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Jorbles

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The Grand Tournament Discussion
« on: July 02, 2015, 07:53:09 pm »
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EDIT: This thread was originally titled "New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)" but is now devoted to discussion of The Grand Tournament the Hearthstone expansion announced July 22, 2015.

A new expansion is possibly being teased for July 22, 2015? Possibly themed around the Argent Tournament (whatever that is).

http://www.pcgamer.com/next-hearthstone-expansion-teased-for-july-22/

All rumour and speculation at this point, but solid reasons to expect a big announcement like an expansion.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 05:38:35 pm by Jorbles »
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Jorbles

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015, 07:56:47 pm »
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Also possible that this is just an announcement for an announcement and that this is all just hype.
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Kirian

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2015, 01:33:14 am »
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the Argent Tournament (whatever that is).

So... many... daily... quests...
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EgorK

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2015, 10:08:34 am »
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I would bet on July 22 they'd say that there would be expansion released in August/September, but with no set date
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Grujah

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 05:33:41 pm »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D
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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2015, 06:14:59 pm »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D

They just had a new mode with tavern brawl though. My guess is a new class (Which is totally not needed) and new cards for sure.
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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 06:38:05 pm »
+2

Since they are making an announcement to announce an announcement, I can only assume that Garrosh has decided to take his talents to Miami.
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markusin

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 08:48:16 pm »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D

They just had a new mode with tavern brawl though. My guess is a new class (Which is totally not needed) and new cards for sure.
Yeah I'm not hoping for a new class. Our nine representatives had to brave through Naxx, Blackrock, and all those batyles to earn classic packs to earn their cards. There's still so much they can bring on their own.

What, some new hotshot thinks he or she can come in with all their 2 years worth of class cards and feel accepted? Bah, they should just make a spinoff or "expansion" if they want more classes.

I doubt they'll be introducing a new class, so my comments above shouldn't be relevant.
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EgorK

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2015, 06:59:29 am »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D

They just had a new mode with tavern brawl though. My guess is a new class (Which is totally not needed) and new cards for sure.

They specifically said that there would not be new class this time
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Jorbles

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 05:33:29 pm »
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New expansion confirmed on http://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone/ just now. I'll edit in the new name to this thread for discussion when they say it.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 05:39:26 pm »
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It's the Grand Tournament, the website for it is not live yet, but can eventually be found at grandtourney.com.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 05:42:46 pm »
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I'm watching the stream now. It's like a sequel to the Argent Tournament lore-wise.

Update: It's going to be a 130 card GvG style expansion coming next month. Introduces mechanics dealing with the hero power, including a new keyword mechanic where a minion's effect takes place every time your hero power is used.

Heh, "Inspire" reminds me of Innovation.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 05:55:34 pm by markusin »
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2015, 05:52:03 pm »
+1

So far things announced:
-It's a riff on the Argent Tournament that is themed to happen a year after the Argent Tournament when people wanted to have another tournament.
-New playfield is going to be there.
-New Mechanic: There will be "a ton" of new cards that effect hero powers.
-New Keyword: Inspire. Everytime you use your hero power Inspire happens.
-Over 130 new cards.
-If you buy in advance you can get a discount on the new cards. (or you can get them with gold as usual). Prices not mentioned. $50 for 50 packs.
-Available "next month".

Cards:
Skycap'n Kragg
7 mana Legendary Neutral Pirate Minion
4/6
Charge, costs 1 less for each friendly pirate
Lock and Load
2 mana Epic Hunter Spell Epic
Each time you cast a spell this turn add a random Hunter card to your hand.
Maiden of the Lake
4 mana Common Neutral Minion
2/6
Your hero power costs 1 less.
Coldarra Drake
6 mana Epic Mage Dragon Minion
6/6
You can use your Hero Power any number of times.
Frost Giant
10 mana Epic Neutral Minion
8/8
Costs 1 less for each time you use your hero power this turn
Lowly Squire
1 mana Common Neutral Minion
1/2
Inspire: Gain +1 attack.
Nexus-Champion Saraad
5 mana Legendary Neutral Minion
4/5
Inspire: Add a random spell to your hand.

There's a show match with some other new cards that'll show up in a second. I'll add some more when I see them.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 06:37:41 pm by Jorbles »
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Galzria

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2015, 05:53:24 pm »
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Super excited!
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Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2015, 06:00:21 pm »
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Totem Golem
2 mana ?Rare? Shaman Totem Minion
3/4
Overload: 1

Fallen Hero
2 mana Rare Mage Minion
?3/2?
Make Mage Hero power do an extra damage.

Kodorider
6 mana Epic Neutral Minion
3/5
Inspire: Summon a 3/5 War Kodo

Effigy
3 mana Mage Secret
When a friendly minion dies Recombobulate the minion. (not correct language, but that's the effect)

Stream went down, I'll probably just let r/hearthstone compile the rest of the new cards as this is super time consuming, but I'll edit them in when I see them next.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 06:03:44 pm by Jorbles »
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2015, 06:01:12 pm »
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Jesus that Shaman minion looks ridiculous for Arena

Edit: Partial card list: http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/cards
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 06:03:09 pm »
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Jesus that Shaman minion looks ridiculous for Arena

Edit: Partial card list: http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/cards
Worth noting that it's a totem.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2015, 06:09:53 pm »
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Draenei Totem Carver
4 mana Rare Shaman Minion
4/4
Battlecry: +1/+1 for each ?friendly? totem.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 06:10:42 pm »
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This is the place to be to see them as they get shown apparently:
https://www.reddit.com/live/vaavp3v4sqsw
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 06:12:06 pm »
+2

It's happening!

◥█̆◤ T O T E M I C M I G H T B O Y S ◥█̆◤
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 06:21:31 pm »
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It's happening!

◥█̆◤ T O T E M I C M I G H T B O Y S ◥█̆◤
It's like Totemic might was a 2-year foreshadowing.
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2015, 06:22:19 pm »
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Oh my god guys the Coldarra Drake / Majordomo Executus combo
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2015, 06:39:35 pm »
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Oh my god guys the Coldarra Drake / Majordomo Executus combo
Yikes, and Mage was already trying to make Majordomo work with Ice Block and Ice Barrier.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 06:40:08 pm »
+1

"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2015, 06:41:12 pm »
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Does anyone have a link to just the cards?
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2015, 06:47:12 pm »
+1

"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2015, 06:55:24 pm »
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I know right? I play a lot of Arena and now have way more GVG cards than Classic.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2015, 06:57:44 pm »
+1

Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2015, 07:12:02 pm »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2015, 07:16:31 pm »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.

Could go either way, but I'd be more inclined to think it's random as that seems to be Blizzards favourite way to do things. Unless you're playing Druid, then you get to choose.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 07:16:44 pm »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 07:30:03 pm »
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"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
Indeed. I'm still short on those epic giants from classic. Can't run Handlock with my currently collection even if I wanted to. Plus I already got most of the good stuff from GvG.

The only reason I can think of for why we were stuck only getting GvG cards from Arena in the first place is because they didn't want to put in the coding effort or didn't want to clutter the interface. Now they don't have much of a choice to fix that with the new expansion.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 07:30:17 pm »
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This image (screenshot from the stream):


Is probably a thing. I just noticed it's all new art so it's possibly new Legendaries with their Vanilla stats teased. (I doubt they are all new Warlock Legendaries).

How bad would a 2/4 have to be to cost 1 mana?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2015, 07:40:36 pm »
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"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
Indeed. I'm still short on those epic giants from classic. Can't run Handlock with my currently collection even if I wanted to. Plus I already got most of the good stuff from GvG.

The only reason I can think of for why we were stuck only getting GvG cards from Arena in the first place is because they didn't want to put in the coding effort or didn't want to clutter the interface. Now they don't have much of a choice to fix that with the new expansion.

On a second read, you probably get the pack randomly. Blizzard has said before that keeping the interface is a top priority, which is why we're still missing extra deck slots. Making a new interface to choose the pack you get is one more dialog box to get through before you get back to the game, so odds are you don't get to choose. (Although if it's changed to be random, I'm not sure why it stayed low priority for so long, since they don't need to make any new UI.)

I still prefer pure random over only getting the most recent expansion.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2015, 07:53:30 pm »
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"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
Indeed. I'm still short on those epic giants from classic. Can't run Handlock with my currently collection even if I wanted to. Plus I already got most of the good stuff from GvG.

The only reason I can think of for why we were stuck only getting GvG cards from Arena in the first place is because they didn't want to put in the coding effort or didn't want to clutter the interface. Now they don't have much of a choice to fix that with the new expansion.

On a second read, you probably get the pack randomly. Blizzard has said before that keeping the interface is a top priority, which is why we're still missing extra deck slots. Making a new interface to choose the pack you get is one more dialog box to get through before you get back to the game, so odds are you don't get to choose. (Although if it's changed to be random, I'm not sure why it stayed low priority for so long, since they don't need to make any new UI.)

I still prefer pure random over only getting the most recent expansion.
When the choice was only between GvG and the base set, they didn't want people to feel ripped off by Arena. Now they'd feel ripped off if they're only limited to one of the 100+ card pack types.

So they were clearly trying to buff totems for Shaman so that Shaman can properly benefit from the hero power mechanics of this expansion. I'm really curious how they'll do this for Rogue. Spamming the Rogue hero power anti-synergizes with many of the Rogue's better cards. I'm expecting a Rogue card that either buffs the Hero power in some way or changes the way it works altogether (for example by making it affect the equipped weapon's attack and/or durability).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2015, 07:59:50 pm »
0

Oh my god guys the Coldarra Drake / Majordomo Executus combo
Yikes, and Mage was already trying to make Majordomo work with Ice Block and Ice Barrier.
Actually, we haven't received confirmation on whether or not Coldarra only works on the Mage hero power like Hunter's Sniper. It's reasonable to believe Coldarra will only work on the Mage's base hero power (Fire Blast).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2015, 09:42:09 pm »
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How bad would a 2/4 have to be to cost 1 mana?
I believe the last time we had a trailer like this, only the card images were accurate, not their classes, rarities, or stats. Don't quote me on that though.

The drawback wouldn't have to be that bad, we already have Zombie Chow after all.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2015, 10:28:15 pm »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.

Ew. It is random. That sucks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2015, 11:05:41 pm »
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Ball of Spiders is hilariously bad. On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2015, 11:31:28 pm »
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Ball of Spiders is hilariously bad. On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.
Not the worst thing in Arena though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2015, 09:58:32 am »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.

Ew. It is random. That sucks.

The more I think about it, the more I hate it. In the long run it makes getting all your cards via arena absolutely nonviable. With the current system of only getting the latest expansion, you might miss some by starting later, or not playing when the xpansion is active. With the new system, getting cards from a set you don't already have most of will converge to zero.

Blizzard may claim that not being able to choose is to keep the interface simpler, but a far more likely reason is that they want everyone to pay real money for the new cards.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2015, 11:24:56 am »
+1

They should just give a Pack Token that you can redeem for a pack of your choice. I'm not sure how making it random is better than that.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2015, 11:46:19 am »
+2

They should just give a Pack Token that you can redeem for a pack of your choice. I'm not sure how making it random is better than that.

$$$$$$$
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2015, 12:10:36 pm »
0

They should just give a Pack Token that you can redeem for a pack of your choice. I'm not sure how making it random is better than that.

$$$$$$$

Well yeah :P But I just meant for the game. Obviously its a way to get more money.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2015, 12:31:29 pm »
+2

Grand Tournament
$5 - Action

+1 Action
Each player may reveal a Province from his hand.
If you do, discard it and gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or  a Duchy, putting it on top of your deck.   
If no one else does, +1 Card, +$1, +1 Buy, and take a Coin token.

------------------------
You can't buy this if you have any Copper in play.
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2015, 12:47:21 pm »
0

The more I think about it, the more I hate it. In the long run it makes getting all your cards via arena absolutely nonviable. With the current system of only getting the latest expansion, you might miss some by starting later, or not playing when the xpansion is active. With the new system, getting cards from a set you don't already have most of will converge to zero.

