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Co0kieL0rd

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A Traveller with 2 different routes
« on: July 13, 2015, 05:03:34 pm »
+2

I want to make a Traveller which can be exchanged for 2 different higher stages and came up with these 5 cards that are complementary to each other. There are two different Traveller chains interlocked here: Petty Lord > Protector > Savior, and Petty Lord > Robber Knight > Warlord. They can only be exchanged under certain conditions which shouldn't be too hard to meet as the cards in the chain help with that. There's five of each of Petty Lord's upgrades, just like with Page and Peasant.
Some of them interact with the trash and/or the Supply so they would fit my set pretty well. But I realise a Traveller chain is one of the hardest things in Dominion to balance and implement and requires a lot of playtesting. I would welcome any help and suggestions.

Click on an image to enlarge.

            

Quote
Petty Lord, $4, Action/ Traveller
+1 Card. +1 Action. Return a card from the trash to the Supply. If it costs $0, +$1.
At the start of Clean-up this turn, you may choose one: if there is at least 1 Victory card in the trash, exchange this for a Protector; or, if there are no cards in your hand, exchange this for a Robber Knight.

Quote
Robber Knight, $5*, Action/ Attack/ Looter/ Traveller
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand. If you trashed exactly 2, gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Ruins.
When you discard this from play, if there are at least half as many empty Supply piles as there are players (rounded down), you may exchange this for a Warlord. (This is not in the Supply.)

Quote
Warlord, $7*, Action/ Attack
+4 Cards. Trash a non-Victory card from the Supply. Each other player with 5 or more cards in their hand reveals their hand and discards a card costing the same as the trashed card. Then each other player discards down to 3 cards in their hand. (This is not in the Supply.)

Quote
Protector, $5*, Action/ Traveller
Reveal up to 4 cards from your hand. +$1 for each differently named card revealed.
When you discard this from play, if there are at least twice as many Ruins in the trash as there are players, you may exchange it for a Savior. (This is not in the Supply.)

Quote
Savior, $7*, Action
Do this twice: Name a card and reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the named card, then put it into your hand and discard the rest. (This is not in the Supply.)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 07:39:35 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Spellbound

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 03:26:50 am »
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Warlord is the worst enemy against Big Money and Engine that rely on vary costed key cards. Luckily it can be stopped from ever be gained by Petty Lord, which is a huge waste of time because reverse trashing Ruins doesn't give cards. I think it is okay.
If spammed though, OP as hell, since you are then likely to know what everyone has. I really doubt that it is hard to gain a mass of Warlords.
Playing 6 of them is a guaranteed pin on a player. If the deck draws themselves, gg.

Robber Knight is okay if considered singly. But I think gaining Gold is a bit much since this card can also gain Warlord.

Savior is good as Treasure Golem, so so as Golem, and worse if your opponent is spamming Warlords. If no one is playing Warlord, it is a really good money + cycling card.

I would nerf Warlord so bad and keep others the same. Overall, it sounds fun and offers a lot of choice to the board.


Edit : I misread Warlords lol, now I think it is ok.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 09:58:39 am by Spellbound »
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faust

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 03:53:55 am »
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Petty Lord allows potentially infinite games with Bishop the same way Fortress does. I would definitely look into that combo, especially with gainers. It may be broken.

Robber Knight is pretty meh. I mean, it's either "trash 1 card", which is a super-weak Trade Route, or some kind of worse Trading Post (actually considering that, I feel like the flavor should be something with Trade). So a weak trasher that you can't even get on T1/T2. I doubt you will ever choose not to exchange it if you can.

Warlord is strong. Maybe too strong to be fun, because if I have two of them, I can turn it into a targetted discard (first reveal hand, then choose the right price). There's a reason Pillage is a one-shot. "Trash a card from the supply" feels a bit tacked on, when it would be enough to just name it. I guess it makes for a combo with Petty Lord. But self-combos aren't that hot.

Protector is very strong as in an engine, it will almost always be terminal $4, which is better than Harvest or Merchant Ship (both 5s).

Savior's concept I think has been discussed a lot here and was always deemed broken. I play Savior, naming King's Court/Torturer. That's no fun. Even worse is the fact that it always has a Village available (Petty Lord).

