea of modding a game someday and it would be nice to get in some practice helping.  Given my previous site-flake and lack of experience I'd understand if you don't want me of course, no offense taken.  But I'll probably be watching closely anyway.

Exactly. I think I'm going to disallow vote claiming but allow everything else.

Definitely! Co-modding is the only way to get experience after all.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Cool!  Looking forward to it then.

[Ghacob]

/in

Is pre-game strategy discussion allowed?

Pre game as in before the game starts of pre game as in the pre game phase described above?

Before the game starts.

I would definitely like to ask about strategy discussion in pre-pregame, i.e. now


As

[mail-mi]

/in

Is pre-game strategy discussion allowed?

Pre game as in before the game starts of pre game as in the pre game phase described above?

Before the game starts.

I would definitely like to ask about strategy discussion in pre-pregame, i.e. now


As

Well, that's obviously allowed, as the game has yet to start.

[scott_pilgrim]

/tag

I agree with faust, for some reason the posting restriction really ruins the purity of the game to me.  It would be a lot better if there was a good way to do it without having restrictions.

I don't really understand the idea of the pre-game voting from a design perspective though.  Isn't it basically just random who votes for whom?  Or I guess the idea is that mafia will want to vote for each other, so it's a little better than random for them?

[Ghacob]

/in

Is pre-game strategy discussion allowed?

Pre game as in before the game starts of pre game as in the pre game phase described above?

Before the game starts.

I would definitely like to ask about strategy discussion in pre-pregame, i.e. now


As

Well, that's obviously allowed, as the game has yet to start.

Congratulations! This game is both easily broken and the posting restriction does literally nothing!

[silverspawn]

I'm not sure if I have a problem with the posting restriction, but I'm also not a big fan of blind WIFOM, especially if it has the all or nothing aspect. Like, two players select cop and both get 1 vote - awesome. 3 players select cop - now we have nothing. game might very well decided by that. meh.

[Ghacob]

What if this process was randomized?

Maybe some simple rules like mafia should vote for eachother and not be friendly neighbor... hmm

I'll return with some results

[2.71828.....]

So.....we start this game and finish it in what.....20 years?

But love the books.  Wish I could play but just don't have time right now

/tag

[2.71828.....]

when does book three come out anyway?  I just really feel like Brandon Sanderson needs to quit all his other books and just focus on these. 

[Ghacob]

Just had one trial where I had everyone choose a random role, and then have everyone but mafia vote a random player, mafia distributing one vote each amongst themselves. Although it could probably be refined by giving mafia only a select of the roles, even perhaps by letting them choose their roles/vote distributions? this gives you an idea I guess

Mafia:
2 shot tracker
2 shot redirector
2 shot jailkeeper
Town:
1 shot commuter
1 shot commuter
1 shot rolecop
1 shot mystic
2 shot desperado
6 VTs

A big plus to this I see is removing vote meta, although that too could be fixed by only randomizing votes and letting everyone make their own choices, that's a thought

[mail-mi]

when does book three come out anyway?  I just really feel like Brandon Sanderson needs to quit all his other books and just focus on these.

If he does that they'd actually come out slower than they do now. He jumps from book to book to refresh himself so he keeps chugging out books all the time, faster than any other fantasy author that I know of.

[EgorK]

/in

[faust]

Exactly. I think I'm going to disallow vote claiming but allow everything else.

Well, posting restrictions can always be played around. I can say "I would definitely vote for a strong player" and then "I think ashersky is a strong player". I haven't vote claimed, have I? BBut everyone knows who I voted for.

[mail-mi]

Do people not like the set up? I can choose a different one if that's what people prefer.

[mail-mi]

Exactly. I think I'm going to disallow vote claiming but allow everything else.

Well, posting restrictions can always be played around. I can say "I would definitely vote for a strong player" and then "I think ashersky is a strong player". I haven't vote claimed, have I? BBut everyone knows who I voted for.

That's why it and now I would disallow any discussion of pre-game votes .

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Okay, so I don't want to distract from the thread, but would it be worth thinking out loud and discussing optimal strategies in thread?  Would that help or hurt the game?

And Mail-mi, would having a discussion about optimal strategies in-thread now help figure out if slight rules changes would make things smoother?

(I'm not claiming to have game-theoried this whole thing out myself, I find that's always easier when I get in a fight with someone about it.)

[chairs]

I think the appropriate vote choice is to vote for chairs.

/in

I'm still not sold that removing the posting restriction entirely is a "bad thing" necessarily, but I don't mind playing with it in place.

[mail-mi]

Okay, so I don't want to distract from the thread, but would it be worth thinking out loud and discussing optimal strategies in thread?  Would that help or hurt the game?

And Mail-mi, would having a discussion about optimal strategies in-thread now help figure out if slight rules changes would make things smoother?

Yeah, maybe...

Do people want to change the set up?

[gkrieg13]

I think the setup is interesting, but there is no promise that it will be balanced imho.

[mail-mi]

I could do a Donald's Greater Idea Mafia 2. That I can at least reroll the set up to have some promise of some semblance of balance.

[silverspawn]

well I don't like the setup very much for the reason I explained earlier, so, yeah, changing it sounds good.

[mail-mi]

SET UP HAS BEEN CHANGED.

This is now Donald's Greater Idea Mafia 2.