Blizzard may claim that not being able to choose is to keep the interface simpler, but a far more likely reason is that they want everyone to pay real money for the new cards.

Aren't you contradicting your position here? It's nonviable to get all cards via arena right now, unless you get all cards in an expansion before it goes out of the arena rotation. The vast majority of people do not have complete Classic collections from arena. This is a system that's better for newer players. Sure, there exist ones that are better for everybody, but Blizzard aren't implementing them.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2015, 01:38:13 pm »
0

Players still get classic packs from tavern brawl and "spectate a game" quests, though. It's not like they're completely out of circulation.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2015, 01:43:49 pm »
+1

New players will get cards they don't already have from any kind of pack. So the only people this is better for are new players who play insane amounts, and it's only better for them until the next expansion releases.
Note that it's also probably better to have lots of cards from the same set instead some from every set due to increased synergies, and cards from the newest set for power creep reasons.

New legendary improving hero powers revealed here btw: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19819221/the-grand-tournament-hero-powers-7-23-2015
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2015, 01:49:18 pm »
+1

I wonder how they'll implement the upgraded Shaman power without a confusing interface though :P
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2015, 01:56:54 pm »
0

Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2015, 02:10:41 pm »
0

Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 02:11:51 pm by ycz6 »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2015, 02:13:07 pm »
0

I wonder how they'll implement the upgraded Shaman power without a confusing interface though :P

Same interface as Tracking, I'd guess. Just show the Totems that aren't on the board yet (or maybe this lets your summon duplicates, who knows).
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2015, 02:34:16 pm »
0

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2015, 03:52:42 pm »
0

Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.

Oh right. Well, then i take it back. This'll be good Shaman. And it seems they want Shaman to be crazy good.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2015, 05:27:08 pm »
0

Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.

Oh right. Well, then i take it back. This'll be good Shaman. And it seems they want Shaman to be crazy good.
The Hero Power Shaman always wanted, but for a 6 mana upfront price. Seems fair.

Many of the new cards seen so far go against the idea of immediate gratification. It will take careful setup to make these combos pay off. Not like in GvG where you "combo" you mechs with Mechwarper as early as Turn 2.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2015, 05:40:15 pm »
0

I just noticed that there might be some hope for Shadowform Priest now if there ends up being enough good inspire minions. Hard to say because Priest cards generally like heal.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2015, 08:25:17 pm »
0

On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2015, 09:01:00 pm »
0

On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
I'm not really familiar with Magic. How do rotating formats work for TCGs?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2015, 09:13:07 pm »
+1

Basically, you can only use cards from the previous two-ish blocks, where each block consists of some number of expansions. See: http://magic.wizards.com/en/content/standard-formats-magic-gathering
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2015, 09:16:44 pm »
+1

On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
I'm not really familiar with Magic. How do rotating formats work for TCGs?

Magic releases expansions in blocks. Every block shares common flavor + mechanics, and each block usually has 3 expansions.

Magic has a format called Standard, where the legal cards are all cards from the past 2 blocks. Whenever a new block comes out, the oldest block rotates out of Standard. The block that rotates out is still tournament legal, but only in formats that allows more cards. So viable cards in Standard may not be viable in the next biggest format, Modern.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2015, 03:01:39 am »
0

I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2015, 12:37:53 pm »
0

I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.

I watched Trump talk about it on stream. He thinks it's basically terrible in Hunter and Shaman, and that it would be playable in other classes IF you think the game can be dragged out to 10-15 turns reliably so you can win based on the edge your improved hero power grants you. (So his opinion was that Control/Fatigue style decks are going to get more use out of it, he seemed to think it was strongest in Priest, Warrior, Druid, Paladin.)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2015, 02:43:30 pm »
0

I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.

I watched Trump talk about it on stream. He thinks it's basically terrible in Hunter and Shaman, and that it would be playable in other classes IF you think the game can be dragged out to 10-15 turns reliably so you can win based on the edge your improved hero power grants you. (So his opinion was that Control/Fatigue style decks are going to get more use out of it, he seemed to think it was strongest in Priest, Warrior, Druid, Paladin.)

Shaman's new cards are really slow game focused though, and with totem synergy. So perhaps getting the exact totems you want will be good enough.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2015, 02:47:06 pm »
0

Also another reveal. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/

9 mana 9/7 - neutral common.

Battecry: deal 4 damage.

So decent in arena, terrible in constructed I think. It's ok for budget decks and at least it does something impactful when played, but fire elemental still kicks it's butt.
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2015, 02:51:01 pm »
0

Wow! A 9 mana common? Definitely an interesting option in Arena drafts. Also seems like they might be trying to make the game friendlier for F2P and new players.

Some other new cards: http://hearthstoneplayers.com/new-grand-tournament-card-revealed-at-taiwan-event/

« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 02:52:17 pm by ycz6 »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2015, 03:00:57 pm »
0

Sacred Warrior seems kinda cool. Easy to make 5/5 and can be pretty scary with CoH.

Fizzlebang seems cool, but unplayable. 8 mana 4/4 minion with taunt, draw a card and play it or 6 mana 4/4 minion with taunt.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2015, 04:15:39 pm »
0

FIzzlebang seems ok in my opinion. Mainly because of Thaurissan. Plus the new minions that make your hero power cheaper.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2015, 04:30:21 pm »
0

Also another reveal. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/

9 mana 9/7 - neutral common.

Battecry: deal 4 damage.

So decent in arena, terrible in constructed I think. It's ok for budget decks and at least it does something impactful when played, but fire elemental still kicks it's butt.
Yes if anything Arena is going to slow down rather than constructed. This card here can sit right next to Force-Tank MAX in terms of strength. A lot of other cards in this expansion might pay off in Arena too.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2015, 11:22:04 am »
0

Another inspire card.

4 mana 1/8 Neutral

Inspire: Heal your hero 2hp
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2015, 12:18:02 pm »
0

Another inspire card.

4 mana 1/8 Neutral

Inspire: Heal your hero 2hp
Kind of like a more extreme version of Oasis Snapjaw here. If you can taunt it up against aggro it's pretty nifty. Though, most of the decks besides Handlock that give taunt to other stuff are aggro themselves (zoolock, aggrodin with Coghammer) and this is too passive for them I think. Same deal with Maiden of the Lake I think. How many 4 mana inspire cards can we really expect to field anyway?

For something that you'd normally like to protect with taunts, it gives a poor stat distribution when it comes to aggression.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 12:19:14 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2015, 06:31:59 pm »
0

Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2015, 07:46:26 pm »
0

Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
Kind of like the brewmasters, you can imagine scenarios where the effect is good, but more often than not the effect will be a nuisance rather than a benefit when tempo matters most. Sure in Arena I guess it's an okay topdeck. Can survive a Flamestrike, then attack, then you can play it again for a bunch of mana. I think with the cards we have so far this wouldn't see really play. We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2015, 07:58:11 pm »
0

Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
Kind of like the brewmasters, you can imagine scenarios where the effect is good, but more often than not the effect will be a nuisance rather than a benefit when tempo matters most. Sure in Arena I guess it's an okay topdeck. Can survive a Flamestrike, then attack, then you can play it again for a bunch of mana. I think with the cards we have so far this wouldn't see really play. We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.

This seems kinda bad to me. I mean yeah there's some situations where it's good, but it seems like a punishment to me. 3 mana card and you can't use your hero power without losing tempo. I guess it's still a 2/5 for 3 mana, but it seems more like a use of the Inspire mechanic as a negative (kindof like Anubar Ambusher).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2015, 07:59:31 pm »
0

We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.
Ah, you mean in case we have any Undertaker-like cards which specifically call out the Inspire keyword? I'm kinda skeptical that there'll be enough of that to make a big difference... the Inspires we've seen so far have already had a pretty large variety of effects, and it'd be kinda weird to call that word out specifically when the cards which have it don't necessarily have much else in common. It's the same reason we don't have any cards specifically about Battlecries, except for Nerub'ar Weblord, which is generally considered a pretty weird and dumb card.

As for Coliseum Manager (the new 2/5) specifically... I doubt it'll ever be used in Constructed, except in some sort of Warsong Commander + new Inspire shenanigan combo deck, but I think it'll be better in Arena than people are giving it credit for. 2/5 is a solid body on turn 3, and the ability to heal it up and along with a free hero power for 5 mana and 0 net cards is kinda comparable to Azure Drake or a super-Gnomish Inventor, if you squint at it. I don't think it'll be a good card, though, because being unable to use your hero power without a big tempo loss is a problem.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2015, 08:33:31 pm »
0

@Inspire keyword:

There could be a card like Baron Rivendare or Feign Death that has an effect like "Activate the Inspire effects of your friendly minions". At this point I think they might need something like that to make a deck with inspire as the central theme viable. The cards with the Inspire tag have, dare I say, uninspiring stats and strength when considered in a vacuum.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 28, 2015, 08:49:48 pm »
0

I think Coliseum Manager will do fine in Control Warrior.  I'd run 3 cost 2/5 that said, "when you play this, take 2 damage", and I doubt Coliseum Manager will be worse than that super often, and if it is, I'm not sure Coliseum Manager is what was wrong with your deck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2015, 08:54:24 pm »
0

I'm failing to see how these effects are comparable.
EDIT: Ok. I see it now. You take two damge if it makes you not use your hero power once.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 11:19:37 am by Watno »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2015, 09:05:36 pm »
+1

I think the parallel is that Coliseum Manager in the worst case will prevent you from using your Hero Power once, which is like taking two damage.

Anyway, new card:


Flame Juggler
2 mana 2/3
Battlecry: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy.

Not the most exciting card; it's comparable to Knife Juggler, probably better turns 1-3 but worse afterwards. Really great against 1-drops like Leper Gnome, and solid in Arena. Also, via Reddit:

Quote
I hadn't thought about that. Isn't this the first two drop in the game that has a chance to trade with shielded minibot and survive?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 28, 2015, 09:39:56 pm »
0

I think the parallel is that Coliseum Manager in the worst case will prevent you from using your Hero Power once, which is like taking two damage.

Anyway, new card:


Flame Juggler
2 mana 2/3
Battlecry: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy.

Not the most exciting card; it's comparable to Knife Juggler, probably better turns 1-3 but worse afterwards. Really great against 1-drops like Leper Gnome, and solid in Arena. Also, via Reddit:

Quote
I hadn't thought about that. Isn't this the first two drop in the game that has a chance to trade with shielded minibot and survive?

On the list of generic stand-alone 2-drop body slot for Priest, this one seems pretty high up in terms of desirability.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 29, 2015, 10:23:13 am »
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Is it a random enemy, or a random minion? If it's a minion then it's decent, if it's an enemy then it's kind of bad.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2015, 10:33:32 am »
0

Is it a random enemy, or a random minion? If it's a minion then it's decent, if it's an enemy then it's kind of bad.
... Random enemy :(. Doesn't necessarily beat Mad Bomber in the role of killing 1-drops Turn 2.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #81 on: July 29, 2015, 10:51:00 am »
0

Is it a random enemy, or a random minion? If it's a minion then it's decent, if it's an enemy then it's kind of bad.
... Random enemy :(. Doesn't necessarily beat Mad Bomber in the role of killing 1-drops Turn 2.

Is that the correct translation? Because there was already a mistranslation on King's Defender. So I just want to be sure.

King's Defender only gains 1 durability if you have a minion with taunt. Not 1 for every minion with taunt.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2015, 11:00:32 am »
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Looking at the original text, im pretty sure "imigo aleatorio" is random enemy.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #83 on: July 29, 2015, 12:53:14 pm »
0

Two more new cards via IGN

Quote
Savage Combatant
4 mana
Druid Beast Minion
5/4
Inspire: Give your hero +2 attack this turn.

This doesn't have amazing stats, but it's straight up better than a 5/4 4 mana vanilla Kodo. Dunno if this will make Druid Beast viable. I'd suspect not, but it's interesting. Probably will turn up relatively regularly in Arena though as the stats are definitely good enough to draft.