Lastly, I believe that the upgrading line for Robber Knight/Warlord is brokenly swingy. Because in a Shelters game, I can upgrade Petty Lord to Robber Knight and trash an Overgrown Estate. This results in a Victory card in the trash that can never be removed and thus blocks all other players from ever gaining cards from this line.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2015, 05:26:07 am »
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Protector: how would you ever have a situation when you discard it from play with cards in your hand?  It'll be discarded during clean-up, and the order of clean-up is entirely up to the player, so they would always discard their hand first if this was in play?
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2015, 07:11:35 am »
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Thanks for the feedback. I was expecting some issues but couldn't nail them down.

Warlord is the worst enemy against Big Money and Engine that rely on vary costed key cards. Luckily it can be stopped from ever be gained by Petty Lord, which is a huge waste of time because reverse trashing Ruins doesn't give cards. I think it is okay.
If spammed though, OP as hell, since you are then likely to know what everyone has. I really doubt that it is hard to gain a mass of Warlords.
Playing 6 of them is a guaranteed pin on a player. If the deck draws themselves, gg.

I would nerf Warlord so bad and keep others the same. Overall, it sounds fun and offers a lot of choice to the board.

It is unlikely someone goes for Big Money on a board with Petty Lord, but the balance between the cards is probably off. I don't see how 6 Warlords (btw, there are only 5 in total) would be any more harmful than 2 as players with less than 5 cards in their hand will not be affected. A pin with Warlord would only be possible if other players always rely on exactly one card in their hand to do something decent.

Warlord is strong. Maybe too strong to be fun, because if I have two of them, I can turn it into a targetted discard (first reveal hand, then choose the right price). There's a reason Pillage is a one-shot. "Trash a card from the supply" feels a bit tacked on, when it would be enough to just name it. I guess it makes for a combo with Petty Lord. But self-combos aren't that hot.

I didn't mention that the Petty Lord upgrades, like for Page and Peasant, are not in the Supply and there's only 5 of them each. It is supposed to take a while until you even get one (Warlord or Savior) but the exchange conditions probably aren't harsh enough for that. So that's going to be tweaked.
Trashing cards from the Supply is there to limit the number of successful Warlord attacks as well as accelerate the game so it doesn't drag on for too long.

Robber Knight is okay if considered singly. But I think gaining Gold is a bit much since this card can also gain Warlord.

Robber Knight is pretty meh. I mean, it's either "trash 1 card", which is a super-weak Trade Route, or some kind of worse Trading Post (actually considering that, I feel like the flavor should be something with Trade). So a weak trasher that you can't even get on T1/T2. I doubt you will ever choose not to exchange it if you can.

Yeah, I might adjust what RK does on play. I wanted something with Ruins and trashing but what is conditional on what is open for change.

Savior is good as Treasure Golem, so so as Golem, and worse if your opponent is spamming Warlords. If no one is playing Warlord, it is a really good money + cycling card.

Savior's concept I think has been discussed a lot here and was always deemed broken. I play Savior, naming King's Court/Torturer. That's no fun. Even worse is the fact that it always has a Village available (Petty Lord).

I can see how it would really suck if your opponent discarded a Savior from your hand with Warlord. Savior is supposed to protect you from that so I might consider giving it a reaction that allows you to set Savior aside when you are attacked and put it into your hand next turn.
Faust, you're giving me bad credit here; as if a game with King's Court and Torturer was ever fun to begin with. Anyway, can you show me an example of a card that is similar or the same and has been deemed broken?

Petty Lord allows potentially infinite games with Bishop the same way Fortress does. I would definitely look into that combo, especially with gainers. It may be broken.

It may be but hence this is a fan card, and if this is the only issue, I will prioritise on other fixes. Thank you for reminding me anyway.

Protector is very strong as in an engine, it will almost always be terminal $4, which is better than Harvest or Merchant Ship (both 5s).

I just don't think that it will almost always be worth $4. But $3 is likely. It highly depends on deck composition so there's not much to say without playtesting. If it turns out to be too strong, I'll limit it to 3 cards or give it a nerf.

