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Jorbles

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The Grand Tournament Discussion
« on: July 02, 2015, 07:53:09 pm »
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EDIT: This thread was originally titled "New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)" but is now devoted to discussion of The Grand Tournament the Hearthstone expansion announced July 22, 2015.

A new expansion is possibly being teased for July 22, 2015? Possibly themed around the Argent Tournament (whatever that is).

http://www.pcgamer.com/next-hearthstone-expansion-teased-for-july-22/

All rumour and speculation at this point, but solid reasons to expect a big announcement like an expansion.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 05:38:35 pm by Jorbles »
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Jorbles

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015, 07:56:47 pm »
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Also possible that this is just an announcement for an announcement and that this is all just hype.
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Kirian

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2015, 01:33:14 am »
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the Argent Tournament (whatever that is).

So... many... daily... quests...
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EgorK

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2015, 10:08:34 am »
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I would bet on July 22 they'd say that there would be expansion released in August/September, but with no set date
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Grujah

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 05:33:41 pm »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D
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KingZog3

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2015, 06:14:59 pm »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D

They just had a new mode with tavern brawl though. My guess is a new class (Which is totally not needed) and new cards for sure.
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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 06:38:05 pm »
+2

Since they are making an announcement to announce an announcement, I can only assume that Garrosh has decided to take his talents to Miami.
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markusin

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 08:48:16 pm »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D

They just had a new mode with tavern brawl though. My guess is a new class (Which is totally not needed) and new cards for sure.
Yeah I'm not hoping for a new class. Our nine representatives had to brave through Naxx, Blackrock, and all those batyles to earn classic packs to earn their cards. There's still so much they can bring on their own.

What, some new hotshot thinks he or she can come in with all their 2 years worth of class cards and feel accepted? Bah, they should just make a spinoff or "expansion" if they want more classes.

I doubt they'll be introducing a new class, so my comments above shouldn't be relevant.
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EgorK

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2015, 06:59:29 am »
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I hope it will include torunament mode. As it is a torunament expansion. :D

They just had a new mode with tavern brawl though. My guess is a new class (Which is totally not needed) and new cards for sure.

They specifically said that there would not be new class this time
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Jorbles

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Re: New Expansion? (July 22, 2015)
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 05:33:29 pm »
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New expansion confirmed on http://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone/ just now. I'll edit in the new name to this thread for discussion when they say it.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 05:39:26 pm »
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It's the Grand Tournament, the website for it is not live yet, but can eventually be found at grandtourney.com.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 05:42:46 pm »
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I'm watching the stream now. It's like a sequel to the Argent Tournament lore-wise.

Update: It's going to be a 130 card GvG style expansion coming next month. Introduces mechanics dealing with the hero power, including a new keyword mechanic where a minion's effect takes place every time your hero power is used.

Heh, "Inspire" reminds me of Innovation.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 05:55:34 pm by markusin »
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2015, 05:52:03 pm »
+1

So far things announced:
-It's a riff on the Argent Tournament that is themed to happen a year after the Argent Tournament when people wanted to have another tournament.
-New playfield is going to be there.
-New Mechanic: There will be "a ton" of new cards that effect hero powers.
-New Keyword: Inspire. Everytime you use your hero power Inspire happens.
-Over 130 new cards.
-If you buy in advance you can get a discount on the new cards. (or you can get them with gold as usual). Prices not mentioned. $50 for 50 packs.
-Available "next month".

Cards:
Skycap'n Kragg
7 mana Legendary Neutral Pirate Minion
4/6
Charge, costs 1 less for each friendly pirate
Lock and Load
2 mana Epic Hunter Spell Epic
Each time you cast a spell this turn add a random Hunter card to your hand.
Maiden of the Lake
4 mana Common Neutral Minion
2/6
Your hero power costs 1 less.
Coldarra Drake
6 mana Epic Mage Dragon Minion
6/6
You can use your Hero Power any number of times.
Frost Giant
10 mana Epic Neutral Minion
8/8
Costs 1 less for each time you use your hero power this turn
Lowly Squire
1 mana Common Neutral Minion
1/2
Inspire: Gain +1 attack.
Nexus-Champion Saraad
5 mana Legendary Neutral Minion
4/5
Inspire: Add a random spell to your hand.

There's a show match with some other new cards that'll show up in a second. I'll add some more when I see them.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 06:37:41 pm by Jorbles »
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Galzria

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2015, 05:53:24 pm »
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Super excited!
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2015, 06:00:21 pm »
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Totem Golem
2 mana ?Rare? Shaman Totem Minion
3/4
Overload: 1

Fallen Hero
2 mana Rare Mage Minion
?3/2?
Make Mage Hero power do an extra damage.

Kodorider
6 mana Epic Neutral Minion
3/5
Inspire: Summon a 3/5 War Kodo

Effigy
3 mana Mage Secret
When a friendly minion dies Recombobulate the minion. (not correct language, but that's the effect)

Stream went down, I'll probably just let r/hearthstone compile the rest of the new cards as this is super time consuming, but I'll edit them in when I see them next.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 06:03:44 pm by Jorbles »
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2015, 06:01:12 pm »
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Jesus that Shaman minion looks ridiculous for Arena

Edit: Partial card list: http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/cards
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 06:03:09 pm »
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Jesus that Shaman minion looks ridiculous for Arena

Edit: Partial card list: http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/cards
Worth noting that it's a totem.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2015, 06:09:53 pm »
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Draenei Totem Carver
4 mana Rare Shaman Minion
4/4
Battlecry: +1/+1 for each ?friendly? totem.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 06:10:42 pm »
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This is the place to be to see them as they get shown apparently:
https://www.reddit.com/live/vaavp3v4sqsw
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 06:12:06 pm »
+2

It's happening!

◥█̆◤ T O T E M I C M I G H T B O Y S ◥█̆◤
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 06:21:31 pm »
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It's happening!

◥█̆◤ T O T E M I C M I G H T B O Y S ◥█̆◤
It's like Totemic might was a 2-year foreshadowing.
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2015, 06:22:19 pm »
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Oh my god guys the Coldarra Drake / Majordomo Executus combo
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2015, 06:39:35 pm »
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Oh my god guys the Coldarra Drake / Majordomo Executus combo
Yikes, and Mage was already trying to make Majordomo work with Ice Block and Ice Barrier.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 06:40:08 pm »
+1

"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2015, 06:41:12 pm »
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Does anyone have a link to just the cards?
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2015, 06:47:12 pm »
+1

"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2015, 06:55:24 pm »
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I know right? I play a lot of Arena and now have way more GVG cards than Classic.
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2015, 06:57:44 pm »
+1

Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2015, 07:12:02 pm »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2015, 07:16:31 pm »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.

Could go either way, but I'd be more inclined to think it's random as that seems to be Blizzards favourite way to do things. Unless you're playing Druid, then you get to choose.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 07:16:44 pm »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 07:30:03 pm »
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"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
Indeed. I'm still short on those epic giants from classic. Can't run Handlock with my currently collection even if I wanted to. Plus I already got most of the good stuff from GvG.

The only reason I can think of for why we were stuck only getting GvG cards from Arena in the first place is because they didn't want to put in the coding effort or didn't want to clutter the interface. Now they don't have much of a choice to fix that with the new expansion.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 07:30:17 pm »
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This image (screenshot from the stream):


Is probably a thing. I just noticed it's all new art so it's possibly new Legendaries with their Vanilla stats teased. (I doubt they are all new Warlock Legendaries).

How bad would a 2/4 have to be to cost 1 mana?
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2015, 07:40:36 pm »
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"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
Indeed. I'm still short on those epic giants from classic. Can't run Handlock with my currently collection even if I wanted to. Plus I already got most of the good stuff from GvG.

The only reason I can think of for why we were stuck only getting GvG cards from Arena in the first place is because they didn't want to put in the coding effort or didn't want to clutter the interface. Now they don't have much of a choice to fix that with the new expansion.

On a second read, you probably get the pack randomly. Blizzard has said before that keeping the interface is a top priority, which is why we're still missing extra deck slots. Making a new interface to choose the pack you get is one more dialog box to get through before you get back to the game, so odds are you don't get to choose. (Although if it's changed to be random, I'm not sure why it stayed low priority for so long, since they don't need to make any new UI.)

I still prefer pure random over only getting the most recent expansion.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2015, 07:53:30 pm »
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"Beginning with the launch of The Grand Tournament, the Arena will no longer award players only Goblins vs Gnomes card packs. Instead, players will have a chance to receive a Grand Tournament card pack, Goblins vs Gnomes card pack, or a Classic card pack whenever a pack is awarded."

FINALLY.

If Blizzard had announced only this change with no expansion, I'd still be happy.
Indeed. I'm still short on those epic giants from classic. Can't run Handlock with my currently collection even if I wanted to. Plus I already got most of the good stuff from GvG.

The only reason I can think of for why we were stuck only getting GvG cards from Arena in the first place is because they didn't want to put in the coding effort or didn't want to clutter the interface. Now they don't have much of a choice to fix that with the new expansion.

On a second read, you probably get the pack randomly. Blizzard has said before that keeping the interface is a top priority, which is why we're still missing extra deck slots. Making a new interface to choose the pack you get is one more dialog box to get through before you get back to the game, so odds are you don't get to choose. (Although if it's changed to be random, I'm not sure why it stayed low priority for so long, since they don't need to make any new UI.)

I still prefer pure random over only getting the most recent expansion.
When the choice was only between GvG and the base set, they didn't want people to feel ripped off by Arena. Now they'd feel ripped off if they're only limited to one of the 100+ card pack types.

So they were clearly trying to buff totems for Shaman so that Shaman can properly benefit from the hero power mechanics of this expansion. I'm really curious how they'll do this for Rogue. Spamming the Rogue hero power anti-synergizes with many of the Rogue's better cards. I'm expecting a Rogue card that either buffs the Hero power in some way or changes the way it works altogether (for example by making it affect the equipped weapon's attack and/or durability).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2015, 07:59:50 pm »
0

Oh my god guys the Coldarra Drake / Majordomo Executus combo
Yikes, and Mage was already trying to make Majordomo work with Ice Block and Ice Barrier.
Actually, we haven't received confirmation on whether or not Coldarra only works on the Mage hero power like Hunter's Sniper. It's reasonable to believe Coldarra will only work on the Mage's base hero power (Fire Blast).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2015, 09:42:09 pm »
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How bad would a 2/4 have to be to cost 1 mana?
I believe the last time we had a trailer like this, only the card images were accurate, not their classes, rarities, or stats. Don't quote me on that though.

The drawback wouldn't have to be that bad, we already have Zombie Chow after all.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2015, 10:28:15 pm »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.

Ew. It is random. That sucks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2015, 11:05:41 pm »
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Ball of Spiders is hilariously bad. On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2015, 11:31:28 pm »
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Ball of Spiders is hilariously bad. On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.
Not the worst thing in Arena though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2015, 09:58:32 am »
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Well, it also means that you only have a 1/3 chance to get a pack from the enw expansion, which kinda sucks if you have most old cards already.

New expansion looks nice though.

I interpreted as it would be your choice, not random.

Ew. It is random. That sucks.

The more I think about it, the more I hate it. In the long run it makes getting all your cards via arena absolutely nonviable. With the current system of only getting the latest expansion, you might miss some by starting later, or not playing when the xpansion is active. With the new system, getting cards from a set you don't already have most of will converge to zero.

Blizzard may claim that not being able to choose is to keep the interface simpler, but a far more likely reason is that they want everyone to pay real money for the new cards.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2015, 11:24:56 am »
+1

They should just give a Pack Token that you can redeem for a pack of your choice. I'm not sure how making it random is better than that.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2015, 11:46:19 am »
+2

They should just give a Pack Token that you can redeem for a pack of your choice. I'm not sure how making it random is better than that.

$$$$$$$
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2015, 12:10:36 pm »
0

They should just give a Pack Token that you can redeem for a pack of your choice. I'm not sure how making it random is better than that.

$$$$$$$

Well yeah :P But I just meant for the game. Obviously its a way to get more money.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2015, 12:31:29 pm »
+2

Grand Tournament
$5 - Action

+1 Action
Each player may reveal a Province from his hand.
If you do, discard it and gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or  a Duchy, putting it on top of your deck.   
If no one else does, +1 Card, +$1, +1 Buy, and take a Coin token.

------------------------
You can't buy this if you have any Copper in play.
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2015, 12:47:21 pm »
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The more I think about it, the more I hate it. In the long run it makes getting all your cards via arena absolutely nonviable. With the current system of only getting the latest expansion, you might miss some by starting later, or not playing when the xpansion is active. With the new system, getting cards from a set you don't already have most of will converge to zero.

Blizzard may claim that not being able to choose is to keep the interface simpler, but a far more likely reason is that they want everyone to pay real money for the new cards.

Aren't you contradicting your position here? It's nonviable to get all cards via arena right now, unless you get all cards in an expansion before it goes out of the arena rotation. The vast majority of people do not have complete Classic collections from arena. This is a system that's better for newer players. Sure, there exist ones that are better for everybody, but Blizzard aren't implementing them.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2015, 01:38:13 pm »
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Players still get classic packs from tavern brawl and "spectate a game" quests, though. It's not like they're completely out of circulation.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2015, 01:43:49 pm »
+1

New players will get cards they don't already have from any kind of pack. So the only people this is better for are new players who play insane amounts, and it's only better for them until the next expansion releases.
Note that it's also probably better to have lots of cards from the same set instead some from every set due to increased synergies, and cards from the newest set for power creep reasons.

New legendary improving hero powers revealed here btw: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19819221/the-grand-tournament-hero-powers-7-23-2015
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2015, 01:49:18 pm »
+1

I wonder how they'll implement the upgraded Shaman power without a confusing interface though :P
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2015, 01:56:54 pm »
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Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2015, 02:10:41 pm »
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Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 02:11:51 pm by ycz6 »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2015, 02:13:07 pm »
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I wonder how they'll implement the upgraded Shaman power without a confusing interface though :P

Same interface as Tracking, I'd guess. Just show the Totems that aren't on the board yet (or maybe this lets your summon duplicates, who knows).
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2015, 02:34:16 pm »
0

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2015, 03:52:42 pm »
0

Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.

Oh right. Well, then i take it back. This'll be good Shaman. And it seems they want Shaman to be crazy good.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2015, 05:27:08 pm »
0

Why those stats? It seems best in face hunter because of the high attack, and the crazy hero power. The others don't really do enough for the crap stats and the hero power becomes only slightly better.
Huh? Face Hunter is pretty much the worst possible meta deck you could put this card in. It's a 6 mana card which doesn't do any damage when you play it. Most Face Hunter decks don't run anything above 4 mana besides maybe Leeroy.

Not to mention the upgraded Hunter hero power is way weaker than any of the other ones, not stronger. Look at it this way: if play Justicar Trueheart instead of hero powering on a turn, then it'll take a full three turns until you catch up in face damage, assuming you hero power every turn.


Edit: Also note this is a Battlecry, so it transforms your hero power for the rest of the game. The body is sort of secondary to the effect.

Oh right. Well, then i take it back. This'll be good Shaman. And it seems they want Shaman to be crazy good.
The Hero Power Shaman always wanted, but for a 6 mana upfront price. Seems fair.

Many of the new cards seen so far go against the idea of immediate gratification. It will take careful setup to make these combos pay off. Not like in GvG where you "combo" you mechs with Mechwarper as early as Turn 2.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2015, 05:40:15 pm »
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I just noticed that there might be some hope for Shadowform Priest now if there ends up being enough good inspire minions. Hard to say because Priest cards generally like heal.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2015, 08:25:17 pm »
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On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2015, 09:01:00 pm »
0

On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
I'm not really familiar with Magic. How do rotating formats work for TCGs?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2015, 09:13:07 pm »
+1

Basically, you can only use cards from the previous two-ish blocks, where each block consists of some number of expansions. See: http://magic.wizards.com/en/content/standard-formats-magic-gathering
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2015, 09:16:44 pm »
+1

On the flip side, all the shaman cards look amazing if the meta slows down.

If magic is anything to go by, it is extremely rare for a new expansion  or newly available cards to slow a metagame down rather than speed it up. 

A lot of stuff in the expansion looks too slow to be playable.  It might already be time for Hearthstone to start doing rotating formats if they want this stuff to be usable.
I'm not really familiar with Magic. How do rotating formats work for TCGs?

Magic releases expansions in blocks. Every block shares common flavor + mechanics, and each block usually has 3 expansions.

Magic has a format called Standard, where the legal cards are all cards from the past 2 blocks. Whenever a new block comes out, the oldest block rotates out of Standard. The block that rotates out is still tournament legal, but only in formats that allows more cards. So viable cards in Standard may not be viable in the next biggest format, Modern.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2015, 03:01:39 am »
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I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2015, 12:37:53 pm »
0

I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.

I watched Trump talk about it on stream. He thinks it's basically terrible in Hunter and Shaman, and that it would be playable in other classes IF you think the game can be dragged out to 10-15 turns reliably so you can win based on the edge your improved hero power grants you. (So his opinion was that Control/Fatigue style decks are going to get more use out of it, he seemed to think it was strongest in Priest, Warrior, Druid, Paladin.)
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2015, 02:43:30 pm »
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I don't even think the new legendary would be good in midrange hunter.  Sure it's slower, but a 6m6/3 is competing directly with Highmanes - the hero power thing doesn't make up the difference I don't think.

I watched Trump talk about it on stream. He thinks it's basically terrible in Hunter and Shaman, and that it would be playable in other classes IF you think the game can be dragged out to 10-15 turns reliably so you can win based on the edge your improved hero power grants you. (So his opinion was that Control/Fatigue style decks are going to get more use out of it, he seemed to think it was strongest in Priest, Warrior, Druid, Paladin.)

Shaman's new cards are really slow game focused though, and with totem synergy. So perhaps getting the exact totems you want will be good enough.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2015, 02:47:06 pm »
0

Also another reveal. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/

9 mana 9/7 - neutral common.

Battecry: deal 4 damage.

So decent in arena, terrible in constructed I think. It's ok for budget decks and at least it does something impactful when played, but fire elemental still kicks it's butt.
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ycz6

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2015, 02:51:01 pm »
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Wow! A 9 mana common? Definitely an interesting option in Arena drafts. Also seems like they might be trying to make the game friendlier for F2P and new players.

Some other new cards: http://hearthstoneplayers.com/new-grand-tournament-card-revealed-at-taiwan-event/

« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 02:52:17 pm by ycz6 »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2015, 03:00:57 pm »
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Sacred Warrior seems kinda cool. Easy to make 5/5 and can be pretty scary with CoH.

Fizzlebang seems cool, but unplayable. 8 mana 4/4 minion with taunt, draw a card and play it or 6 mana 4/4 minion with taunt.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2015, 04:15:39 pm »
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FIzzlebang seems ok in my opinion. Mainly because of Thaurissan. Plus the new minions that make your hero power cheaper.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2015, 04:30:21 pm »
0

Also another reveal. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/the-grand-tournament/

9 mana 9/7 - neutral common.

Battecry: deal 4 damage.

So decent in arena, terrible in constructed I think. It's ok for budget decks and at least it does something impactful when played, but fire elemental still kicks it's butt.
Yes if anything Arena is going to slow down rather than constructed. This card here can sit right next to Force-Tank MAX in terms of strength. A lot of other cards in this expansion might pay off in Arena too.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2015, 11:22:04 am »
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Another inspire card.

4 mana 1/8 Neutral

Inspire: Heal your hero 2hp
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2015, 12:18:02 pm »
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Another inspire card.

4 mana 1/8 Neutral

Inspire: Heal your hero 2hp
Kind of like a more extreme version of Oasis Snapjaw here. If you can taunt it up against aggro it's pretty nifty. Though, most of the decks besides Handlock that give taunt to other stuff are aggro themselves (zoolock, aggrodin with Coghammer) and this is too passive for them I think. Same deal with Maiden of the Lake I think. How many 4 mana inspire cards can we really expect to field anyway?

For something that you'd normally like to protect with taunts, it gives a poor stat distribution when it comes to aggression.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 12:19:14 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2015, 06:31:59 pm »
0

Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2015, 07:46:26 pm »
0

Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
Kind of like the brewmasters, you can imagine scenarios where the effect is good, but more often than not the effect will be a nuisance rather than a benefit when tempo matters most. Sure in Arena I guess it's an okay topdeck. Can survive a Flamestrike, then attack, then you can play it again for a bunch of mana. I think with the cards we have so far this wouldn't see really play. We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2015, 07:58:11 pm »
0

Yet another revealed card.


neutral common
3 mana 2/5
Inspire: Return this minion to your hand


So this is super value. The stats are good, but Im not sure how good it is against aggro. I mean it can kill things and then at the cost of a lot of mana you can full heal it. It would help a lot against aggro Pally I think, since they have lots of little minions this could kill. But I'm not all the hopeful for this card.
Kind of like the brewmasters, you can imagine scenarios where the effect is good, but more often than not the effect will be a nuisance rather than a benefit when tempo matters most. Sure in Arena I guess it's an okay topdeck. Can survive a Flamestrike, then attack, then you can play it again for a bunch of mana. I think with the cards we have so far this wouldn't see really play. We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.

This seems kinda bad to me. I mean yeah there's some situations where it's good, but it seems like a punishment to me. 3 mana card and you can't use your hero power without losing tempo. I guess it's still a 2/5 for 3 mana, but it seems more like a use of the Inspire mechanic as a negative (kindof like Anubar Ambusher).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2015, 07:59:31 pm »
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We'll need to wait to see how valuable the Inspire keyword is before we can assess this one fully.
Ah, you mean in case we have any Undertaker-like cards which specifically call out the Inspire keyword? I'm kinda skeptical that there'll be enough of that to make a big difference... the Inspires we've seen so far have already had a pretty large variety of effects, and it'd be kinda weird to call that word out specifically when the cards which have it don't necessarily have much else in common. It's the same reason we don't have any cards specifically about Battlecries, except for Nerub'ar Weblord, which is generally considered a pretty weird and dumb card.