Quote
Clockwork Knight
5 mana
Neutral Mech Minion
5/5
Battlecry: +1/+1 to a friendly Mech.

This seems playable. The stats are good enough to play in Arena without the battlecry and the +1/+1 effectively makes it a 6/6 in a Constructed Mech deck. Gives some options to put in the 5 drop spot for Mech decks. The only Mech currently run in this slot in Constructed decks is Antique Healbot, but this card is more aggressive than Healbot so I expect it to turn up in some Mech Mage decks instead of Healbot and it might make some other classes Mech decks more viable.

Edit: Now that I look at it most Mech Mages don't run Healbot, usually running Drakes and Loatheb in the 5 spot. Clockwork Knight gives them another choice. Not sure if it's good enough to replace a Drake or Loatheb though. Possibly?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:01:16 pm by Jorbles »
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #84 on: July 29, 2015, 01:04:31 pm »
0

Flame Juggler seems really really great in Arena. Not sure if I'd play it Constructed.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #85 on: July 29, 2015, 02:23:37 pm »
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Fel Reaver is a good 5 drop for Mech decks if BGH is unpopular (which it is now).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #86 on: July 29, 2015, 04:57:36 pm »
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Clockwork knight seems a bit slow for aggresive decks no? I mean, it's only a 5/5, yeah it gives +1/1 but aggressive mech decks can do so much better.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #87 on: July 29, 2015, 05:16:27 pm »
+1

2 new legends.

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell, gain divine shield

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell deal 3 damage to a random enemy.

First one seem not great, second one seem really good. Power word shield, or pally buffs can kill so many 1 and 2 drops, and it's body is already good for 3 mana.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #88 on: July 29, 2015, 06:11:19 pm »
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2 new legends.

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell, gain divine shield

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell deal 3 damage to a random enemy.

First one seem not great, second one seem really good. Power word shield, or pally buffs can kill so many 1 and 2 drops, and it's body is already good for 3 mana.
Ah, finally some power creep.

They tie in well with the Drakonkin Sorceror at 4 mana, so the synergy possible through building a deck with friendly target spells isn't limited to these 2 cards.

@ Savage Combatant
Well, there goes Lost Tallstrider's only potential niche as a 4-drop beast for Druid. This card could be solid.

@ Clockwork Knight
At least it's a mech, so it can come in early with Mechwarper. Still, a 5 mana body with a so-so ability isn't exactly what current mech decks are looking for. I think this card is overshadowed by almost all of the class-specific Mech-synergy cards, including Upgraded Repair Bot and Metaltooth Leaper.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #89 on: July 29, 2015, 07:07:28 pm »
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I'll be trying the new mech in a mech warrior :P Not because it's amazing, but you can curve very well with skrejank clunker.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2015, 07:34:54 pm »
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I'll be trying the new mech in a mech warrior :P Not because it's amazing, but you can curve very well with skrejank clunker.
It would be cool if it instead had an effect like "discard a random Mech and do X damage". That's more in line with the Tempo nature of Mech decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2015, 10:54:59 pm »
0

There appears to be another card reveal: Silent Knight

https://twitter.com/TrumpSC/status/626554004693106688/photo/1

3 Mana Neutral Minion
2/2
Stealth and Divine Shield

Tougher to remove than even Gilblin Stalker while stealthed, and the next turn it can be buffed to make a really good trade. This is one of those cards that, even if it's not high tier, will open up combo possibilities.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2015, 12:29:20 am »
0

There appears to be another card reveal: Silent Knight

https://twitter.com/TrumpSC/status/626554004693106688/photo/1

3 Mana Neutral Minion
2/2
Stealth and Divine Shield

Tougher to remove than even Gilblin Stalker while stealthed, and the next turn it can be buffed to make a really good trade. This is one of those cards that, even if it's not high tier, will open up combo possibilities.

Hm, at 3 mana I think it's iffy, but there's no other cost for it. Other stealth minions have combo possibilities, but T3 this guy T4 Blessing of Kings for example can give you a ridiculous trade. I don't think it's good enough unless you have buffing spells though, compares unfavorably to a 3 mana 3/4.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2015, 10:09:39 pm »
0

Silent Knight is the new best option for any deck that wants to stack buffs on a single target until they get silly.  It also provides redundancy for that type of thing. 
Shaman is probably the best home.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 10:14:20 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2015, 11:35:09 pm »
0

Silent Knight is the new best option for any deck that wants to stack buffs on a single target until they get silly.  It also provides redundancy for that type of thing. 
Shaman is probably the best home.

What buffs can Shaman stack on a single minion?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #95 on: July 31, 2015, 12:44:18 am »
0

Over the course of a game you could do some sweet Inner Fire instagib combos with a Priest deck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #96 on: July 31, 2015, 09:29:30 am »
0

Silent Knight is the new best option for any deck that wants to stack buffs on a single target until they get silly.  It also provides redundancy for that type of thing. 
Shaman is probably the best home.

What buffs can Shaman stack on a single minion?
Like, turn five, Rockbiter, Windfury, Ancestral Spirit, kill a yeti kill a yeti get another Silent Knight.

Most important point being Ancestral Spirit, it's the best buff spell in the game.  The Injured Blade master trick is sick, just putting it on a piloted shredder and trading is sick, and when you get into matchups that you know don't have a silence or polymorph than putting it on Sludge Belcher or EE can just stop aggro forever.  If Silent Knight is useful at all (not necessarily the case), it's in an Ancestral Spirit deck where Silent Knight is a place you can throw Ancestral Spirit and get some effect out of it even in situations where your board is getting wiped every turn.  He's not the ideal target for the Spirit, but most of the really awesome ones don't have tons of health so it's a safety net.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #97 on: July 31, 2015, 05:29:27 pm »
0

So a new card has been revealed for Warlock:

Demonfuse
2 - Mana Spell

Give a demon +3/+3. Give your opponent a Mana Crystal.

So, I had just started playing around with a Demonlock deck that uses Demonfire and it happens to still win games to get me to Rank 4. There's not enough time left in the season to try to get higher than that. This makes me kind of excited to try out this card.

So anyway Demonfire is inferior to Dark Bomb when it comes to damage, but it's flexibility in being able to buff the health of your friendly demons that are about to trade is quite nice. Mistress of Pain becomes quite helpful when it's been buffed by Demonfire and of course so is Imp Gang Boss. A bigger buff for the same mana has got to be even better right, even though it can't do direct damage?

I don't know how I feel about this card's drawback though. If you want tempo advantage right now or lots of immediate face damage, there's already Arcane Golem with the same effect. Demonfire is more suited for a board control swing, but the extra mana crystal is a problem if you're leaning in that direction because those Sludge Belcher's can come out sooner.

Any other thoughts here?

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #98 on: July 31, 2015, 06:18:30 pm »
0

It doesn't seem as good as Demonfire tbh. Demonfire can be used when you have no board presence, but this card is useless. It's like Rampage, but with a huge drawback.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #99 on: July 31, 2015, 06:23:29 pm »
0

I guess you could feasibly use it to do some big buff and kill someone when mana barely matters anymore in a demon themed zoo deck. Like Arcane Golem or Power Overwhelming but with really a specific requirement.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2015, 06:31:50 pm »
0

I guess you could feasibly use it to do some big buff and kill someone when mana barely matters anymore in a demon themed zoo deck. Like Arcane Golem or Power Overwhelming but with really a specific requirement.
When I think about it, it seems like +3/+3 early in the game on something like Voidwalker will usually be overkill. It gets better later in the game, but I think demonlock decks want things that help with board advantage early on. Being forced to use a card like this over Dark Bomb or Demonfire can be detrimental in the long run. I still want to try it out a bit as a 1-of.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2015, 06:53:35 pm »
0

I guess let's think about this a bit

Assuming you go first:
Turn 1
You
Flame Imp or Void Walker
Opponent
Pass or plays a 2/1 or a Chow or Coins a 2 drop (we'll ignore other things as these are the most common plays)
Turn 2
You
Demonfuse into getting 6/5 minion or 4/6 with Taunt.
Opponent
Has three mana, needs to use an early game removal spell plus whatever minion they have out, or an Owl or have a soft removal like Sap/Freezing Trap.

They can't really play anything this turn unless they saved the Coin (in which case they could play a 2 drop and trade their 1 drop plus removal.) So they only get to punish you hard for this if they play a 1 drop AND have removal AND a 2 drop. Otherwise they are probably only just removing the card and trying to come back onto the board later, in which case they get a slight advantage or they're just falling super behind on board. Maybe it's not so bad? It's kinda like playing an Innervate.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 07:29:28 pm by Jorbles »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2015, 10:37:50 pm »
0

I think the card also has value when the game is at the point where your opponent plays Sludge Belcher or Druid of the Claw turn 5. Imp Gang Boss + Demonfuse or 1/1 Imp + Demonfuse + 1 attack from Dire Wolf or Argus deals 5 damage right there to get through the big part of Belcher. On Turn 6 your opponent might have wanted to play Thaurissan anyway, so they'd waste the extra mana. On the other hand, they can play Dr. Boom a turn earlier.

Basically, the extra mana for your opponent is only a big issue if they can spend that on quality (mass) removal or a game winning combo. Playing an Ancient of Lore one turn sooner isn't amazing if the demonlock player got a big tempo swing from the Demonfuse.

Saying all this, I still feel like the card is one the weak side, but I'd wager it's not the worst thing since Felguard. If it destroyed your own mana crystal instead, then Demonfuse would be pretty awful.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #103 on: August 01, 2015, 09:32:57 pm »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2015, 10:03:49 pm »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
I would think screwing up your own tempo is worse than giving a boost to your opponent's tempo, no? Giving your opponent mana gives them a chance to answer your stuff sooner, but destroying your own mana makes them have less to have to answer to begin with.

Of course, the bonus of the effect itself is a factor in the worth of the cards.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 10:05:27 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2015, 10:26:02 pm »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2015, 10:41:01 pm »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2015, 03:55:10 am »
0

I would think screwing up your own tempo is worse than giving a boost to your opponent's tempo, no? Giving your opponent mana gives them a chance to answer your stuff sooner, but destroying your own mana makes them have less to have to answer to begin with.

On the other hand, if you're running Felguard, you can take that into account when building your deck. Your opponent might not be able to utilize his extra mana that well.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2015, 09:08:29 am »
0

The pre-purchase deal is pretty good, if you are into spending real money on cards.  A buck a pack is a good deal.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2015, 10:12:08 am »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.

What? If this is true I've been using the expression wrong my entire life. I'd interpret that as demonfuse being better than felguard. It's worse than every card in between felguard and demonfuse, but it's better than felguard.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2015, 10:19:03 am »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.

What? If this is true I've been using the expression wrong my entire life. I'd interpret that as demonfuse being better than felguard. It's worse than every card in between felguard and demonfuse, but it's better than felguard.

Agree with TA.  Take the inverse:

"The best thing since sliced bread" is a thing that surpasses the awesomeness of all things invented since sliced bread was created. 
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #111 on: August 02, 2015, 10:54:59 am »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.

What? If this is true I've been using the expression wrong my entire life. I'd interpret that as demonfuse being better than felguard. It's worse than every card in between felguard and demonfuse, but it's better than felguard.

Agree with TA.  Take the inverse:

"The best thing since sliced bread" is a thing that surpasses the awesomeness of all things invented since sliced bread was created.
Okay I see, that makes sense. But, where does that expression it imply that it is for sure not better that sliced bread?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 10:56:14 am by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2015, 11:01:01 am »
0

Okay I see, that makes sense. But, where does that expression it imply that it is for sure not better that sliced bread?
It doesn't.  At least not logically.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2015, 11:03:24 am »
0

The expression "best thing since sliced bread" isn't meant to convey that it is better than sliced bread, just that nothing that came out in the time since sliced bread was invented has been as good as whatever we are discussing now.