Protector: how would you ever have a situation when you discard it from play with cards in your hand?  It'll be discarded during clean-up, and the order of clean-up is entirely up to the player, so they would always discard their hand first if this was in play?

You're right, I missed that. But I hope you realise how it is supposed to be. Would an "at the start of clean-up" clause be sufficient to have Protector be discarded first?

Lastly, I believe that the upgrading line for Robber Knight/Warlord is brokenly swingy. Because in a Shelters game, I can upgrade Petty Lord to Robber Knight and trash an Overgrown Estate. This results in a Victory card in the trash that can never be removed and thus blocks all other players from ever gaining cards from this line.

I know both Warlord and Savior are very strong cards which is why I designed them to be the final stages of Traveller chains. With that said, I have no clue if the conditions under which you can exchange are appropriate. I definitely need to do something about the Overgrown Estate issue, didn't think about that.
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2015, 09:45:09 am »
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I didn't mention that the Petty Lord upgrades, like for Page and Peasant, are not in the Supply and there's only 5 of them each. It is supposed to take a while until you even get one (Warlord or Savior) but the exchange conditions probably aren't harsh enough for that. So that's going to be tweaked.
Trashing cards from the Supply is there to limit the number of successful Warlord attacks as well as accelerate the game so it doesn't drag on for too long.

I just realized that Warlord is actually quite similar to Pillage in a way. There are also games in which you can buy and play a Pillage every turn, but that only last for as long as there are Pillages around. Warlord has a similar restriction; it may work. I'm still wary of situations where the only Villages cost $3 and you can just keep on trashing Silvers to stop your opponent's engine forever. I'd maybe specify "Trash a kingdom card from the supply".

Quote
Faust, you're giving me bad credit here; as if a game with King's Court and Torturer was ever fun to begin with. Anyway, can you show me an example of a card that is similar or the same and has been deemed broken?

I am referring to this discussion (and I feel like this was not the only instance of "search for a card" cards). Granted, your version is less powerful because it lacks +action, but with Villages this can easily set up any 2-card combo you need, and even without it will quickly become a terminal $10 in Colony games.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 10:32:32 am »
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Protector: how would you ever have a situation when you discard it from play with cards in your hand?  It'll be discarded during clean-up, and the order of clean-up is entirely up to the player, so they would always discard their hand first if this was in play?

You're right, I missed that. But I hope you realise how it is supposed to be. Would an "at the start of clean-up" clause be sufficient to have Protector be discarded first?
"At the start of clean-up if you have no cards in your hand, you may exchange this from play for a $whatever" might work, but this is probably the kind of card that would need FAQing anyway.

I'd also say that the condition for upgrading this card in particular seems a little swingy to me.  In a lot of cases it seems likely to be pruely down to luck rather than skill whether you are able to upgrade it ever.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 11:12:37 am »
+1

I like the concept. Makes me think of another concept that I think is neat, though probably not actually good at all in implementation: A chain of Travelers where each one has 2 options for what to exchange for, and no repeats on options. This means you have 16 different cards you can eventually end up with, all starting from the same . Of course the card would buy a must-buy almost every game, because with 16 different places to end up, at least 1 of them would be dominant on pretty much any board. But there would be a lot of strategy in deciding which upgrade path to take.
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2015, 11:27:11 am »
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I like the idea of a traveller that can go two ways. You know, choose your path. And i like that one is an attack while the other isn't. Personally, i'm not sure i like the exchange to be conditional. I think it would be more fun if the decision between paths is up to the player and his judgement, not circumstances.

Also, take care with interactions between the lines. It might generate situations where a line is better if the other line is present, which i think would make it too little about choosing rules and too much about adjusting to your opponent(s).

About specific cards:
Petty Lord trashing an Overgrown Estate is an issue. As i said, i think it would be more fun if the choice is up to you, either way.

As faust wrote, my second Warlord can be a targeted discard attack. Even worse, my second Warlord can be a political attack. Yikes.

