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Author Topic: The Grand Tournament Discussion  (Read 102111 times)

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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2015, 02:10:41 pm »
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Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 02:11:51 pm by ycz6 »
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2015, 02:13:07 pm »
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I wonder how they'll implement the upgraded Shaman power without a confusing interface though :P

Same interface as Tracking, I'd guess. Just show the Totems that aren't on the board yet (or maybe this lets your summon duplicates, who knows).
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2015, 02:34:16 pm »
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2015, 03:52:42 pm »
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Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.

Oh right. Well, then i take it back. This'll be good Shaman. And it seems they want Shaman to be crazy good.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2015, 05:27:08 pm »
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Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.

Oh right. Well, then i take it back. This'll be good Shaman. And it seems they want Shaman to be crazy good.
The Hero Power Shaman always wanted, but for a 6 mana upfront price. Seems fair.

Many of the new cards seen so far go against the idea of immediate gratification. It will take careful setup to make these combos pay off. Not like in GvG where you "combo" you mechs with Mechwarper as early as Turn 2.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2015, 05:40:15 pm »
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I just noticed that there might be some hope for Shadowform Priest now if there ends up being enough good inspire minions. Hard to say because Priest cards generally like heal.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2015, 08:25:17 pm »
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On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2015, 09:01:00 pm »
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On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
I'm not really familiar with Magic. How do rotating formats work for TCGs?
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2015, 09:13:07 pm »
+1

Basically, you can only use cards from the previous two-ish blocks, where each block consists of some number of expansions. See: http://magic.wizards.com/en/content/standard-formats-magic-gathering
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2015, 09:16:44 pm »
+1

On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
I'm not really familiar with Magic. How do rotating formats work for TCGs?

Magic releases expansions in blocks. Every block shares common flavor + mechanics, and each block usually has 3 expansions.

Magic has a format called Standard, where the legal cards are all cards from the past 2 blocks. Whenever a new block comes out, the oldest block rotates out of Standard. The block that rotates out is still tournament legal, but only in formats that allows more cards. So viable cards in Standard may not be viable in the next biggest format, Modern.
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Haddock

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2015, 03:01:39 am »
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I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2015, 12:37:53 pm »
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I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.

I watched Trump talk about it on stream. He thinks it's basically terrible in Hunter and Shaman, and that it would be playable in other classes IF you think the game can be dragged out to 10-15 turns reliably so you can win based on the edge your improved hero power grants you. (So his opinion was that Control/Fatigue style decks are going to get more use out of it, he seemed to think it was strongest in Priest, Warrior, Druid, Paladin.)
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2015, 02:43:30 pm »
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I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.

I watched Trump talk about it on stream. He thinks it's basically terrible in Hunter and Shaman, and that it would be playable in other classes IF you think the game can be dragged out to 10-15 turns reliably so you can win based on the edge your improved hero power grants you. (So his opinion was that Control/Fatigue style decks are going to get more use out of it, he seemed to think it was strongest in Priest, Warrior, Druid, Paladin.)

Shaman's new cards are really slow game focused though, and with totem synergy. So perhaps getting the exact totems you want will be good enough.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2015, 02:47:06 pm »
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Also another reveal. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/

9 mana 9/7 - neutral common.

Battecry: deal 4 damage.

So decent in arena, terrible in constructed I think. It's ok for budget decks and at least it does something impactful when played, but fire elemental still kicks it's butt.
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2015, 02:51:01 pm »
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Wow! A 9 mana common? Definitely an interesting option in Arena drafts. Also seems like they might be trying to make the game friendlier for F2P and new players.

Some other new cards: http://hearthstoneplayers.com/new-grand-tournament-card-revealed-at-taiwan-event/

« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 02:52:17 pm by ycz6 »
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2015, 03:00:57 pm »
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Sacred Warrior seems kinda cool. Easy to make 5/5 and can be pretty scary with CoH.

