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Author Topic: The Grand Tournament Discussion  (Read 102088 times)

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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #150 on: August 04, 2015, 06:38:18 pm »
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I feel part of the issue is more constraints on utility creatures. M:tG in particular gives itself more complexity to play around with through activated abilities, which I doubt will enter Hearthstone anytime soon.

None of the cards revealed so far feel like keystone cards, meaning cards you explicitly build a deck around. Mana Addict is a keystone. Grim Patron is a keystone, I'd argue Mechwarper is a keystone. Odds are I'm underestimating Inspire, but I've yet to see something that makes me want to try building a deck around it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #151 on: August 04, 2015, 07:11:51 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.

I like Dr. Boom. It goes in every deck and takes up an expensive minion card slot from every deck, which otherwise would have been a less versatile legendary in many cases.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #152 on: August 04, 2015, 07:19:43 pm »
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I feel part of the issue is more constraints on utility creatures. M:tG in particular gives itself more complexity to play around with through activated abilities, which I doubt will enter Hearthstone anytime soon.

None of the cards revealed so far feel like keystone cards, meaning cards you explicitly build a deck around. Mana Addict is a keystone. Grim Patron is a keystone, I'd argue Mechwarper is a keystone. Odds are I'm underestimating Inspire, but I've yet to see something that makes me want to try building a deck around it.

It's true, eh? We haven't seen anything that really encourages you to make an inspire deck. All it takes is a couple or really good inspire cards. With those in existence, all the inspire and inspire support cards shoot up in value. If they think cards like Coldarra Drake are going to single-handedly make inspire work, then they are mistaken.

I think the closest "keystone" card we've seen so far is Frost Giant, but mainly for Echo Mage. That's cool because the Giants in general push for certain playstyles and have helped create some powerful deck archetypes in the past (Molten + Mountain for Handlock and Sea Giant for new Imp-losion style zoo). Frost Giants keep their lowered cost when copied with Echo Mage after all, and work well with Duplicate and Effigy. Unfortunately getting good value out Frost Giants takes time and needs support from cards like Garrison Commander, Fallen Hero, and maybe Maiden of the Lake to pan out.

It might still be too slow and not a very good deck, but low-cost Frost Giants is at least a dream that can be aimed for throughout the continued lifetime of Hearthstone.

Dr. Boom annoys me in general.

I like Dr. Boom. It goes in every deck and takes up an expensive minion card slot from every deck, which otherwise would have been a less versatile legendary in many cases.
Yeah I guess its not so bad to have a generic high mana value card that fits in most decks. Ragnaros just doesn't cut it anymore, though Sylvanas also works in lots of places.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #153 on: August 04, 2015, 08:01:14 pm »
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I think the Inspire one drop seems like the most viable card in the set so far.  Turn one it is great.  Later turns, you don't want to let someone attack into it before it has gained attack, but it shouldn't be too difficult to jam it in just before a hero power activation you would have done anyway.

In mage it is strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman, which is cute.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #154 on: August 04, 2015, 08:28:31 pm »
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It's not strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman in mage since it uses upyour hero power, so you can't deal 2 damage with it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #155 on: August 04, 2015, 10:23:46 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #156 on: August 04, 2015, 11:22:45 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.
It's more like the only worthy big minions happen to be Legendaries. Yeah, I think the game's become a lot more cruel to new players than it was before Naxx when I started.

I think the Inspire one drop seems like the most viable card in the set so far.  Turn one it is great.  Later turns, you don't want to let someone attack into it before it has gained attack, but it shouldn't be too difficult to jam it in just before a hero power activation you would have done anyway.

In mage it is strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman, which is cute.
I regard most low-mana, 1-attack minions that can increase their attack power as having some worth just because of Hobgoblin. Any deck that makes use of early game 1-attack minions can turn them into mid-game cards with Hobgoblin. Back when Mech-Mage was a thing, it was nice that Hobgoblin could boost Mana Wyrm, Cogmaster, Annoy-o-tron, and Micro Machine.

Edit: Spelling
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 11:25:45 pm by markusin »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #157 on: August 05, 2015, 08:55:57 am »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.

Check it out:

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19817948/the-grand-tournament-at-gamescom-8-5-2015

They're finally going to give rewards besides card backs based on your Rank at the end of each season so long as you pass Rank 20. The better your Rank, the more golden cards you get, bit the less dust you're rewarded (though it doesn't look like much dust to begin with).

Also, there are a whole bunch of newly revealed cards in that blog post. There's a new "Joust" mechanic: both players reveal a random minion from their deck, and if the card belonging to the initiator of the joust costs more, that card gets a bonus effect. Ex. There's a 5 mana 5/5 that, if it wins a joust, restores 7 health to your hero.