If you want to rate the new thing higher than sliced bread, you just say "best thing ever."
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2015, 11:44:06 am »
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Sliced bread is a pretty low standard to hold ourselves to.  I apologise on behalf of my countrymen for inflicting the Chorleywood process on the world.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2015, 11:45:16 am »
+1

The expression "best thing since sliced bread" isn't meant to convey that it is better than sliced bread, just that nothing that came out in the time since sliced bread was invented has been as good as whatever we are discussing now.

If you want to rate the new thing higher than sliced bread, you just say "best thing ever."

I believe that it is implied that sliced bread is still better.

In a timeline of A --- B --- C, "C is the best thing since B" implies that while nothing was better between events,  B is in fact still better. If that were not the case, you would either pick the next event back that WAS better (possibly A, possibly not) or as you say, rate it the "Best thing ever".

I suppose it's not explicit though. And word for word there's no implication on the value of B at all. At it's most basic, "C is the best thing since B" simply says that since event B nothing has happened that is better than C. The quality of B has no bearing on the statement at all.

So I guess I could see how the use of the statement varies depending on where you're from. I think my personal belief that it's implied that B is in fact better than C is probably a more inaccurate interpretation to the literal meaning of the phrase.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 11:46:26 am by Galzria »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2015, 12:21:15 pm »
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I think galzria is absolutely correct. purely logically, nothing is being said about B when we say "c is the best thing since b". However, practically, there's a reason we're choosing b as the cutoff point. I think it's pretty clearly implied that by making the statement "c is the best thing since b", you're also saying c is worse than b, otherwise why would you have arbitrarily chosen b as the cutoff?

For example, if I say something like "Zack greinke is on pace to have the lowest ERA by a pitcher since 2004", it's directly implying someone had a lower era in 2004.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2015, 12:23:35 pm »
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I interpret the expression to mean that "In the time range from the past point to the current point, excluding the boundaries, Item X is a local maximum in that range".

I'm pretty sure that's what it means.

My statement was factually incorrect therefore.  I meant that it's impossible for the common saying to be the most appropriate one, I didn't literally mean that it was impossible for his statement to be true. 

It's not possible for the head to head comparison X vs. Y in "X is the best $ since Y" to have any bearing on the truth value because the statement is understood to exclude the boundary point, if it doesn't exclude the boundary point it's a useless expression, or at least a tedious one when you have to name the moment ever so slightly after the last thing that exceeded X's $ness.


So yeah I was def making a false statement, but it was a "you know what I mean" kinda thing.  I think the card is horrible. Felguard is actually a plausible target for Sense Demons in certain Malganis handlock builds but a pump spell that equips you opponent with the extra mana to remove the thing you pumped is abysmal.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 12:25:16 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #118 on: August 02, 2015, 12:51:45 pm »
+1

BTT: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fia92/new_card_darnassus_panther_rider/
This one looks good for a change:
Quote
2 mana 2/3 druid card
Battlecry: Gain an empty mana crystal
Deathrattle: Destroy a mana crystal

It's kinda like Mechwarper for everything.
I think it's also the first card that has a Battlecry and a Deathrattle that are different.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #119 on: August 02, 2015, 12:54:14 pm »
+1

BTT: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fia92/new_card_darnassus_panther_rider/
This one looks good for a change:
Quote
2 mana 2/3 druid card
Battlecry: Gain an empty mana crystal
Deathrattle: Destroy a mana crystal

It's kinda like Mechwarper for everything.
I think it's also the first card that has a Battlecry and a Deathrattle that are different.

Oh boy. As someone who's been playing Druid lately, I looooove this card. It will also help loads against hunter and Mage (screw you, freezing trap and mirror entity!)
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2015, 12:58:23 pm »
0

I interpret the expression to mean that "In the time range from the past point to the current point, excluding the boundaries, Item X is a local maximum in that range".

I'm pretty sure that's what it means.

My statement was factually incorrect therefore.  I meant that it's impossible for the common saying to be the most appropriate one, I didn't literally mean that it was impossible for his statement to be true. 

It's not possible for the head to head comparison X vs. Y in "X is the best $ since Y" to have any bearing on the truth value because the statement is understood to exclude the boundary point, if it doesn't exclude the boundary point it's a useless expression, or at least a tedious one when you have to name the moment ever so slightly after the last thing that exceeded X's $ness.
Yeah I don't want to have to figure out the exact thing that's immediate better than something else.

So yeah I was def making a false statement, but it was a "you know what I mean" kinda thing.  I think the card is horrible. Felguard is actually a plausible target for Sense Demons in certain Malganis handlock builds but a pump spell that equips you opponent with the extra mana to remove the thing you pumped is abysmal.

Plausibly, but I've never seen it used like that. Of course, I've never seen Demonfuse either. I guess with Felguard you can get around the drawback in some ways. The value of Demonfuse fuse depends on the discrete attack values you get off the Demon you pump. Like Imp Gang boss can kill a Belcher in one hit once pumped. I was thinking you'd play Demonfuse to try to kill your opponent before they can draw their removal, but that seems ultimately futile now that I think about it.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 01:07:53 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2015, 01:11:50 pm »
0

BTT: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fia92/new_card_darnassus_panther_rider/
This one looks good for a change:
Quote
2 mana 2/3 druid card
Battlecry: Gain an empty mana crystal
Deathrattle: Destroy a mana crystal

It's kinda like Mechwarper for everything.
I think it's also the first card that has a Battlecry and a Deathrattle that are different.

Oh boy. As someone who's been playing Druid lately, I looooove this card. It will also help loads against hunter and Mage (screw you, freezing trap and mirror entity!)
Even a 2 mana 2/3, "Give yourself a half-Innervate next turn if this survives" sounds neat. It even doubles for a Wild Growth if you have a brewmaster in your deck for some reason.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #122 on: August 02, 2015, 01:12:02 pm »
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It's like bidding in Bridge.  You don't only pay attention to the meaning of the words: you have to think about the space of possibilities, and what it means that they went for that option over reasonable alternatives.

Where does Darnassus fit into Druid?  Ramp isn't running 2-drops anyway, and it's not really a Mechwarper if you want to try aggro as the "cost reduction" is only once per turn.  It's better than a 2/3 taunt, but is it going to survive often?  Maybe silencing is where it's at, but then it's getting pretty expensive.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #123 on: August 02, 2015, 01:14:14 pm »
0

It's like bidding in Bridge.  You don't only pay attention to the meaning of the words: you have to think about the space of possibilities, and what it means that they went for that option over reasonable alternatives.

Where does Darnassus fit into Druid?  Ramp isn't running 2-drops anyway, and it's not really a Mechwarper if you want to try aggro as the "cost reduction" is only once per turn.  It's better than a 2/3 taunt, but is it going to survive often?  Maybe silencing is where it's at, but then it's getting pretty expensive.
Most Silences are better against enemies that your own minions. It's another card that works well with Wailing Soul though. It can also hurt a player who steals it with Sylvanas.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #124 on: August 02, 2015, 01:42:59 pm »
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Where does Darnassus fit into Druid?  Ramp isn't running 2-drops anyway, and it's not really a Mechwarper if you want to try aggro as the "cost reduction" is only once per turn.  It's better than a 2/3 taunt, but is it going to survive often?  Maybe silencing is where it's at, but then it's getting pretty expensive.

I think it's quite good vs aggro. one of the problems i have is that while on the play as ramp vs. aggro, nothing -> wild growth just isn't good enough. this will help to alleviate that issue. i think i prefer it to zombie chow as an anti aggro tech. but we'll have to see how that works out. it might not make the cut but it's definitely in contention
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #125 on: August 02, 2015, 01:55:42 pm »
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Dunno how long it's been up there, but there's a 2/1 Charge with Divine Shield for 3.  Surely that's worth talking about.  Wolf rider sees play, and I can't think of any minion I wouldn't happily axe an attack from to get divine shield
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #126 on: August 02, 2015, 03:10:51 pm »
0

Dunno how long it's been up there, but there's a 2/1 Charge with Divine Shield for 3.  Surely that's worth talking about.  Wolf rider sees play, and I can't think of any minion I wouldn't happily axe an attack from to get divine shield

There's a big difference between 2 and 3 attack though.  2 attack is only going to trade with raptors, and they aren't particularly common.  I like it more than Bluegill, but that's not such a strong statement.  In the late game you're going to play a card like this for burst so I still like Wolfrider more.

i think i prefer it to zombie chow as an anti aggro tech.

I think this is right.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 03:13:50 pm by qmech »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #127 on: August 02, 2015, 03:20:03 pm »
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Wolfrider is played in decks like Face Hunter though. In constructed decks where you'd play Wolfrider, late game isn't a consideration, and you aren't going to be using it for trades. Forcing 2 separate hits from your opponent to remove it definitely seems good for Face Hunter/Aggro Paladin.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #128 on: August 02, 2015, 03:27:20 pm »
0

Intuitively I'd say that I wouldn't run it in Pally aggro. It's probably going to deal something like 4 damage total which is something I'd expect to get out of a 1-drop, and it's a pain in the ass to remove it from your hand before playing a Divine Favor.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #129 on: August 02, 2015, 04:00:38 pm »
0

Dunno how long it's been up there, but there's a 2/1 Charge with Divine Shield for 3.  Surely that's worth talking about.  Wolf rider sees play, and I can't think of any minion I wouldn't happily axe an attack from to get divine shield

There's a big difference between 2 and 3 attack though.  2 attack is only going to trade with raptors, and they aren't particularly common.  I like it more than Bluegill, but that's not such a strong statement.  In the late game you're going to play a card like this for burst so I still like Wolfrider more.
There are a few pretty strong raptors though, such as Knife Juggler, Sorceror's Apprentice, and Wild Pyromancer. Even aggro decks probably want to take those cards out in order not to get out-tempo/aggro'd.

I don't always want to talk about cards unless they're brought up in the thread, like the 2 mana 2/4 that can only attack if inspired or the 5 mana spell for Mage that deals 8 damage to a minion.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #130 on: August 02, 2015, 04:15:55 pm »
0

Perhaps the more relevant point is that it's trading down, even if you are left with the weak body afterwards.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #131 on: August 02, 2015, 04:30:45 pm »
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It's basically a mini-Argent Commander.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #132 on: August 02, 2015, 04:41:23 pm »
0

Argent Commander is slightly less bad as you aren't so worried about exact mana values of trades by the time you can play it, and your opponent might not have a tiny minion on the board waiting to clear the 4/2.  They're both bad in constructed, but Commander is reasonable in arena.  I'd take a 3/3 over Horserider almost always.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #133 on: August 02, 2015, 04:58:08 pm »
+1

Well, there's another new card:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fizcd/new_card_wrathguard/

2 Mana Warlock Minion
4/3 demon
"Whenever" this minion takes damage, also deal that amount to your hero.

Okay so a 2 Mana version of Flame Imp, at least early on. Later, it can make Molten Shadowflame and Oil + Blade Flurry even deadlier.

One problem with it is there are a whole bunch of aggro decks right now, and aggro vs. aggro is often decided by a few health points. Just like Flame Imp is a lot worse than Voidwalker vs. aggro. The other problem is that a card like this wants to trade up, but you take so much damage for trading with an 8/8 for example.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #134 on: August 02, 2015, 06:47:34 pm »
0

People don't run pitlord. This is going to often do the same damage, or almost as much, as pitlord would. And it's stats are worse for its mana cost than Pitlord. So unless demon becomes a thing, I don't think this will be good. In arena it's decent though. The stats are good and health is less of an issue.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #135 on: August 02, 2015, 07:23:01 pm »
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I think a huge problem is that it might singlehandedly lose games to Control Warrior.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #136 on: August 02, 2015, 07:27:35 pm »
0

I think a huge problem is that it might singlehandedly lose games to Control Warrior.