As for Coliseum Manager (the new 2/5) specifically... I doubt it'll ever be used in Constructed, except in some sort of Warsong Commander + new Inspire shenanigan combo deck, but I think it'll be better in Arena than people are giving it credit for. 2/5 is a solid body on turn 3, and the ability to heal it up and along with a free hero power for 5 mana and 0 net cards is kinda comparable to Azure Drake or a super-Gnomish Inventor, if you squint at it. I don't think it'll be a good card, though, because being unable to use your hero power without a big tempo loss is a problem.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2015, 08:33:31 pm »
0

@Inspire keyword:

There could be a card like Baron Rivendare or Feign Death that has an effect like "Activate the Inspire effects of your friendly minions". At this point I think they might need something like that to make a deck with inspire as the central theme viable. The cards with the Inspire tag have, dare I say, uninspiring stats and strength when considered in a vacuum.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 28, 2015, 08:49:48 pm »
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I think Coliseum Manager will do fine in Control Warrior.  I'd run 3 cost 2/5 that said, "when you play this, take 2 damage", and I doubt Coliseum Manager will be worse than that super often, and if it is, I'm not sure Coliseum Manager is what was wrong with your deck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2015, 08:54:24 pm »
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I'm failing to see how these effects are comparable.
EDIT: Ok. I see it now. You take two damge if it makes you not use your hero power once.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 11:19:37 am by Watno »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2015, 09:05:36 pm »
+1

I think the parallel is that Coliseum Manager in the worst case will prevent you from using your Hero Power once, which is like taking two damage.

Anyway, new card:


Flame Juggler
2 mana 2/3
Battlecry: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy.

Not the most exciting card; it's comparable to Knife Juggler, probably better turns 1-3 but worse afterwards. Really great against 1-drops like Leper Gnome, and solid in Arena. Also, via Reddit:

Quote
I hadn't thought about that. Isn't this the first two drop in the game that has a chance to trade with shielded minibot and survive?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 28, 2015, 09:39:56 pm »
0

I think the parallel is that Coliseum Manager in the worst case will prevent you from using your Hero Power once, which is like taking two damage.

Anyway, new card:


Flame Juggler
2 mana 2/3
Battlecry: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy.

Not the most exciting card; it's comparable to Knife Juggler, probably better turns 1-3 but worse afterwards. Really great against 1-drops like Leper Gnome, and solid in Arena. Also, via Reddit:

Quote
I hadn't thought about that. Isn't this the first two drop in the game that has a chance to trade with shielded minibot and survive?

On the list of generic stand-alone 2-drop body slot for Priest, this one seems pretty high up in terms of desirability.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 29, 2015, 10:23:13 am »
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Is it a random enemy, or a random minion? If it's a minion then it's decent, if it's an enemy then it's kind of bad.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2015, 10:33:32 am »
0

Is it a random enemy, or a random minion? If it's a minion then it's decent, if it's an enemy then it's kind of bad.
... Random enemy :(. Doesn't necessarily beat Mad Bomber in the role of killing 1-drops Turn 2.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #81 on: July 29, 2015, 10:51:00 am »
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Is it a random enemy, or a random minion? If it's a minion then it's decent, if it's an enemy then it's kind of bad.
... Random enemy :(. Doesn't necessarily beat Mad Bomber in the role of killing 1-drops Turn 2.

Is that the correct translation? Because there was already a mistranslation on King's Defender. So I just want to be sure.

King's Defender only gains 1 durability if you have a minion with taunt. Not 1 for every minion with taunt.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2015, 11:00:32 am »
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Looking at the original text, im pretty sure "imigo aleatorio" is random enemy.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #83 on: July 29, 2015, 12:53:14 pm »
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Two more new cards via IGN

Quote
Savage Combatant
4 mana
Druid Beast Minion
5/4
Inspire: Give your hero +2 attack this turn.

This doesn't have amazing stats, but it's straight up better than a 5/4 4 mana vanilla Kodo. Dunno if this will make Druid Beast viable. I'd suspect not, but it's interesting. Probably will turn up relatively regularly in Arena though as the stats are definitely good enough to draft.

Quote
Clockwork Knight
5 mana
Neutral Mech Minion
5/5
Battlecry: +1/+1 to a friendly Mech.

This seems playable. The stats are good enough to play in Arena without the battlecry and the +1/+1 effectively makes it a 6/6 in a Constructed Mech deck. Gives some options to put in the 5 drop spot for Mech decks. The only Mech currently run in this slot in Constructed decks is Antique Healbot, but this card is more aggressive than Healbot so I expect it to turn up in some Mech Mage decks instead of Healbot and it might make some other classes Mech decks more viable.

Edit: Now that I look at it most Mech Mages don't run Healbot, usually running Drakes and Loatheb in the 5 spot. Clockwork Knight gives them another choice. Not sure if it's good enough to replace a Drake or Loatheb though. Possibly?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:01:16 pm by Jorbles »
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #84 on: July 29, 2015, 01:04:31 pm »
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Flame Juggler seems really really great in Arena. Not sure if I'd play it Constructed.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #85 on: July 29, 2015, 02:23:37 pm »
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Fel Reaver is a good 5 drop for Mech decks if BGH is unpopular (which it is now).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #86 on: July 29, 2015, 04:57:36 pm »
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Clockwork knight seems a bit slow for aggresive decks no? I mean, it's only a 5/5, yeah it gives +1/1 but aggressive mech decks can do so much better.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #87 on: July 29, 2015, 05:16:27 pm »
+1

2 new legends.

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell, gain divine shield

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell deal 3 damage to a random enemy.

First one seem not great, second one seem really good. Power word shield, or pally buffs can kill so many 1 and 2 drops, and it's body is already good for 3 mana.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #88 on: July 29, 2015, 06:11:19 pm »
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2 new legends.

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell, gain divine shield

3 mana 3/4

When you target this minion with a spell deal 3 damage to a random enemy.

First one seem not great, second one seem really good. Power word shield, or pally buffs can kill so many 1 and 2 drops, and it's body is already good for 3 mana.
Ah, finally some power creep.

They tie in well with the Drakonkin Sorceror at 4 mana, so the synergy possible through building a deck with friendly target spells isn't limited to these 2 cards.

@ Savage Combatant
Well, there goes Lost Tallstrider's only potential niche as a 4-drop beast for Druid. This card could be solid.

@ Clockwork Knight
At least it's a mech, so it can come in early with Mechwarper. Still, a 5 mana body with a so-so ability isn't exactly what current mech decks are looking for. I think this card is overshadowed by almost all of the class-specific Mech-synergy cards, including Upgraded Repair Bot and Metaltooth Leaper.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #89 on: July 29, 2015, 07:07:28 pm »
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I'll be trying the new mech in a mech warrior :P Not because it's amazing, but you can curve very well with skrejank clunker.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2015, 07:34:54 pm »
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I'll be trying the new mech in a mech warrior :P Not because it's amazing, but you can curve very well with skrejank clunker.
It would be cool if it instead had an effect like "discard a random Mech and do X damage". That's more in line with the Tempo nature of Mech decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2015, 10:54:59 pm »
0

There appears to be another card reveal: Silent Knight

https://twitter.com/TrumpSC/status/626554004693106688/photo/1

3 Mana Neutral Minion
2/2
Stealth and Divine Shield

Tougher to remove than even Gilblin Stalker while stealthed, and the next turn it can be buffed to make a really good trade. This is one of those cards that, even if it's not high tier, will open up combo possibilities.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2015, 12:29:20 am »
0

There appears to be another card reveal: Silent Knight

https://twitter.com/TrumpSC/status/626554004693106688/photo/1

3 Mana Neutral Minion
2/2
Stealth and Divine Shield

Tougher to remove than even Gilblin Stalker while stealthed, and the next turn it can be buffed to make a really good trade. This is one of those cards that, even if it's not high tier, will open up combo possibilities.

Hm, at 3 mana I think it's iffy, but there's no other cost for it. Other stealth minions have combo possibilities, but T3 this guy T4 Blessing of Kings for example can give you a ridiculous trade. I don't think it's good enough unless you have buffing spells though, compares unfavorably to a 3 mana 3/4.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2015, 10:09:39 pm »
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Silent Knight is the new best option for any deck that wants to stack buffs on a single target until they get silly.  It also provides redundancy for that type of thing. 
Shaman is probably the best home.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 10:14:20 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2015, 11:35:09 pm »
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Silent Knight is the new best option for any deck that wants to stack buffs on a single target until they get silly.  It also provides redundancy for that type of thing. 
Shaman is probably the best home.

What buffs can Shaman stack on a single minion?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #95 on: July 31, 2015, 12:44:18 am »
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Over the course of a game you could do some sweet Inner Fire instagib combos with a Priest deck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #96 on: July 31, 2015, 09:29:30 am »
0

Silent Knight is the new best option for any deck that wants to stack buffs on a single target until they get silly.  It also provides redundancy for that type of thing. 
Shaman is probably the best home.

What buffs can Shaman stack on a single minion?
Like, turn five, Rockbiter, Windfury, Ancestral Spirit, kill a yeti kill a yeti get another Silent Knight.

Most important point being Ancestral Spirit, it's the best buff spell in the game.  The Injured Blade master trick is sick, just putting it on a piloted shredder and trading is sick, and when you get into matchups that you know don't have a silence or polymorph than putting it on Sludge Belcher or EE can just stop aggro forever.  If Silent Knight is useful at all (not necessarily the case), it's in an Ancestral Spirit deck where Silent Knight is a place you can throw Ancestral Spirit and get some effect out of it even in situations where your board is getting wiped every turn.  He's not the ideal target for the Spirit, but most of the really awesome ones don't have tons of health so it's a safety net.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #97 on: July 31, 2015, 05:29:27 pm »
0

So a new card has been revealed for Warlock:

Demonfuse
2 - Mana Spell

Give a demon +3/+3. Give your opponent a Mana Crystal.

So, I had just started playing around with a Demonlock deck that uses Demonfire and it happens to still win games to get me to Rank 4. There's not enough time left in the season to try to get higher than that. This makes me kind of excited to try out this card.

So anyway Demonfire is inferior to Dark Bomb when it comes to damage, but it's flexibility in being able to buff the health of your friendly demons that are about to trade is quite nice. Mistress of Pain becomes quite helpful when it's been buffed by Demonfire and of course so is Imp Gang Boss. A bigger buff for the same mana has got to be even better right, even though it can't do direct damage?

I don't know how I feel about this card's drawback though. If you want tempo advantage right now or lots of immediate face damage, there's already Arcane Golem with the same effect. Demonfire is more suited for a board control swing, but the extra mana crystal is a problem if you're leaning in that direction because those Sludge Belcher's can come out sooner.

Any other thoughts here?

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #98 on: July 31, 2015, 06:18:30 pm »
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It doesn't seem as good as Demonfire tbh. Demonfire can be used when you have no board presence, but this card is useless. It's like Rampage, but with a huge drawback.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #99 on: July 31, 2015, 06:23:29 pm »
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I guess you could feasibly use it to do some big buff and kill someone when mana barely matters anymore in a demon themed zoo deck. Like Arcane Golem or Power Overwhelming but with really a specific requirement.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2015, 06:31:50 pm »
0

I guess you could feasibly use it to do some big buff and kill someone when mana barely matters anymore in a demon themed zoo deck. Like Arcane Golem or Power Overwhelming but with really a specific requirement.
When I think about it, it seems like +3/+3 early in the game on something like Voidwalker will usually be overkill. It gets better later in the game, but I think demonlock decks want things that help with board advantage early on. Being forced to use a card like this over Dark Bomb or Demonfire can be detrimental in the long run. I still want to try it out a bit as a 1-of.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2015, 06:53:35 pm »
0

I guess let's think about this a bit

Assuming you go first:
Turn 1
You
Flame Imp or Void Walker
Opponent
Pass or plays a 2/1 or a Chow or Coins a 2 drop (we'll ignore other things as these are the most common plays)
Turn 2
You
Demonfuse into getting 6/5 minion or 4/6 with Taunt.
Opponent
Has three mana, needs to use an early game removal spell plus whatever minion they have out, or an Owl or have a soft removal like Sap/Freezing Trap.

They can't really play anything this turn unless they saved the Coin (in which case they could play a 2 drop and trade their 1 drop plus removal.) So they only get to punish you hard for this if they play a 1 drop AND have removal AND a 2 drop. Otherwise they are probably only just removing the card and trying to come back onto the board later, in which case they get a slight advantage or they're just falling super behind on board. Maybe it's not so bad? It's kinda like playing an Innervate.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 07:29:28 pm by Jorbles »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2015, 10:37:50 pm »
0

I think the card also has value when the game is at the point where your opponent plays Sludge Belcher or Druid of the Claw turn 5. Imp Gang Boss + Demonfuse or 1/1 Imp + Demonfuse + 1 attack from Dire Wolf or Argus deals 5 damage right there to get through the big part of Belcher. On Turn 6 your opponent might have wanted to play Thaurissan anyway, so they'd waste the extra mana. On the other hand, they can play Dr. Boom a turn earlier.

Basically, the extra mana for your opponent is only a big issue if they can spend that on quality (mass) removal or a game winning combo. Playing an Ancient of Lore one turn sooner isn't amazing if the demonlock player got a big tempo swing from the Demonfuse.

Saying all this, I still feel like the card is one the weak side, but I'd wager it's not the worst thing since Felguard. If it destroyed your own mana crystal instead, then Demonfuse would be pretty awful.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #103 on: August 01, 2015, 09:32:57 pm »
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Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2015, 10:03:49 pm »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
I would think screwing up your own tempo is worse than giving a boost to your opponent's tempo, no? Giving your opponent mana gives them a chance to answer your stuff sooner, but destroying your own mana makes them have less to have to answer to begin with.

Of course, the bonus of the effect itself is a factor in the worth of the cards.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 10:05:27 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #105 on: August 01, 2015, 10:26:02 pm »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #106 on: August 01, 2015, 10:41:01 pm »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2015, 03:55:10 am »
0

I would think screwing up your own tempo is worse than giving a boost to your opponent's tempo, no? Giving your opponent mana gives them a chance to answer your stuff sooner, but destroying your own mana makes them have less to have to answer to begin with.

On the other hand, if you're running Felguard, you can take that into account when building your deck. Your opponent might not be able to utilize his extra mana that well.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2015, 09:08:29 am »
0

The pre-purchase deal is pretty good, if you are into spending real money on cards.  A buck a pack is a good deal.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2015, 10:12:08 am »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.

What? If this is true I've been using the expression wrong my entire life. I'd interpret that as demonfuse being better than felguard. It's worse than every card in between felguard and demonfuse, but it's better than felguard.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2015, 10:19:03 am »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.

What? If this is true I've been using the expression wrong my entire life. I'd interpret that as demonfuse being better than felguard. It's worse than every card in between felguard and demonfuse, but it's better than felguard.

Agree with TA.  Take the inverse:

"The best thing since sliced bread" is a thing that surpasses the awesomeness of all things invented since sliced bread was created. 
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #111 on: August 02, 2015, 10:54:59 am »
0

Felguard is better than Demonfuse, therefore it is impossible for Demonfuse to be "the worst thing since Felguard".
Indepentantly of the relative strength of Felguard and Demonfuse, I think this is wrong. If something is the worst thing since some point of time, it's also the worst thing since every later point of time.
Now I'm getting confused. But say Felguard is better than Demonfuse, then you can say " Demonfuse is the worst thing since Felguard" as it means Demonfuse has surpassed the badness of Felguard. That's how the expression is used anyway.

What? If this is true I've been using the expression wrong my entire life. I'd interpret that as demonfuse being better than felguard. It's worse than every card in between felguard and demonfuse, but it's better than felguard.

Agree with TA.  Take the inverse:

"The best thing since sliced bread" is a thing that surpasses the awesomeness of all things invented since sliced bread was created.
Okay I see, that makes sense. But, where does that expression it imply that it is for sure not better that sliced bread?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 10:56:14 am by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2015, 11:01:01 am »
0

Okay I see, that makes sense. But, where does that expression it imply that it is for sure not better that sliced bread?
It doesn't.  At least not logically.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2015, 11:03:24 am »
0

The expression "best thing since sliced bread" isn't meant to convey that it is better than sliced bread, just that nothing that came out in the time since sliced bread was invented has been as good as whatever we are discussing now.

If you want to rate the new thing higher than sliced bread, you just say "best thing ever."
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2015, 11:44:06 am »
0

Sliced bread is a pretty low standard to hold ourselves to.  I apologise on behalf of my countrymen for inflicting the Chorleywood process on the world.
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Galzria

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2015, 11:45:16 am »
+1

The expression "best thing since sliced bread" isn't meant to convey that it is better than sliced bread, just that nothing that came out in the time since sliced bread was invented has been as good as whatever we are discussing now.

If you want to rate the new thing higher than sliced bread, you just say "best thing ever."

I believe that it is implied that sliced bread is still better.

In a timeline of A --- B --- C, "C is the best thing since B" implies that while nothing was better between events,  B is in fact still better. If that were not the case, you would either pick the next event back that WAS better (possibly A, possibly not) or as you say, rate it the "Best thing ever".

I suppose it's not explicit though. And word for word there's no implication on the value of B at all. At it's most basic, "C is the best thing since B" simply says that since event B nothing has happened that is better than C. The quality of B has no bearing on the statement at all.

So I guess I could see how the use of the statement varies depending on where you're from. I think my personal belief that it's implied that B is in fact better than C is probably a more inaccurate interpretation to the literal meaning of the phrase.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 11:46:26 am by Galzria »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2015, 12:21:15 pm »
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I think galzria is absolutely correct. purely logically, nothing is being said about B when we say "c is the best thing since b". However, practically, there's a reason we're choosing b as the cutoff point. I think it's pretty clearly implied that by making the statement "c is the best thing since b", you're also saying c is worse than b, otherwise why would you have arbitrarily chosen b as the cutoff?

For example, if I say something like "Zack greinke is on pace to have the lowest ERA by a pitcher since 2004", it's directly implying someone had a lower era in 2004.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2015, 12:23:35 pm »
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I interpret the expression to mean that "In the time range from the past point to the current point, excluding the boundaries, Item X is a local maximum in that range".

I'm pretty sure that's what it means.

My statement was factually incorrect therefore.  I meant that it's impossible for the common saying to be the most appropriate one, I didn't literally mean that it was impossible for his statement to be true. 

It's not possible for the head to head comparison X vs. Y in "X is the best $ since Y" to have any bearing on the truth value because the statement is understood to exclude the boundary point, if it doesn't exclude the boundary point it's a useless expression, or at least a tedious one when you have to name the moment ever so slightly after the last thing that exceeded X's $ness.


So yeah I was def making a false statement, but it was a "you know what I mean" kinda thing.  I think the card is horrible. Felguard is actually a plausible target for Sense Demons in certain Malganis handlock builds but a pump spell that equips you opponent with the extra mana to remove the thing you pumped is abysmal.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 12:25:16 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #118 on: August 02, 2015, 12:51:45 pm »
+1

BTT: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fia92/new_card_darnassus_panther_rider/
This one looks good for a change:
Quote
2 mana 2/3 druid card
Battlecry: Gain an empty mana crystal
Deathrattle: Destroy a mana crystal

It's kinda like Mechwarper for everything.
I think it's also the first card that has a Battlecry and a Deathrattle that are different.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #119 on: August 02, 2015, 12:54:14 pm »
+1

BTT: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fia92/new_card_darnassus_panther_rider/
This one looks good for a change:
Quote
2 mana 2/3 druid card
Battlecry: Gain an empty mana crystal
Deathrattle: Destroy a mana crystal

It's kinda like Mechwarper for everything.
I think it's also the first card that has a Battlecry and a Deathrattle that are different.

Oh boy. As someone who's been playing Druid lately, I looooove this card. It will also help loads against hunter and Mage (screw you, freezing trap and mirror entity!)
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2015, 12:58:23 pm »
0

I interpret the expression to mean that "In the time range from the past point to the current point, excluding the boundaries, Item X is a local maximum in that range".

I'm pretty sure that's what it means.

My statement was factually incorrect therefore.  I meant that it's impossible for the common saying to be the most appropriate one, I didn't literally mean that it was impossible for his statement to be true. 

It's not possible for the head to head comparison X vs. Y in "X is the best $ since Y" to have any bearing on the truth value because the statement is understood to exclude the boundary point, if it doesn't exclude the boundary point it's a useless expression, or at least a tedious one when you have to name the moment ever so slightly after the last thing that exceeded X's $ness.
Yeah I don't want to have to figure out the exact thing that's immediate better than something else.

So yeah I was def making a false statement, but it was a "you know what I mean" kinda thing.  I think the card is horrible. Felguard is actually a plausible target for Sense Demons in certain Malganis handlock builds but a pump spell that equips you opponent with the extra mana to remove the thing you pumped is abysmal.

Plausibly, but I've never seen it used like that. Of course, I've never seen Demonfuse either. I guess with Felguard you can get around the drawback in some ways. The value of Demonfuse fuse depends on the discrete attack values you get off the Demon you pump. Like Imp Gang boss can kill a Belcher in one hit once pumped. I was thinking you'd play Demonfuse to try to kill your opponent before they can draw their removal, but that seems ultimately futile now that I think about it.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 01:07:53 pm by markusin »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2015, 01:11:50 pm »
0

BTT: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fia92/new_card_darnassus_panther_rider/
This one looks good for a change:
Quote
2 mana 2/3 druid card
Battlecry: Gain an empty mana crystal
Deathrattle: Destroy a mana crystal

It's kinda like Mechwarper for everything.
I think it's also the first card that has a Battlecry and a Deathrattle that are different.