In other news, inspire minions continue to be have stats that are woefully below curve.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 08:57:13 am by markusin »
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EgorK

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2015, 09:06:24 am »
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Joust (along with actual cards that were presented) seems to encourage control paladin
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2015, 09:08:49 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card! Also some of these actually look decent. They seem to want Warrior to play lots of Taunts, but that buffs seems good if you get it on two minions, sometimes even 1. Master jouster seems pretty strong too vs. aggro.  A card that actually helps control decks a lot. The paladin card is cool too, although right now they run more midrange stuff. It has potential though, and the heal is pretty big. That 1 drop is interesting too. Will it make turn 1 Injured Kvaldr into circle a thing? Maybe not, but it ups the value potential for priest to play circle. Old school Injured blademaster Priest gets a buff :P

EDIT: The legends aren't great. Gromok is too much of a win more card, but MAYBE since Shaman is getting a buff you might pump enough totems out to make it work. And Skeleton Knight is a big iffy for the stats. It's cool that it can come back, and in heavy control that might be good. But control vs control it's terrible. And low health vs aggro is bad. Doesn't seem strong.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:11:23 am by KingZog3 »
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EgorK

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #160 on: August 05, 2015, 09:10:46 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #161 on: August 05, 2015, 09:35:59 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo
They just keep wanting to make Lava shock good.

I like that Injured 1-drop (also slight buff to Resurrect) and Gormok. Zoo decks usually have a couple of turns where they have a massive board, and over-confident token decks have the option to include this.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #162 on: August 05, 2015, 09:36:31 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo

Mean, yeah, but I'll give it a try anyway in the new slow shaman decks they're pushing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #163 on: August 05, 2015, 09:52:02 am »
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Some more new cards here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/968-new-card-reveals-from-gamescom-new-mechanic-joust

Not sure I like the idea of this Jousting thing.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2015, 10:57:58 am »
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Some more new cards here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/968-new-card-reveals-from-gamescom-new-mechanic-joust

Not sure I like the idea of this Jousting thing.
Worth noting that every single joust card ia a Battlecry and so interacts with the Crowd Favourite (4 mana 4/4 that gaina +1/+1 per Battlecry minion you play) and Nerub'ar Weblord. But like I don't see why I would use the 1 mana 1/2 jouster over Zombie Chow. The Armored Warhorse looks interesting, but I can't visualize what deck would want it. The value of the Tuskarr Jouster and Master Jouster seem more apparent though.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #165 on: August 05, 2015, 11:26:17 am »
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Injured Kvaldir + Ancestral Healing = 2/4 Taunt for 1 Mana (2 cards)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #166 on: August 05, 2015, 02:54:02 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #167 on: August 05, 2015, 03:09:28 pm »
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Some of these cards are looking better - I'm sure Aviana is not viable at all but I'm going to hope I pull one to try shenanigans.

I can see Joust becoming annoying, but it's not like there isn't precedent for it. M:tG had a similar mechanic called "clash". IIRC people weren't that fond of it, but it was much more consistent than it looked. (Although for the M:tG version, each player revealed the top card, then each player chooses to leave it on top or put it at the bottom. So even though the mechanic was random, the better player could still make better filtering decisions, and revealing a cheap card meant you could make sure you didn't draw that card next turn.)
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Awaclus

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #168 on: August 05, 2015, 03:59:18 pm »
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Some of these cards are looking better - I'm sure Aviana is not viable at all but I'm going to hope I pull one to try shenanigans.

I can see Joust becoming annoying, but it's not like there isn't precedent for it. M:tG had a similar mechanic called "clash". IIRC people weren't that fond of it, but it was much more consistent than it looked. (Although for the M:tG version, each player revealed the top card, then each player chooses to leave it on top or put it at the bottom. So even though the mechanic was random, the better player could still make better filtering decisions, and revealing a cheap card meant you could make sure you didn't draw that card next turn.)

MtG has more tools for controlling what's on top of your deck, though. Hearthstone has basically nothing.

OTOH, MtG requires (almost) every deck to run a bunch of cards that cost 0.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #169 on: August 05, 2015, 04:18:36 pm »
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Joust = Aggro counter balance
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #170 on: August 05, 2015, 04:30:58 pm »
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So, is it just me or does the rogue legendary look really good for a control rogue? Also great in arena

markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #171 on: August 05, 2015, 04:46:37 pm »
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So, is it just me or does the rogue legendary look really good for a control rogue? Also great in arena
I don't know if he's a reason to go control Rogue, but it would work quite well in that deck. It's like multiple big drops packed into one card. It's a step up from Malorne.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #172 on: August 05, 2015, 04:48:38 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.

I don't think there will be Joust decks, and even if they are they still need stuff to play early game, and the opponent will often play some expensive cards.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #173 on: August 05, 2015, 04:49:40 pm »
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Aviana might be powerful if a Thaurissan cost reduction happens after the "cost (1)" reduction. That would make all minions whose cost is reduced by Thaurissan cost 0 mana once you play this, and so you can drop a whole bunch on minions at once with this turn 9.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 04:51:25 pm by markusin »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #174 on: August 05, 2015, 04:50:57 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.

I don't think there will be Joust decks, and even if they are they still need stuff to play early game, and the opponent will often play some expensive cards.
Depending on how good the cards are there may be a few decks with a couple of Joust cards in them.
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