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Author Topic: The Grand Tournament Discussion  (Read 102094 times)

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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #175 on: August 05, 2015, 04:55:48 pm »
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Yeah, but I don't think it will be a defining part of those decks, but rather the best Joust cards thrown into control decks.

Aviana looks strong with Thaurissan because it will allow you to play one extra minion per cost reduce. I see no way minions becoem free unless Thaurissan activates while Aviana is in play.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #176 on: August 05, 2015, 06:37:28 pm »
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I dont think Joust is meant to be a thing to build around, more just a control deck mechanic.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #177 on: August 05, 2015, 06:40:41 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #178 on: August 05, 2015, 06:57:12 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

I disagree. The 5/6 taunt divine shield seems good vs. aggro. They might be meta game calls, but they are good in higher cost decks.
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #179 on: August 05, 2015, 07:20:39 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2015, 07:27:58 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Could you make a Druid Ramp deck with many Jousting cards? You don't have a lot of low cost minions in a Ramp deck.
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ashersky

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2015, 08:33:58 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Could you make a Druid Ramp deck with many Jousting cards? You don't have a lot of low cost minions in a Ramp deck.

This is what I was thinking.  I'd win most jousts with my current Ramp deck.
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #182 on: August 05, 2015, 09:08:19 pm »
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You can hardly call that a deck designed around Joust, since it already works without it.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #183 on: August 05, 2015, 10:03:41 pm »
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You can hardly call that a deck designed around Joust, since it already works without it.
What's cool about the joust mechanic is that it's not really an archetype that truly needs self-support, just like Battlecry minions don't need other Battlecry minions to provide value. For joust you just need a high curve deck, and you have different above-curve effects to choose from. Not to say any of the joust cards seen so far are super powers.

The 5/6 joust minion trades really well with most popular minions below 7 mana if you win the joust, and does a little bit more for you than Sylvanas against aggro.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #184 on: August 05, 2015, 11:08:23 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #185 on: August 05, 2015, 11:13:35 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"

That sounds terrible. I think they will enter in control decks that aren't focused on the jousting, but the jousting is good because they run big minions. Maybe new giant decks? Control pally, control shaman. They may end up being tier 2 kind of decks.
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #186 on: August 05, 2015, 11:14:52 pm »
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I completely failed to notice that it only reveals minions until now. That changes quite a bit.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #187 on: August 06, 2015, 12:46:49 am »
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I completely failed to notice that it only reveals minions until now. That changes quite a bit.

It's quite a big deal. Pushes control and isn't just a random effect. :P
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #188 on: August 06, 2015, 09:37:50 am »
+1

If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"

That sounds terrible. I think they will enter in control decks that aren't focused on the jousting, but the jousting is good because they run big minions. Maybe new giant decks? Control pally, control shaman. They may end up being tier 2 kind of decks.
Polymorph was a very viable Magic deck, it ran 59 noncreatures cards and 1 creature card.  It's hard to play 29 spells and 1 minion right now, but each new set will make it more possible to do that because we'll get more spells that are similar in quality to minions of the same cost, like Flamecannon.

Right now with the joust cards we've seen so far there's not enough quantity and quality in the jousters to motivate you to skew your whole deck towards it.  But I think we might see more joust cards.

I really don't think the joust cards will end up being cards you just hurl into control decks with no deckbuilding consideration though.  In Magic, "reveal a random card of your deck and check it for a certain quality" has always resulted in totally building around the card or totally refusing to use it at all.  Vampire Nocturnus, Polymorph, Cascade, Delver of Secrets, and Clone Shell all turned out that way (Clone Shell counting as an example of "totally refusing to use this in a competitive deck at all", it was not good enough).