Oh boy. As someone who's been playing Druid lately, I looooove this card. It will also help loads against hunter and Mage (screw you, freezing trap and mirror entity!)
Even a 2 mana 2/3, "Give yourself a half-Innervate next turn if this survives" sounds neat. It even doubles for a Wild Growth if you have a brewmaster in your deck for some reason.
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #122 on: August 02, 2015, 01:12:02 pm »
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It's like bidding in Bridge.  You don't only pay attention to the meaning of the words: you have to think about the space of possibilities, and what it means that they went for that option over reasonable alternatives.

Where does Darnassus fit into Druid?  Ramp isn't running 2-drops anyway, and it's not really a Mechwarper if you want to try aggro as the "cost reduction" is only once per turn.  It's better than a 2/3 taunt, but is it going to survive often?  Maybe silencing is where it's at, but then it's getting pretty expensive.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #123 on: August 02, 2015, 01:14:14 pm »
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It's like bidding in Bridge.  You don't only pay attention to the meaning of the words: you have to think about the space of possibilities, and what it means that they went for that option over reasonable alternatives.

Where does Darnassus fit into Druid?  Ramp isn't running 2-drops anyway, and it's not really a Mechwarper if you want to try aggro as the "cost reduction" is only once per turn.  It's better than a 2/3 taunt, but is it going to survive often?  Maybe silencing is where it's at, but then it's getting pretty expensive.
Most Silences are better against enemies that your own minions. It's another card that works well with Wailing Soul though. It can also hurt a player who steals it with Sylvanas.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #124 on: August 02, 2015, 01:42:59 pm »
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Where does Darnassus fit into Druid?  Ramp isn't running 2-drops anyway, and it's not really a Mechwarper if you want to try aggro as the "cost reduction" is only once per turn.  It's better than a 2/3 taunt, but is it going to survive often?  Maybe silencing is where it's at, but then it's getting pretty expensive.

I think it's quite good vs aggro. one of the problems i have is that while on the play as ramp vs. aggro, nothing -> wild growth just isn't good enough. this will help to alleviate that issue. i think i prefer it to zombie chow as an anti aggro tech. but we'll have to see how that works out. it might not make the cut but it's definitely in contention
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #125 on: August 02, 2015, 01:55:42 pm »
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Dunno how long it's been up there, but there's a 2/1 Charge with Divine Shield for 3.  Surely that's worth talking about.  Wolf rider sees play, and I can't think of any minion I wouldn't happily axe an attack from to get divine shield
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #126 on: August 02, 2015, 03:10:51 pm »
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Dunno how long it's been up there, but there's a 2/1 Charge with Divine Shield for 3.  Surely that's worth talking about.  Wolf rider sees play, and I can't think of any minion I wouldn't happily axe an attack from to get divine shield

There's a big difference between 2 and 3 attack though.  2 attack is only going to trade with raptors, and they aren't particularly common.  I like it more than Bluegill, but that's not such a strong statement.  In the late game you're going to play a card like this for burst so I still like Wolfrider more.

i think i prefer it to zombie chow as an anti aggro tech.

I think this is right.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 03:13:50 pm by qmech »
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Titandrake

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #127 on: August 02, 2015, 03:20:03 pm »
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Wolfrider is played in decks like Face Hunter though. In constructed decks where you'd play Wolfrider, late game isn't a consideration, and you aren't going to be using it for trades. Forcing 2 separate hits from your opponent to remove it definitely seems good for Face Hunter/Aggro Paladin.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #128 on: August 02, 2015, 03:27:20 pm »
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Intuitively I'd say that I wouldn't run it in Pally aggro. It's probably going to deal something like 4 damage total which is something I'd expect to get out of a 1-drop, and it's a pain in the ass to remove it from your hand before playing a Divine Favor.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #129 on: August 02, 2015, 04:00:38 pm »
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Dunno how long it's been up there, but there's a 2/1 Charge with Divine Shield for 3.  Surely that's worth talking about.  Wolf rider sees play, and I can't think of any minion I wouldn't happily axe an attack from to get divine shield

There's a big difference between 2 and 3 attack though.  2 attack is only going to trade with raptors, and they aren't particularly common.  I like it more than Bluegill, but that's not such a strong statement.  In the late game you're going to play a card like this for burst so I still like Wolfrider more.
There are a few pretty strong raptors though, such as Knife Juggler, Sorceror's Apprentice, and Wild Pyromancer. Even aggro decks probably want to take those cards out in order not to get out-tempo/aggro'd.

I don't always want to talk about cards unless they're brought up in the thread, like the 2 mana 2/4 that can only attack if inspired or the 5 mana spell for Mage that deals 8 damage to a minion.
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #130 on: August 02, 2015, 04:15:55 pm »
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Perhaps the more relevant point is that it's trading down, even if you are left with the weak body afterwards.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #131 on: August 02, 2015, 04:30:45 pm »
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It's basically a mini-Argent Commander.
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #132 on: August 02, 2015, 04:41:23 pm »
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Argent Commander is slightly less bad as you aren't so worried about exact mana values of trades by the time you can play it, and your opponent might not have a tiny minion on the board waiting to clear the 4/2.  They're both bad in constructed, but Commander is reasonable in arena.  I'd take a 3/3 over Horserider almost always.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #133 on: August 02, 2015, 04:58:08 pm »
+1

Well, there's another new card:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fizcd/new_card_wrathguard/

2 Mana Warlock Minion
4/3 demon
"Whenever" this minion takes damage, also deal that amount to your hero.

Okay so a 2 Mana version of Flame Imp, at least early on. Later, it can make Molten Shadowflame and Oil + Blade Flurry even deadlier.

One problem with it is there are a whole bunch of aggro decks right now, and aggro vs. aggro is often decided by a few health points. Just like Flame Imp is a lot worse than Voidwalker vs. aggro. The other problem is that a card like this wants to trade up, but you take so much damage for trading with an 8/8 for example.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #134 on: August 02, 2015, 06:47:34 pm »
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People don't run pitlord. This is going to often do the same damage, or almost as much, as pitlord would. And it's stats are worse for its mana cost than Pitlord. So unless demon becomes a thing, I don't think this will be good. In arena it's decent though. The stats are good and health is less of an issue.
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #135 on: August 02, 2015, 07:23:01 pm »
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I think a huge problem is that it might singlehandedly lose games to Control Warrior.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #136 on: August 02, 2015, 07:27:35 pm »
0

I think a huge problem is that it might singlehandedly lose games to Control Warrior.

Haha! That's a trolden video for sure. someone losing to a 30 damage shield slam topdeck.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #137 on: August 02, 2015, 09:53:52 pm »
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It's a piloted shredder result, so that's gonna happen.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #138 on: August 03, 2015, 12:15:05 pm »
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New card. http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3fkp51/new_rogue_card_5_mana_37_combo_3_attack/

Rogue, 5 Mana
Shado-Pan Cavalry
3/7
Combo: +3 Attack

Looks really nice for arena. Don't think it'll be good enough for constructed, even with support it doesn't feel like it would surpass Boulderfist Ogre enough to be viable. Nice budget option though.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #139 on: August 03, 2015, 12:27:15 pm »
+1

I think the 2/1 Divine Shield charge is good in no-board-presence hunter.  If you kill a knife juggler that's fine, but you can also just ram face with it and it's a pain to kill it.

Wolf Rider does 3 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 3 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

Argent Infant does 2 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 4 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

So usually they are kinda the same as a turn 3 play.  Wolf rider is better because it provides more total damage as an end-of-game play.  But there's this bug where I can't put more than 2 Wolf Riders in my deck so this guy is actually competing against Arcane Golem, and I think he compares favorably there.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #140 on: August 03, 2015, 01:32:22 pm »
0

I think the 2/1 Divine Shield charge is good in no-board-presence hunter.  If you kill a knife juggler that's fine, but you can also just ram face with it and it's a pain to kill it.

Wolf Rider does 3 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 3 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

Argent Infant does 2 to the face, then requires the opponent to take 4 damage amongst minions and heroes to remove it using weapons and minions.

So usually they are kinda the same as a turn 3 play.  Wolf rider is better because it provides more total damage as an end-of-game play.  But there's this bug where I can't put more than 2 Wolf Riders in my deck so this guy is actually competing against Arcane Golem, and I think he compares favorably there.
It can do more damage than Wolfrider if it survives an AoE that would normally kill Wolfrider such as Consecration of Whirlwind. It won't surpass Arcane Golem's face damage though. I'm not sure which of Wolfrider and Arcane Golem you'd you'd swap for this new charger, if any.
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blueblimp

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #141 on: August 03, 2015, 05:10:37 pm »
0

I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats. Cards like Blackwing Technician, and now Shado-Pan Cavalry and Master of Ceremonies.

That kind of design just seems excessively cautious. The result, in my opinion, is boring cards. If you're going to do a card that's nothing but pumped-up stats, at least make it so that the theoretical best case is crazy, like with Frostwolf Warlord. Would Master of Ceremonies even be broken if she got +2/+2 _per_ spell damage minion instead of just once?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 05:11:40 pm by blueblimp »
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Awaclus

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #142 on: August 03, 2015, 05:30:12 pm »
0

Well, a 6/4 for 3 mana is more than slightly-above-curve.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #143 on: August 03, 2015, 05:32:07 pm »
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I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats. Cards like Blackwing Technician, and now Shado-Pan Cavalry and Master of Ceremonies.

That kind of design just seems excessively cautious. The result, in my opinion, is boring cards. If you're going to do a card that's nothing but pumped-up stats, at least make it so that the theoretical best case is crazy, like with Frostwolf Warlord. Would Master of Ceremonies even be broken if she got +2/+2 _per_ spell damage minion instead of just once?

Yeah I sort of feel this way too. You jump through hoops to get like a 1-1.5 mana boost in stats when the payoff isn't even that great compared to cards with crazy abilities, especially at the higher mana level as is the case for Shado-Pan Cavalry. At three mana though, it's not so bad to have a "stat monster", as early on you just want stuff to give you the initiative. Like, I don't mind Tinkertown Technician or Blackwing Technician since they at least fit it with a a novel theme that's core to their expansion. Each expansion should have a couple of those.

This card though, Master of Ceremonies, like why spell damage minions? The spell damage minions pay a stat cost, but you should be making up for that with spells, not a minion that makes you break even stat-wise.

Anyway 6/4 with a conditional effect is already covered by Volcanic Drake. By the time you can reliably make use of its bonus, 4 health minions aren't all that great anymore.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2015, 01:50:17 am »
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Well, a 6/4 for 3 mana is more than slightly-above-curve.
At most generous, it's 1.5 mana above curve. But even a 4 mana 6/4 would probably not be played in constructed, since it doesn't do much that Lost Tallstrider doesn't. (For example, it trades with the front half of a Piloted Shredder.) So in practice we're talking about less-than-1-mana-above-curve.

But my point is not that 6/4 stats aren't strong (although it's true, they aren't), it's that 6/4 stats are boring. Playing a 3 mana 6/4 is not going to make any highlight reels.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2015, 02:25:58 pm »
0

Looks like Battlecry-referencing effects are coming back.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19822389

4 Mana Minion (Neutral Epic)
4/4
Whenever you play a minion card with Battlecry, gain +1/+1

Edit: Looks like there are some non-minions with battlecry ex. Glaivezooka.

Interestingness of the design aside, this card looks like one to watch out for because you find lots of quality minions across all mana costs when dipping into the battlecry tag. At 1 mana 1/2 with the same effect you'd have something close to pre-nerf Undertaker.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 02:56:23 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2015, 04:56:02 pm »
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I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats.
It's because Blizzard is not very good at designing ccgs.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #147 on: August 04, 2015, 05:58:33 pm »
+1

I don't get why Blizzard keeps making cards with a fixed mana cost that have slightly-below-curve stats and a condition that buffs them to slightly-above-curve stats.
It's because Blizzard is not very good at designing ccgs.

Hrm, I'm still annoyed that a neutral, Dr. Boom is strictly better that another neutral, War Golem. There was no need to go down the path of Legendary-can-be-strictly-better except as admission that they screwed up with War Golem's power level or the desire to have people acquire new content in a more forced way.

I'm still happy that they release cards that have powerful niche effects that may only be worth it in the future when more cards are released. You can bet I'll be all over a Wailing Soul style deck if it ever becomes viable. Sadly I'm not seeing too much off-the-wall stuff like that in these recent reveals. I'd say Blackrock Mountain's cards are a good deal more interesting than the Grand Tournament cards even though most ended up being too weak to enter the high-level constructed scene.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 06:02:10 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #148 on: August 04, 2015, 06:11:14 pm »
+1

Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #149 on: August 04, 2015, 06:18:44 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 06:19:45 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #150 on: August 04, 2015, 06:38:18 pm »
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I feel part of the issue is more constraints on utility creatures. M:tG in particular gives itself more complexity to play around with through activated abilities, which I doubt will enter Hearthstone anytime soon.

None of the cards revealed so far feel like keystone cards, meaning cards you explicitly build a deck around. Mana Addict is a keystone. Grim Patron is a keystone, I'd argue Mechwarper is a keystone. Odds are I'm underestimating Inspire, but I've yet to see something that makes me want to try building a deck around it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #151 on: August 04, 2015, 07:11:51 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.

I like Dr. Boom. It goes in every deck and takes up an expensive minion card slot from every deck, which otherwise would have been a less versatile legendary in many cases.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #152 on: August 04, 2015, 07:19:43 pm »
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I feel part of the issue is more constraints on utility creatures. M:tG in particular gives itself more complexity to play around with through activated abilities, which I doubt will enter Hearthstone anytime soon.

None of the cards revealed so far feel like keystone cards, meaning cards you explicitly build a deck around. Mana Addict is a keystone. Grim Patron is a keystone, I'd argue Mechwarper is a keystone. Odds are I'm underestimating Inspire, but I've yet to see something that makes me want to try building a deck around it.

It's true, eh? We haven't seen anything that really encourages you to make an inspire deck. All it takes is a couple or really good inspire cards. With those in existence, all the inspire and inspire support cards shoot up in value. If they think cards like Coldarra Drake are going to single-handedly make inspire work, then they are mistaken.

I think the closest "keystone" card we've seen so far is Frost Giant, but mainly for Echo Mage. That's cool because the Giants in general push for certain playstyles and have helped create some powerful deck archetypes in the past (Molten + Mountain for Handlock and Sea Giant for new Imp-losion style zoo). Frost Giants keep their lowered cost when copied with Echo Mage after all, and work well with Duplicate and Effigy. Unfortunately getting good value out Frost Giants takes time and needs support from cards like Garrison Commander, Fallen Hero, and maybe Maiden of the Lake to pan out.

It might still be too slow and not a very good deck, but low-cost Frost Giants is at least a dream that can be aimed for throughout the continued lifetime of Hearthstone.

Dr. Boom annoys me in general.

I like Dr. Boom. It goes in every deck and takes up an expensive minion card slot from every deck, which otherwise would have been a less versatile legendary in many cases.
Yeah I guess its not so bad to have a generic high mana value card that fits in most decks. Ragnaros just doesn't cut it anymore, though Sylvanas also works in lots of places.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #153 on: August 04, 2015, 08:01:14 pm »
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I think the Inspire one drop seems like the most viable card in the set so far.  Turn one it is great.  Later turns, you don't want to let someone attack into it before it has gained attack, but it shouldn't be too difficult to jam it in just before a hero power activation you would have done anyway.

In mage it is strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman, which is cute.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #154 on: August 04, 2015, 08:28:31 pm »
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It's not strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman in mage since it uses upyour hero power, so you can't deal 2 damage with it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #155 on: August 04, 2015, 10:23:46 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #156 on: August 04, 2015, 11:22:45 pm »
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Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.
It's more like the only worthy big minions happen to be Legendaries. Yeah, I think the game's become a lot more cruel to new players than it was before Naxx when I started.

I think the Inspire one drop seems like the most viable card in the set so far.  Turn one it is great.  Later turns, you don't want to let someone attack into it before it has gained attack, but it shouldn't be too difficult to jam it in just before a hero power activation you would have done anyway.

In mage it is strictly better than Ironforge Rifleman, which is cute.
I regard most low-mana, 1-attack minions that can increase their attack power as having some worth just because of Hobgoblin. Any deck that makes use of early game 1-attack minions can turn them into mid-game cards with Hobgoblin. Back when Mech-Mage was a thing, it was nice that Hobgoblin could boost Mana Wyrm, Cogmaster, Annoy-o-tron, and Micro Machine.

Edit: Spelling
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 11:25:45 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #157 on: August 05, 2015, 08:55:57 am »
0

Dr. Boom annoys me in general.
When I first saw its card text, "Warning: Boom bots may EXPLODE", I though it implied that the Boom bots had a chance of exploding right after being summoned and backfiring on Dr. Boom or other friendly characters. That would have been better for balance I think. Maybe that was the original plan, but they bailed on it near the release of GvG #ConspiracyKeanu.

It's just some of the legendary minions are just so ridiculous powerful that it ends up not being any fun playing Ranked games sometimes if you're a newer player.  I just feel lucky I at least got a Ragnaros in one of my first packs.

Check it out:

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19817948/the-grand-tournament-at-gamescom-8-5-2015

They're finally going to give rewards besides card backs based on your Rank at the end of each season so long as you pass Rank 20. The better your Rank, the more golden cards you get, bit the less dust you're rewarded (though it doesn't look like much dust to begin with).

Also, there are a whole bunch of newly revealed cards in that blog post. There's a new "Joust" mechanic: both players reveal a random minion from their deck, and if the card belonging to the initiator of the joust costs more, that card gets a bonus effect. Ex. There's a 5 mana 5/5 that, if it wins a joust, restores 7 health to your hero.

In other news, inspire minions continue to be have stats that are woefully below curve.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 08:57:13 am by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2015, 09:06:24 am »
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Joust (along with actual cards that were presented) seems to encourage control paladin
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2015, 09:08:49 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card! Also some of these actually look decent. They seem to want Warrior to play lots of Taunts, but that buffs seems good if you get it on two minions, sometimes even 1. Master jouster seems pretty strong too vs. aggro.  A card that actually helps control decks a lot. The paladin card is cool too, although right now they run more midrange stuff. It has potential though, and the heal is pretty big. That 1 drop is interesting too. Will it make turn 1 Injured Kvaldr into circle a thing? Maybe not, but it ups the value potential for priest to play circle. Old school Injured blademaster Priest gets a buff :P

EDIT: The legends aren't great. Gromok is too much of a win more card, but MAYBE since Shaman is getting a buff you might pump enough totems out to make it work. And Skeleton Knight is a big iffy for the stats. It's cool that it can come back, and in heavy control that might be good. But control vs control it's terrible. And low health vs aggro is bad. Doesn't seem strong.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:11:23 am by KingZog3 »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #160 on: August 05, 2015, 09:10:46 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #161 on: August 05, 2015, 09:35:59 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo
They just keep wanting to make Lava shock good.

I like that Injured 1-drop (also slight buff to Resurrect) and Gormok. Zoo decks usually have a couple of turns where they have a massive board, and over-confident token decks have the option to include this.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #162 on: August 05, 2015, 09:36:31 am »
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Shaman's get a draw card!

Shaman's draw card is terribad though. Overload is good when you play it on curve to gain tempo, but card draw is not what you want for tempo

Mean, yeah, but I'll give it a try anyway in the new slow shaman decks they're pushing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #163 on: August 05, 2015, 09:52:02 am »
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Some more new cards here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/968-new-card-reveals-from-gamescom-new-mechanic-joust

Not sure I like the idea of this Jousting thing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2015, 10:57:58 am »
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Some more new cards here: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/968-new-card-reveals-from-gamescom-new-mechanic-joust

Not sure I like the idea of this Jousting thing.
Worth noting that every single joust card ia a Battlecry and so interacts with the Crowd Favourite (4 mana 4/4 that gaina +1/+1 per Battlecry minion you play) and Nerub'ar Weblord. But like I don't see why I would use the 1 mana 1/2 jouster over Zombie Chow. The Armored Warhorse looks interesting, but I can't visualize what deck would want it. The value of the Tuskarr Jouster and Master Jouster seem more apparent though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #165 on: August 05, 2015, 11:26:17 am »
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Injured Kvaldir + Ancestral Healing = 2/4 Taunt for 1 Mana (2 cards)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #166 on: August 05, 2015, 02:54:02 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #167 on: August 05, 2015, 03:09:28 pm »
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Some of these cards are looking better - I'm sure Aviana is not viable at all but I'm going to hope I pull one to try shenanigans.

I can see Joust becoming annoying, but it's not like there isn't precedent for it. M:tG had a similar mechanic called "clash". IIRC people weren't that fond of it, but it was much more consistent than it looked. (Although for the M:tG version, each player revealed the top card, then each player chooses to leave it on top or put it at the bottom. So even though the mechanic was random, the better player could still make better filtering decisions, and revealing a cheap card meant you could make sure you didn't draw that card next turn.)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #168 on: August 05, 2015, 03:59:18 pm »
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Some of these cards are looking better - I'm sure Aviana is not viable at all but I'm going to hope I pull one to try shenanigans.

I can see Joust becoming annoying, but it's not like there isn't precedent for it. M:tG had a similar mechanic called "clash". IIRC people weren't that fond of it, but it was much more consistent than it looked. (Although for the M:tG version, each player revealed the top card, then each player chooses to leave it on top or put it at the bottom. So even though the mechanic was random, the better player could still make better filtering decisions, and revealing a cheap card meant you could make sure you didn't draw that card next turn.)

MtG has more tools for controlling what's on top of your deck, though. Hearthstone has basically nothing.

OTOH, MtG requires (almost) every deck to run a bunch of cards that cost 0.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #169 on: August 05, 2015, 04:18:36 pm »
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Joust = Aggro counter balance
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #170 on: August 05, 2015, 04:30:58 pm »
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So, is it just me or does the rogue legendary look really good for a control rogue? Also great in arena

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #171 on: August 05, 2015, 04:46:37 pm »
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So, is it just me or does the rogue legendary look really good for a control rogue? Also great in arena
I don't know if he's a reason to go control Rogue, but it would work quite well in that deck. It's like multiple big drops packed into one card. It's a step up from Malorne.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #172 on: August 05, 2015, 04:48:38 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.

