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Author Topic: The Grand Tournament Discussion  (Read 102097 times)

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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #250 on: August 11, 2015, 03:06:11 pm »
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Anyone else get the feeling that Blizzard is trying to reveal all the shitty cards first?  Though Healing Wave does seem pretty nice.

I think they did that with GvG too. The more cards got released more good ones started popping up.

That Shaman card looks great. Heal 7 is already decent, not amazing but passable, and at heal 14 you just shut out lots of aggro decks. Like pops said, the crappy draw card seems ok in a deck with this just for the sake of card draw. What I find more interesting is that they also gave Shaman the Totem Golem and tuskar Totemic, which fit in a completely different deck. It's good I got gold Shaman, so i can try all these archtypes while also being snobbish.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #251 on: August 11, 2015, 03:31:50 pm »
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If you are wise, they fit totally different decks.  I think part of their thinking with joust was that it could possibly be both competitive and RNGfun for different people.  In competitive uses (if it does get any, that is an "if") it will only show up in tight lists that are very careful about what minions are included.  In newbie and casual play, people will run the joust cards just to see if they can randomly get the bonuses.  So it's all, fun for everyone.

So from that angle they get double value from releasing Totem Golem and Healing Wave in the same set, good players will use each for different sets and bad players will use both in the same deck and still enjoy it (without paying way too much attention to how their winrate is slipping)
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #252 on: August 11, 2015, 03:49:02 pm »
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The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #253 on: August 11, 2015, 05:12:43 pm »
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The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.

I dunno, I kinda want to throw down some Confuses while I have Stormwind Champion in play and just make all my minions ridiculous.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #254 on: August 11, 2015, 06:25:16 pm »
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The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.

I dunno, I kinda want to throw down some Confuses while I have Stormwind Champion in play and just make all my minions ridiculous.
Uh, you quoted Zog's post but your post doesn't seem to be related? Joust is a nickname for the "reveal a minion" mechanic, not a nickname for the whole set.  Confuse does not have that mechanic.

Confuse does indeed emulate Power of the Wild in addition to its own natural effect if you use it with a Stormwind Champion out, but you'll probably get to pull off the effect much more frequently if you use a cheaper source of buffs to permanentify.  Like:
-Dire Wolf Alpha
-Murloc Warleader and Grimscale Oracle
-Abusive Sergeant
-Mana Addict
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blueblimp

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #255 on: August 11, 2015, 07:04:15 pm »
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The name confuse is a weird choice for the effect. In most games, confuse is an effect that causes unintended actions to happen, not something that changes stats. For that name, something like "give all minions 50% chance to attack the wrong enemy" (same as the GvG ogre effect) would fit better I think.

It's not particularly consistent with previous appearances of that effect in Hearthstone, either, on Crazed Alchemist and Reversing Switch.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #256 on: August 11, 2015, 08:44:35 pm »
+1

The name confuse is a weird choice for the effect. In most games, confuse is an effect that causes unintended actions to happen, not something that changes stats. For that name, something like "give all minions 50% chance to attack the wrong enemy" (same as the GvG ogre effect) would fit better I think.

It's not particularly consistent with previous appearances of that effect in Hearthstone, either, on Crazed Alchemist and Reversing Switch.

But the card IS a bit confusing.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #257 on: August 12, 2015, 12:21:26 pm »
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Anyone wanna make a testing gauntlet for brews with the new set? I can play the Patron Warrior
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #258 on: August 12, 2015, 01:32:32 pm »
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Anyone wanna make a testing gauntlet for brews with the new set? I can play the Patron Warrior
That sounds cool, yeah.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #259 on: August 12, 2015, 02:03:04 pm »
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I'd say Varian Wrynn probably helps Arena Warrior a smidge.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #260 on: August 12, 2015, 02:19:07 pm »
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I'd say Varian Wrynn probably helps Arena Warrior a smidge.

Agreed, but a very small smidge. I don't think a Legendary can ever help out a class in Arena much. You don't even see a Legendary every draft let alone a specific one.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #261 on: August 12, 2015, 02:37:53 pm »
+2

If you draft Varian Wrynn in Arena, you probably won't actually draw enough cards in your 0-3 run to actually see him in your hand.  #ArenaWarriorsMatter

(My post is on twitter now, that's how that works right?)
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #262 on: August 12, 2015, 03:14:16 pm »
+2

Yes, I am firmly of the belief that Twitter is just anything with hashtags. #ArenaWarriorsMatter #DoesNotUnderstandTwitter
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #263 on: August 12, 2015, 03:21:23 pm »
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http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#22319:2;22331:1;22340:2;10:2;77:2;491:2;152:1;14440:1;214:2;270:2;676:2;12218:2;12241:2;12187:1;495:1;7742:1;22338:1;7731:2;503:1;

This is my current thinking for how Joust shaman could work.  It's either amazing or terrible. 