Savior is strictly better than Adventurer in any case where you don't want to put two different treasures in your hand or only have one copy of your best Treasure and want that together with any other Tresure. It should cost $6 $7.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 06:27:23 pm by Asper »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2015, 02:55:15 pm »
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I am referring to this discussion (and I feel like this was not the only instance of "search for a card" cards). Granted, your version is less powerful because it lacks +action, but with Villages this can easily set up any 2-card combo you need, and even without it will quickly become a terminal $10 in Colony games.

Well, Champion is also absurdly powerful but since you get it so late in the game, it seems to be okay. I want Savior and Warlord to be available only in the late-game as well but obviously it would be too easy the way the Traveller chain is designed now. Savior could also be limited to reveal only the top 4 cards of your deck and put the named card into your hand.

So there's two things I definitely need to adjust; (1) the conditions under which you can exchange. It shouldn't be too easy to upgrade your Traveller either; and (2) either make Savior (and Warlord) more expensive and accordingly even harder to obtain, or add another stage to to both Traveller chains to make them take longer until they reach their final stages.
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2015, 05:30:34 pm »
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Second edition! I reworked all of the cards, mainly concerning the exchange conditions which should be harder to meet now. Whether those conditions are reasonable, I have no idea. I hope I'll get to playtest them soon.

  • All cards cost $1 more now, so the price better reflects their power
  • Petty Lord always gives you a choice what you may exchange it for but both upgrades depend on certain conditions being met
  • Protector can only be exchanged if there is at least one empty Supply pile which should delay your first Savior significantly so that I actually feel confortable putting such a powerful card at $6
  • Robber Knight gives the Ruins to other players instead of yourself but only if you trash two cards. It cannot be exchanged unless there's at least twice as many Ruins in the trash as there are players
  • Warlord can only trash Kingdom cards from the Supply which is how I intended it to be but forgot to write that

Quote
Petty Lord, $4, Action/ Traveller
+1 Card. +2 Actions. You may return a card from the trash to the Supply.
At the start of Clean-up this turn, you may choose one: if there is at least 1 Victory card in the trash, exchange this for a Protector; or, if there are no cards in your hand, exchange this for a Robber Knight.

Quote
Protector, $5, Action/ Traveller
Reveal up to 4 cards from your hand. +$1 for each differently named card revealed.
When you discard this from play, if there is at least one empty Supply pile, you may exchange this for a Savior. (This is not in the Supply.)

Quote
Savior, $6, Action
Do this twice: Name a card and reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the named card, then put it into your hand and discard the rest. (This is not in the Supply.)

Quote
Robber Knight, $5, Action/ Attack/ Looter/ Traveller
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand. If you trashed exactly 2, gain a Gold and each other player gains a Ruins.
When you discard this from play, if there are at least twice as many Ruins in the trash as there are players, you may exchange it for a Warlord. (This is not in the Supply.)

Quote
Warlord, $6, Action/ Attack
+3 Cards. You may trash a Kingdom card from the Supply. If you do, each other player with 5 or more cards in their hand discards a card costing exactly the same (or reveals a hand with no such cards). (This is not in the Supply.)
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 04:35:34 pm »
+3

Finally, here are the mock-ups for the Traveller chain. Some cards underwent major changes especially with regards to exchange conditions. Asper was so nice to test them with me in two games so far (or was it three?).

            

I'm going to explain how the cards are meant to be played and how this worked out in practise so far. Just as a reminder: there are 10 Petty Lords in the supply and 5 of each of the other four stages not in the supply.

Petty Lord will often seem like a must-buy. Not only does it not hurt your deck, any engine will profit from it and its higher tiers. They provide you with a village, draw, sifting, trashing and economy. Without any other trashers (barring Treasure-only trashers) than Robber Knight you won't be able to get a Protector before anyone got a Robber Knight. It doesn't have to be you. 3 out of the 4 exchange conditions in this Traveller chain are global (either caring about the supply or the trash). That's why Petty Lord can actually impede the gaining of Protectors, Saviors and Warlords. But Robber Knight will always be available but you might need to be lucky, although cards like Cellar and Courtyard will help.

So let’s talk about Robber Knight next. The trashing gets you set for Protectors if you couldn’t acquire any beforehand. But more importantly, it will hand out Ruins which will presumably be trashed, thus eventually making Savior available. You probably don’t want more than two Robber Knights in most decks except if you plan to trash all of them to deny them the other players.