I don't think there will be Joust decks, and even if they are they still need stuff to play early game, and the opponent will often play some expensive cards.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #173 on: August 05, 2015, 04:49:40 pm »
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Aviana might be powerful if a Thaurissan cost reduction happens after the "cost (1)" reduction. That would make all minions whose cost is reduced by Thaurissan cost 0 mana once you play this, and so you can drop a whole bunch on minions at once with this turn 9.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 04:51:25 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #174 on: August 05, 2015, 04:50:57 pm »
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Giving card draw to every class is a good thing, imo.

In constructed, the RNG on Joust will only be annoying when Joust decks fight other Joust decks.  When Joust decks go against nonJoust decks the result will probably be very consistent, putting Deathwing into your deck just to troll a Joust deck will backfire really hard if you queue up against an aggro hunter.
If Joust decks are good enough that the mirror comes up a lot then that could be annoying.  But hopefully it's viability level is about like Murloc, where the amount of time you spend raging that Murkeye makes the Murloc mirror mega coinflippy is almost nonexistent because Murloc is so fringe that there are no mirrors.

I don't think there will be Joust decks, and even if they are they still need stuff to play early game, and the opponent will often play some expensive cards.
Depending on how good the cards are there may be a few decks with a couple of Joust cards in them.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #175 on: August 05, 2015, 04:55:48 pm »
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Yeah, but I don't think it will be a defining part of those decks, but rather the best Joust cards thrown into control decks.

Aviana looks strong with Thaurissan because it will allow you to play one extra minion per cost reduce. I see no way minions becoem free unless Thaurissan activates while Aviana is in play.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #176 on: August 05, 2015, 06:37:28 pm »
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I dont think Joust is meant to be a thing to build around, more just a control deck mechanic.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #177 on: August 05, 2015, 06:40:41 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #178 on: August 05, 2015, 06:57:12 pm »
0

If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

I disagree. The 5/6 taunt divine shield seems good vs. aggro. They might be meta game calls, but they are good in higher cost decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #179 on: August 05, 2015, 07:20:39 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2015, 07:27:58 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Could you make a Druid Ramp deck with many Jousting cards? You don't have a lot of low cost minions in a Ramp deck.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2015, 08:33:58 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Could you make a Druid Ramp deck with many Jousting cards? You don't have a lot of low cost minions in a Ramp deck.

This is what I was thinking.  I'd win most jousts with my current Ramp deck.
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Watno

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #182 on: August 05, 2015, 09:08:19 pm »
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You can hardly call that a deck designed around Joust, since it already works without it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #183 on: August 05, 2015, 10:03:41 pm »
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You can hardly call that a deck designed around Joust, since it already works without it.
What's cool about the joust mechanic is that it's not really an archetype that truly needs self-support, just like Battlecry minions don't need other Battlecry minions to provide value. For joust you just need a high curve deck, and you have different above-curve effects to choose from. Not to say any of the joust cards seen so far are super powers.

The 5/6 joust minion trades really well with most popular minions below 7 mana if you win the joust, and does a little bit more for you than Sylvanas against aggro.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #184 on: August 05, 2015, 11:08:23 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #185 on: August 05, 2015, 11:13:35 pm »
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If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"

That sounds terrible. I think they will enter in control decks that aren't focused on the jousting, but the jousting is good because they run big minions. Maybe new giant decks? Control pally, control shaman. They may end up being tier 2 kind of decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #186 on: August 05, 2015, 11:14:52 pm »
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I completely failed to notice that it only reveals minions until now. That changes quite a bit.
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KingZog3

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #187 on: August 06, 2015, 12:46:49 am »
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I completely failed to notice that it only reveals minions until now. That changes quite a bit.

It's quite a big deal. Pushes control and isn't just a random effect. :P
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #188 on: August 06, 2015, 09:37:50 am »
+1

If Joust isn't good enough to build around, I don't think it's good enough to play at all, based on the cards we've seen so far.

How do you imagine a deck to be build around Joust to look like?

Like, "I'm running Power of the Wild/Feral Wolves/Demonfire instead of a cheap creature, because this is a joust deck"

That sounds terrible. I think they will enter in control decks that aren't focused on the jousting, but the jousting is good because they run big minions. Maybe new giant decks? Control pally, control shaman. They may end up being tier 2 kind of decks.
Polymorph was a very viable Magic deck, it ran 59 noncreatures cards and 1 creature card.  It's hard to play 29 spells and 1 minion right now, but each new set will make it more possible to do that because we'll get more spells that are similar in quality to minions of the same cost, like Flamecannon.

Right now with the joust cards we've seen so far there's not enough quantity and quality in the jousters to motivate you to skew your whole deck towards it.  But I think we might see more joust cards.

I really don't think the joust cards will end up being cards you just hurl into control decks with no deckbuilding consideration though.  In Magic, "reveal a random card of your deck and check it for a certain quality" has always resulted in totally building around the card or totally refusing to use it at all.  Vampire Nocturnus, Polymorph, Cascade, Delver of Secrets, and Clone Shell all turned out that way (Clone Shell counting as an example of "totally refusing to use this in a competitive deck at all", it was not good enough).

Even though this mechanic seems somewhat less affected by the buff trigger than those other random reveals, the way they are designed so far makes it difficult to play the cards in control unless you know who's going to win the joust.  If you have 6 mana, a Master Jouster, a Sludge Belcher, and a Cairne Bloodhoof in hand, you're going to play Sludge Belcher if you need taunt to stay alive, and Cairne Bloodhoof if you need to generate long term advantage but your health total is ok.  And if that's how you're going to end up playing your deck anyway, why not run a Piloted Shredder or Shieldmaiden instead at that point?  Restoring health to hero and buffing to enough stats to win a trade are also things where you need to know the outcome in order to play the card over something else in your hand.  The only kind of effect I can think of where you could be ok to joust-n-pray is drawing cards, which is what Skeleton Knight does, but they were mega cautious with him so the card you draw is pretty terrible (needed at least 5 health to be worth a serious look).
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 09:39:27 am by popsofctown »
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2015, 01:32:24 pm »
0

Dark Portal
3 mana Neutral Minion
0/2
If this card is discarded, summon a 6/3 (Take that, Millers).

Dark Portal/Feel Reaver Combo! But they have to be in the same kingdom :P.

They gone done it:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22332-fist-of-jaraxxus

4 Mana Rare Warlock Spell
When you play or discard this, deal 4 damage to a random enemy.

A Flamecannon that can hit face for way more mana. Normally, hitting face would suck, but when you're hoping for a finish with Doomguard or Soulfire hitting face can give you lethal. Could be useful down the road.

P.S. heh, "Feel" Reaver.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2015, 01:39:32 pm »
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Zooooooooooo!
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2015, 01:40:46 pm »
+1

This one looks really nice I think.

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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2015, 01:49:21 pm »
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This one looks really nice I think.

<Charged Hammer Image>
I was just about to post that one. Totally came out of left field given the totem stuff they were pushing for.

"Try our free demo trial for 2 damage a turn for 4 turns before deciding if charged hero power is right for you". Hey, maybe Shaman wouldn't be as desperate for card draw if they could use their hero power to good effect.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #193 on: August 07, 2015, 02:00:33 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2015, 02:06:41 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
The 4 durability is a problem so long as you need to preserve your life total, which Shaman does need to do generally. It curves into Doomhammer and Powermace + hero power. If there was some other as-yet-unseen synergy with this card, it could push this card over the top.

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #195 on: August 07, 2015, 02:15:03 pm »
+1

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #196 on: August 07, 2015, 02:43:37 pm »
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It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
I don't think Shaman would play Stormforged Axe for 3 mana, so I don't think they'd play this at 4 mana. Shaman doesn't really have weapon synergy cards either besides Doomhammer + Rockbiter.

Then again Shaman already had big minions and spells to easily kill 3+ health minions, so the stats of this weapon kind of compliment the Shaman arsenal.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #197 on: August 07, 2015, 03:21:32 pm »
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Druid gets a strictly better Holy Smite, makes me want to see if I can't resurrect Gadgetzan Druid.  Though that's not necessary for the card to just be plain good, I suspect. 

There's another Silver Hand Recruits matter, and that really annoys me because it makes Paladin swingier based on whether they draw their 3 mana spell, whatever it's called again.

New shaman weapon is probably ok in decks with Powermace + Arcane Nullifier.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #198 on: August 07, 2015, 03:24:41 pm »
0

Flavor win: Priest now has the best "Restore N health" spell, finally.
Flavor loss: Aggro warrior minion named "Alexstraza's champion" is actually a horrible nombo with Alexstraza.  Also my name is Alex, and I don't like it.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #199 on: August 07, 2015, 04:25:13 pm »
0

Flavor win: Priest now has the best "Restore N health" spell, finally.
Flavor loss: Aggro warrior minion named "Alexstraza's champion" is actually a horrible nombo with Alexstraza.  Also my name is Alex, and I don't like it.
Priest: That's a card that probably should have been in the classic set, with Holy Fire coming in later.
Warrior: It seems that it's a nombo with pops too. Thought it would be a joust card based on the art. It does look like the most natural fit for a dragon synergy card so far.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #200 on: August 07, 2015, 04:57:22 pm »
0

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #201 on: August 07, 2015, 05:38:10 pm »
0

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.

Maybe, activating it yourself does seem like what you should do, but you'd probably prefer activating it with a Doomhammer or a Blingtron. I think you probably just run one of these (if any at all), the fact that the second one doesn't really provide any great benefit really makes me think you probably aren't going to want to run two.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #202 on: August 07, 2015, 05:48:14 pm »
0

It's 4 mana though... and has 4 durability is it too slow? How do you get it out? Cast another weapon after? Or do you just play it so if your opponent plays Harrison Jones they have to give you a better hero power?
...

It's a bit funny to say the 4 durability makes it too slow when the weapon does 2 damage without having to pay the 2 mana to use your hero power to do 2 damage.

Yeah, I felt weird typing it, but it does feel like you're paying 4 mana for a 2 drop worth of board presence (that eventually pays off turn 7). If you can't activate the improved hero power for 3 turns after you play it you might never get to use the improved hero power, in which case you just get a weak weapon with lots of durability, which is maybe good enough? Weapons are pretty good.

I guess the real question is would you play it if it didn't have the deathrattle? If you wouldn't I'm not sure if it's good enough. Because games will often be decided by the time the deathrattle goes off.
Coming back to this, The hero power doesn't stack with multiple Charged Hammers like Shadowform, but you'd need to run 2 copies to reliably draw this. It's not so bad because you can break your Charged Hammer with the second copy. This may be how the card ultimately plays out.

Maybe, activating it yourself does seem like what you should do, but you'd probably prefer activating it with a Doomhammer or a Blingtron. I think you probably just run one of these (if any at all), the fact that the second one doesn't really provide any great benefit really makes me think you probably aren't going to want to run two.
In that case, your strategy had to take into account that you likely won't have this hero power for most of the game if at all, but may end up with it at some point, in case you'd prefer to have totems.

Breaking this with Blingtron is of course risky because you're likely to give your opponent a weapon when they didn't have one before, as opposed to you just having a Power Mace or sometthing. You get a 3/4 out of the deal, so it generally doesn't look like something you want to be doing.
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Jorbles

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #203 on: August 07, 2015, 06:22:05 pm »
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Yeah, I don't think it's good enough to build a whole strategy around. Nice to have if you can fit the cards to get it going quickly, but you can't count on this as the backbone of your deck. Maybe a fallback if whatever you're trying to do in the earlier game doesn't work.
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #204 on: August 07, 2015, 11:58:22 pm »
0

Have you tried thinking about it this way: in the right deck, I would pay 4 mana for a 2 attack weapon that had infinite durability.  And the shaman weapon is strictly better than that weapon.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #205 on: August 08, 2015, 01:31:30 am »
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Have you tried thinking about it this way: in the right deck, I would pay 4 mana for a 2 attack weapon that had infinite durability.  And the shaman weapon is strictly better than that weapon.
Hmm, you know I'm not even sure this isn't better than a straight up Shadowform for 4 mana.

Shadowform's problem is that it's slow. Playing it in turn 3 sets you behind on the board and you have to constantly spend 2 mana to deal 2 damage. With the Shaman Weapon, you spend health instead of mana for the first 4 charges, which means you aren't set back nearly as much in the early turns after equipping the weapon. After the deathrattle, you'll typically have more spare mana to use on the hero power, maybe even with hero power booster cards like Maiden of the Lake.

It like that they didn't just offer totem tribe to Shaman in this expansion.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #206 on: August 08, 2015, 03:44:51 pm »
+1

Buh?

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22334-astral-communion

Astral Communication
4 Mana Druid Spell
Gain 10 Mana Crystals.
Discard your hand.

Don't know what to make of this one. At 4 mana it's hard to combo it with stuff like Loot Hoarder and Acolytes while still getting value out of it. Works well with Innervate though.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #207 on: August 08, 2015, 04:51:56 pm »
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Buh?

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22334-astral-communion

Astral Communication
4 Mana Druid Spell
Gain 10 Mana Crystals.
Discard your hand.

Don't know what to make of this one. At 4 mana it's hard to combo it with stuff like Loot Hoarder and Acolytes while still getting value out of it. Works well with Innervate though.

woah. no idea if this works but it's sweet
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popsofctown

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #208 on: August 08, 2015, 06:37:25 pm »
0

Why does the card say "gain 10 mana crystals" and not "gain 9 mana crystals".  At first I thought the card was supposed to convey, "Ok, we need to convey that you're going to be at the mana cap for the rest of the game using a finite number of mana crystals gained", but 9 is the number that conveys that, not 10.  You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

Does 10 rather than 9 mean you're getting a Excess Mana for each of these crystals beyond 10?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 06:39:10 pm by popsofctown »
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qmech

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #209 on: August 08, 2015, 07:03:26 pm »
0

I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
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markusin

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #210 on: August 08, 2015, 07:04:00 pm »
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Why does the card say "gain 10 mana crystals" and not "gain 9 mana crystals".  At first I thought the card was supposed to convey, "Ok, we need to convey that you're going to be at the mana cap for the rest of the game using a finite number of mana crystals gained", but 9 is the number that conveys that, not 10.  You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

Does 10 rather than 9 mean you're getting a Excess Mana for each of these crystals beyond 10?
Based on the wording alone compared to wld growth, there is no reason not to believe it will give you Excess Mana, except that it would potentially be a ridiculous draw card later in the game. Maybe not because you pay 2 mana per draw and you discard your hand. Does anyone know if Nourish gives Excess Mana? I never tried it myself because the draw option is strictly better at 9-10 mana.

Edit:
I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
Yeah that makes sense.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #211 on: August 08, 2015, 07:10:42 pm »
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Wild Growth is a very special case.  The official explanation for getting Excess Mana is that drawing it late feels so bad otherwise.  Nourish doesn't produce Excess Mana as you still have the draw option.  Darnassus uses exactly the same wording as Wild Growth but won't produce Excess Mana either.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #212 on: August 08, 2015, 07:15:37 pm »
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I think it means that if you play it on 4 mana you have 10 full mana crystals (compare Nourish).  If you can get cards into hand then you can start to play them straight away.
Oh, right.  I forgot, you could have a Loot Hoarder on board and ram it into something.

Good luck with doing that reliably... but yeah, that makes sense for the wording now.  Before I was thinking 9 mana would be more than adequate for Hero Power, the only mana use left.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #213 on: August 08, 2015, 07:40:02 pm »
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Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #214 on: August 08, 2015, 08:29:07 pm »
+1

I'm fine with crazy combo cards that never pan out.  Someone will have fun with them, and they don't -hurt- the game.    It's different form 5 mana sylvanas which hurt the game, and the incoming demonfire which will not cause anyone to have fun.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #215 on: August 08, 2015, 09:35:29 pm »
+1

I'm guessing the card drawn by Gadgetzan Auctioneer would be discarded?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #216 on: August 08, 2015, 10:44:39 pm »
+1

I'm guessing the card drawn by Gadgetzan Auctioneer would be discarded?
Yeah.  Soulfire works that way.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #217 on: August 08, 2015, 11:57:20 pm »
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Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #218 on: August 09, 2015, 12:03:00 am »
+1

Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.

Ho boii. That'll be fun to try. It'll never work, but I'll be doing it :P
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #219 on: August 09, 2015, 12:32:06 am »
+1

Astral Communion, that is some bold card design. In spirit it reminds me of some Shaman cards (Ancestor's Call, Reincarnate), and probably it'll suffer the same fate of being a bit too gimmicky, but it's nice to see them print interesting cards.
You can count on someone trying to build decks full of draw and big fatties along with this card. An extremely greedy combo with Jeeves might even be tried.

Ho boii. That'll be fun to try. It'll never work, but I'll be doing it :P
I can only hope that the two people who will lose to it have a sense of humour.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #220 on: August 09, 2015, 08:34:37 am »
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You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

There are edge cases where it's possible. For example, you have 5 copies of the new druid minion that destroys a manaa crystal on deathrattle, (either through Duolicate o because it's Arena), Baron Rivendare, and you Astral Communication costs 0 due to Thaurrissan/Millhouse.

Card sure seems interesting.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #221 on: August 09, 2015, 05:10:40 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #222 on: August 09, 2015, 06:10:51 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #223 on: August 09, 2015, 08:50:34 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk

I think it's more as a concept. If Druid gets some card that can abuse hero power a lot, it could work.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #224 on: August 09, 2015, 09:58:16 pm »
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Seems like the intention is to combo it with something like Coldarra Drake, although using Druid Hero Power a lot of times isn't as good as other classes. Also, Coldarra Drake costs 6 and is a mage class card...

Well, it's interesting at any rate.

Even though Coldarra Drake is mage class card, Kripp used it as a use example in the reveal video.  I guess he didn't notice? idk

I think it's more as a concept. If Druid gets some card that can abuse hero power a lot, it could work.

Ancient of Kick-Ass

Use your hero power as often as you like.

5/5 something mana cost whatever
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #225 on: August 10, 2015, 01:13:40 pm »
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Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #226 on: August 10, 2015, 01:20:27 pm »
+1

Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
Pretty cool card.

Dreadsteed - Warlock Epic (Minion)
4 Mana 1/1 Demon
Deathrattle: Summon a Dreadsteed

Also, looks like Dominion's Cutpurse is invading Hearthstone:
http://www.hearthhead.com/news=248654/lance-bearer-and-cutpurse-cards-from-the-grand-tournament-revealed
Kinda like the Lance Bearer in that post.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #227 on: August 10, 2015, 01:52:13 pm »
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Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #228 on: August 10, 2015, 01:57:03 pm »
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Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.

No, there'd need to be some crazy interaction with other new cards to make that playable.  Now if it had Charge...
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #229 on: August 10, 2015, 01:57:40 pm »
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You can't have zero mana crystals, I can't even think of a way to have the resources to use Baron Rivendare+new temp mana crystal guy to get down that low.

There are edge cases where it's possible. For example, you have 5 copies of the new druid minion that destroys a manaa crystal on deathrattle, (either through Duolicate o because it's Arena), Baron Rivendare, and you Astral Communication costs 0 due to Thaurrissan/Millhouse.

Card sure seems interesting.
This can happen on turn 2 in constructed, doesn't need more than 2 guys.

P2T1: coin Innervate, x2 mana destruct guy.
P1T2: Milhouse
P2T2: sack both mana destructoguys, (now at 0 mana), play astral for free.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #230 on: August 10, 2015, 02:00:26 pm »
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Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.
No, there'd need to be some crazy interaction with other new cards to make that playable.  Now if it had Charge...
Warrior synergy. Cripes. If a warrior could somehow get one in hand with Warsong, 7 mana, summon a 2/3, a charging 1/1 and destroy all enemy minions (roughly).


« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:02:15 pm by Haddock »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #231 on: August 10, 2015, 02:01:30 pm »
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Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
Pretty cool card.

Dreadsteed - Warlock Epic (Minion)
4 Mana 1/1 Demon
Deathrattle: Summon a Dreadsteed

Also, looks like Dominion's Cutpurse is invading Hearthstone:
http://www.hearthhead.com/news=248654/lance-bearer-and-cutpurse-cards-from-the-grand-tournament-revealed
Kinda like the Lance Bearer in that post.

I was pretty excited about this card until I saw the cost. Now I think it's pretty underwhelming. If it was 3 I think there'd be some fun decks that use it. If it was 2 it would be OP.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #232 on: August 10, 2015, 02:03:28 pm »
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Looks pretty good for Zoolock since they run enough buffing cards such as Dire Wolf and PO.  It makes it so you always have a minion to buff with PO, which is significant a lot of the time.  Being able to shadowflame it, void terror it, and still have a guy to buff is pretty nice.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #233 on: August 10, 2015, 02:15:49 pm »
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Well.  Dreadsteed will go well with Baron Riverdare.
Pretty cool card.

Dreadsteed - Warlock Epic (Minion)
4 Mana 1/1 Demon
Deathrattle: Summon a Dreadsteed

Also, looks like Dominion's Cutpurse is invading Hearthstone:
http://www.hearthhead.com/news=248654/lance-bearer-and-cutpurse-cards-from-the-grand-tournament-revealed
Kinda like the Lance Bearer in that post.

I was pretty excited about this card until I saw the cost. Now I think it's pretty underwhelming. If it was 3 I think there'd be some fun decks that use it. If it was 2 it would be OP.
I think they were conservative with the cost because of the potential with Baron Rivendare. If you ever get 4 or more of these things on the board at once, it would enable a wonky Control Warlock archetype that runs lots of AoE like Hellfires, Demonwraths, Explosive Sheeps, supported by minions like Sea Giant, Anima Golem, Cult Master, Gormok. You don't want that craziness to be easy.

