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Author Topic: Tavern Brawl Discussion  (Read 213505 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #375 on: November 26, 2015, 08:15:04 pm »
0

It's true for all cost modifiers, it was a known bug with Preparation before the Tavern brawl came out.  The card is just such garbage that even getting a minion a massive 3 mana bigger than it should be isn't enough for it to see a shred of constructed play.

It's not that awful. A 7-mana minion and a 0/6 Taunt is pretty good value for a 5-cost card. It's just that the metagame isn't right for that type of deck to work well at the moment.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #376 on: November 26, 2015, 09:16:47 pm »
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Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.
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markusin

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #377 on: November 26, 2015, 09:22:18 pm »
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Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.
Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.
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Awaclus

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #378 on: November 26, 2015, 09:54:35 pm »
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My games in this Brawl typically went on forever. The game I won went to fatigue.

All games I won went to fatigue.

I played Mill Druid to complete the 60 gold Druid/Rogue quest because I don't have good cards for either class.
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markusin

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #379 on: November 26, 2015, 11:26:02 pm »
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My games in this Brawl typically went on forever. The game I won went to fatigue.

All games I won went to fatigue.

I played Mill Druid to complete the 60 gold Druid/Rogue quest because I don't have good cards for either class.

I had the same quest. Threw something together with Rogue and Reno. Really, any deck with Reno has a huge edge against the inevitable aggro players.
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popsofctown

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #380 on: November 27, 2015, 01:44:20 am »
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Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.
Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.

Are you waiting until turn 9 to make this play, or do you have some strange expectation that a turn 5 0/6 will reliably stick?  It might stick in Arena, but not Constructed.
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Awaclus

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #381 on: November 27, 2015, 03:19:53 am »
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Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.
Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.

Are you waiting until turn 9 to make this play, or do you have some strange expectation that a turn 5 0/6 will reliably stick?  It might stick in Arena, but not Constructed.

You are waiting until turn 9.
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Jorbles

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #382 on: November 27, 2015, 02:27:50 pm »
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Where are you getting 7 mana minion? you can prep and get a wisp and an earhten ring farseer, then it dies.
Weren't we working under the assumption that cost reduction doesn't affect what Summoning Stone summons? So a Prepped Sprint would still summon a 7-mana Minion.

Are you waiting until turn 9 to make this play, or do you have some strange expectation that a turn 5 0/6 will reliably stick?  It might stick in Arena, but not Constructed.

It might stick in Arena sometimes, but it's so hard to reliably draft good spells that I don't even know if that would make me draft it. I actually think that cards really neat though, I want to make it work in a deck, but have yet to pull that together.
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Grujah

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #383 on: December 02, 2015, 05:08:56 pm »
+1

New brawl is some kind of a deckbuilder, you start with some chickens, some coins, and some spare parts. Each turn you discover a card, play stuff in your hand, than everything gets shuffled back and you draw new 4.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 05:14:59 pm by Grujah »
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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #384 on: December 02, 2015, 05:27:40 pm »
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I got the impression it was designed by someone who played Dominion and didn''t get the point of the game.
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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #385 on: December 02, 2015, 06:24:15 pm »
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I got the impression it was designed by someone who played Dominion and didn''t get the point of the game.

Picking from a changing supply sounds more like Ascension, or War of Omens.
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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #386 on: December 02, 2015, 06:30:28 pm »
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I like it!  I pulled out two Hoggers and a Sunwalker - my opponent managed to get rid of them, then I pulled out an Innervate and just played all of them again.
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blueblimp

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #387 on: December 02, 2015, 10:00:32 pm »
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Interesting idea but it feels like a worse version of the discover brawl.
  • The putting-things-back-in-the-deck mechanic can be frustrating because if one player finds a card that's strong in the format (such as MC Tech, Loatheb, etc.), then they don't just get to play it once but a ton of times. It's like the struggle that happens occasionally in arena when your opponent drops some ridiculous legendary, you manage to kill it at great cost, and then they just drop another one--except here this annoyance is built into the format.
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.
  • Unlike the discover brawl, you're less willing to take something that only works this turn, because if it's generally not a good card, it's going to hurt your draws later. That eliminates part of what made the discover brawl fun.
  • The discover brawl was a lot simpler, so it didn't need annoying instruction pop-ups at the start of every game.
Saddest thing is I tried playing Warlock a couple times to use discard mechanics to thin my deck, but I never discovered any discard cards in time for it to matter. :( It takes so long to play out a game too...