Protector is like a “fixed Harvest” while not strictly better. It will benefit from the Ruins you gain from Robber Knights and otherwise shine in the same kind of deck that Menagerie would like, too. In the games we’ve played, Protector stayed in my deck for a while before I could exchange it. It seems that the Ruins-in-the-trash condition is usually met more quickly than an empty supply pile. Interestingly, Petty Lord take longer to run out than normal Villages as some of them will get exchanged. So you’re probably going to get Warlord prior to Savior.

Warlord is huge draw and a Pillage-esque attack followed by a Militia. It trashes from the supply to narrow down the Pillage effect and at the same time provide you with pile control. Fortunately, the latter can be counter-acted via Petty Lords which restock the supply faster than Warlord can deplete it. In the games we played, I managed to play one or two Warlords but since they don’t stack, subsequent ones are like Hunting Grounds which is certainly good enough.

Finally, Savior: It's a ridiculously strong card, self-explanatory, strictly better than Adventurer (which is why it costs *), but very hard to acquire. I managed to get one Savior in one game and then play it once or twice. This is the way it should be. Savior both is a soft counter against Warlord and helps create the diversity in your hand you need to optimally play your Protectors. A card that you’ve waited and worked so long for should feel powerful and rewarding, similar to Champion, and I hope I can achieve that goal.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 07:39:18 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 10:47:49 am »
+1

So, i have looked up "Petty", because i felt something was off with the name. Looks like it is usually a negative word, meaning "narrow-minded" or "irrelevant". Not sure that's what you intended.

Either way, i think we played three games, one of which, thanks to Jack, Hoard, Soothsayer and Apprentice, had me ignore Petty Lord completely and still win. Though, i think back then Robber Knight only gave out a Ruins when you also trashed two cards. Either way, the interaction on that particular board was very good, and i think all it does is prove that you can't always win a game with Petty Lord alone. Because, my problem with the card is how overly dominant it is. Not only that, but as Petty Lord is also relatively complicated, having it be dominant basically forces players to play a complicated strategy whenever it is on the board. It would be far more interesting if deciding whether or not you want to go for Petty Lord was less trivial.

The first thing to get there would be removing the second Action, in my opinion. Petty Lord doesn't need to be a Village. It also doesn't need that awkward ability, which makes sense with the remaining cards of the chain, but also has the card appear very self-centered. At the very least, you don't need both at once. If you buy it as a Village, huh, why should i do this supply pile thing. If you buy it for the Traveller Chain, the Village is just too automatic and makes it far more important than it needs to be. Also the Village shifts it away from the card's central point, the two Traveller routes. Also, it's not like a board with Village-less Petty Lord can't have another Village you could use to create terminal space.

Actually, i don't even like that you can use the ability to exclude other players from upgrading their Petty Lords. It feels unfair on a certain level, and adds yet again to the self-absorbed-ness of the card. If i was you, i would try replacing the card completely.

About the other cards, i think they are fine. I also like the symmetry, and how the conditions are "empty" and "trash", which helps remembering. There's a lot i like there, but i allready told you that. I especially like Protector. Also i like how you have to wait until you get those two final upgrades. That kind of thing's not there yet in Dominion.  But Petty Lord...
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 12:13:10 pm »
+1

So, i have looked up "Petty", because i felt something was off with the name. Looks like it is usually a negative word, meaning "narrow-minded" or "irrelevant". Not sure that's what you intended.
"Petty" also has a second, more archaic meaning, meaning "small" or "minor" (doubtless related to "petite").  For example, the crime of "petty larceny" (or "petty theft") refers to stealing property worth a small amount of money (as opposed to "grand larceny" or "grand theft," which refers to stealing more valuable property).  Likewise, medieval/fantasy literature often uses the term "petty lord" to refer to a nobleman who isn't part of a great noble house and doesn't have a lot of power (e.g., you have the great lords competing for power, each supported by an array of petty lords).  Admittedly, I've never heard the term used in this way outside of legal or medieval settings.

"Minor lord" might be less ambiguous, but it does lose a bit of the medieval flavor, IMO.  I guess it's a question of whether you want more medieval terminology at the cost of some accessibility to modern readers. 