As it, it's the ultimately utility card for zoo in that it helps guarantee value for all minions that need another minion to do stuff (Sergeant, Dire Wolf, Argus, Void Terror, Power Overwhelming, knife Juggler after respawn, etc.) but gives very little value outside of those synergies. If you think of it as a permanent free Mage hero power for 4 mana, you can also least see how it fits the theme of the expansion.

I am definitely trying this thing out.

Is dreadsteed good though? I mean it's cool, but so what if I have infinite 1/1's? Silence kills it too, so it's 4 mana do nothing then.
No, there'd need to be some crazy interaction with other new cards to make that playable.  Now if it had Charge...
Warrior synergy. Cripes. If a warrior could somehow get one in hand with Warsong, 7 mana, summon a 2/3, a charging 1/1 and destroy all enemy minions (roughly).
Or summon this for your opponent and go to town with Grim Patron + Warsong.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #234 on: August 10, 2015, 02:26:14 pm »
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I think Void Steed has more promise for Handlock than Zoolock, although it doesn't have much promise in either.  In Handlock you already have a big silence target in Twilight Drake, so if you run Void Steed and both Sludge Belchers then you can get your opponent to run out of silences.

There are some auxillary benefits to getting the guy out there as handlock.  You can sac pact him after dropping moltens, although that's probably janky, especially since it's a demon so it nombos with Voidcaller for Malganis handlock, which is the main other use for sac pact.  You always have the ability to cycle Mortal Coil, that's nice.  It can do 1 damage to some minion every turn, that's nice.  Most importantly, every time you drop a Sunfury or DoA there will be a little dude to taunt up on one side, and it only takes 1 HP of taunt to block an entire attack.
And there's the PO shadowflame, that too.

Maybe it's a card, but probably not. 

Cutpurse got me excited, but then I realized it's a Pint Sized Summoner that can't be a Pint Sized Summoner if you need to trade it with a 3/2, probably not good enough :/
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #235 on: August 10, 2015, 02:29:03 pm »
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I hope someone in a big streamed tournament pulls Voidsteed out of their Piloted Sky Golem, drops Warsong Commander, but loses because the animation times make it impossible for him to clear board in time.  Then maybe Blizzard would be forced to make some improvements.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #236 on: August 10, 2015, 02:32:00 pm »
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I'm somewhat excited about Lance Bearer. It looks like it could be a pretty nice replacement for Dire Wolf Alpha in my Pally aggro build.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #237 on: August 10, 2015, 02:37:01 pm »
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I'm somewhat excited about Lance Bearer. It looks like it could be a pretty nice replacement for Dire Wolf Alpha in my Pally aggro build.
Yeah the Lance Bearer is nice because it punishes passive opponents. Say you have a Nerubian Egg of whatever and your opponent has no minions, you'd often want to hold off on cards like Abusive Sergeant or Dire Wolf if they're your only enabler. With this card you can buff your creates and the creature you buff remains a problem instead of the Lance Bearer. And it's +2 attack which is enough to be meaningful.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #238 on: August 10, 2015, 02:37:47 pm »
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I dunno.  DWA is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 2/2 with 0 minions on board.  Lance Bearer is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 1/2 with 0 minions on board.

Yeah I like it with Egg, ninja-markusin, but Egg isn't used in aggro pally.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #239 on: August 10, 2015, 02:39:58 pm »
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I dunno.  DWA is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 2/2 with 0 minions on board.  Lance Bearer is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 1/2 with 0 minions on board.
But it's one less charging damage at 1 minion than Lance Bearer, and the buff doesn't go away after the Lance Bearer dies. Dire Wolf is considerably better after something like Implosion and Muster for Battle however.

Edit from pops ninja edit: true Nerubian doesn't see use in aggro Pally. It sure makes Shielded Mini-bot a lot more threatening though
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:41:23 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #240 on: August 10, 2015, 05:38:26 pm »
0

I dunno.  DWA is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 2/2 with 0 minions on board.  Lance Bearer is 3/2 with 1 minion on board, 1/2 with 0 minions on board.
But it's one less charging damage at 1 minion than Lance Bearer, and the buff doesn't go away after the Lance Bearer dies. Dire Wolf is considerably better after something like Implosion and Muster for Battle however.

Edit from pops ninja edit: true Nerubian doesn't see use in aggro Pally. It sure makes Shielded Mini-bot a lot more threatening though
Thinking about this a little more, Lance Bearer is quite dangerous when paired with Divine Shield minions. Turn 1 Argent Squire or coined Mini-bot. Turn 2 buff Divine Shield minion with Lance Bearer and kill whatever minion they just played (even Zombie Chow) or just go face if they didn't play any minions. This puts your opponent in a tough situation before you even had a chance to play Muster For Battle. It also gives you more reason to play that 2/1 Divine Shield charger over Wolfrider.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #241 on: August 10, 2015, 05:44:11 pm »
0

Cutpurse got me excited, but then I realized it's a Pint Sized Summoner that can't be a Pint Sized Summoner if you need to trade it with a 3/2, probably not good enough :/
You can give it a little more credit than that since the coin can work on spells, and so on Turn 2 you can go face then Coin+HP+Deadly Poison to kill the 2 drop. If your opponent plays an Unstable Ghoul then you can cry. At 2 health it's not made to last. It can't even stand up to a Leper Gnome or Zombie Chow on it's own.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #242 on: August 10, 2015, 06:38:18 pm »
0

Also, Cutpurse is a Pint Sized Summoner that lets you hoard more than 1 coin if you need the mana reduction later. The coin also enables Combo.

I still agree that it's not amazing, but I wouldn't be surprised if it sees play.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #243 on: August 10, 2015, 10:34:22 pm »
+1

Guys.

T1 Coin-Innervate-Darnassus Aspirant-Recombobulator

gg
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #244 on: August 10, 2015, 11:32:58 pm »
0

Guys.

T1 Coin-Innervate-Darnassus Aspirant-Recombobulator

gg

(...)-Recombobulator

gg
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #245 on: August 11, 2015, 10:32:22 am »
0

Guys.

T1 Coin-Innervate-Darnassus Aspirant-Recombobulator

gg

(...)-Recombobulator

gg
And Recombobulator has a new friend:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/22338-icehowl

Icehowl - Neutral Legendary Minion
9 mana 10/10
Charge
Can't attack heroes.

Aww man this doesn't even kill Ysera. Maybe works in an Aviana Ramp Druid Build? Note that silencing it also removes it's charge. Doesn't seem strong enough for constructed.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #246 on: August 11, 2015, 11:41:03 am »
+1

Icehowl is really cool though. I like it even if it's not strong. It's an interesting way to keep it from just being King Krush.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #247 on: August 11, 2015, 01:32:04 pm »
+2

Shamans getting some more love:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/55006-new-shaman-card-healing-wave

3 Mana Shaman Spell
Restore 7 Health
<win a Joust> Restore 14 instead

Shaman might want early game minions to survive though.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #248 on: August 11, 2015, 01:47:59 pm »
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That's got to be the best Joust card so far.  Shaman is one of the best classes at controlling without running cheap minions, because they have Earth Shock, Rockbiter, Stormforged Axe, Lightning Bolt, Crackle, Spirit Wolves, Lightning Storm, and Hex. 

It's interesting that Joust combos with Ancestral Call (what's the 4 mana alarmobot called again?) because both mechanics make you want to not run cheap minions.

Jank Arcane Intellect is also helpful for the archetype, I'm a bit interested.  (not as interested as I am in recombobulating Darnassus aspirant though)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #249 on: August 11, 2015, 01:57:34 pm »
0

Anyone else get the feeling that Blizzard is trying to reveal all the shitty cards first?  Though Healing Wave does seem pretty nice.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #250 on: August 11, 2015, 03:06:11 pm »
0

Anyone else get the feeling that Blizzard is trying to reveal all the shitty cards first?  Though Healing Wave does seem pretty nice.

I think they did that with GvG too. The more cards got released more good ones started popping up.

That Shaman card looks great. Heal 7 is already decent, not amazing but passable, and at heal 14 you just shut out lots of aggro decks. Like pops said, the crappy draw card seems ok in a deck with this just for the sake of card draw. What I find more interesting is that they also gave Shaman the Totem Golem and tuskar Totemic, which fit in a completely different deck. It's good I got gold Shaman, so i can try all these archtypes while also being snobbish.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #251 on: August 11, 2015, 03:31:50 pm »
0

If you are wise, they fit totally different decks.  I think part of their thinking with joust was that it could possibly be both competitive and RNGfun for different people.  In competitive uses (if it does get any, that is an "if") it will only show up in tight lists that are very careful about what minions are included.  In newbie and casual play, people will run the joust cards just to see if they can randomly get the bonuses.  So it's all, fun for everyone.

So from that angle they get double value from releasing Totem Golem and Healing Wave in the same set, good players will use each for different sets and bad players will use both in the same deck and still enjoy it (without paying way too much attention to how their winrate is slipping)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #252 on: August 11, 2015, 03:49:02 pm »
0

The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #253 on: August 11, 2015, 05:12:43 pm »
0

The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.

I dunno, I kinda want to throw down some Confuses while I have Stormwind Champion in play and just make all my minions ridiculous.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #254 on: August 11, 2015, 06:25:16 pm »
0

The main two joust cards that are good both are healing ones, which makes sense. I see why they would want to combine it with all kinds of other effects, but those seem to be the best paired since they are both control effects.

I dunno, I kinda want to throw down some Confuses while I have Stormwind Champion in play and just make all my minions ridiculous.
Uh, you quoted Zog's post but your post doesn't seem to be related? Joust is a nickname for the "reveal a minion" mechanic, not a nickname for the whole set.  Confuse does not have that mechanic.

Confuse does indeed emulate Power of the Wild in addition to its own natural effect if you use it with a Stormwind Champion out, but you'll probably get to pull off the effect much more frequently if you use a cheaper source of buffs to permanentify.  Like:
-Dire Wolf Alpha
-Murloc Warleader and Grimscale Oracle
-Abusive Sergeant
-Mana Addict
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #255 on: August 11, 2015, 07:04:15 pm »
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The name confuse is a weird choice for the effect. In most games, confuse is an effect that causes unintended actions to happen, not something that changes stats. For that name, something like "give all minions 50% chance to attack the wrong enemy" (same as the GvG ogre effect) would fit better I think.

It's not particularly consistent with previous appearances of that effect in Hearthstone, either, on Crazed Alchemist and Reversing Switch.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #256 on: August 11, 2015, 08:44:35 pm »
+1

The name confuse is a weird choice for the effect. In most games, confuse is an effect that causes unintended actions to happen, not something that changes stats. For that name, something like "give all minions 50% chance to attack the wrong enemy" (same as the GvG ogre effect) would fit better I think.

It's not particularly consistent with previous appearances of that effect in Hearthstone, either, on Crazed Alchemist and Reversing Switch.

But the card IS a bit confusing.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #257 on: August 12, 2015, 12:21:26 pm »
0

Anyone wanna make a testing gauntlet for brews with the new set? I can play the Patron Warrior
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #258 on: August 12, 2015, 01:32:32 pm »
0

Anyone wanna make a testing gauntlet for brews with the new set? I can play the Patron Warrior
That sounds cool, yeah.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #259 on: August 12, 2015, 02:03:04 pm »
0

I'd say Varian Wrynn probably helps Arena Warrior a smidge.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #260 on: August 12, 2015, 02:19:07 pm »
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I'd say Varian Wrynn probably helps Arena Warrior a smidge.

Agreed, but a very small smidge. I don't think a Legendary can ever help out a class in Arena much. You don't even see a Legendary every draft let alone a specific one.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #261 on: August 12, 2015, 02:37:53 pm »
+2

If you draft Varian Wrynn in Arena, you probably won't actually draw enough cards in your 0-3 run to actually see him in your hand.  #ArenaWarriorsMatter

(My post is on twitter now, that's how that works right?)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #262 on: August 12, 2015, 03:14:16 pm »
+2

Yes, I am firmly of the belief that Twitter is just anything with hashtags. #ArenaWarriorsMatter #DoesNotUnderstandTwitter
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #263 on: August 12, 2015, 03:21:23 pm »
0

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#22319:2;22331:1;22340:2;10:2;77:2;491:2;152:1;14440:1;214:2;270:2;676:2;12218:2;12241:2;12187:1;495:1;7742:1;22338:1;7731:2;503:1;

This is my current thinking for how Joust shaman could work.  It's either amazing or terrible. 

I noticed while drawing up the list that Frosthowl has increased the number of Ancestor's Call + Reincarnate targets from 2 (Sneed, Kel) to 3 (Sneed, Kel, Frosthowl).  This might make running the Reincarnate combo in the deck worthwhile.  Reincarnate is a little janky, but it's better than running Frost Shock because you've run out of nonminion cards you can use.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #264 on: August 12, 2015, 03:24:44 pm »
0

I think you'd have to run 5 minions, maybe you could get away with 4 though.  The deciding factor isn't so much the risk of drawing Ancestral Call without a minion to cheat out, it's the risk of having all minions in your deck in hand or play and losing a healing Joust with a value of zero.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #265 on: August 12, 2015, 07:50:27 pm »
0

I hope you like Unstable Portal and Bane of Doom, because Hunter is getting in on that RNG action too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3gqrrb/new_card_revealed_by_lifecoach_ram_wrangler/

Ram Wrangler
5 Mana Hunter Rare
3/3 Minion
Battlecry: if you have a Beast, summon a random Beast.

Another card whose Battlecry, when it takes effect,  ranges from bleh to just outright winning you the game. I think the requirement to have a Beast is tougher to meet than it looks once players understand the danger of leaving Beasts out, but this + Webspinner is a turn 6 play that can summon a Beast Legendary or Highmane. Or it summons Captain's Parrot or Timber Wolf or something. Why does Blizzard have to make more of these kinds of cards?

I think it makes more sense now why Ball of Spiders is 6 mana.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 07:52:17 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #266 on: August 12, 2015, 07:56:20 pm »
0

I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #267 on: August 12, 2015, 08:00:55 pm »
0

I don't think it can summon any uncollectible Beasts like you get from Animal Companion. That's always how these kinds of cards work in Hearthstone.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #268 on: August 12, 2015, 08:13:34 pm »
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I don't think it can summon any uncollectible Beasts like you get from Animal Companion. That's always how these kinds of cards work in Hearthstone.
Unless they say "ANY" in all caps, like the new Tuskar Totemic, who can summon 4 uncollectible totems.

The convention is a little unclear, but Blizz is literally making things up as they go along.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 08:15:52 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #269 on: August 12, 2015, 09:54:05 pm »
0

I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #270 on: August 12, 2015, 10:07:44 pm »
0

I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.

Does this fit in aggro Hunter though? I mean, it's a 5 mana card with the potential to do nothing if you have no beast in play. So really it's like a 7 mana card because you need to play a beast with it or run the risk that it's terrible. So it means Beast synergy decks will need to be a bit slow. Fits a little with the Lock and Load thing where they are pushing slower Hunter decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #271 on: August 13, 2015, 12:15:26 am »
+1

I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.
You're gonna have to explain to me how adding a requirement to Silver Hand Knight causes him to become constructed playable Silver Hand Knight isn't, currently.
And inconsistency generally makes cards less attractive, not more attractive.  You usually can't fully utilize the good outcomes and meet peril with the bad outcomes. 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 12:19:56 am by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #272 on: August 13, 2015, 12:30:16 pm »
0

I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.

Does this fit in aggro Hunter though? I mean, it's a 5 mana card with the potential to do nothing if you have no beast in play. So really it's like a 7 mana card because you need to play a beast with it or run the risk that it's terrible. So it means Beast synergy decks will need to be a bit slow. Fits a little with the Lock and Load thing where they are pushing slower Hunter decks.

I don't see this as a Face Hunter card, more of a Midrange Hunter card. Hunters run enough beasts that it shouldn't be too hard to activate this, and it's really only a 5/6 mana card if you run Webspinners (which you probably will if you're running with this card). I imagine it will be a deck that looks something like this:
Webspinners, Haunted Creepers, Owls, Animal Companions, UtH, Highmanes (all beast cards that are run now anyways) and then Ram Wranglers, Houndmasters, Kill Commands (cards that rely on Beast synergy) + 12 cards that fit that curve.

It's not unheard of to run other beasts too (Stranglethorns spring to mind, but they awkwardly sit in the same mana slot as this card, might still be okay to play this on turn 6 though if you don't have a Highmane). I think this is at least strong enough that it could squeeze out some of the Midrange Hunter cards currently run. I'm going to be playing around with it from day 1. I play a lot of Midrange Hunter and I see a place for this in my deck anyways.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #273 on: August 13, 2015, 12:59:37 pm »
0

I would have been okay with this card if it had higher stats and placed a random Beast card into your hand ala Webspinner. As it stands, the ability to summon Huffer/King Krush/Highmane seems silly.

idk if constructed Hunter decks can justify running this over something with consistency - you need at least 3/3 to justify this over Silver Hand Knight (ignoring Beast synergy). Still, the extra board might be worth it, and the "lol I win" potential is tempting.

I think it's good enough for arena and will introduce a new category of Trolden videos.

The average stats for what you'll summon (only counting currently known collectible beasts) is 3.35/3.76. So I think it's pretty playable in Constructed. Plus you might get some positive effect that you wouldn't get from the raw stats of a Silver Hand Knight. Plus there's the outright win possibility. I think people who understand that will run it and just QQ when they get a Parrot, but take their wins and still run it.
You're gonna have to explain to me how adding a requirement to Silver Hand Knight causes him to become constructed playable Silver Hand Knight isn't, currently.
And inconsistency generally makes cards less attractive, not more attractive.  You usually can't fully utilize the good outcomes and meet peril with the bad outcomes.

Because Silver Hand Knight never causes you to instantly win the game in an unfair manner. With Ram Wrangler you go in expecting the average (which you're still quite happy with) and sometimes you just get a free win because you dropped King Krush, Malorne or Gahzrilla. People run Unstable Portal and Bane of Doom for roughly the same reason, a gamble in which you can win outright plus a worst case scenario that isn't going to ruin your chances. Most of the time it's just an average card, but occasionally you just get something so good that you win outright. (I honestly don't think it's great design, but this card is strong, is all I'm saying.)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #274 on: August 13, 2015, 01:27:11 pm »
+1

I don't really regard any of those except King Krush as unfair.  The card's not reliable until turn 6, so you're getting Malorne or Gahzrilla one turn early.  Fabulous, they were overcosted by about 1 turn!  And I'm pretty sure you're "counting them twice" when you insist they pull up the stat mean to an acceptable risk level and simulatenously provide the upside that makes the risk attractive
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #275 on: August 13, 2015, 01:36:04 pm »
0

I see what you mean about my "counting them twice", but what do you say to my comparison of this card to Bane of Doom/Unstable Portal? If you think those cards are weak in Constructed then it's clear we just disagree on what's good.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #276 on: August 13, 2015, 01:41:45 pm »
+1

Unstable Portal has a much better mean.

Bane of Doom is actually really comparable, deal 2 damage is roughly a 3/3, a random demon is roughly a random beast.  But Bane of Doom doesn't require you to control a demon.  That's a big difference.  If you take the condition off the card and nerf it to 2/2 I'm instacrafting 2 of them, but I have played a lot of midhunter and fizzled a lot of Houndmasters.

Having no creatures alive is also a condition that inherently makes you crave RNG.  If you are able to stick minions on board, you are probably winning.  If you are winning, you want less RNG.  Being able to hold onto a Webspinner until turn 6 without feeling obligated to use it for some board impact is another soft indication that perhaps you are winning already.  (actually, in Midhunter, drawing webspinner at all is a soft indication that perhaps you are winning already, which contributes to Scavenging Hyena being not good enough for Midhunter in many cases).
Your opponent having a creature on board with 2 or less health is an indication you are probably losing, so that's a scenario you are more likely to crave RNG. 

Bane of Doom offers  you the ability to say "I have Knife Juggler and Imp Gang Boss in my hand, but I'm losing so badly that that's not good enough.   I'm going to RNG cast Bane of Doom instead."  Ram Wrangler rarely offers up the scenario "I have Ram Wrangler and Sludge Belcher in hand, and I have a Webspinner in play that my opponent left alive but I am somehow still losing, badly enough that the Sludge Belcher just isn't good enough.  I am going to go for the RNG and cast Ram Wrangler instead".  It might occasionally, if your opponent wiped -almost- all of your board and then dropped some really, really good threats.  But not often.

A lot of people who use Bane of Doom probably don't even consider that thought process or have to, since removal spells are usually the cards you look at when you're looking anyway.  The "take risks from behind" aspect is baked right into the card.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 02:06:53 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #277 on: August 13, 2015, 02:05:38 pm »
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Hmmm, you're right in that it might be hard to get this to hit reliably. I only run 1 Houndmaster because I hate having to try and make a second one hit in games where I draw both.

If I had trouble getting this to hit I might start running stealth Beasts. It would look a little different from the current midrange Hunter decks, but I think it's worth it for the value this card provides.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #278 on: August 13, 2015, 02:11:21 pm »
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Hmmm, you're right in that it might be hard to get this to hit reliably. I only run 1 Houndmaster because I hate having to try and make a second one hit in games where I draw both.

If I had trouble getting this to hit I might start running stealth Beasts. It would look a little different from the current midrange Hunter decks, but I think it's worth it for the value this card provides.

Well, if it's a combo deck, that's another thing entirely.  Silver Hand Knight doesn't belong in a combo deck, but a contingent win condition (albeit a random one) does make sense in that context. 
Being able to run 2 Houndmasters very comfortably would be another benefit to stealth beast deck.  You also have great synergy with Explosive Trap (and maybe misdireciton?) to look at.  I buy that a lot more than a tweak to midhunter as it currently exists.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #279 on: August 13, 2015, 02:15:28 pm »
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Then again, I hear 1x Stranglethorn has been getting some love lately in midhunter, probably because of it's great matchup against Sludge Belcher.  Even just having two of those in your deck helps Ram a good bit, having a Tiger on board is less of an indication that you must be winning since your opponent is forbidden by game rules to trade pieces with it.