Haha! That's a trolden video for sure. someone losing to a 30 damage shield slam topdeck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #137 on: August 02, 2015, 09:53:52 pm »
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It's a piloted shredder result, so that's gonna happen.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #138 on: August 03, 2015, 12:15:05 pm »
0

New card. http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fkp51/new_rogue_card_5_mana_37_combo_3_attack/

Rogue, 5 Mana
Shado-Pan Cavalry
3/7
Combo: +3 Attack

Looks really nice for arena. Don't think it'll be good enough for constructed, even with support it doesn't feel like it would surpass Boulderfist Ogre enough to be viable. Nice budget option though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #139 on: August 03, 2015, 12:27:15 pm »
+1

I think the 2/1 Divine Shield charge is good in no-board-presence hunter.  If you kill a knife juggler that's fine, but you can also just ram face with it and it's a pain to kill it.

Wolf Rider does 3 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 3 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

Argent Infant does 2 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 4 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

So usually they are kinda the same as a turn 3 play.  Wolf rider is better because it provides more total damage as an end-of-game play.  But there's this bug where I can't put more than 2 Wolf Riders in my deck so this guy is actually competing against Arcane Golem, and I think he compares favorably there.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #140 on: August 03, 2015, 01:32:22 pm »
0

I think the 2/1 Divine Shield charge is good in no-board-presence hunter.  If you kill a knife juggler that's fine, but you can also just ram face with it and it's a pain to kill it.

Wolf Rider does 3 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 3 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

Argent Infant does 2 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 4 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

So usually they are kinda the same as a turn 3 play.  Wolf rider is better because it provides more total damage as an end-of-game play.  But there's this bug where I can't put more than 2 Wolf Riders in my deck so this guy is actually competing against Arcane Golem, and I think he compares favorably there.
It can do more damage than Wolfrider if it survives an AoE that would normally kill Wolfrider such as Consecration of Whirlwind. It won't surpass Arcane Golem's face damage though. I'm not sure which of Wolfrider and Arcane Golem you'd you'd swap for this new charger, if any.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #141 on: August 03, 2015, 05:10:37 pm »
0

I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats. Cards like Blackwing Technician, and now Shado-Pan Cavalry and Master of Ceremonies.

That kind of design just seems excessively cautious. The result, in my opinion, is boring cards. If you're going to do a card that's nothing but pumped-up stats, at least make it so that the theoretical best case is crazy, like with Frostwolf Warlord. Would Master of Ceremonies even be broken if she got +2/+2 _per_ spell damage minion instead of just once?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 05:11:40 pm by blueblimp »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #142 on: August 03, 2015, 05:30:12 pm »
0

Well, a 6/4 for 3 mana is more than slightly-above-curve.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #143 on: August 03, 2015, 05:32:07 pm »
0

I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats. Cards like Blackwing Technician, and now Shado-Pan Cavalry and Master of Ceremonies.

That kind of design just seems excessively cautious. The result, in my opinion, is boring cards. If you're going to do a card that's nothing but pumped-up stats, at least make it so that the theoretical best case is crazy, like with Frostwolf Warlord. Would Master of Ceremonies even be broken if she got +2/+2 _per_ spell damage minion instead of just once?

Yeah I sort of feel this way too. You jump through hoops to get like a 1-1.5 mana boost in stats when the payoff isn't even that great compared to cards with crazy abilities, especially at the higher mana level as is the case for Shado-Pan Cavalry. At three mana though, it's not so bad to have a "stat monster", as early on you just want stuff to give you the initiative. Like, I don't mind Tinkertown Technician or Blackwing Technician since they at least fit it with a a novel theme that's core to their expansion. Each expansion should have a couple of those.

This card though, Master of Ceremonies, like why spell damage minions? The spell damage minions pay a stat cost, but you should be making up for that with spells, not a minion that makes you break even stat-wise.

Anyway 6/4 with a conditional effect is already covered by Volcanic Drake. By the time you can reliably make use of its bonus, 4 health minions aren't all that great anymore.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2015, 01:50:17 am »
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Well, a 6/4 for 3 mana is more than slightly-above-curve.
At most generous, it's 1.5 mana above curve. But even a 4 mana 6/4 would probably not be played in constructed, since it doesn't do much that Lost Tallstrider doesn't. (For example, it trades with the front half of a Piloted Shredder.) So in practice we're talking about less-than-1-mana-above-curve.

But my point is not that 6/4 stats aren't strong (although it's true, they aren't), it's that 6/4 stats are boring. Playing a 3 mana 6/4 is not going to make any highlight reels.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2015, 02:25:58 pm »
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Looks like Battlecry-referencing effects are coming back.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19822389

4 Mana Minion (Neutral Epic)
4/4
Whenever you play a minion card with Battlecry, gain +1/+1

Edit: Looks like there are some non-minions with battlecry ex. Glaivezooka.

Interestingness of the design aside, this card looks like one to watch out for because you find lots of quality minions across all mana costs when dipping into the battlecry tag. At 1 mana 1/2 with the same effect you'd have something close to pre-nerf Undertaker.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 02:56:23 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2015, 04:56:02 pm »
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I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats.
It's because Blizzard is not very good at designing ccgs.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #147 on: August 04, 2015, 05:58:33 pm »
+1

I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats.
It's because Blizzard is not very good at designing ccgs.

Hrm, I'm still annoyed that a neutral, Dr. Boom is strictly better that another neutral, War Golem. There was no need to go down the path of Legendary-can-be-strictly-better except as admission that they screwed up with War Golem's power level or the desire to have people acquire new content in a more forced way.

I'm still happy that they release cards that have powerful niche effects that may only be worth it in the future when more cards are released. You can bet I'll be all over a Wailing Soul style deck if it ever becomes viable. Sadly I'm not seeing too much off-the-wall stuff like that in these recent reveals. I'd say Blackrock Mountain's cards are a good deal more interesting than the Grand Tournament cards even though most ended up being too weak to enter the high-level constructed scene.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 06:02:10 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #148 on: August 04, 2015, 06:11:14 pm »
+1

Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #149 on: August 04, 2015, 06:18:44 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 06:19:45 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #150 on: August 04, 2015, 06:38:18 pm »
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I feel part of the issue is more constraints on utility creatures. M:tG in particular gives itself more complexity to play around with through activated abilities, which I doubt will enter Hearthstone anytime soon.

None of the cards revealed so far feel like keystone cards, meaning cards you explicitly build a deck around. Mana Addict is a keystone. Grim Patron is a keystone, I'd argue Mechwarper is a keystone. Odds are I'm underestimating Inspire, but I've yet to see something that makes me want to try building a deck around it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #151 on: August 04, 2015, 07:11:51 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.

I like Dr. Boom. It goes in every deck and takes up an expensive minion card slot from every deck, which otherwise would have been a less versatile legendary in many cases.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #152 on: August 04, 2015, 07:19:43 pm »
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I feel part of the issue is more constraints on utility creatures. M:tG in particular gives itself more complexity to play around with through activated abilities, which I doubt will enter Hearthstone anytime soon.

None of the cards revealed so far feel like keystone cards, meaning cards you explicitly build a deck around. Mana Addict is a keystone. Grim Patron is a keystone, I'd argue Mechwarper is a keystone. Odds are I'm underestimating Inspire, but I've yet to see something that makes me want to try building a deck around it.

It's true, eh? We haven't seen anything that really encourages you to make an inspire deck. All it takes is a couple or really good inspire cards. With those in existence, all the inspire and inspire support cards shoot up in value. If they think cards like Coldarra Drake are going to single-handedly make inspire work, then they are mistaken.

I think the closest "keystone" card we've seen so far is Frost Giant, but mainly for Echo Mage. That's cool because the Giants in general push for certain playstyles and have helped create some powerful deck archetypes in the past (Molten + Mountain for Handlock and Sea Giant for new Imp-losion style zoo). Frost Giants keep their lowered cost when copied with Echo Mage after all, and work well with Duplicate and Effigy. Unfortunately getting good value out Frost Giants takes time and needs support from cards like Garrison Commander, Fallen Hero, and maybe Maiden of the Lake to pan out.

It might still be too slow and not a very good deck, but low-cost Frost Giants is at least a dream that can be aimed for throughout the continued lifetime of Hearthstone.

Dr. Boom annoys me in general.

I like Dr. Boom. It goes in every deck and takes up an expensive minion card slot from every deck, which otherwise would have been a less versatile legendary in many cases.
Yeah I guess its not so bad to have a generic high mana value card that fits in most decks. Ragnaros just doesn't cut it anymore, though Sylvanas also works in lots of places.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #153 on: August 04, 2015, 08:01:14 pm »
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I think the Inspire one drop seems like the most viable card in the set so far.  Turn one it is great.  Later turns, you don't want to let someone attack into it before it has gained attack, but it shouldn't be too difficult to jam it in just before a hero power activation you would have done anyway.

In mage it is strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman, which is cute.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #154 on: August 04, 2015, 08:28:31 pm »
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It's not strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman in mage since it uses upyour hero power, so you can't deal 2 damage with it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #155 on: August 04, 2015, 10:23:46 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #156 on: August 04, 2015, 11:22:45 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.
It's more like the only worthy big minions happen to be Legendaries. Yeah, I think the game's become a lot more cruel to new players than it was before Naxx when I started.

I think the Inspire one drop seems like the most viable card in the set so far.  Turn one it is great.  Later turns, you don't want to let someone attack into it before it has gained attack, but it shouldn't be too difficult to jam it in just before a hero power activation you would have done anyway.

In mage it is strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman, which is cute.
I regard most low-mana, 1-attack minions that can increase their attack power as having some worth just because of Hobgoblin. Any deck that makes use of early game 1-attack minions can turn them into mid-game cards with Hobgoblin. Back when Mech-Mage was a thing, it was nice that Hobgoblin could boost Mana Wyrm, Cogmaster, Annoy-o-tron, and Micro Machine.

Edit: Spelling
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 11:25:45 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #157 on: August 05, 2015, 08:55:57 am »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.

Check it out:

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19817948/the-grand-tournament-at-gamescom-8-5-2015

They're finally going to give rewards besides card backs based on your Rank at the end of each season so long as you pass Rank 20. The better your Rank, the more golden cards you get, bit the less dust you're rewarded (though it doesn't look like much dust to begin with).

Also, there are a whole bunch of newly revealed cards in that blog post. There's a new "Joust" mechanic: both players reveal a random minion from their deck, and if the card belonging to the initiator of the joust costs more, that card gets a bonus effect. Ex. There's a 5 mana 5/5 that, if it wins a joust, restores 7 health to your hero.

In other news, inspire minions continue to be have stats that are woefully below curve.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 08:57:13 am by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2015, 09:06:24 am »
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Joust (along with actual cards that were presented) seems to encourage control paladin
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2015, 09:08:49 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card! Also some of these actually look decent. They seem to want Warrior to play lots of Taunts, but that buffs seems good if you get it on two minions, sometimes even 1. Master jouster seems pretty strong too vs. aggro.  A card that actually helps control decks a lot. The paladin card is cool too, although right now they run more midrange stuff. It has potential though, and the heal is pretty big. That 1 drop is interesting too. Will it make turn 1 Injured Kvaldr into circle a thing? Maybe not, but it ups the value potential for priest to play circle. Old school Injured blademaster Priest gets a buff :P

EDIT: The legends aren't great. Gromok is too much of a win more card, but MAYBE since Shaman is getting a buff you might pump enough totems out to make it work. And Skeleton Knight is a big iffy for the stats. It's cool that it can come back, and in heavy control that might be good. But control vs control it's terrible. And low health vs aggro is bad. Doesn't seem strong.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:11:23 am by KingZog3 »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #160 on: August 05, 2015, 09:10:46 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #161 on: August 05, 2015, 09:35:59 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo
They just keep wanting to make Lava shock good.