Edit: I keep trying this and anything interesting fails to happen. It's just, either me or the other guy discovers a broken card, then it takes 5+ more turns to slowly snowball into a win unless someone concedes.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:30:11 pm by blueblimp »
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pingpongsam

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #388 on: December 03, 2015, 10:30:07 am »
+2

Hate this brawl. Like the creative idea but the actual effect si terrible. I played one game that went something like 60-70 turns before I finally resigned out of boredom. Plus, all the things blueblimp said.
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Jorbles

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #389 on: December 03, 2015, 11:50:30 am »
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I actually love this brawl. There's some swingy cards that can make it unfair, but overall it's one of the most interesting brawls I've ever played.

I completely disagree with some of these points too.

Interesting idea but it feels like a worse version of the discover brawl.
  • The putting-things-back-in-the-deck mechanic can be frustrating because if one player finds a card that's strong in the format (such as MC Tech, Loatheb, etc.), then they don't just get to play it once but a ton of times. It's like the struggle that happens occasionally in arena when your opponent drops some ridiculous legendary, you manage to kill it at great cost, and then they just drop another one--except here this annoyance is built into the format.

This is probably the most frustrating thing about this Brawl. That said if someone gets a great card you can draft specific counters to that card sometimes and counter it throughout the game. If the card counters it once it will continue to counter it. (For instance I draft a Mogushan to counter Chickens, my opponent drafts a Kodo to counter Mogushan, I draft Weblord to counter Kodo, he drafts Owl to counter both Mogushan and Weblord, so on and so forth).

Quote
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

Quote
  • Unlike the discover brawl, you're less willing to take something that only works this turn, because if it's generally not a good card, it's going to hurt your draws later. That eliminates part of what made the discover brawl fun.

Totally disagree with this. I mean you probably don't want something that generates spare parts, but I've been taking things that only work 1 turn because you'd rather do something effective now than later. The games are too fast to take expensive cards that you can't play until later.

Quote
  • The discover brawl was a lot simpler, so it didn't need annoying instruction pop-ups at the start of every game.
Saddest thing is I tried playing Warlock a couple times to use discard mechanics to thin my deck, but I never discovered any discard cards in time for it to matter. :( It takes so long to play out a game too...

Edit: I keep trying this and anything interesting fails to happen. It's just, either me or the other guy discovers a broken card, then it takes 5+ more turns to slowly snowball into a win unless someone concedes.

Discarding doesn't actually thin your deck to my knowledge. It just thins your hand. (that said you don't care if you discard an important card because you can always redraw it making discard cards reasonable). Edit: Not actually sure about this. Haven't played Warlock.

Hate this brawl. Like the creative idea but the actual effect si terrible. I played one game that went something like 60-70 turns before I finally resigned out of boredom. Plus, all the things blueblimp said.

The majority of the games I've played are over before turn 10, but I did play one game like you described, but I found it to be incredibly fun. I managed to come back from an opponent who had double Kel Thuzad and retake the board only to stall out again, but then eventually win when I dropped Jaraxxus from Sneed's Old Shredder, bounced it with a Youthful Brewmaster and Coined into playing Jeraxxus immediately for the win. In the late game people are less likely to draw their annoying cards so you actually see them less.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:52:31 am by Jorbles »
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pingpongsam

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #390 on: December 03, 2015, 12:00:59 pm »
0


Quote
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

I completely disgaree with this, lol. I lost repeatedly by trying to play for the early game and board control and answering the threats I knew were recurring. the winning strategy proved to be getting the heaviest hitting drafts that would recur in the late game. Fel Reaver is an autowin condition since it will empty your deck and you just play it over and over.
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Jorbles

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #391 on: December 03, 2015, 12:26:45 pm »
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Quote
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.

I completely disgaree with this, lol. I lost repeatedly by trying to play for the early game and board control and answering the threats I knew were recurring. the winning strategy proved to be getting the heaviest hitting drafts that would recur in the late game. Fel Reaver is an autowin condition since it will empty your deck and you just play it over and over.