Fizzlebang seems cool, but unplayable. 8 mana 4/4 minion with taunt, draw a card and play it or 6 mana 4/4 minion with taunt.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2015, 04:15:39 pm »
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FIzzlebang seems ok in my opinion. Mainly because of Thaurissan. Plus the new minions that make your hero power cheaper.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2015, 04:30:21 pm »
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Also another reveal. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/

9 mana 9/7 - neutral common.

Battecry: deal 4 damage.

So decent in arena, terrible in constructed I think. It's ok for budget decks and at least it does something impactful when played, but fire elemental still kicks it's butt.
Yes if anything Arena is going to slow down rather than constructed. This card here can sit right next to Force-Tank MAX in terms of strength. A lot of other cards in this expansion might pay off in Arena too.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2015, 11:22:04 am »
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Another inspire card.

4 mana 1/8 Neutral

Inspire: Heal your hero 2hp
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2015, 12:18:02 pm »
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Another inspire card.

4 mana 1/8 Neutral

Inspire: Heal your hero 2hp
Kind of like a more extreme version of Oasis Snapjaw here. If you can taunt it up against aggro it's pretty nifty. Though, most of the decks besides Handlock that give taunt to other stuff are aggro themselves (zoolock, aggrodin with Coghammer) and this is too passive for them I think. Same deal with Maiden of the Lake I think. How many 4 mana inspire cards can we really expect to field anyway?

For something that you'd normally like to protect with taunts, it gives a poor stat distribution when it comes to aggression.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 12:19:14 pm by markusin »
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2015, 06:31:59 pm »
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Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2015, 07:46:26 pm »
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Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
Kind of like the brewmasters, you can imagine scenarios where the effect is good, but more often than not the effect will be a nuisance rather than a benefit when tempo matters most. Sure in Arena I guess it's an okay topdeck. Can survive a Flamestrike, then attack, then you can play it again for a bunch of mana. I think with the cards we have so far this wouldn't see really play. We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2015, 07:58:11 pm »
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Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
Kind of like the brewmasters, you can imagine scenarios where the effect is good, but more often than not the effect will be a nuisance rather than a benefit when tempo matters most. Sure in Arena I guess it's an okay topdeck. Can survive a Flamestrike, then attack, then you can play it again for a bunch of mana. I think with the cards we have so far this wouldn't see really play. We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.

This seems kinda bad to me. I mean yeah there's some situations where it's good, but it seems like a punishment to me. 3 mana card and you can't use your hero power without losing tempo. I guess it's still a 2/5 for 3 mana, but it seems more like a use of the Inspire mechanic as a negative (kindof like Anubar Ambusher).
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2015, 07:59:31 pm »
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We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.
Ah, you mean in case we have any Undertaker-like cards which specifically call out the Inspire keyword? I'm kinda skeptical that there'll be enough of that to make a big difference... the Inspires we've seen so far have already had a pretty large variety of effects, and it'd be kinda weird to call that word out specifically when the cards which have it don't necessarily have much else in common. It's the same reason we don't have any cards specifically about Battlecries, except for Nerub'ar Weblord, which is generally considered a pretty weird and dumb card.

As for Coliseum Manager (the new 2/5) specifically... I doubt it'll ever be used in Constructed, except in some sort of Warsong Commander + new Inspire shenanigan combo deck, but I think it'll be better in Arena than people are giving it credit for. 2/5 is a solid body on turn 3, and the ability to heal it up and along with a free hero power for 5 mana and 0 net cards is kinda comparable to Azure Drake or a super-Gnomish Inventor, if you squint at it. I don't think it'll be a good card, though, because being unable to use your hero power without a big tempo loss is a problem.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2015, 08:33:31 pm »
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@Inspire keyword:

There could be a card like Baron Rivendare or Feign Death that has an effect like "Activate the Inspire effects of your friendly minions". At this point I think they might need something like that to make a deck with inspire as the central theme viable. The cards with the Inspire tag have, dare I say, uninspiring stats and strength when considered in a vacuum.
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