I like that Injured 1-drop (also slight buff to Resurrect) and Gormok. Zoo decks usually have a couple of turns where they have a massive board, and over-confident token decks have the option to include this.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #162 on: August 05, 2015, 09:36:31 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo

Mean, yeah, but I'll give it a try anyway in the new slow shaman decks they're pushing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #163 on: August 05, 2015, 09:52:02 am »
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Some more new cards here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/968-new-card-reveals-from-gamescom-new-mechanic-joust

Not sure I like the idea of this Jousting thing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2015, 10:57:58 am »
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Some more new cards here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/968-new-card-reveals-from-gamescom-new-mechanic-joust

Not sure I like the idea of this Jousting thing.
Worth noting that every single joust card ia a Battlecry and so interacts with the Crowd Favourite (4 mana 4/4 that gaina +1/+1 per Battlecry minion you play) and Nerub'ar Weblord. But like I don't see why I would use the 1 mana 1/2 jouster over Zombie Chow. The Armored Warhorse looks interesting, but I can't visualize what deck would want it. The value of the Tuskarr Jouster and Master Jouster seem more apparent though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #165 on: August 05, 2015, 11:26:17 am »
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Injured Kvaldir + Ancestral Healing = 2/4 Taunt for 1 Mana (2 cards)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #166 on: August 05, 2015, 02:54:02 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #167 on: August 05, 2015, 03:09:28 pm »
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Some of these cards are looking better - I'm sure Aviana is not viable at all but I'm going to hope I pull one to try shenanigans.

I can see Joust becoming annoying, but it's not like there isn't precedent for it. M:tG had a similar mechanic called "clash". IIRC people weren't that fond of it, but it was much more consistent than it looked. (Although for the M:tG version, each player revealed the top card, then each player chooses to leave it on top or put it at the bottom. So even though the mechanic was random, the better player could still make better filtering decisions, and revealing a cheap card meant you could make sure you didn't draw that card next turn.)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #168 on: August 05, 2015, 03:59:18 pm »
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Some of these cards are looking better - I'm sure Aviana is not viable at all but I'm going to hope I pull one to try shenanigans.

I can see Joust becoming annoying, but it's not like there isn't precedent for it. M:tG had a similar mechanic called "clash". IIRC people weren't that fond of it, but it was much more consistent than it looked. (Although for the M:tG version, each player revealed the top card, then each player chooses to leave it on top or put it at the bottom. So even though the mechanic was random, the better player could still make better filtering decisions, and revealing a cheap card meant you could make sure you didn't draw that card next turn.)

MtG has more tools for controlling what's on top of your deck, though. Hearthstone has basically nothing.

OTOH, MtG requires (almost) every deck to run a bunch of cards that cost 0.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #169 on: August 05, 2015, 04:18:36 pm »
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Joust = Aggro counter balance
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #170 on: August 05, 2015, 04:30:58 pm »
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So, is it just me or does the rogue legendary look really good for a control rogue? Also great in arena

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #171 on: August 05, 2015, 04:46:37 pm »
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So, is it just me or does the rogue legendary look really good for a control rogue? Also great in arena
I don't know if he's a reason to go control Rogue, but it would work quite well in that deck. It's like multiple big drops packed into one card. It's a step up from Malorne.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #172 on: August 05, 2015, 04:48:38 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.

I don't think there will be Joust decks, and even if they are they still need stuff to play early game, and the opponent will often play some expensive cards.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #173 on: August 05, 2015, 04:49:40 pm »
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Aviana might be powerful if a Thaurissan cost reduction happens after the "cost (1)" reduction. That would make all minions whose cost is reduced by Thaurissan cost 0 mana once you play this, and so you can drop a whole bunch on minions at once with this turn 9.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 04:51:25 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #174 on: August 05, 2015, 04:50:57 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.

I don't think there will be Joust decks, and even if they are they still need stuff to play early game, and the opponent will often play some expensive cards.
Depending on how good the cards are there may be a few decks with a couple of Joust cards in them.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #175 on: August 05, 2015, 04:55:48 pm »
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Yeah, but I don't think it will be a defining part of those decks, but rather the best Joust cards thrown into control decks.

Aviana looks strong with Thaurissan because it will allow you to play one extra minion per cost reduce. I see no way minions becoem free unless Thaurissan activates while Aviana is in play.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #176 on: August 05, 2015, 06:37:28 pm »
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I dont think Joust is meant to be a thing to build around, more just a control deck mechanic.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #177 on: August 05, 2015, 06:40:41 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #178 on: August 05, 2015, 06:57:12 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

I disagree. The 5/6 taunt divine shield seems good vs. aggro. They might be meta game calls, but they are good in higher cost decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #179 on: August 05, 2015, 07:20:39 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2015, 07:27:58 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Could you make a Druid Ramp deck with many Jousting cards? You don't have a lot of low cost minions in a Ramp deck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2015, 08:33:58 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Could you make a Druid Ramp deck with many Jousting cards? You don't have a lot of low cost minions in a Ramp deck.

This is what I was thinking.  I'd win most jousts with my current Ramp deck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #182 on: August 05, 2015, 09:08:19 pm »
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You can hardly call that a deck designed around Joust, since it already works without it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #183 on: August 05, 2015, 10:03:41 pm »
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You can hardly call that a deck designed around Joust, since it already works without it.
What's cool about the joust mechanic is that it's not really an archetype that truly needs self-support, just like Battlecry minions don't need other Battlecry minions to provide value. For joust you just need a high curve deck, and you have different above-curve effects to choose from. Not to say any of the joust cards seen so far are super powers.

The 5/6 joust minion trades really well with most popular minions below 7 mana if you win the joust, and does a little bit more for you than Sylvanas against aggro.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #184 on: August 05, 2015, 11:08:23 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #185 on: August 05, 2015, 11:13:35 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"

That sounds terrible. I think they will enter in control decks that aren't focused on the jousting, but the jousting is good because they run big minions. Maybe new giant decks? Control pally, control shaman. They may end up being tier 2 kind of decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #186 on: August 05, 2015, 11:14:52 pm »
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I completely failed to notice that it only reveals minions until now. That changes quite a bit.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #187 on: August 06, 2015, 12:46:49 am »
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I completely failed to notice that it only reveals minions until now. That changes quite a bit.

It's quite a big deal. Pushes control and isn't just a random effect. :P
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #188 on: August 06, 2015, 09:37:50 am »
+1

If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"

That sounds terrible. I think they will enter in control decks that aren't focused on the jousting, but the jousting is good because they run big minions. Maybe new giant decks? Control pally, control shaman. They may end up being tier 2 kind of decks.
Polymorph was a very viable Magic deck, it ran 59 noncreatures cards and 1 creature card.  It's hard to play 29 spells and 1 minion right now, but each new set will make it more possible to do that because we'll get more spells that are similar in quality to minions of the same cost, like Flamecannon.

Right now with the joust cards we've seen so far there's not enough quantity and quality in the jousters to motivate you to skew your whole deck towards it.  But I think we might see more joust cards.

I really don't think the joust cards will end up being cards you just hurl into control decks with no deckbuilding consideration though.  In Magic, "reveal a random card of your deck and check it for a certain quality" has always resulted in totally building around the card or totally refusing to use it at all.  Vampire Nocturnus, Polymorph, Cascade, Delver of Secrets, and Clone Shell all turned out that way (Clone Shell counting as an example of "totally refusing to use this in a competitive deck at all", it was not good enough).

Even though this mechanic seems somewhat less affected by the buff trigger than those other random reveals, the way they are designed so far makes it difficult to play the cards in control unless you know who's going to win the joust.  If you have 6 mana, a Master Jouster, a Sludge Belcher, and a Cairne Bloodhoof in hand, you're going to play Sludge Belcher if you need taunt to stay alive, and Cairne Bloodhoof if you need to generate long term advantage but your health total is ok.  And if that's how you're going to end up playing your deck anyway, why not run a Piloted Shredder or Shieldmaiden instead at that point?  Restoring health to hero and buffing to enough stats to win a trade are also things where you need to know the outcome in order to play the card over something else in your hand.  The only kind of effect I can think of where you could be ok to joust-n-pray is drawing cards, which is what Skeleton Knight does, but they were mega cautious with him so the card you draw is pretty terrible (needed at least 5 health to be worth a serious look).
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 09:39:27 am by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2015, 01:32:24 pm »
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Dark Portal
3 mana Neutral Minion
0/2
If this card is discarded, summon a 6/3 (Take that, Millers).

Dark Portal/Feel Reaver Combo! But they have to be in the same kingdom :P.

They gone done it:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22332-fist-of-jaraxxus

4 Mana Rare Warlock Spell
When you play or discard this, deal 4 damage to a random enemy.

A Flamecannon that can hit face for way more mana. Normally, hitting face would suck, but when you're hoping for a finish with Doomguard or Soulfire hitting face can give you lethal. Could be useful down the road.

P.S. heh, "Feel" Reaver.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2015, 01:39:32 pm »
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Zooooooooooo!
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2015, 01:40:46 pm »
+1

This one looks really nice I think.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2015, 01:49:21 pm »
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This one looks really nice I think.

<Charged Hammer Image>
I was just about to post that one. Totally came out of left field given the totem stuff they were pushing for.

"Try our free demo trial for 2 damage a turn for 4 turns before deciding if charged hero power is right for you". Hey, maybe Shaman wouldn't be as desperate for card draw if they could use their hero power to good effect.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #193 on: August 07, 2015, 02:00:33 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2015, 02:06:41 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
The 4 durability is a problem so long as you need to preserve your life total, which Shaman does need to do generally. It curves into Doomhammer and Powermace + hero power. If there was some other as-yet-unseen synergy with this card, it could push this card over the top.

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #195 on: August 07, 2015, 02:15:03 pm »
+1

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #196 on: August 07, 2015, 02:43:37 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
I don't think Shaman would play Stormforged Axe for 3 mana, so I don't think they'd play this at 4 mana. Shaman doesn't really have weapon synergy cards either besides Doomhammer + Rockbiter.

Then again Shaman already had big minions and spells to easily kill 3+ health minions, so the stats of this weapon kind of compliment the Shaman arsenal.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #197 on: August 07, 2015, 03:21:32 pm »
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Druid gets a strictly better Holy Smite, makes me want to see if I can't resurrect Gadgetzan Druid.  Though that's not necessary for the card to just be plain good, I suspect. 

There's another Silver Hand Recruits matter, and that really annoys me because it makes Paladin swingier based on whether they draw their 3 mana spell, whatever it's called again.

New shaman weapon is probably ok in decks with Powermace + Arcane Nullifier.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #198 on: August 07, 2015, 03:24:41 pm »
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Flavor win: Priest now has the best "Restore N health" spell, finally.
Flavor loss: Aggro warrior minion named "Alexstraza's champion" is actually a horrible nombo with Alexstraza.  Also my name is Alex, and I don't like it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #199 on: August 07, 2015, 04:25:13 pm »
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Flavor win: Priest now has the best "Restore N health" spell, finally.
Flavor loss: Aggro warrior minion named "Alexstraza's champion" is actually a horrible nombo with Alexstraza.  Also my name is Alex, and I don't like it.
Priest: That's a card that probably should have been in the classic set, with Holy Fire coming in later.
Warrior: It seems that it's a nombo with pops too. Thought it would be a joust card based on the art. It does look like the most natural fit for a dragon synergy card so far.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #200 on: August 07, 2015, 04:57:22 pm »
0

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #201 on: August 07, 2015, 05:38:10 pm »
0

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.

Maybe, activating it yourself does seem like what you should do, but you'd probably prefer activating it with a Doomhammer or a Blingtron. I think you probably just run one of these (if any at all), the fact that the second one doesn't really provide any great benefit really makes me think you probably aren't going to want to run two.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #202 on: August 07, 2015, 05:48:14 pm »
0

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.

Maybe, activating it yourself does seem like what you should do, but you'd probably prefer activating it with a Doomhammer or a Blingtron. I think you probably just run one of these (if any at all), the fact that the second one doesn't really provide any great benefit really makes me think you probably aren't going to want to run two.
In that case, your strategy had to take into account that you likely won't have this hero power for most of the game if at all, but may end up with it at some point, in case you'd prefer to have totems.