Fel Reaver is completely OP in this mode. I have found that most games are over by turn 5-9 though. If it goes to 10 it's usually pretty evenly matched.
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Jorbles

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #392 on: December 03, 2015, 12:33:49 pm »
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On the other hand, Flame Leviathan, not OP. Doesn't work at all in this mode as you don't draw cards they just appear in your hand.
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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #393 on: December 03, 2015, 12:54:23 pm »
0

I like this one better than the pirate brawl - the 2/3s really don't do much, and you can't do anything turn 1. The combination of chickens, spare parts, and coins work much better as a "starting deck".
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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #394 on: December 03, 2015, 02:37:12 pm »
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Quote
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.
Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)
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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #395 on: December 03, 2015, 02:42:37 pm »
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I'm going to have to re-download HS just to try out HS-crossproduct-Ascension.
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Jorbles

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #396 on: December 03, 2015, 03:13:10 pm »
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Quote
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.
Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)

I don't think it's impossible, I've certainly beaten decks that have drafted Fjola, it certainly involves a bit of luck, but there's enough broken cards in this mode that you can come back at any point in the game as long as you still have some board presence if you get lucky and get one of them yourself. I think turn 1 or 2 Imp Gang Boss is actually the hardest card to come back from, you get to constantly flood your board with disposable minions while you plop down large cards that would usually cost you too much tempo to play. (or an early Astral Communion, but that's just insanely strong)
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markusin

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #397 on: December 03, 2015, 03:44:51 pm »
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Quote
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.
Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)

I don't think it's impossible, I've certainly beaten decks that have drafted Fjola, it certainly involves a bit of luck, but there's enough broken cards in this mode that you can come back at any point in the game as long as you still have some board presence if you get lucky and get one of them yourself. I think turn 1 or 2 Imp Gang Boss is actually the hardest card to come back from, you get to constantly flood your board with disposable minions while you plop down large cards that would usually cost you too much tempo to play. (or an early Astral Communion, but that's just insanely strong)

I think in this Brawl you can only discover neutral or class cards, so it's really unlikely for someone to draft both Imp Gang Boss and Astral Communion.
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Jorbles

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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #398 on: December 03, 2015, 04:11:59 pm »
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Quote
  • A lot of the skill that normally exists in Hearthstone is eliminated because of card advantage not existing.

Yes, but it replaces it with the need to have the skill to recognize what's good in this game mode. It turns out that cards like any 1 drop, Wisp, Gargoyle and many other cards that I'd normally consider quite terrible are really strong in this mode. I never thought I would look at a first turn draft with Senjin, Wisp and Ironbark Protector and say to myself this is definitely the time to pick Wisp because it turns out your mana is super valuable in this mode because there's always something to do with it and the early turns matter way more than the late ones.
Recognizing good cards for a brawl is interesting yeah and part of why I play every brawl even if it's a bit unfun once you figure it out. The beef I have with this brawl is it's almost all that's going on. e.g. I had a game where I draft Hobgoblin, and my opponent immediately concedes because of course he's going to lose. On the flip side, I've had multiple games where my opponent drafts Fjola Lightbane, and it's basically impossible to win against that.

Maybe the thing I like most about this brawl is being given a bunch of spare parts to do things with. It would be nice to have a brawl where you discover a spare part every turn. (Maybe too similar to the banana brawl.)

I don't think it's impossible, I've certainly beaten decks that have drafted Fjola, it certainly involves a bit of luck, but there's enough broken cards in this mode that you can come back at any point in the game as long as you still have some board presence if you get lucky and get one of them yourself. I think turn 1 or 2 Imp Gang Boss Master is actually the hardest card to come back from, you get to constantly flood your board with disposable minions while you plop down large cards that would usually cost you too much tempo to play. (or an early Astral Communion, but that's just insanely strong)

I think in this Brawl you can only discover neutral or class cards, so it's really unlikely for someone to draft both Imp Gang Boss and Astral Communion.

Whoops, I meant Imp Master.
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Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« Reply #399 on: December 03, 2015, 04:16:17 pm »
0

I got the priest 7 drop that summons legendary minions on inspire. I  got a foe reaper 4000 on it and my enemy conceded.
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