As for the cards themselves, I love the concept of a Traveler with two routes, as well as the concept of a Traveler that can only be upgraded under certain conditions (similar to Urchin or Hermit).  I haven't playtested the cards yet, so I can't really give a more specific assessment (these cards are unique enough that it's hard, for me at least, to assess them based solely on reading them).
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 04:54:44 pm »
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Thanks for the feedback and the clarification of the word "petty". I think I'll stick to that name.

Asper, you're right, Petty Lord doesn't need to be a village and I certainly don't want the decision whether you go for any of the routes, or PL at all, to be trivial. The test games helped me realise that. If there was less terminal space due to PL not granting extra actions you wouldn't be able to load up on Protectors and RKs as easily and be required to incorporate other Kingdom cards in your strategy. So I agree PL is the black sheep here, and needs to be changed.

There's no possibilities, (1) make it non-terminal, maybe a cantrip, and give it a minor, spammable ability instead of returning cards from the trash to the supply, or (2) make it terminal in which case I'd like to keep the latter ability because then PL can continue to function as a moderator to the Traveller chain without making it too easy to stop players from gaining  Warlords and Saviors.

So before anyone playtests the cards further, please let me come up with a new idea for Petty Lord.
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Asper

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2015, 07:48:00 pm »
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Well, if you want it as a Village and still have the supply thing, you could also do something like Tribute, just depending on the cards moved. Not sure how this could be implemented best. Either way it would possibly make the effects feel more connected.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2015, 07:30:53 pm »
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It's been a while but I finally made a new concept for Petty Lord.



It is now a Peddler variant instead of a Village and you may be wondering "what's with that weird interaction with the trash?" This is supposed to limit the players' ability to get Protectors too early and simultaneously make Petty Lord weaker before the second reshuffle. This whole Traveller chain is supposed to be very slow because the final cards are so ridiculously strong. Hence Petty Lord keeps the ability to regulate both Warlord's power and the possibility of exchanging for Warlords and Saviors.

The current versions of the Travellers can now be seen in the opening post.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 07:38:16 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2015, 12:11:40 am »
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These are awesome. Nice idea, great execution.
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2015, 05:17:48 am »
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Hmmm...

That Protector guy strongly reminds me of Secret Chamber.

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2015, 05:39:48 am »
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Hmmm...

That Protector guy strongly reminds me of Secret Chamber.

Trust me, he's better ;)
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2015, 03:09:25 pm »
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Hmmm...

That Protector guy strongly reminds me of Secret Chamber.

You do realize he just reveals the cards and doesn't discard them? Because i don't see how you could compare him to Secret Chamber if you did.
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2015, 04:24:34 pm »
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Trust me, he's better ;)

It is better indeed, it can be throned at least. But still, it's a terminal at best, and it seems you need to work a bit to have it in your deck.

Btw, have you tried dropping that 4 cards limit?

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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2015, 04:32:05 pm »
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Trust me, he's better ;)

It is better indeed, it can be throned at least. But still, it's a terminal at best, and it seems you need to work a bit to have it in your deck.

Btw, have you tried dropping that 4 cards limit?

Yeah it seems much more like Harvest.
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2015, 07:53:27 pm »
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This will be useless without trashers in the supply. You could fix this either by adding a weak trashing ability (e.g. 'When you gain this, you may trash a card that is in your hand or in play), or else having a setup condition that puts, say, 10 Coppers from the supply into the trash.

Compare Graverobber, Rogue, and Forager, all of which are cards that interact with the trash but also put cards into it.
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Re: A Traveller with 2 different routes
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2015, 08:52:20 pm »
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This will be useless without trashers in the supply. You could fix this either by adding a weak trashing ability (e.g. 'When you gain this, you may trash a card that is in your hand or in play), or else having a setup condition that puts, say, 10 Coppers from the supply into the trash.

Compare Graverobber, Rogue, and Forager, all of which are cards that interact with the trash but also put cards into it.

Robber Knight, which is available without trashing, trashes cards. It also is pretty good. Allthough, as Petty Lord is a weaker Peddler now, i think it could cost a little less.
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