Breaking this with Blingtron is of course risky because you're likely to give your opponent a weapon when they didn't have one before, as opposed to you just having a Power Mace or sometthing. You get a 3/4 out of the deal, so it generally doesn't look like something you want to be doing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #203 on: August 07, 2015, 06:22:05 pm »
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Yeah, I don't think it's good enough to build a whole strategy around. Nice to have if you can fit the cards to get it going quickly, but you can't count on this as the backbone of your deck. Maybe a fallback if whatever you're trying to do in the earlier game doesn't work.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #204 on: August 07, 2015, 11:58:22 pm »
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Have you tried thinking about it this way: in the right deck, I would pay 4 mana for a 2 attack weapon that had infinite durability.  And the shaman weapon is strictly better than that weapon.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #205 on: August 08, 2015, 01:31:30 am »
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Have you tried thinking about it this way: in the right deck, I would pay 4 mana for a 2 attack weapon that had infinite durability.  And the shaman weapon is strictly better than that weapon.
Hmm, you know I'm not even sure this isn't better than a straight up Shadowform for 4 mana.

Shadowform's problem is that it's slow. Playing it in turn 3 sets you behind on the board and you have to constantly spend 2 mana to deal 2 damage. With the Shaman Weapon, you spend health instead of mana for the first 4 charges, which means you aren't set back nearly as much in the early turns after equipping the weapon. After the deathrattle, you'll typically have more spare mana to use on the hero power, maybe even with hero power booster cards like Maiden of the Lake.

It like that they didn't just offer totem tribe to Shaman in this expansion.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #206 on: August 08, 2015, 03:44:51 pm »
+1

Buh?

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22334-astral-communion

Astral Communication
4 Mana Druid Spell
Gain 10 Mana Crystals.
Discard your hand.

Don't know what to make of this one. At 4 mana it's hard to combo it with stuff like Loot Hoarder and Acolytes while still getting value out of it. Works well with Innervate though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #207 on: August 08, 2015, 04:51:56 pm »
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Buh?

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22334-astral-communion

Astral Communication
4 Mana Druid Spell
Gain 10 Mana Crystals.
Discard your hand.

Don't know what to make of this one. At 4 mana it's hard to combo it with stuff like Loot Hoarder and Acolytes while still getting value out of it. Works well with Innervate though.

woah. no idea if this works but it's sweet
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #208 on: August 08, 2015, 06:37:25 pm »
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Why does the card say "gain 10 mana crystals" and not "gain 9 mana crystals".  At first I thought the card was supposed to convey, "Ok, we need to convey that you're going to be at the mana cap for the rest of the game using a finite number of mana crystals gained", but 9 is the number that conveys that, not 10.  You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

Does 10 rather than 9 mean you're getting a Excess Mana for each of these crystals beyond 10?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 06:39:10 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #209 on: August 08, 2015, 07:03:26 pm »
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I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #210 on: August 08, 2015, 07:04:00 pm »
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Why does the card say "gain 10 mana crystals" and not "gain 9 mana crystals".  At first I thought the card was supposed to convey, "Ok, we need to convey that you're going to be at the mana cap for the rest of the game using a finite number of mana crystals gained", but 9 is the number that conveys that, not 10.  You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

Does 10 rather than 9 mean you're getting a Excess Mana for each of these crystals beyond 10?
Based on the wording alone compared to wld growth, there is no reason not to believe it will give you Excess Mana, except that it would potentially be a ridiculous draw card later in the game. Maybe not because you pay 2 mana per draw and you discard your hand. Does anyone know if Nourish gives Excess Mana? I never tried it myself because the draw option is strictly better at 9-10 mana.

Edit:
I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
Yeah that makes sense.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #211 on: August 08, 2015, 07:10:42 pm »
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Wild Growth is a very special case.  The official explanation for getting Excess Mana is that drawing it late feels so bad otherwise.  Nourish doesn't produce Excess Mana as you still have the draw option.  Darnassus uses exactly the same wording as Wild Growth but won't produce Excess Mana either.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #212 on: August 08, 2015, 07:15:37 pm »
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I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
Oh, right.  I forgot, you could have a Loot Hoarder on board and ram it into something.

Good luck with doing that reliably... but yeah, that makes sense for the wording now.  Before I was thinking 9 mana would be more than adequate for Hero Power, the only mana use left.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #213 on: August 08, 2015, 07:40:02 pm »
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Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #214 on: August 08, 2015, 08:29:07 pm »
+1

I'm fine with crazy combo cards that never pan out.  Someone will have fun with them, and they don't -hurt- the game.    It's different form 5 mana sylvanas which hurt the game, and the incoming demonfire which will not cause anyone to have fun.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #215 on: August 08, 2015, 09:35:29 pm »
+1

I'm guessing the card drawn by Gadgetzan Auctioneer would be discarded?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #216 on: August 08, 2015, 10:44:39 pm »
+1

I'm guessing the card drawn by Gadgetzan Auctioneer would be discarded?
Yeah.  Soulfire works that way.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #217 on: August 08, 2015, 11:57:20 pm »
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Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #218 on: August 09, 2015, 12:03:00 am »
+1

Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.

Ho boii. That'll be fun to try. It'll never work, but I'll be doing it :P
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #219 on: August 09, 2015, 12:32:06 am »
+1

Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.

Ho boii. That'll be fun to try. It'll never work, but I'll be doing it :P
I can only hope that the two people who will lose to it have a sense of humour.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #220 on: August 09, 2015, 08:34:37 am »
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You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

There are edge cases where it's possible. For example, you have 5 copies of the new druid minion that destroys a manaa crystal on deathrattle, (either through Duolicate o because it's Arena), Baron Rivendare, and you Astral Communication costs 0 due to Thaurrissan/Millhouse.

Card sure seems interesting.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #221 on: August 09, 2015, 05:10:40 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #222 on: August 09, 2015, 06:10:51 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #223 on: August 09, 2015, 08:50:34 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk

I think it's more as a concept. If Druid gets some card that can abuse hero power a lot, it could work.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #224 on: August 09, 2015, 09:58:16 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk

I think it's more as a concept. If Druid gets some card that can abuse hero power a lot, it could work.

Ancient of Kick-Ass

Use your hero power as often as you like.

5/5 something mana cost whatever
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #225 on: August 10, 2015, 01:13:40 pm »
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Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #226 on: August 10, 2015, 01:20:27 pm »
+1

Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
Pretty cool card.

Dreadsteed - Warlock Epic (Minion)
4 Mana 1/1 Demon
Deathrattle: Summon a Dreadsteed

Also, looks like Dominion's Cutpurse is invading Hearthstone:
http://www.hearthhead.com/news=248654/lance-bearer-and-cutpurse-cards-from-the-grand-tournament-revealed
Kinda like the Lance Bearer in that post.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #227 on: August 10, 2015, 01:52:13 pm »
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Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #228 on: August 10, 2015, 01:57:03 pm »
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Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.

No, there'd need to be some crazy interaction with other new cards to make that playable.  Now if it had Charge...
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #229 on: August 10, 2015, 01:57:40 pm »
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You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

There are edge cases where it's possible. For example, you have 5 copies of the new druid minion that destroys a manaa crystal on deathrattle, (either through Duolicate o because it's Arena), Baron Rivendare, and you Astral Communication costs 0 due to Thaurrissan/Millhouse.

Card sure seems interesting.
This can happen on turn 2 in constructed, doesn't need more than 2 guys.

P2T1: coin Innervate, x2 mana destruct guy.
P1T2: Milhouse
P2T2: sack both mana destructoguys, (now at 0 mana), play astral for free.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #230 on: August 10, 2015, 02:00:26 pm »
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Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.
No, there'd need to be some crazy interaction with other new cards to make that playable.  Now if it had Charge...
Warrior synergy. Cripes. If a warrior could somehow get one in hand with Warsong, 7 mana, summon a 2/3, a charging 1/1 and destroy all enemy minions (roughly).


« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:02:15 pm by Haddock »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #231 on: August 10, 2015, 02:01:30 pm »
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Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
Pretty cool card.

Dreadsteed - Warlock Epic (Minion)
4 Mana 1/1 Demon
Deathrattle: Summon a Dreadsteed

Also, looks like Dominion's Cutpurse is invading Hearthstone:
http://www.hearthhead.com/news=248654/lance-bearer-and-cutpurse-cards-from-the-grand-tournament-revealed
Kinda like the Lance Bearer in that post.

I was pretty excited about this card until I saw the cost. Now I think it's pretty underwhelming. If it was 3 I think there'd be some fun decks that use it. If it was 2 it would be OP.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #232 on: August 10, 2015, 02:03:28 pm »
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Looks pretty good for Zoolock since they run enough buffing cards such as Dire Wolf and PO.  It makes it so you always have a minion to buff with PO, which is significant a lot of the time.  Being able to shadowflame it, void terror it, and still have a guy to buff is pretty nice.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #233 on: August 10, 2015, 02:15:49 pm »
0

Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
Pretty cool card.

Dreadsteed - Warlock Epic (Minion)
4 Mana 1/1 Demon
Deathrattle: Summon a Dreadsteed

Also, looks like Dominion's Cutpurse is invading Hearthstone:
http://www.hearthhead.com/news=248654/lance-bearer-and-cutpurse-cards-from-the-grand-tournament-revealed
Kinda like the Lance Bearer in that post.

I was pretty excited about this card until I saw the cost. Now I think it's pretty underwhelming. If it was 3 I think there'd be some fun decks that use it. If it was 2 it would be OP.
I think they were conservative with the cost because of the potential with Baron Rivendare. If you ever get 4 or more of these things on the board at once, it would enable a wonky Control Warlock archetype that runs lots of AoE like Hellfires, Demonwraths, Explosive Sheeps, supported by minions like Sea Giant, Anima Golem, Cult Master, Gormok. You don't want that craziness to be easy.

As it, it's the ultimately utility card for zoo in that it helps guarantee value for all minions that need another minion to do stuff (Sergeant, Dire Wolf, Argus, Void Terror, Power Overwhelming, knife Juggler after respawn, etc.) but gives very little value outside of those synergies. If you think of it as a permanent free Mage hero power for 4 mana, you can also least see how it fits the theme of the expansion.

I am definitely trying this thing out.

Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.
No, there'd need to be some crazy interaction with other new cards to make that playable.  Now if it had Charge...
Warrior synergy. Cripes. If a warrior could somehow get one in hand with Warsong, 7 mana, summon a 2/3, a charging 1/1 and destroy all enemy minions (roughly).
Or summon this for your opponent and go to town with Grim Patron + Warsong.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #234 on: August 10, 2015, 02:26:14 pm »
0

I think Void Steed has more promise for Handlock than Zoolock, although it doesn't have much promise in either.  In Handlock you already have a big silence target in Twilight Drake, so if you run Void Steed and both Sludge Belchers then you can get your opponent to run out of silences.

There are some auxillary benefits to getting the guy out there as handlock.  You can sac pact him after dropping moltens, although that's probably janky, especially since it's a demon so it nombos with Voidcaller for Malganis handlock, which is the main other use for sac pact.  You always have the ability to cycle Mortal Coil, that's nice.  It can do 1 damage to some minion every turn, that's nice.  Most importantly, every time you drop a Sunfury or DoA there will be a little dude to taunt up on one side, and it only takes 1 HP of taunt to block an entire attack.
And there's the PO shadowflame, that too.

Maybe it's a card, but probably not. 

Cutpurse got me excited, but then I realized it's a Pint Sized Summoner that can't be a Pint Sized Summoner if you need to trade it with a 3/2, probably not good enough :/
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #235 on: August 10, 2015, 02:29:03 pm »
0

I hope someone in a big streamed tournament pulls Voidsteed out of their Piloted Sky Golem, drops Warsong Commander, but loses because the animation times make it impossible for him to clear board in time.  Then maybe Blizzard would be forced to make some improvements.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #236 on: August 10, 2015, 02:32:00 pm »
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I'm somewhat excited about Lance Bearer. It looks like it could be a pretty nice replacement for Dire Wolf Alpha in my Pally aggro build.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #237 on: August 10, 2015, 02:37:01 pm »
0

I'm somewhat excited about Lance Bearer. It looks like it could be a pretty nice replacement for Dire Wolf Alpha in my Pally aggro build.
Yeah the Lance Bearer is nice because it punishes passive opponents. Say you have a Nerubian Egg of whatever and your opponent has no minions, you'd often want to hold off on cards like Abusive Sergeant or Dire Wolf if they're your only enabler. With this card you can buff your creates and the creature you buff remains a problem instead of the Lance Bearer. And it's +2 attack which is enough to be meaningful.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #238 on: August 10, 2015, 02:37:47 pm »
0

I dunno.  DWA is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 2/2 with 0 minions on board.  Lance Bearer is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 1/2 with 0 minions on board.