Maybe if you go 2 Stranglethorns, 1 Ram, 2 Houndmaster, 1 Panther, you get something pretty similar to midhunter that makes Ram good.

On yet another hand, playing two Jungle Panthers while insisting that your opponent run their board into your Explosive Trap before you unstealth anything is hilarious and very fun.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 02:17:02 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #280 on: August 13, 2015, 02:29:30 pm »
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Hmmm, you're right in that it might be hard to get this to hit reliably. I only run 1 Houndmaster because I hate having to try and make a second one hit in games where I draw both.

If I had trouble getting this to hit I might start running stealth Beasts. It would look a little different from the current midrange Hunter decks, but I think it's worth it for the value this card provides.

Well, if it's a combo deck, that's another thing entirely.  Silver Hand Knight doesn't belong in a combo deck, but a contingent win condition (albeit a random one) does make sense in that context. 
Being able to run 2 Houndmasters very comfortably would be another benefit to stealth beast deck.  You also have great synergy with Explosive Trap (and maybe misdireciton?) to look at.  I buy that a lot more than a tweak to midhunter as it currently exists.

Yeah, that seems pretty reliable. Then you are still running Mad Scientists to dig for Explosives. Snake Trap might work here too. As it's usually hard to attack into a minion and then remove three more after you've done that.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #281 on: August 13, 2015, 02:49:52 pm »
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I'm running Midrange Hunter with 2 Houndmaster, 1 Shredder, Loatheb, 2 Highmane and Dr. Boom.  Loatheb is a great body, so I can definitely see the attraction of Stranglethorn Tiger, competing with Shredder for a sub spot.  The question is what you can cut: Hunter's Mark, Quickshot and Unleash are probably the candidates, but they can all be really useful too.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #282 on: August 13, 2015, 03:19:27 pm »
+1

I only get to see Midrange hunter when I'm slaughtering it as Patron Warrior lately.  From that perspective I've been a bit unimpressed by Unleash.
Ball's always totally in my court, when I get the hunter down to 1 or two cards left in hand, I deploy exactly as many minions as I can to be at 1 life from a hypothetical unleash.  In the event the midhunter did well enough all game that I can't afford to play around Unleash, I dump my hand instead, so that's sort of best of both worlds  Restricting its board control power to that of Drain Life and also customizing how big of a Sinister Strike it is based on my needs makes it really really close to a dead card against me, and sucking away the opportunity to bounce Quick Shot by making Unleash so inefficient is almost like blanking two cards (the unleash, plus the card that might have been drawn off of Quick Shot, not to be confused with an implication that a Quick Shot that didn't bounce is a blank card, way far from that).

But I know there are probably matchups where it is better, like Paladin.  Depends.


Tiger itself is definitely way scarier for Patron Warrior.  Best case scenario is I force it to attack a ghoul, then burn half my Executes finishing it off, lots of outcomes worse than that.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 03:25:58 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #283 on: August 13, 2015, 04:16:09 pm »
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I've committed to Midrange Hunter for a while for some tryhard laddering, but Patron is my second favourite thing to play.  I'm surprised at how much variation there still is in the deck, even though a lot of the choices are standardising now.  I've been running this list.  Shield Block replacing Dread Corsair was a revelation to me.  Patron's problem is dying before you get the combo off, so 5 armour and a card is just a ridiculously good fit.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #284 on: August 13, 2015, 04:17:51 pm »
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Woah Drain Life really is 3 mana! I thought it was 2 mana like Demonfire. I thought this because I was comparing Demonfire on Mistress of Pain to Drain Life, thinking that Drain Life couldn't be so bad to not compare favourably to Demonfire in that instance.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #285 on: August 13, 2015, 04:57:14 pm »
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I like drain life, I can tell how quickly a newbie is catching on by how quickly they independently decide they want to cut Drain Life for another basic card.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #286 on: August 13, 2015, 06:59:20 pm »
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I like drain life, I can tell how quickly a newbie is catching on by how quickly they independently decide they want to cut Drain Life for another basic card.

I think Corruption is a better candidate for this. 1 mana hard removal? It has to be good! And then you play it, and realize, wow, no.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #287 on: August 14, 2015, 02:08:58 pm »
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Ben Brode embarrassing Frodan by having him play new cards on stream now.  Full set to be posted later.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #288 on: August 14, 2015, 02:46:05 pm »
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Sooooo many new cards (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3gzxkr/all_of_todays_new_cards/)

Quote
Elemental Destruction: 3 mana epic shaman spell, deal 4-5 damage to all minions. overload (5)
Bolf Ramshield: 6 mana 3/9 legendary neutral minion, whenever your hero takes damage, this minion takes it instead
Buccaneer: 1 mana 2/1 common rogue pirate minion, whenever you equip a weapon, give it +1 attack
Shady Dealer: 3 mana 4/3 rare rogue minion, battlecry: if you have a pirate, gain +1/+1
The Mistcaller: 6 mana 4/4 legendary shaman minion, battlecry: give all minions in your hand and deck +1/+1
Tournament Attendee: 1 mana 2/1 common neutral minion, taunt
Twilight Guardian: 4 mana 2/6 epic neutral dragon minion, battlecry: if you're holding a dragon, gain +1 attack and taunt
Boneguard Lieutenant: 2 mana 3/2 common neutral, inspire: gain +1 health
Sparring Partner: 2 mana 3/2 rare warrior minion, taunt. battlecry: give a minion taunt
Chillmaw: 7 mana 6/6 legendary neutral dragon minion, taunt. deathrattle: if you're holding a dragon, deal 3 damage to all minions.
Kvaldir Raider: 5 mana 4/4 common neutral minion, inspire: gain +2/+2
Shadowfiend: 3 mana 3/3 epic priest minion, whenever you draw a card, reduce its cost by (1)
Spawn of Shadows: 4 mana 5/4 rare priest minion, inspire: deal 4 damage to each hero
Arcane Blast: 1 mana epic mage spell, deal 2 damage to a minion. this spell gets double bonus from spell damage
Dalaran Aspirant: 4 mana 3/5 common mage minion, inspire: gain spell damage +1
Knight of the Wild: 7 mana 6/6 rare druid minion, whenever you summon a beast, reduce the cost of this card by 1
Wildwalker: 4 mana 4/4 common druid minion, battlecry: give a friendly beast +3 health
Murloc Knight: 4 mana 3/4 common paladin murloc minion, inspire: summon a random murloc
Competitive Spirit: 1 mana rare paladin spell, secret: when your turn starts, give your minions +1/+1
Bear Trap: 2 mana common hunter spell, secret: after your hero is attacked, summon a 3/3 bear with taunt
Stablemaster: 3 mana 4/2 epic hunter minion, battlecry: give a friendly beast immune this turn
Saboteur: 3 mana 4/3 rare neutral minion, battlecry: your opponent's hero power costs (5) more next turn
Recruiter: 5 mana 5/4 epic neutral minion, inspire: add a 2/2 squire to your hand.
Confessor Paletress: 7 mana 5/4 legendary priest minion, inspire: summon a random legendary minon

Links to card images at the source.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #289 on: August 14, 2015, 02:58:35 pm »
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Small note about this card:

Competitive Spirit: 1 mana rare paladin spell, secret: when your turn starts, give your minions +1/+1

It was clarified on stream that this won't activate if you have no minions on the board.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #290 on: August 14, 2015, 03:13:33 pm »
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They released all the cards on Facebook it seems.

https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.943363625706406.1073741875.498467596862680&type=3

To answer the most important question:
Did they release a vanilla 5/6 neutral?
Yes.

Also, there's a reverse Core Hound: 7 mana 5/9 neutral Beast.

Edit: Okay, it's missing the Hunter legendaries. Yeah apparently Hunter will get 2 legendaries.

Edit: What the!? The released a strictly better Booty Bay Bodyguard (4 mana 5/4 neutral with taunt called Evil Heckler) and a strictly better Magma Rager (3 mana 5/2 neutral called Ice Rager). Power creep officially confirmed! But not really because this is just their answer to the suggestions to buff old cards and those old cards happen to be soulbound.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 03:40:18 pm by markusin »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #291 on: August 14, 2015, 03:57:50 pm »
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Wow, the Priest legendary looks pretty nuts. Inspire driven auto sneeds.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #292 on: August 14, 2015, 04:11:15 pm »
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Elemental Destruction is way exciting for Ancestor's Call Joust Shaman.

I think the 3/5 that restores 4 health to each hero might be deceptively high impact.  It likely replaces Sludge Belcher for "best neutral facehunter hoser that isn't abysmal in other matchups" (er, that is, most impactful against the face hunter.  Sludge Belcher is a better card in general.  But you can run both).

Set seems really midrangey overall.  We got lots of cheap minions that make outright faceracing less attractive, like Flame Juggler and a lot of cards like it, but we really didn't get many true buffs for control, I don't think.


Priest legendary is worse than Sneed's, btw, the legend isn't hidden inside.  Board clear is more powerful against the Priest legend.  Sneed's isn't good enough for priest control so I don't think the priest legend is good enough either.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 04:13:54 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #293 on: August 14, 2015, 04:53:36 pm »
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Buffing beast Druid, I see.  Definitely needs it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #294 on: August 14, 2015, 04:57:53 pm »
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So what are they going to do with Magma Rager and BBBG?  Give them some bullshit other thing or whatever?  I'm still waiting for Dr. Boom to be nerfed.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #295 on: August 14, 2015, 05:39:35 pm »
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So what are they going to do with Magma Rager and BBBG?  Give them some bullshit other thing or whatever?  I'm still waiting for Dr. Boom to be nerfed.
I think they're just going to allow themselves to make strictly better versions of soulbound cards in the future to prove to everyone that Hearthstone is P2W :P

Yeah that 3/5 restore 4 health card is quite nice considering that silence doesn't stop its effect.

I'd say the strangest card in the set is the 6 mana 6/5 whose Battlecry copies the opponent's hero power. I assume this means that your hero power gets replaced by the one your opponent currently has. As far a tech cards go, this is a really weird one. Against Justicar/Shadowform/Charged Hammer you get a good hero power. Otherwise you get something that may or may not be beneficial. A Warrior with the Warlock hero power? A Priest with the Mage hero power? Who knows what'll happen.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #296 on: August 14, 2015, 05:52:14 pm »
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I see no problem is ice rager and the BBBG upgrade. They're common and won't see play anyway.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #297 on: August 14, 2015, 06:06:42 pm »
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Ice Rager seems like an unwise move.  Good players may know that commons aren't really a barrier at all in the big picture, but new players are going to feel pissed when they drop Magma Rager turn 3 and their opponent drops Ice Rager turn 3 and they don't own Ice Rager.  And there is no downside to simply buffing the basics instead.

Buffing the basics instead would also greatly improve arena..


Copying your opponent's hero power seems really good for Warrior.  I think the 6/5 is probably an auto 1-of for control warrior.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #298 on: August 14, 2015, 06:12:33 pm »
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Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card".  Last time I checked, BBBG sees quite a lot of play, even in Arena.  There's nothing wrong with BBBG.

I think these two cards are just going to ruin the entire expansion for me.  Because of those two cards, I will never give Blizzard my money, at least for Hearthstone.

EDIT: Or maybe it's just the designer's weird attitude of seeming to be legitimately passionate about certain things ("look at this cool card!") and then not giving a single shit about other things that a lot of players care about (Arena balancing, power creep).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:17:13 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #299 on: August 14, 2015, 06:27:54 pm »
+1

Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card".  Last time I checked, BBBG sees quite a lot of play, even in Arena.  There's nothing wrong with BBBG.

I think these two cards are just going to ruin the entire expansion for me.  Because of those two cards, I will never give Blizzard my money, at least for Hearthstone.

EDIT: Or maybe it's just the designer's weird attitude of seeming to be legitimately passionate about certain things ("look at this cool card!") and then not giving a single shit about other things that a lot of players care about (Arena balancing, power creep).

Saying that BBBG saw some play is pretty misleading. It does get put into decks, but only in Arena and only reluctantly when you were desperate for a Taunt and you are choosing between BBBG and two other terrible cards. Every card can be played in Arena given a terrible enough set of choices (except maybe Magma Rager). No one who played constructed would play it over Sludge (or Senjin or Sunwalker).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #300 on: August 14, 2015, 06:54:26 pm »
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I'm still waiting for Dr. Boom to be nerfed.

Dr. Boom isn't that good. If you're paying 7 mana for something that dies to 1-mana removal, you need to get enough value for those 6 mana out of the minion's immediate effect and the fact that your opponent might draw the removal too early or too late, otherwise the card just sucks. Dr. Boom just does this competently, nothing more. It doesn't even compare all that favorably with Savannah Highmane.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:58:25 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #301 on: August 14, 2015, 07:35:58 pm »
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Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card".  Last time I checked, BBBG sees quite a lot of play, even in Arena.  There's nothing wrong with BBBG.

I think these two cards are just going to ruin the entire expansion for me.  Because of those two cards, I will never give Blizzard my money, at least for Hearthstone.

EDIT: Or maybe it's just the designer's weird attitude of seeming to be legitimately passionate about certain things ("look at this cool card!") and then not giving a single shit about other things that a lot of players care about (Arena balancing, power creep).

Saying that BBBG saw some play is pretty misleading. It does get put into decks, but only in Arena and only reluctantly when you were desperate for a Taunt and you are choosing between BBBG and two other terrible cards. Every card can be played in Arena given a terrible enough set of choices (except maybe Magma Rager). No one who played constructed would play it over Sludge (or Senjin or Sunwalker).

Well okay.  I'm not exactly the most seasoned player.  But still, it seems they're far more willing to nerf cards than buff them.  Ice Rager and the necro taunt guy could have been completely different cards if they just buffed Magma Rager and BBBG.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #302 on: August 14, 2015, 08:07:22 pm »
+1

The hate for the BBBG/Magma Rager upgrades was really startling to me. I mean, those are two of the worst cards in the game... and the replacements are at common. It's not like evil Blizzard put them at purple to make you open 50 packs to get a playset.

In fact, one of the things I noticed about the set is the high power level and playability of the commons. Especially at the high end of the mana curve (a 5/9 for 7, the 9/7 Fire Elemental at 9) but at the low end too, there's plenty of cards I wouldn't be embarrassed to put into a deck if I had to make one with only a couple hundred dust.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #303 on: August 14, 2015, 08:29:41 pm »
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Sometimes it's the principle of the thing rather than a matter of degree.  I think Ice Rager could cost 10 dust to craft and people would view it as an issue.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #304 on: August 14, 2015, 09:16:52 pm »
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The hate for the BBBG/Magma Rager upgrades was really startling to me. I mean, those are two of the worst cards in the game... and the replacements are at common. It's not like evil Blizzard put them at purple to make you open 50 packs to get a playset.

In fact, one of the things I noticed about the set is the high power level and playability of the commons. Especially at the high end of the mana curve (a 5/9 for 7, the 9/7 Fire Elemental at 9) but at the low end too, there's plenty of cards I wouldn't be embarrassed to put into a deck if I had to make one with only a couple hundred dust.

The problem is not that they're fixing the cards - it's that they're adding new cards as replacements, rather than buffing the existing cards.  Which, as a completely virtual game, is totally possible.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 09:18:15 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #305 on: August 14, 2015, 10:17:13 pm »
0

Also, isn't Evil Heckler strictly better than Lost Tallstrider, too?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #306 on: August 14, 2015, 10:37:05 pm »
+1

Also, isn't Evil Heckler strictly better than Lost Tallstrider, too?
Only if you think Knife Juggler is strictly better than Bloodfen Raptor.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #307 on: August 14, 2015, 11:50:26 pm »
+1

Lost Tall Strider is a beast.  There's no 4 mana way to get out a 4/3 and also make Evil Heckler 7/6, so he's not strictly better.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #308 on: August 15, 2015, 01:50:50 pm »
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Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card". 

That is actually true.
Powercreep is when the benchmark for comparing cards gets completely changed. Like, if 3/4 for 2 are now suddenly common and can even have upsides. That is not happening.


You are acting like they are some super greedy bastards that try to sap the money with these ridiculous, you-have-to-pay-or-lodr changes. Blizz is actually doing an awesome job of not being greedy, IMHO. (At least with HS).
For example, if I did have some spare cash, I wouldn't mind spening it on HS. I do not however, and I still have most of the decks I want.



Dr. Boom doesn't need nerf and won't get it. And I am sad cause I have 2 booms but whatchagonnado.
Patron, however. I wouldn't be unhappy or surprised if he gets axe'd (some part of that deck, like Warsong for example).



As for cards, I am again going to wait until the meta stabilizes to build stuff, but my favourite cards so far are
Varyan and Justicar. Justicar just cause it seems so awesome and fun, and Varyan as Control Warrior is by far my favourite deck to play, and Varyan seems like a great add-on.

Edit: Also the guy who puts all secrets in play nad the Murloc Knight.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 01:52:26 pm by Grujah »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #309 on: August 15, 2015, 02:19:02 pm »
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I'm with Grujah on this one. I'm super excited. I don't have a ton of spare cash either, but I'm in no way feeling like the release of these cards is going to greatly impact my ability to throughly enjoy the game because of it. Further, my favorite play style (Arena), looks to be getting more and more intriguing. Yes, good cards will still be good cards - and vice versa. But I don't always get to choose the best cards out there. They're not offered every time after all. The cards in this expansion look like a lot of fun (to me anyway). It'll be interesting to see which ones make the biggest impact on games, and exactly how they go about it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #310 on: August 15, 2015, 02:32:59 pm »
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I have about 750 gold and 2000 dust saved up so far.. plan getting about 700 gold more till 24th, and than I'll play arena most of the time - to grind back and to wait for meta to settle a bit.

Unfortunately people whined too much about not being to get classic packs in arena, and it seems like now you will be getting random ones instead of TGT exclusively in arena, which sucks a bit. :s
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #311 on: August 15, 2015, 02:37:13 pm »
0

Most likely brand new archetypes I think the Tournament might bring, in order (not improvements.  Which is a little subjective, but I'd say mechmage was a new archetype but throwing a couple mechs into force-roar druid was popular but not new)

1. Control Shaman
2. Ancestral Call Shaman (i'm probably way too optimistic but <3)
3. Aggro Shaman (any shaman counts as new because it's like a tier 4 deck on ladder atm)
4. Secrets/Spell Mage (something aggro or midrange that doesn't run Goblin Blastmage)(I think some people play that anyway and it's not that bad right now because annoyotron bites patrons dust and stuff so maybe it doesn't count)
5. Secret masscast Paladin
6. Control Druid

New archetypes I am rather skeptical about, in no particular order.
Any inspire-matters. (one or two inspire cards might show up on their own merits, but trying to get two inspire dudes out the hero power for double the inspire triggers or running coliseum manager and inspire together, I don't believe in it)
Any murloc.
Any beast druid.
Any dragon deck.
Any joust deck but Shaman (I'm grateful Warlock doesn't have access to a decent joust card after all)
Rogue managing to get away from Tinker oil spam.
Taunt Warrior.
Control Hunter
Spell damage minions matter deck. (can we revert Dalaran Mage's nerf so he's not worse than Ice Rager?)
Pirates
Discard matters.
Whether or not you are a totem matters.


So I guess I see certain conceptual archetype having a good chance to improve viability, but don't believe in most of the mechanics, having the least skepticism about Shaman's joust card, the secret masscast guy, and the new direction for mage suggested by spellshaper, Effigy, and new neutrals for mage that can be good without having to be mechs.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #312 on: August 15, 2015, 02:44:00 pm »
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I actually think Ancestral Shaman is likely to work. It got two awesome cards in that new boardclear and also that heal that is going to win jousts most of the time if you only play Malygos and few other minions.

Backlight Rogue could get a comeback if that card that spawns 4/4s when drawn proves to be less slow that it appears to be.

Tempomage is basically Spellmage and it is played here and there.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 02:47:51 pm by Grujah »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #313 on: August 15, 2015, 04:10:02 pm »
0

Question: Is there going to be a must-have legendary (a-la boom)?  I have a golden Gazrilla and I'm thinking of turning it into Sylvanas.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #314 on: August 15, 2015, 10:15:08 pm »
0

Question: Is there going to be a must-have legendary (a-la boom)?  I have a golden Gazrilla and I'm thinking of turning it into Sylvanas.
Maybe Eydis Darkbane.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #315 on: August 16, 2015, 12:10:01 am »
0

Apparently, a reddit survey of 1,000 players (just volunteers, presumably) had a 2/3rds consesus rating Varian Wrynn as the best card in the whole set.  I find that odd, since I'm not very optimistic about him at all.  He seems like Ysera for 1 more mana:  a card that doesn't keep you alive the turn you play it, but will do a good job keeping your hand full for the rest of the game.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #316 on: August 16, 2015, 05:28:59 am »
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Apparently, a reddit survey of 1,000 players (just volunteers, presumably) had a 2/3rds consesus rating Varian Wrynn as the best card in the whole set.  I find that odd, since I'm not very optimistic about him at all.  He seems like Ysera for 1 more mana:  a card that doesn't keep you alive the turn you play it, but will do a good job keeping your hand full for the rest of the game.

Well, Varian has a number of advantages over Ysera. And I would totally run two Yseras in Warrior control if I could.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #317 on: August 16, 2015, 06:07:07 am »
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I voted Varian 10, ceiling for his effect is ridiculously overpowered,  and if he "only" draws 3 cards he is still awesome.
And in warrior you really do have a lot of opportunity to cast a big minion that just draws cards (ala Ysera) as you have a lot of hp buffer.

Out of neutral ones, Chillmaw might be a good control card, and I want Justiciar to be awesome but I think it won't. Maybe Saarad is going to be played.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 06:09:50 am by Grujah »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #318 on: August 16, 2015, 08:03:48 am »
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My favourite thing about TGT so far is that while it's really pushing Control Hunter, Mages got Summon Huffer.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #319 on: August 16, 2015, 09:06:24 am »
0

Apparently, a reddit survey of 1,000 players (just volunteers, presumably) had a 2/3rds consesus rating Varian Wrynn as the best card in the whole set.  I find that odd, since I'm not very optimistic about him at all.  He seems like Ysera for 1 more mana:  a card that doesn't keep you alive the turn you play it, but will do a good job keeping your hand full for the rest of the game.