Even though this mechanic seems somewhat less affected by the buff trigger than those other random reveals, the way they are designed so far makes it difficult to play the cards in control unless you know who's going to win the joust.  If you have 6 mana, a Master Jouster, a Sludge Belcher, and a Cairne Bloodhoof in hand, you're going to play Sludge Belcher if you need taunt to stay alive, and Cairne Bloodhoof if you need to generate long term advantage but your health total is ok.  And if that's how you're going to end up playing your deck anyway, why not run a Piloted Shredder or Shieldmaiden instead at that point?  Restoring health to hero and buffing to enough stats to win a trade are also things where you need to know the outcome in order to play the card over something else in your hand.  The only kind of effect I can think of where you could be ok to joust-n-pray is drawing cards, which is what Skeleton Knight does, but they were mega cautious with him so the card you draw is pretty terrible (needed at least 5 health to be worth a serious look).
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 09:39:27 am by popsofctown »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2015, 01:32:24 pm »
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Dark Portal
3 mana Neutral Minion
0/2
If this card is discarded, summon a 6/3 (Take that, Millers).

Dark Portal/Feel Reaver Combo! But they have to be in the same kingdom :P.

They gone done it:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22332-fist-of-jaraxxus

4 Mana Rare Warlock Spell
When you play or discard this, deal 4 damage to a random enemy.

A Flamecannon that can hit face for way more mana. Normally, hitting face would suck, but when you're hoping for a finish with Doomguard or Soulfire hitting face can give you lethal. Could be useful down the road.

P.S. heh, "Feel" Reaver.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2015, 01:39:32 pm »
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Zooooooooooo!
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2015, 01:40:46 pm »
+1

This one looks really nice I think.

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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2015, 01:49:21 pm »
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This one looks really nice I think.

<Charged Hammer Image>
I was just about to post that one. Totally came out of left field given the totem stuff they were pushing for.

"Try our free demo trial for 2 damage a turn for 4 turns before deciding if charged hero power is right for you". Hey, maybe Shaman wouldn't be as desperate for card draw if they could use their hero power to good effect.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #193 on: August 07, 2015, 02:00:33 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2015, 02:06:41 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
The 4 durability is a problem so long as you need to preserve your life total, which Shaman does need to do generally. It curves into Doomhammer and Powermace + hero power. If there was some other as-yet-unseen synergy with this card, it could push this card over the top.

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #195 on: August 07, 2015, 02:15:03 pm »
+1

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #196 on: August 07, 2015, 02:43:37 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
I don't think Shaman would play Stormforged Axe for 3 mana, so I don't think they'd play this at 4 mana. Shaman doesn't really have weapon synergy cards either besides Doomhammer + Rockbiter.

Then again Shaman already had big minions and spells to easily kill 3+ health minions, so the stats of this weapon kind of compliment the Shaman arsenal.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #197 on: August 07, 2015, 03:21:32 pm »
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Druid gets a strictly better Holy Smite, makes me want to see if I can't resurrect Gadgetzan Druid.  Though that's not necessary for the card to just be plain good, I suspect. 

There's another Silver Hand Recruits matter, and that really annoys me because it makes Paladin swingier based on whether they draw their 3 mana spell, whatever it's called again.

New shaman weapon is probably ok in decks with Powermace + Arcane Nullifier.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #198 on: August 07, 2015, 03:24:41 pm »
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Flavor win: Priest now has the best "Restore N health" spell, finally.
Flavor loss: Aggro warrior minion named "Alexstraza's champion" is actually a horrible nombo with Alexstraza.  Also my name is Alex, and I don't like it.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #199 on: August 07, 2015, 04:25:13 pm »
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Flavor win: Priest now has the best "Restore N health" spell, finally.
Flavor loss: Aggro warrior minion named "Alexstraza's champion" is actually a horrible nombo with Alexstraza.  Also my name is Alex, and I don't like it.
Priest: That's a card that probably should have been in the classic set, with Holy Fire coming in later.
Warrior: It seems that it's a nombo with pops too. Thought it would be a joust card based on the art. It does look like the most natural fit for a dragon synergy card so far.
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