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Author Topic: The Grand Tournament Discussion  (Read 102098 times)

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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #200 on: August 07, 2015, 04:57:22 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #201 on: August 07, 2015, 05:38:10 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.

Maybe, activating it yourself does seem like what you should do, but you'd probably prefer activating it with a Doomhammer or a Blingtron. I think you probably just run one of these (if any at all), the fact that the second one doesn't really provide any great benefit really makes me think you probably aren't going to want to run two.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #202 on: August 07, 2015, 05:48:14 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.

Maybe, activating it yourself does seem like what you should do, but you'd probably prefer activating it with a Doomhammer or a Blingtron. I think you probably just run one of these (if any at all), the fact that the second one doesn't really provide any great benefit really makes me think you probably aren't going to want to run two.
In that case, your strategy had to take into account that you likely won't have this hero power for most of the game if at all, but may end up with it at some point, in case you'd prefer to have totems.

Breaking this with Blingtron is of course risky because you're likely to give your opponent a weapon when they didn't have one before, as opposed to you just having a Power Mace or sometthing. You get a 3/4 out of the deal, so it generally doesn't look like something you want to be doing.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #203 on: August 07, 2015, 06:22:05 pm »
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Yeah, I don't think it's good enough to build a whole strategy around. Nice to have if you can fit the cards to get it going quickly, but you can't count on this as the backbone of your deck. Maybe a fallback if whatever you're trying to do in the earlier game doesn't work.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #204 on: August 07, 2015, 11:58:22 pm »
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Have you tried thinking about it this way: in the right deck, I would pay 4 mana for a 2 attack weapon that had infinite durability.  And the shaman weapon is strictly better than that weapon.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #205 on: August 08, 2015, 01:31:30 am »
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Have you tried thinking about it this way: in the right deck, I would pay 4 mana for a 2 attack weapon that had infinite durability.  And the shaman weapon is strictly better than that weapon.
Hmm, you know I'm not even sure this isn't better than a straight up Shadowform for 4 mana.

Shadowform's problem is that it's slow. Playing it in turn 3 sets you behind on the board and you have to constantly spend 2 mana to deal 2 damage. With the Shaman Weapon, you spend health instead of mana for the first 4 charges, which means you aren't set back nearly as much in the early turns after equipping the weapon. After the deathrattle, you'll typically have more spare mana to use on the hero power, maybe even with hero power booster cards like Maiden of the Lake.

It like that they didn't just offer totem tribe to Shaman in this expansion.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #206 on: August 08, 2015, 03:44:51 pm »
+1

Buh?

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22334-astral-communion

Astral Communication
4 Mana Druid Spell
Gain 10 Mana Crystals.
Discard your hand.

Don't know what to make of this one. At 4 mana it's hard to combo it with stuff like Loot Hoarder and Acolytes while still getting value out of it. Works well with Innervate though.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #207 on: August 08, 2015, 04:51:56 pm »
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Buh?

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22334-astral-communion

Astral Communication
4 Mana Druid Spell
Gain 10 Mana Crystals.
Discard your hand.

Don't know what to make of this one. At 4 mana it's hard to combo it with stuff like Loot Hoarder and Acolytes while still getting value out of it. Works well with Innervate though.

woah. no idea if this works but it's sweet
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #208 on: August 08, 2015, 06:37:25 pm »
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Why does the card say "gain 10 mana crystals" and not "gain 9 mana crystals".  At first I thought the card was supposed to convey, "Ok, we need to convey that you're going to be at the mana cap for the rest of the game using a finite number of mana crystals gained", but 9 is the number that conveys that, not 10.  You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

Does 10 rather than 9 mean you're getting a Excess Mana for each of these crystals beyond 10?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 06:39:10 pm by popsofctown »
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #209 on: August 08, 2015, 07:03:26 pm »
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I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #210 on: August 08, 2015, 07:04:00 pm »
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Why does the card say "gain 10 mana crystals" and not "gain 9 mana crystals".  At first I thought the card was supposed to convey, "Ok, we need to convey that you're going to be at the mana cap for the rest of the game using a finite number of mana crystals gained", but 9 is the number that conveys that, not 10.  You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

Does 10 rather than 9 mean you're getting a Excess Mana for each of these crystals beyond 10?
Based on the wording alone compared to wld growth, there is no reason not to believe it will give you Excess Mana, except that it would potentially be a ridiculous draw card later in the game. Maybe not because you pay 2 mana per draw and you discard your hand. Does anyone know if Nourish gives Excess Mana? I never tried it myself because the draw option is strictly better at 9-10 mana.

Edit:
I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
Yeah that makes sense.
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #211 on: August 08, 2015, 07:10:42 pm »
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Wild Growth is a very special case.  The official explanation for getting Excess Mana is that drawing it late feels so bad otherwise.  Nourish doesn't produce Excess Mana as you still have the draw option.  Darnassus uses exactly the same wording as Wild Growth but won't produce Excess Mana either.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #212 on: August 08, 2015, 07:15:37 pm »
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I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
Oh, right.  I forgot, you could have a Loot Hoarder on board and ram it into something.

Good luck with doing that reliably... but yeah, that makes sense for the wording now.  Before I was thinking 9 mana would be more than adequate for Hero Power, the only mana use left.
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blueblimp

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #213 on: August 08, 2015, 07:40:02 pm »
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Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #214 on: August 08, 2015, 08:29:07 pm »
+1

I'm fine with crazy combo cards that never pan out.  Someone will have fun with them, and they don't -hurt- the game.    It's different form 5 mana sylvanas which hurt the game, and the incoming demonfire which will not cause anyone to have fun.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #215 on: August 08, 2015, 09:35:29 pm »
+1

I'm guessing the card drawn by Gadgetzan Auctioneer would be discarded?
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #216 on: August 08, 2015, 10:44:39 pm »
+1

I'm guessing the card drawn by Gadgetzan Auctioneer would be discarded?
Yeah.  Soulfire works that way.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #217 on: August 08, 2015, 11:57:20 pm »
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Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #218 on: August 09, 2015, 12:03:00 am »
+1

Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.

Ho boii. That'll be fun to try. It'll never work, but I'll be doing it :P
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #219 on: August 09, 2015, 12:32:06 am »
+1

Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.

Ho boii. That'll be fun to try. It'll never work, but I'll be doing it :P
I can only hope that the two people who will lose to it have a sense of humour.
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #220 on: August 09, 2015, 08:34:37 am »
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You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

There are edge cases where it's possible. For example, you have 5 copies of the new druid minion that destroys a manaa crystal on deathrattle, (either through Duolicate o because it's Arena), Baron Rivendare, and you Astral Communication costs 0 due to Thaurrissan/Millhouse.

Card sure seems interesting.
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #221 on: August 09, 2015, 05:10:40 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #222 on: August 09, 2015, 06:10:51 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #223 on: August 09, 2015, 08:50:34 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk

I think it's more as a concept. If Druid gets some card that can abuse hero power a lot, it could work.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #224 on: August 09, 2015, 09:58:16 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk

I think it's more as a concept. If Druid gets some card that can abuse hero power a lot, it could work.

Ancient of Kick-Ass

Use your hero power as often as you like.

5/5 something mana cost whatever
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