Varian can put out Taunts, which goes with the Taunt theme they are pushing. Minion based Taunt warrior.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #320 on: August 16, 2015, 12:31:06 pm »
+1

Here's what I want to know: can Faceless Manipulator/Dreadsteed remove a Patron Warrior's board within a single turn?  That is, within the time limit?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #321 on: August 16, 2015, 12:36:42 pm »
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Probably not if you're spawning them infinitely many Patrons.

EDIT: nonsense.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 01:10:46 pm by qmech »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #322 on: August 16, 2015, 01:05:44 pm »
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My favourite thing about TGT so far is that while it's really pushing Control Hunter, Mages got Summon Huffer.

It's actually even stronger than that. Polymorph: Boar is amazing when you just want face damage, but it's a polymorph if you need it to be too. This is an aggro card that can do 4 damage face and leave a threat on the board or bypass a Sludge Belcher. I think we'll see most aggro mage decks adopt this card.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #323 on: August 16, 2015, 01:07:54 pm »
+1

Probably not if you're spawning them infinitely many Patrons.

No, see, you fill their board with Patrons, then reduce them all to 1 Health each, then take them out one at a time.  Then kill the Warsong Commander.  I'm just wondering if it's possible to do all of that within the turn time limit.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #324 on: August 16, 2015, 01:10:04 pm »
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Probably not if you're spawning them infinitely many Patrons.

No, see, you fill their board with Patrons, then reduce them all to 1 Health each, then take them out one at a time.  Then kill the Warsong Commander.  I'm just wondering if it's possible to do all of that within the turn time limit.

Thank you.  I just heard Trump mention this interaction 5 minutes after replying, and I couldn't figure it out.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #325 on: August 16, 2015, 01:19:39 pm »
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Probably not if you're spawning them infinitely many Patrons.

No, see, you fill their board with Patrons, then reduce them all to 1 Health each, then take them out one at a time.  Then kill the Warsong Commander.  I'm just wondering if it's possible to do all of that within the turn time limit.

Thank you.  I just heard Trump mention this interaction 5 minutes after replying, and I couldn't figure it out.

Of course, a Flamestrike would be much simpler, but this does give Warlock some options.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #326 on: August 16, 2015, 03:51:11 pm »
+1

Of course, a Flamestrike would be much simpler, but this does give Warlock some options.
But...but... Hellfire....
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #327 on: August 16, 2015, 04:48:57 pm »
+1

There's no way to do it in the time limit if the Dreadsteed animation is the same as Sludge Belcher.  We need animation reform.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #328 on: August 16, 2015, 04:54:04 pm »
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There's no way to do it in the time limit if the Dreadsteed animation is the same as Sludge Belcher.  We need animation reform.

Unless you use a speedhack.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #329 on: August 17, 2015, 10:31:24 am »
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My favourite thing about TGT so far is that while it's really pushing Control Hunter, Mages got Summon Huffer.

It's actually even stronger than that. Polymorph: Boar is amazing when you just want face damage, but it's a polymorph if you need it to be too. This is an aggro card that can do 4 damage face and leave a threat on the board or bypass a Sludge Belcher. I think we'll see most aggro mage decks adopt this card.

Polymorph boar is so awesome. Can push for those last four damage, can turn your mirror image into a huffer, and can tame their rags, Highmanes and other high level threats. I always like those versatile little tricks, it's like Pongify / Rapid Hybridization in MTG.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #330 on: August 17, 2015, 11:13:22 am »
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Boar Polymorph is an interesting card.  Seems balanced.  I'm worried it's too balanced, but we'll see.

It seems stronger in FaceMage, currently a dead archetype, than in normal mage.  Normal mage is interested in trading, where Polymorph boar is a weak Hex or expensive Hand of Might.  But it can be either one, and that's what makes it cool.  In FaceMage it's all gravy though because you can just wreck your own board state for 80% of a kill command, and that's what a face deck is interested in doing.  And it also offers the ability to silence a taunt in a way that doesn't really improve board state but offers great damage potential, Boaring Sludge Belcher, going face. 
Maybe Facemage can make a comeback, though admittedly i'm not sure I noticed anything else that helps as much as the boar. 
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #331 on: August 17, 2015, 01:36:14 pm »
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I will like the card even if it turns out to be shit. It's so fun.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #332 on: August 17, 2015, 05:42:52 pm »
0

What do you guys think about Coliseum Manager and Brave Hunter in Face Hunter?

I think Brave Hunter just doesn't cut it, Quickshot is always a lot harder to bounce in practice than it is on paper, and Darkbomb is a better base card than Murloc Raider is.

Coliseum Manager seems like it might be worthy of the deck though.  If it's in hand it offers 2 more damage of reach against an opponent that taunted up, but just playing it as a turn 2 play is not bad at all.  2/3 might not seem aggressive for facehunter, but they run 2xglaivezooka and 2x Sarge, so 3 health is a nice way to secure a place to throw buffs.

It's definitely not as exciting and full of potential as, say if we had gotten a 3rd and 4th leper gnome, but face hunter is such a lean streamlined strategy that any improvement seems a bit scary.  And facehunter will probably be good during experimentation season even if it gets no improvements at all since it punishes messy curves and greedy plays.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #333 on: August 17, 2015, 06:04:46 pm »
+1

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #334 on: August 17, 2015, 07:21:22 pm »
0

What do you guys think about Coliseum Manager and Brave Hunter in Face Hunter?

I think Brave Hunter just doesn't cut it, Quickshot is always a lot harder to bounce in practice than it is on paper, and Darkbomb is a better base card than Murloc Raider is.

Coliseum Manager seems like it might be worthy of the deck though.  If it's in hand it offers 2 more damage of reach against an opponent that taunted up, but just playing it as a turn 2 play is not bad at all.  2/3 might not seem aggressive for facehunter, but they run 2xglaivezooka and 2x Sarge, so 3 health is a nice way to secure a place to throw buffs.

It's definitely not as exciting and full of potential as, say if we had gotten a 3rd and 4th leper gnome, but face hunter is such a lean streamlined strategy that any improvement seems a bit scary.  And facehunter will probably be good during experimentation season even if it gets no improvements at all since it punishes messy curves and greedy plays.
Yeah I don't see Brave Hunter doing much for Hunter. It has the double Doomguard effect where it anti-synergizes with Quickshot to some extent. You might get it from Lock and Load though, so be prepared to see it from time to time.

Coliseum Manager...I think you mean Garrison Commander, the 2/3 that lets you use your hero power twice. Coliseum Manager is the 3 mana 2/5 that returns to your hand when inspired. It's hard to say whether or not Garrison Commander will make it in Hunter decks, but it lets midrange Hunter hold onto cards for longer. It's good later on because you have the mana to hero power twice and it kinda has soft taunt at that point because your opponent won't be able to stand up to double-hero-power for very long. Early on it's a 2/3, which may give you a slight control edge against decks with 2/1s and mini-bots.

I'd say the dream is comboing Commander with Brave Archer. It seems to me the whole nothing-in-your-hand mechanic never means much because most Hunter decks play like one or two efficient cards per turn and wait until the end to unload everything. Garrison+Archer+2xhp is 8 damage for 7 mana if you have no cards in hand though. That's not bad. Maybe Brave archer is not worth including on it's own, but if you have Garrison Commander anyway you can make use of it if you get it from Lock and Load.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #335 on: August 17, 2015, 11:19:11 pm »
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Well the dream is turn 8 Garrison Commander Brave Hunter Brave Hunter Hero Power Hero Power, 8 mana, 12 damage, like a double fireball.
Unfortunately you have to work your way down to those 3 cards in hand and topdeck hunter's mark turn 8 and play it on nothing to do it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #336 on: August 17, 2015, 11:29:39 pm »
0

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #337 on: August 17, 2015, 11:51:23 pm »
0

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #338 on: August 18, 2015, 01:45:29 am »
0

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.

What do you think is the likelihood that free GT packs will be handed out in the first few days, like with GvG?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #339 on: August 18, 2015, 02:24:46 am »
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New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.

What do you think is the likelihood that free GT packs will be handed out in the first few days, like with GvG?

I would be surprised.  The first wing of Naxx was free, but they didn't repeat it with Blackrock.  It seems like with the brawl they have enough hype going already.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #340 on: August 18, 2015, 08:00:28 am »
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New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.

What do you think is the likelihood that free GT packs will be handed out in the first few days, like with GvG?

I would be surprised.  The first wing of Naxx was free, but they didn't repeat it with Blackrock.  It seems like with the brawl they have enough hype going already.

I'm not sure why they wouldn't. It encourages new players to join right when the expansion comes out, where as the brawl you can't play till you have a level 20 hero.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #341 on: August 18, 2015, 07:18:47 pm »
+1

I think that new Warlock card Dark Bargain, the 6 Mana spell that discards 2 random cards to destroy 2 random enemy minions, has potential in a Demon Zoo deck of sorts in place of Doomguard. That sounds like blasphemy I know. Doomguard is so good for 5 Mana when you don't discard anything, provides reach, and can be summoned by Voidcaller. Well Dark Bargain is also really good for 6 Mana. Double Deadly Shot. It's also for Warlock, a class which has poor hard removal but is good at claiming board initiative so it can reasonably reduce the board down to the 2 strongest minions.

I think Dark Bargain is worth considering because there are lots of times where you play Doomguard as the last card in your hand, but attacking face with it doesn't win you the game and instead you have to trade it into a big threat like Dr. Boom, Ancient of War, Mal'ganis, or a taunted Giant. 5 damage isn't enough to kill those threats, and you may even lose your Doomguard. You have to trade other minions into the threats too and end up weakening your board. Dark Bargain however spares your other minions from dying to some big minion.

The other big thing to consider is how Doomguard and Dark Bargain fit into the Voidcaller/Mal'ganis interaction. It often happens that a demon deck will be stuck with both Doomguard and Mal'ganis with a Voidcaller in play. You hope that Mal'ganis gets summoned by the Voidcaller's deathrattle and then you can play Doomguard (which becomes a 7/9) and Life Tap without losing health. You only have a 50% chance of Summoning Mal'ganis in that scenario though. The other outcome is that Doomguard is summoned, and you inefficiently play Mal'ganis for 9 Mana (if you have that much Mana at all). If the Doomguard was instead Dark Bargain in that scenario, you're guaranteed to summon Mal'ganis and then play Dark Bargain to remove the minions that easily threaten Mal'ganis.
 
It's a meta call. If Face Hunter and Patron Warrior remain rampant, you'll prefer Doomguard in the hopes of killing their hero as fast as possible. If however the meta is full of Ramp Druids and Control decks, Dark Bargain will be better. As a bonus it can destroy Doomsayer when Doomguard alone cannot.

Void Crusher also fills the hard removal role Warlock lacks, and defends against mass Freeze/Doomsayer with it's inspire that works even when frozen. It's inspire can even be used multiple times if not answered. It just looks a bit too unreliable at that mana cost. It can come out of Bane of Doom though, so watch out.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #342 on: August 18, 2015, 11:14:00 pm »
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My hesitation is that Void Crusher can remove itself.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #343 on: August 19, 2015, 03:21:20 am »
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Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card". 

That is actually true.
Powercreep is when the benchmark for comparing cards gets completely changed. Like, if 3/4 for 2 are now suddenly common and can even have upsides. That is not happening.
Well, creep is a thing that happens over time. It's dangerous to say "it's ok to make a strictly better version of a card that is unplayable". Pre-Naxx, I remember serious Hunter decks running River Crocolisk, Zoo Warlocks running cards like Shieldbearer and Elven Archer, Druid decks running Chillwind Yeti, and so on. None of those cards see competitive constructed play now. The same can be expected to happen to cards that get displaced by new TGT cards.

Edit: Actually I now see that what you're saying is that it's ok because Ice Rager itself is unplayable. That's a good point.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 03:22:26 am by blueblimp »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #344 on: August 19, 2015, 03:56:43 am »
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Well, some power creep has to happen as long as there isn't a rotating format, unless they make all of the new cards completely unplayable, and that would be weird.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #345 on: August 19, 2015, 08:07:49 am »
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Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card". 

That is actually true.
Powercreep is when the benchmark for comparing cards gets completely changed. Like, if 3/4 for 2 are now suddenly common and can even have upsides. That is not happening.
Well, creep is a thing that happens over time. It's dangerous to say "it's ok to make a strictly better version of a card that is unplayable". Pre-Naxx, I remember serious Hunter decks running River Crocolisk, Zoo Warlocks running cards like Shieldbearer and Elven Archer, Druid decks running Chillwind Yeti, and so on. None of those cards see competitive constructed play now. The same can be expected to happen to cards that get displaced by new TGT cards.

Edit: Actually I now see that what you're saying is that it's ok because Ice Rager itself is unplayable. That's a good point.

Even if Ice Rager was playable. The fact is that, when it comes to constructed, Magma Rager doesn't even exist. So, it should not effect any decisions, really.

But I do agree with you on your other point. Yes, there is definitely some power creep. Yeti was quite solid in druid, now it's not played. Any 4 drop that has 4hp has a big downside of dying to shredder, and if it has no other impact, it is inferior to shredder which leaves a 2 drop behind. So, people actually expect good 4 drops to be 4/5s now.

But I do not see it necesarily as bad thing. As Awaclus said, new cards need to be better than old cards if they are to see play - as why would you play them otherwise? (Unless there is a rotating format, and that is a whole new beast to tackle).
But I do not thing Blizz is overdoing it, they are cautious about it. I think they have pretty good concept of CCGs and also pretty good idea of where they are going with HS.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #346 on: August 19, 2015, 08:35:10 am »
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Yeti was quite solid in druid, now it's not played. Any 4 drop that has 4hp has a big downside of dying to shredder, and if it has no other impact, it is inferior to shredder which leaves a 2 drop behind. So, people actually expect good 4 drops to be 4/5s now.

I'm not sure what your point is. Yeti is a 4/5.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #347 on: August 19, 2015, 08:40:30 am »
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Yeti was quite solid in druid, now it's not played. Any 4 drop that has 4hp has a big downside of dying to shredder, and if it has no other impact, it is inferior to shredder which leaves a 2 drop behind. So, people actually expect good 4 drops to be 4/5s now.

I'm not sure what your point is. Yeti is a 4/5.
I guess he means 4/5 with a bonus like Mechanical Yeti's and its Mech tag and deathrattle. 4/5 with a sort-of bonus is pretty powercreepy though. Instead we have the less durable 5/4 for 4 mana with strong effects like Goblin Blastmage and Savage Combatant.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #348 on: August 19, 2015, 03:36:28 pm »
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Evil Heckler has 2 different summon quotes :P It's funny.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #349 on: August 19, 2015, 04:55:44 pm »
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Evil Heckler has 2 different summon quotes :P It's funny.
I noticed that too. It's cool. I'm guessing it's also a reference to Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #350 on: August 19, 2015, 07:01:02 pm »
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Yeti was quite solid in druid, now it's not played. Any 4 drop that has 4hp has a big downside of dying to shredder, and if it has no other impact, it is inferior to shredder which leaves a 2 drop behind. So, people actually expect good 4 drops to be 4/5s now.

I'm not sure what your point is. Yeti is a 4/5.


Like, look when streamers are reviewing new cards. 3/5s get discarded very soon for "poor stats".
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #351 on: August 19, 2015, 07:01:44 pm »
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Skeleton Knight quotes A Game of Thrones on both entry and attack.

"When you play in Grand Tournament you win or you die" and
"Pay the iron price"
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #352 on: August 19, 2015, 07:04:01 pm »
0

Oh, and guys, this deck is insane currently:
http://teamarchon.com/decks/view/58-anticipation

my changes are -1 pyro, -1 Blessing, +1 chow, +argus.
It is pretty decent against agro and against other decks dropping tirion causes a concede like 80% of the time.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #353 on: August 20, 2015, 10:15:23 am »
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Reading the comments on these things always gets me.  "I want to play this deck but don't have either Quartermaster, what should I replace it with?" True best answer: Rexxar. 

Paladin is pretty well positioned right now so I'm not suprised it's doing well.  It probably improves Amaz's winrate a lot that people are mulliganing for Divine Favor Paladin.  Well, maybe it does.  I guess if you queue up against Amaz and you happen to know he doesn't ever play decks that dull, maybe you don't mulligan for Divine Favor Paladin.  Hm..
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #354 on: August 20, 2015, 09:53:25 pm »
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What do you guys think about Justiciar in Control Warrior list?

Warrior relies on Armor up so much and getting 4 armor a turn seems huge.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #355 on: August 21, 2015, 05:15:53 am »
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Control Warrior seems to be the best home for Justicar.  You have to survive several more turns to get value from it, but there's every chance you can.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #356 on: August 21, 2015, 07:49:12 am »
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Justicar seems terrible in control Warrior.  If you're about to literally die turn 7 or 8 to face hunter, it's bad because you won't get to activate it twice so it can be a Priestess of Elune.  If you're going to die turn 10 or 11 to a mechmage that's building board position, it's bad because its' a 6/3, so at least one more minion will survive than if you had played a normal sized creature, and that minion will be hitting you for 3 every turn while you heal for 2 extra every turn.

If you play it against a deck that is going to go for a looong, grindy game, it would be good if you had a 50 card deck, but you don't.  It's really easy to deck out as control warrior, and taking out your 6/7 for a 6/3 just means you'll end the game with no deck, no board, 50 armor, and an opponent with a 4/4, in all likelihood.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #357 on: August 21, 2015, 08:08:21 am »
0

Vs fast deck obviously shieldmaiden is better.
Few turns later justicar gets more armor, and out-sustaining your opponent is really important is slow control matchups where you are likely to hit fatigue. (vs some midrange too).

Edit:
someone on reddit actually made a pretty neat comparison:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3htz39/justicar_in_control_warrior/
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #358 on: August 21, 2015, 09:09:43 am »
0

Fatigue matches are almost always decided by whoever has a minion leftover after both players trade minions and removal against eachother.

Using this card to win fatigue games is like sacrificing a rook so you can in a six piece game.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #359 on: August 21, 2015, 09:24:54 am »
0

Turn 1: Innervate/Coin -> Jeeves
Turn 2: Innervate -> Astral Communion
Turn 3+: Whatever the fuck I want
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #360 on: August 21, 2015, 11:30:33 am »
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Justiciar seems worth it if you absolutely know you're going into a control vs control matchup where you're going to get a lot of chances to tap. I could see it being slipped in as a surprise card in tournaments or if you're playing against a friend who you think is going to play a control deck.

However, that makes it pretty terrible on ladder where you face aggro decks at least half the time.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #361 on: August 21, 2015, 01:05:41 pm »
0

When you say "chances to tap", do you mean any hero power, or Life Tap?

I think the card is only going to lose you a control warrior mirror.  Priest might have enough value packed into their deck to splurge on it, but not Warrior. 
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #362 on: August 21, 2015, 03:06:20 pm »
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When you say "chances to tap", do you mean any hero power, or Life Tap?

I think the card is only going to lose you a control warrior mirror.  Priest might have enough value packed into their deck to splurge on it, but not Warrior.

I just call any use of hero power "tapping". I'm not sure if other people do that, but amongst my irl friends who play Hearthstone we just call it tapping.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #363 on: August 24, 2015, 09:34:32 pm »
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So, do I craft Justicar?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #364 on: August 24, 2015, 09:49:51 pm »
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Savage Combatant is my early surprise card.

It's an 8 damage swing when he can attack and inspire.  I dropped it T1 with Coin+Innervate and really had my opponent on the ropes with 8 damage on T2.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #365 on: August 24, 2015, 10:20:48 pm »
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Yeah, sometimes problem with coin/innervating a big minion turn 1 is that you cannot do anything but hero power next 2 turns. This guy helps with that.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #366 on: August 25, 2015, 06:48:40 am »
+2

So the priest legendary that summons a random legendary when you inspire, I've played against it once, they summoned majordomo, they instantly resigned

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #367 on: August 25, 2015, 07:08:31 am »
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So, I modified standard midrange shammy, currently 8-5 at rank 4

Rockbiter Weapon x 2
Earth Shock x 2
Zombie Chow

Flametongue Totem x 2
Ancestral Knowledge x 2
Totem Golem x 2

Tuskarr Totemic x 2
Healing Wave
Hex x 2
Feral Spirit x 2
Lightning Storm x 2

Piloted Shredder x 2
Defender of Argus

Azure Drake
Loatheb
Doomhammer

Fire Elemental x 2

Dr. Boom

Al'Akir the Windlord

I am thinking of replacing one ancestral knowledge with 2nd drake
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #368 on: August 25, 2015, 08:36:26 am »
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Azure Drake definitely seems like a superior draw option. 

I think the 6 mana 5/5 that draws a pally card or Neptulon might be better choices too.  Their bodies are small for their costs, but are they 4 mana smaller?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #369 on: August 25, 2015, 09:11:59 am »
+1

So, do I craft Justicar?

Nah, just open him like I did.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #370 on: August 25, 2015, 12:44:50 pm »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #371 on: August 25, 2015, 01:35:57 pm »
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So, do I craft Justicar?

Nah, just open him like I did.

After getting Justicar+Soulpriest'd today, I crafted him.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #372 on: August 26, 2015, 12:55:15 am »
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My opponent popped a Dreadsteed out of Piloted Sky Golem in Arena just now. Might be the new worst Golem drop... although it was difficult to resist the urge to clear it with my Haunted Creeper.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #373 on: August 26, 2015, 06:32:36 am »
0

My opponent popped a Dreadsteed out of Piloted Sky Golem in Arena just now. Might be the new worst Golem drop... although it was difficult to resist the urge to clear it with my Haunted Creeper.