Yeah I like it with Egg, ninja-markusin, but Egg isn't used in aggro pally.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #239 on: August 10, 2015, 02:39:58 pm »
0

I dunno.  DWA is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 2/2 with 0 minions on board.  Lance Bearer is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 1/2 with 0 minions on board.
But it's one less charging damage at 1 minion than Lance Bearer, and the buff doesn't go away after the Lance Bearer dies. Dire Wolf is considerably better after something like Implosion and Muster for Battle however.

Edit from pops ninja edit: true Nerubian doesn't see use in aggro Pally. It sure makes Shielded Mini-bot a lot more threatening though
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:41:23 pm by markusin »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #240 on: August 10, 2015, 05:38:26 pm »
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I dunno.  DWA is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 2/2 with 0 minions on board.  Lance Bearer is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 1/2 with 0 minions on board.
But it's one less charging damage at 1 minion than Lance Bearer, and the buff doesn't go away after the Lance Bearer dies. Dire Wolf is considerably better after something like Implosion and Muster for Battle however.

Edit from pops ninja edit: true Nerubian doesn't see use in aggro Pally. It sure makes Shielded Mini-bot a lot more threatening though
Thinking about this a little more, Lance Bearer is quite dangerous when paired with Divine Shield minions. Turn 1 Argent Squire or coined Mini-bot. Turn 2 buff Divine Shield minion with Lance Bearer and kill whatever minion they just played (even Zombie Chow) or just go face if they didn't play any minions. This puts your opponent in a tough situation before you even had a chance to play Muster For Battle. It also gives you more reason to play that 2/1 Divine Shield charger over Wolfrider.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #241 on: August 10, 2015, 05:44:11 pm »
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Cutpurse got me excited, but then I realized it's a Pint Sized Summoner that can't be a Pint Sized Summoner if you need to trade it with a 3/2, probably not good enough :/
You can give it a little more credit than that since the coin can work on spells, and so on Turn 2 you can go face then Coin+HP+Deadly Poison to kill the 2 drop. If your opponent plays an Unstable Ghoul then you can cry. At 2 health it's not made to last. It can't even stand up to a Leper Gnome or Zombie Chow on it's own.
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #242 on: August 10, 2015, 06:38:18 pm »
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Also, Cutpurse is a Pint Sized Summoner that lets you hoard more than 1 coin if you need the mana reduction later. The coin also enables Combo.

I still agree that it's not amazing, but I wouldn't be surprised if it sees play.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #243 on: August 10, 2015, 10:34:22 pm »
+1

Guys.

T1 Coin-Innervate-Darnassus Aspirant-Recombobulator

gg
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #244 on: August 10, 2015, 11:32:58 pm »
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Guys.

T1 Coin-Innervate-Darnassus Aspirant-Recombobulator

gg

(...)-Recombobulator

gg
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #245 on: August 11, 2015, 10:32:22 am »
0

Guys.

T1 Coin-Innervate-Darnassus Aspirant-Recombobulator

gg

(...)-Recombobulator

gg
And Recombobulator has a new friend:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22338-icehowl

Icehowl - Neutral Legendary Minion
9 mana 10/10
Charge
Can't attack heroes.

Aww man this doesn't even kill Ysera. Maybe works in an Aviana Ramp Druid Build? Note that silencing it also removes it's charge. Doesn't seem strong enough for constructed.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #246 on: August 11, 2015, 11:41:03 am »
+1

Icehowl is really cool though. I like it even if it's not strong. It's an interesting way to keep it from just being King Krush.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #247 on: August 11, 2015, 01:32:04 pm »
+2

Shamans getting some more love:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/55006-new-shaman-card-healing-wave

3 Mana Shaman Spell
Restore 7 Health
<win a Joust> Restore 14 instead

Shaman might want early game minions to survive though.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #248 on: August 11, 2015, 01:47:59 pm »
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That's got to be the best Joust card so far.  Shaman is one of the best classes at controlling without running cheap minions, because they have Earth Shock, Rockbiter, Stormforged Axe, Lightning Bolt, Crackle, Spirit Wolves, Lightning Storm, and Hex. 

It's interesting that Joust combos with Ancestral Call (what's the 4 mana alarmobot called again?) because both mechanics make you want to not run cheap minions.

Jank Arcane Intellect is also helpful for the archetype, I'm a bit interested.  (not as interested as I am in recombobulating Darnassus aspirant though)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #249 on: August 11, 2015, 01:57:34 pm »
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Anyone else get the feeling that Blizzard is trying to reveal all the shitty cards first?  Though Healing Wave does seem pretty nice.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #250 on: August 11, 2015, 03:06:11 pm »
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Anyone else get the feeling that Blizzard is trying to reveal all the shitty cards first?  Though Healing Wave does seem pretty nice.

I think they did that with GvG too. The more cards got released more good ones started popping up.

That Shaman card looks great. Heal 7 is already decent, not amazing but passable, and at heal 14 you just shut out lots of aggro decks. Like pops said, the crappy draw card seems ok in a deck with this just for the sake of card draw. What I find more interesting is that they also gave Shaman the Totem Golem and tuskar Totemic, which fit in a completely different deck. It's good I got gold Shaman, so i can try all these archtypes while also being snobbish.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #251 on: August 11, 2015, 03:31:50 pm »
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If you are wise, they fit totally different decks.  I think part of their thinking with joust was that it could possibly be both competitive and RNGfun for different people.  In competitive uses (if it does get any, that is an "if") it will only show up in tight lists that are very careful about what minions are included.  In newbie and casual play, people will run the joust cards just to see if they can randomly get the bonuses.  So it's all, fun for everyone.

So from that angle they get double value from releasing Totem Golem and Healing Wave in the same set, good players will use each for different sets and bad players will use both in the same deck and still enjoy it (without paying way too much attention to how their winrate is slipping)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #252 on: August 11, 2015, 03:49:02 pm »
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The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #253 on: August 11, 2015, 05:12:43 pm »
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The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.

I dunno, I kinda want to throw down some Confuses while I have Stormwind Champion in play and just make all my minions ridiculous.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #254 on: August 11, 2015, 06:25:16 pm »
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The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.

I dunno, I kinda want to throw down some Confuses while I have Stormwind Champion in play and just make all my minions ridiculous.
Uh, you quoted Zog's post but your post doesn't seem to be related? Joust is a nickname for the "reveal a minion" mechanic, not a nickname for the whole set.  Confuse does not have that mechanic.

Confuse does indeed emulate Power of the Wild in addition to its own natural effect if you use it with a Stormwind Champion out, but you'll probably get to pull off the effect much more frequently if you use a cheaper source of buffs to permanentify.  Like:
-Dire Wolf Alpha
-Murloc Warleader and Grimscale Oracle
-Abusive Sergeant
-Mana Addict
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #255 on: August 11, 2015, 07:04:15 pm »
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The name confuse is a weird choice for the effect. In most games, confuse is an effect that causes unintended actions to happen, not something that changes stats. For that name, something like "give all minions 50% chance to attack the wrong enemy" (same as the GvG ogre effect) would fit better I think.

It's not particularly consistent with previous appearances of that effect in Hearthstone, either, on Crazed Alchemist and Reversing Switch.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #256 on: August 11, 2015, 08:44:35 pm »
+1

The name confuse is a weird choice for the effect. In most games, confuse is an effect that causes unintended actions to happen, not something that changes stats. For that name, something like "give all minions 50% chance to attack the wrong enemy" (same as the GvG ogre effect) would fit better I think.

It's not particularly consistent with previous appearances of that effect in Hearthstone, either, on Crazed Alchemist and Reversing Switch.

But the card IS a bit confusing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #257 on: August 12, 2015, 12:21:26 pm »
0

Anyone wanna make a testing gauntlet for brews with the new set? I can play the Patron Warrior
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #258 on: August 12, 2015, 01:32:32 pm »
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Anyone wanna make a testing gauntlet for brews with the new set? I can play the Patron Warrior
That sounds cool, yeah.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #259 on: August 12, 2015, 02:03:04 pm »
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I'd say Varian Wrynn probably helps Arena Warrior a smidge.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #260 on: August 12, 2015, 02:19:07 pm »
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I'd say Varian Wrynn probably helps Arena Warrior a smidge.

Agreed, but a very small smidge. I don't think a Legendary can ever help out a class in Arena much. You don't even see a Legendary every draft let alone a specific one.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #261 on: August 12, 2015, 02:37:53 pm »
+2

If you draft Varian Wrynn in Arena, you probably won't actually draw enough cards in your 0-3 run to actually see him in your hand.  #ArenaWarriorsMatter

(My post is on twitter now, that's how that works right?)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #262 on: August 12, 2015, 03:14:16 pm »
+2

Yes, I am firmly of the belief that Twitter is just anything with hashtags. #ArenaWarriorsMatter #DoesNotUnderstandTwitter
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #263 on: August 12, 2015, 03:21:23 pm »
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http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#22319:2;22331:1;22340:2;10:2;77:2;491:2;152:1;14440:1;214:2;270:2;676:2;12218:2;12241:2;12187:1;495:1;7742:1;22338:1;7731:2;503:1;

This is my current thinking for how Joust shaman could work.  It's either amazing or terrible. 

I noticed while drawing up the list that Frosthowl has increased the number of Ancestor's Call + Reincarnate targets from 2 (Sneed, Kel) to 3 (Sneed, Kel, Frosthowl).  This might make running the Reincarnate combo in the deck worthwhile.  Reincarnate is a little janky, but it's better than running Frost Shock because you've run out of nonminion cards you can use.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #264 on: August 12, 2015, 03:24:44 pm »
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I think you'd have to run 5 minions, maybe you could get away with 4 though.  The deciding factor isn't so much the risk of drawing Ancestral Call without a minion to cheat out, it's the risk of having all minions in your deck in hand or play and losing a healing Joust with a value of zero.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #265 on: August 12, 2015, 07:50:27 pm »
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I hope you like Unstable Portal and Bane of Doom, because Hunter is getting in on that RNG action too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3gqrrb/new_card_revealed_by_lifecoach_ram_wrangler/

Ram Wrangler
5 Mana Hunter Rare
3/3 Minion
Battlecry: if you have a Beast, summon a random Beast.

Another card whose Battlecry, when it takes effect,  ranges from bleh to just outright winning you the game. I think the requirement to have a Beast is tougher to meet than it looks once players understand the danger of leaving Beasts out, but this + Webspinner is a turn 6 play that can summon a Beast Legendary or Highmane. Or it summons Captain's Parrot or Timber Wolf or something. Why does Blizzard have to make more of these kinds of cards?

I think it makes more sense now why Ball of Spiders is 6 mana.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 07:52:17 pm by markusin »
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #266 on: August 12, 2015, 07:56:20 pm »
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I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #267 on: August 12, 2015, 08:00:55 pm »
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I don't think it can summon any uncollectible Beasts like you get from Animal Companion. That's always how these kinds of cards work in Hearthstone.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #268 on: August 12, 2015, 08:13:34 pm »
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I don't think it can summon any uncollectible Beasts like you get from Animal Companion. That's always how these kinds of cards work in Hearthstone.
Unless they say "ANY" in all caps, like the new Tuskar Totemic, who can summon 4 uncollectible totems.

The convention is a little unclear, but Blizz is literally making things up as they go along.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 08:15:52 pm by popsofctown »
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