I noticed while drawing up the list that Frosthowl has increased the number of Ancestor's Call + Reincarnate targets from 2 (Sneed, Kel) to 3 (Sneed, Kel, Frosthowl).  This might make running the Reincarnate combo in the deck worthwhile.  Reincarnate is a little janky, but it's better than running Frost Shock because you've run out of nonminion cards you can use.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #264 on: August 12, 2015, 03:24:44 pm »
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I think you'd have to run 5 minions, maybe you could get away with 4 though.  The deciding factor isn't so much the risk of drawing Ancestral Call without a minion to cheat out, it's the risk of having all minions in your deck in hand or play and losing a healing Joust with a value of zero.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #265 on: August 12, 2015, 07:50:27 pm »
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I hope you like Unstable Portal and Bane of Doom, because Hunter is getting in on that RNG action too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3gqrrb/new_card_revealed_by_lifecoach_ram_wrangler/

Ram Wrangler
5 Mana Hunter Rare
3/3 Minion
Battlecry: if you have a Beast, summon a random Beast.

Another card whose Battlecry, when it takes effect,  ranges from bleh to just outright winning you the game. I think the requirement to have a Beast is tougher to meet than it looks once players understand the danger of leaving Beasts out, but this + Webspinner is a turn 6 play that can summon a Beast Legendary or Highmane. Or it summons Captain's Parrot or Timber Wolf or something. Why does Blizzard have to make more of these kinds of cards?

I think it makes more sense now why Ball of Spiders is 6 mana.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 07:52:17 pm by markusin »
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #266 on: August 12, 2015, 07:56:20 pm »
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I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #267 on: August 12, 2015, 08:00:55 pm »
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I don't think it can summon any uncollectible Beasts like you get from Animal Companion. That's always how these kinds of cards work in Hearthstone.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #268 on: August 12, 2015, 08:13:34 pm »
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I don't think it can summon any uncollectible Beasts like you get from Animal Companion. That's always how these kinds of cards work in Hearthstone.
Unless they say "ANY" in all caps, like the new Tuskar Totemic, who can summon 4 uncollectible totems.

The convention is a little unclear, but Blizz is literally making things up as they go along.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 08:15:52 pm by popsofctown »
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #269 on: August 12, 2015, 09:54:05 pm »
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I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #270 on: August 12, 2015, 10:07:44 pm »
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I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.

Does this fit in aggro Hunter though? I mean, it's a 5 mana card with the potential to do nothing if you have no beast in play. So really it's like a 7 mana card because you need to play a beast with it or run the risk that it's terrible. So it means Beast synergy decks will need to be a bit slow. Fits a little with the Lock and Load thing where they are pushing slower Hunter decks.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #271 on: August 13, 2015, 12:15:26 am »
+1

I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.
You're gonna have to explain to me how adding a requirement to Silver Hand Knight causes him to become constructed playable Silver Hand Knight isn't, currently.
And inconsistency generally makes cards less attractive, not more attractive.  You usually can't fully utilize the good outcomes and meet peril with the bad outcomes. 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 12:19:56 am by popsofctown »
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #272 on: August 13, 2015, 12:30:16 pm »
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I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.

Does this fit in aggro Hunter though? I mean, it's a 5 mana card with the potential to do nothing if you have no beast in play. So really it's like a 7 mana card because you need to play a beast with it or run the risk that it's terrible. So it means Beast synergy decks will need to be a bit slow. Fits a little with the Lock and Load thing where they are pushing slower Hunter decks.

I don't see this as a Face Hunter card, more of a Midrange Hunter card. Hunters run enough beasts that it shouldn't be too hard to activate this, and it's really only a 5/6 mana card if you run Webspinners (which you probably will if you're running with this card). I imagine it will be a deck that looks something like this:
Webspinners, Haunted Creepers, Owls, Animal Companions, UtH, Highmanes (all beast cards that are run now anyways) and then Ram Wranglers, Houndmasters, Kill Commands (cards that rely on Beast synergy) + 12 cards that fit that curve.

It's not unheard of to run other beasts too (Stranglethorns spring to mind, but they awkwardly sit in the same mana slot as this card, might still be okay to play this on turn 6 though if you don't have a Highmane). I think this is at least strong enough that it could squeeze out some of the Midrange Hunter cards currently run. I'm going to be playing around with it from day 1. I play a lot of Midrange Hunter and I see a place for this in my deck anyways.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #273 on: August 13, 2015, 12:59:37 pm »
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I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.
You're gonna have to explain to me how adding a requirement to Silver Hand Knight causes him to become constructed playable Silver Hand Knight isn't, currently.
And inconsistency generally makes cards less attractive, not more attractive.  You usually can't fully utilize the good outcomes and meet peril with the bad outcomes.

Because Silver Hand Knight never causes you to instantly win the game in an unfair manner. With Ram Wrangler you go in expecting the average (which you're still quite happy with) and sometimes you just get a free win because you dropped King Krush, Malorne or Gahzrilla. People run Unstable Portal and Bane of Doom for roughly the same reason, a gamble in which you can win outright plus a worst case scenario that isn't going to ruin your chances. Most of the time it's just an average card, but occasionally you just get something so good that you win outright. (I honestly don't think it's great design, but this card is strong, is all I'm saying.)
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #274 on: August 13, 2015, 01:27:11 pm »
+1

I don't really regard any of those except King Krush as unfair.  The card's not reliable until turn 6, so you're getting Malorne or Gahzrilla one turn early.  Fabulous, they were overcosted by about 1 turn!  And I'm pretty sure you're "counting them twice" when you insist they pull up the stat mean to an acceptable risk level and simulatenously provide the upside that makes the risk attractive
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