Well, actually free ping is rather annoying
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #374 on: August 26, 2015, 11:02:57 am »
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Haunted Creeper is 1/2! Dreadsteed is 1/1.  THIS IS WHAT HE WAS HATCHED FOR RIGHT?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #375 on: August 26, 2015, 11:08:42 am »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #376 on: August 26, 2015, 12:25:57 pm »
+3

Yeah Haunted Creeper is 0.5 while he costs 2 mana so you must pay 400% of cost.  Meanwhile Wisp is 1/1 which is 1.0 and he costs 0 mana so you must pay 0% of his cost and her value per cost is over 9000%. 

In turn though, Dread Steed kills any number of Wisps without dying for infinite value and he is a 1.0 for 4 at 400%, so 400% * 9000% is at least 3600%

Dr. Boom is a very strong card at 1/1+7/7+1/1 but with two booms that do an average of 2.5 times their bodies damage so 1.0+1.0+1.0+2.5+2.5 = 8.0 value for only 7.0 mana which is why his value is 114.2857% of cost. That is the strongest card we will tolerate without nerfz so Dreadsteed needs to be nerfed 31.5 times to restore balance to the game.  Next patch Dreadsteed will have added "battlecry, opponent gains 30 armor.  Discard 1 Demonfuse from your hand.", which will be 31.5 nerfs (you see half the time, Demonfuse is an extra good card because your opponent misuses the extra mana and Mortal Coils their own Argent Squire.)

That will bring the Piloted War Golem meta game back into balance.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #377 on: August 26, 2015, 12:52:00 pm »
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Yeah Haunted Creeper is 0.5 while he costs 2 mana so you must pay 400% of cost.  Meanwhile Wisp is 1/1 which is 1.0 and he costs 0 mana so you must pay 0% of his cost and her value per cost is over 9000%. 

In turn though, Dread Steed kills any number of Wisps without dying for infinite value and he is a 1.0 for 4 at 400%, so 400% * 9000% is at least 3600%

Dr. Boom is a very strong card at 1/1+7/7+1/1 but with two booms that do an average of 2.5 times their bodies damage so 1.0+1.0+1.0+2.5+2.5 = 8.0 value for only 7.0 mana which is why his value is 114.2857% of cost. That is the strongest card we will tolerate without nerfz so Dreadsteed needs to be nerfed 31.5 times to restore balance to the game.  Next patch Dreadsteed will have added "battlecry, opponent gains 30 armor.  Discard 1 Demonfuse from your hand.", which will be 31.5 nerfs (you see half the time, Demonfuse is an extra good card because your opponent misuses the extra mana and Mortal Coils their own Argent Squire.)

That will bring the Piloted War Golem meta game back into balance.

/r/hearthstonecirclejerk
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #378 on: August 26, 2015, 10:34:20 pm »
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In arena, just got Thunder Bluff Valiant (5 mana 3/6, Inspire: All Totems get +2 attack) with Flametongue, Healing, Searing, Taunt on the board. That felt really good.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #379 on: August 28, 2015, 12:30:24 pm »
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1st TGT legend, Bolf Ramshield. That's after I opened Malorne yesterday. Not a bad 2 days.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #380 on: August 28, 2015, 12:53:44 pm »
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Opened my first repeat TGT Legendary yesterday: Acidmaw. Guess I should be happy for the Dust... but meh.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #381 on: August 28, 2015, 02:08:09 pm »
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I always feel worse when I open a duplicate legend that's actually good because I wish it was the first opening.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #382 on: August 28, 2015, 04:48:02 pm »
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I just got a Golden Rare!

...and it's King's Defender.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #383 on: August 28, 2015, 06:00:03 pm »
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That Taunt Dummy deck tho
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #384 on: August 28, 2015, 11:16:18 pm »
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That Taunt Dummy deck tho

Target Dummy OP. I see why they printed it now.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #385 on: August 31, 2015, 04:41:17 pm »
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Most likely brand new archetypes I think the Tournament might bring, in order (not improvements.  Which is a little subjective, but I'd say mechmage was a new archetype but throwing a couple mechs into force-roar druid was popular but not new)

1. Control Shaman
2. Ancestral Call Shaman (i'm probably way too optimistic but <3)
3. Aggro Shaman (any shaman counts as new because it's like a tier 4 deck on ladder atm)
4. Secrets/Spell Mage (something aggro or midrange that doesn't run Goblin Blastmage)(I think some people play that anyway and it's not that bad right now because annoyotron bites patrons dust and stuff so maybe it doesn't count)
5. Secret masscast Paladin
6. Control Druid

New archetypes I am rather skeptical about, in no particular order.
Any inspire-matters. (one or two inspire cards might show up on their own merits, but trying to get two inspire dudes out the hero power for double the inspire triggers or running coliseum manager and inspire together, I don't believe in it)
Any murloc.
Any beast druid.
Any dragon deck.
Any joust deck but Shaman (I'm grateful Warlock doesn't have access to a decent joust card after all)
Rogue managing to get away from Tinker oil spam.
Taunt Warrior.
Control Hunter
Spell damage minions matter deck. (can we revert Dalaran Mage's nerf so he's not worse than Ice Rager?)
Pirates
Discard matters.
Whether or not you are a totem matters.


So I guess I see certain conceptual archetype having a good chance to improve viability, but don't believe in most of the mechanics, having the least skepticism about Shaman's joust card, the secret masscast guy, and the new direction for mage suggested by spellshaper, Effigy, and new neutrals for mage that can be good without having to be mechs.

Well, you got one right.. :D (so far)

(Also "any dragon" - there are actually two now).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #386 on: August 31, 2015, 05:22:05 pm »
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I would say the decks I see the most of at my rank (7-10) are Patron, Dragon Priest, Totem Shaman, Face and Midrange Hunter, Secrets and Flood Paladin, Tempo Mage, and Ramp Druid. (I've been mostly playing an updated Zoo, which I haven't seen much, but still is able to get wins off on all those types of decks).

What are other people seeing?

Edit: The way I'd written the list bothered me.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 07:05:10 pm by Jorbles »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #387 on: August 31, 2015, 05:27:59 pm »
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Yeah I had secret masscast paladin on my list. 

I feel like Dragon Warrior is a fad, but Dragon Priest is going to be the only way to play Priest.  Wyrmrest Agent kinda slipped by me, the card is sick.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #388 on: August 31, 2015, 06:43:29 pm »
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I'm a sucker for forced themes, so I'm running a beast Druid (sucks) and inspire Mage (surprisingly good).
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #389 on: August 31, 2015, 06:49:30 pm »
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I'm running Control Warrior, Midrange (Combo) Druid and Midrange Paladin.

I see a lot of decks actually, a bit of everything.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #390 on: August 31, 2015, 07:06:09 pm »
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I'm a sucker for forced themes, so I'm running a beast Druid (sucks) and inspire Mage (surprisingly good).

What's in an Inspire Mage deck? Coldarra, Fallen Hero, Lake Lady and ??
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #391 on: August 31, 2015, 07:07:11 pm »
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I'm running a midrange Paladin too. I'm constantly tweaking it to deal with whatever decks I'm having the most trouble with. I run Kel'Thuzad in it, which is such a good follow up to Dr. Boom and so good against Chillmaw. Kel'Thuzad basically turns Chillmaw into a 7 mana Frost Nova.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #392 on: August 31, 2015, 07:16:20 pm »
+1

This is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen:

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #393 on: August 31, 2015, 09:13:12 pm »
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lol yea I can't believe Ragnaros doesn't know spiders aren't insects!
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #394 on: September 01, 2015, 02:35:12 am »
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I'm a sucker for forced themes, so I'm running a beast Druid (sucks) and inspire Mage (surprisingly good).

What's in an Inspire Mage deck? Coldarra, Fallen Hero, Lake Lady and ??

I have Fallen Hero x2, Lake Lady x2, 1 Coldarra, Justicar, Saraad, frost Giants and a number of useful inspire minions (lowly squire, argent watchman, the windfury guy, one kodo rider, two kvaldir Raiders) plus some freeze to slow my opponents down.  Thaurissan and Rhonin for good measure.

I can post my full list if you are interested.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #395 on: September 01, 2015, 04:24:58 am »
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This is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen:

That's as close as you can get to summoning Bahamut.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #396 on: September 01, 2015, 12:49:56 pm »
0

I'm a sucker for forced themes, so I'm running a beast Druid (sucks) and inspire Mage (surprisingly good).

What's in an Inspire Mage deck? Coldarra, Fallen Hero, Lake Lady and ??

I have Fallen Hero x2, Lake Lady x2, 1 Coldarra, Justicar, Saraad, frost Giants and a number of useful inspire minions (lowly squire, argent watchman, the windfury guy, one kodo rider, two kvaldir Raiders) plus some freeze to slow my opponents down.  Thaurissan and Rhonin for good measure.

I can post my full list if you are interested.

Well I'm certainly curious, I haven't really seen much success with the new Inspire Mechanics except for Totem Shaman and Murloc Knight in Constructed so I'm curious for the new ones that seem to work.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #397 on: September 01, 2015, 12:56:21 pm »
0

I'm a sucker for forced themes, so I'm running a beast Druid (sucks) and inspire Mage (surprisingly good).

What's in an Inspire Mage deck? Coldarra, Fallen Hero, Lake Lady and ??

I have Fallen Hero x2, Lake Lady x2, 1 Coldarra, Justicar, Saraad, frost Giants and a number of useful inspire minions (lowly squire, argent watchman, the windfury guy, one kodo rider, two kvaldir Raiders) plus some freeze to slow my opponents down.  Thaurissan and Rhonin for good measure.

I can post my full list if you are interested.

Well I'm certainly curious, I haven't really seen much success with the new Inspire Mechanics except for Totem Shaman and Murloc Knight in Constructed so I'm curious for the new ones that seem to work.

Lowly Squire x2
Argent Watchman
Boneguard Lieutenant
Fallen Hero x2
Sunfury Protector
Arcane Intellect x2
Frost Nova x2
Dragonhawk Rider x2
Fireball x2
Defender of Argus
Maiden of the Lake x2
Tournament Medic
Kvaldir Raider x2
Nexus Champion Saraad
Blizzard
Coldarra Drake
Emperor Thaurissan
Justicar Trueheart
Kodo Rider
Rhonin
Frost Giant x2
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #398 on: September 01, 2015, 01:04:11 pm »
+1

I'm not so sure about Dragonhawk Rider. Unless you're going face with it a lot, it's not all that much better than Raging Worgen. What's your experience with it?
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #399 on: September 01, 2015, 01:15:06 pm »
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I concur, this doesn't look like a face deck at all.  An offtheme 3 drop would probably work better.  Most of what the Dragonhawk rider is doing for this deck is 3/3 pseudotaunt that lets Lowly Squire, Boneguard, and Maiden and etc live longer, I think, but you can get that out of other minions or even Raging Worgen himself.  The 3/3 Recruiter would be good, as would Flamewaker (you don't have many ways to proc flamewaker, but people will just spend all their resources annihilating it anyway because they can't see your hand or decklist)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 01:16:18 pm by popsofctown »
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #400 on: September 01, 2015, 01:32:00 pm »
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Yeah, maybe Silver Hand Regents would be better here? If you expect to hero power a lot the free dude is nice and they have the same body as the Dragonhawk Rider.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #401 on: September 01, 2015, 01:51:47 pm »
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I have found that the Rider draws fire when I play him, for sure.  When I proc windfury, it's usually able to trade 2 for 1 or face + trade.

I guess he's not a sticky control type minion, but I try to sprinkle some taunt and pseudo taunt and he plays like that in the early game.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #402 on: September 01, 2015, 02:03:23 pm »
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I will say, there's something satisfying about having Fallen Hero x2 out, then dropping Justicar on turn 8, using hero power to ping Azure Drake and proccing all your inspire minions.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #403 on: September 01, 2015, 02:05:51 pm »
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I will say, there's something satisfying about having Fallen Hero x2 out, then dropping Justicar on turn 8, using hero power to ping Azure Drake and proccing all your inspire minions.

Now I want to shove a bunch of Faceless Manipulators/Duplicates/Echoes of Medivh into a Fallen Hero deck and get seven of them on the board.  DIE INSECT!
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #404 on: September 01, 2015, 02:45:24 pm »
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I will say, there's something satisfying about having Fallen Hero x2 out, then dropping Justicar on turn 8, using hero power to ping Azure Drake and proccing all your inspire minions.

Now I want to shove a bunch of Faceless Manipulators/Duplicates/Echoes of Medivh into a Fallen Hero deck and get seven of them on the board.  DIE INSECT!
You have to close your eyes when you target the hero power for the replica to be perfect, though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #405 on: September 01, 2015, 11:47:38 pm »
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These secret Paladins man. I beat an aggro variant as a Dragon Priest, but I needed most of my removal to do so. Auchenai + circle to kill double Secret Keeper on Turn 4. SW:D on the first Mysterious Challenger. Lightbomb to kill a full board from Knife Juggler + Muster (didn't have Pyromancer handy at the time) thereby preventing a massive competitive spirit proc. Finally a lucky Chillmaw at the end that only activated thanks to a topdecked Twilight Whelp (only card in my hand) let me beat the second MC. Because of MC and big Divine Favor draws, my opponent reached fatigue when I had like 12 cards left in my deck. I think I would have lost if I hadn't played Justicar in addition to all that other stuff.

Crazy stuff. Their early game is too good to really punish them for having secrets in their deck. It really looks like you have to exhaust their resources. Luckily Dragon Priest is pretty good at establishing early game dominance with some of the new cards.

Still, it's so nice to ladder with Dragon Priest because it can be designed to be massively favourable against most Hunter decks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #406 on: September 02, 2015, 12:17:38 pm »
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Tentatively I think Secrets Paladin is pretty well designed.  It can do good things, but you can also tech against it without needing to put a card in your deck that is super awful in other matchups.  Taunt does pretty well, for instance, no secret will proc because your opponent is ramming your taunt minions (Well, Repentance can get you, but you get my point.)
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #407 on: September 02, 2015, 02:28:13 pm »
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Tentatively I think Secrets Paladin is pretty well designed.  It can do good things, but you can also tech against it without needing to put a card in your deck that is super awful in other matchups.  Taunt does pretty well, for instance, no secret will proc because your opponent is ramming your taunt minions (Well, Repentance can get you, but you get my point.)
Taunts are helpful in that they buy time for you to come up with the best way to play around the secrets. They'll be able to break through a couple of the taunts efficiently with Owl and maybe Blessing of Might though. Competitive Spirit complicates things because you play around that by leaving a token or two to deny large value from it, but this goes against denying Paladins targets for their other buff abilities.

It's a strong deck that at least has clear weaknesses. What makes it so strong is that the strengths of the deck are quite dramatic when they surface. Definitely good enough to warrant adequate preparation for it.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #408 on: September 05, 2015, 03:58:44 pm »
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Just opened my first legendary of the set: Varian Wrynn!

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #409 on: September 06, 2015, 04:46:46 am »
0

Just opened my first legendary of the set: Varian Wrynn!

I'm not sure what to think about Varian Wrynn.  It's not clear that Control Warrior needs such a big swing on the board, and you can lose a lot of value by skipping Battlecries.  I haven't played with it though.

I opened a golden Darkbane and two Fizzlebangs...
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #410 on: September 06, 2015, 05:13:54 am »
+1

I'm not sure what to think about Varian Wrynn.  It's not clear that Control Warrior needs such a big swing on the board, and you can lose a lot of value by skipping Battlecries.  I haven't played with it though.

I have and it's great. Skipping Battlecries isn't a huge problem really, you're still getting the cards and cards are good.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #411 on: September 06, 2015, 06:14:16 am »
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I'm not sure what to think about Varian Wrynn.  It's not clear that Control Warrior needs such a big swing on the board, and you can lose a lot of value by skipping Battlecries.  I haven't played with it though.

I have and it's great. Skipping Battlecries isn't a huge problem really, you're still getting the cards and cards are good.

You're probably right.  You're not really losing anything unless the game goes to fatigue, and Warrior is probably winning that one anyway.
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Grujah

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #412 on: September 06, 2015, 08:40:42 am »
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I was worried about skipping battlecries as well, but he is insanely good one he hits the table.

Only big problem is landing in Lightbomb, but it's still 1 for 1 at worst.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #413 on: September 06, 2015, 10:30:11 am »
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I was worried about skipping battlecries as well, but he is insanely good one he hits the table.

Only big problem is landing in Lightbomb, but it's still 1 for 1 at worst.
On the plus side, Varian also 1 for 1's Mind Control sometimes if a Priest ever decides to run that. Plus Dr. Boom is good at baiting Lightbomb.

But yeah just summoning a 7/7 and a big body like Alex or something is good for 10 mana.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #414 on: September 06, 2015, 03:22:52 pm »
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The problem is I don't have the other legendaries to make control warrior.  So I'm running him in patron with varying results.  He's still fun, and it's fun to watch people resign when you drop him.

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #415 on: September 06, 2015, 03:43:20 pm »
+1

The problem is I don't have the other legendaries to make control warrior.  So I'm running him in patron with varying results.  He's still fun, and it's fun to watch people resign when you drop him.

Would you say the results are mostly Varian up or down?

He's an awkward fit in Patron for a few reasons.  The biggest is that he could easily wreck a combo, as you might vomit pieces onto the board that you really needed to hold for a big finish. (You're also unlikely to be able to play further combo pieces on the same turn.)  But set against that is the fact that you don't run all that many minions as Patron, so he's more like card draw—very expensive card draw.

I can see that he'd be very fun if everything lined up though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #416 on: September 07, 2015, 08:56:49 am »
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Honestly, I didn't really play patron before so I can't really compare what value he adds. It can be key to pull out a warding commander after the other was killed from the first combo though. And if you were able to play thaurissan first, you can have spells that are 0 (whirlwind) or have one mana left because Varian ontly cost 9

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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #417 on: September 18, 2015, 07:17:46 pm »
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It's disappointing that Fallen Hero doesn't make, say, Shaman's hero power deal 1 extra damage even though it says that it does.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #418 on: September 18, 2015, 07:22:36 pm »
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It's disappointing that Fallen Hero doesn't make, say, Shaman's hero power deal 1 extra damage even though it says that it does.

Nope. All it does is help Mages and fuck Warlocks.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #419 on: September 18, 2015, 07:25:37 pm »
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It's disappointing that Fallen Hero doesn't make, say, Shaman's hero power deal 1 extra damage even though it says that it does.

Nope. All it does is help Mages and fuck Warlocks.

It helps Hunter too.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #420 on: September 18, 2015, 07:35:13 pm »
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It's disappointing that Fallen Hero doesn't make, say, Shaman's hero power deal 1 extra damage even though it says that it does.

Nope. All it does is help Mages and fuck Warlocks.

It helps Hunter too.

That's right.  And Shadowform.  And Charged Hammer.  And DIE, INSECT!  That's it, though.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #421 on: September 19, 2015, 09:45:48 am »
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Spell dmg doesn't give all your spells an extra dmg. Just the ones that originally deal damage.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #422 on: September 20, 2015, 08:26:07 pm »
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It's disappointing that Fallen Hero doesn't make, say, Shaman's hero power deal 1 extra damage even though it says that it does.

Nope. All it does is help Mages and fuck Warlocks.

It helps Hunter too.

That's right.  And Shadowform.  And Charged Hammer.  And DIE, INSECT!  That's it, though.

Wrong.  Fallen Hero helps Guldaan bring out Molten Giants faster.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #423 on: September 20, 2015, 11:32:36 pm »
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Astral Communion seems to be bugged right now.  If you play it when you have 10 crystals already, you get the Excess Mana card, but it does not refresh your mana Crystals.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #424 on: September 21, 2015, 03:04:35 am »
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Astral Communion seems to be bugged right now.  If you play it when you have 10 crystals already, you get the Excess Mana card, but it does not refresh your mana Crystals.

That's unfortunate.  I drew one in Tavern Brawl the other day, and it was working then.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #425 on: September 30, 2015, 01:40:19 pm »
+4



EXACTLY my $2 cents, like, word for word.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #426 on: September 30, 2015, 02:18:49 pm »
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I'd never seen this Youtube channel before, thanks!
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #427 on: October 04, 2015, 05:58:46 pm »
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Just opened Skeleton Knight...underwhelmed.

7/4 for 6 is so-so, easily removed.  The joust puts him back in your hand, so maybe you trade him then recast him?  I could try him in my ramp deck, where most of my minions cost a lot, I suppose.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #428 on: October 04, 2015, 06:44:11 pm »
+1

Skeleton knight is unbelievably awful.

It's a 6 mana Azure Drake with the draw moved to the deathrattle, and a chance to whiff the draw, and the guarantee that the draw will be your 6 mana Azure Drake, which, given the other disadvantages, is worse than a normal draw.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #429 on: October 04, 2015, 06:45:55 pm »
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Would he be played if the deathrattle was guaranteed? He still would do nothing vs. aggro.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #430 on: October 04, 2015, 06:47:37 pm »
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which, given the other disadvantages, is worse than a normal draw.

, which makes the 6 mana Azure Drake even worse than it already was, which makes the draw even worse than it was, which makes the 6 mana Azure Drake even worse than it already was...

Therefore, Skeleton Knight is infinitely worse than Azure Drake.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #431 on: October 04, 2015, 09:41:14 pm »
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It's actually a recursion, kind of like the way .54545454 repeating  is less than .555555555555 repeating.

But I'm not too worried about the overstatement.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #432 on: October 05, 2015, 05:26:04 am »
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Skeleton Knight was decent in that one brawl where he was in your premade deck, since the decks were bad enough that repeatedly playing a 6 mana 7/4 could actually out-value your opponent over time.
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Re: The Grand Tournament Discussion
« Reply #433 on: October 05, 2015, 11:58:05 am »
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Skeleton Knight was decent in that one brawl where he was in your premade deck, since the decks were bad enough that repeatedly playing a 6 mana 7/4 could actually out-value your opponent over time.
So it depends on the board?
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