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[Donald X.]

But I will point out that the data suggest that the two entities that (we can assume) demanded exclusive rights (Goko, then MF) haven't actually made online Dominion - they've put up unreliable pieces of the game that sometimes work and sometimes don't.  The only entity that hasn't (we can assume) demanded exclusive rights (Doug Z) is the only one that has truly made online Dominion. (I'm leaving out BSW because I know nothing of that situation).

This is crazy talk, crazy person. Anyone making online Dominion for a living was going to want exclusive rights; there just haven't been many entities given a shot at it. Anyone making online Dominion for the joy of it (Board Game Arena for example) was not possibly going to expect rights.

The notion of "exclusive rights" is one that exists entirely and only in the business world.

are you married to this idea

[jaketheyak]

Sorry, Donald. You can't feed your kids, because Isotropic. :p

Man, this is exactly the kind of thing he's talking about.
Donald is here in this community giving up his time to discuss the game we love that he created.
He doesn't deserve to get sassed out.

[GendoIkari]

It's frustrating then to think that random people complaining on the internet holds greater weight when deciding what to do in the future.

Well if it's any consolation, as it happens I know this position of Jay's specifically because someone wanted to do online Temporum (a 2nd person besides Gendo; last I heard was http://www.reddit.com/r/temporum/comments/2x2jze/anyone_want_to_make_a_bot/). Jay didn't want to allow it. I argued that we needed the promotion; that there was no downside unless the game was a huge hit and that that wouldn't so much be a downside situation would it; that the Kingdom Builder app was making roughly no money so probably it wouldn't be worth pursuing an official version anyway. Hey those are all business arguments. He said something like "let me sleep on it and find a way to say yes." Of course there was a big 4th argument, which was me, me presenting the other 3 arguments.

What was Jay's eventual decision there? Would it be an issue if JD and I make a full featured multiplayer version like Isotropic? Because we've been working on that, though very slowly lately.

[LastFootnote]

Sorry, Donald. You can't feed your kids, because Isotropic. :p

Man, this is exactly the kind of thing he's talking about.
Donald is here in this community giving up his time to discuss the game we love that he created.
He doesn't deserve to get sassed out.

I was making a joke based off of what has transpired. I was just reiterating the argument made by Starcraft in terms that would make it absurd, because it is.

When you do this in the future, you might consider quoting the post you're parodying.

[Seprix]

I'm just going to remove all the comments I made. I can't help, all I end up doing is stirring up trouble.

[markusin]

Sorry, Donald. You can't feed your kids, because Isotropic. :p

Man, this is exactly the kind of thing he's talking about.
Donald is here in this community giving up his time to discuss the game we love that he created.
He doesn't deserve to get sassed out.

I was making a joke based off of what has transpired. I was just reiterating the argument made by Starcraft in terms that would make it absurd, because it is.

When you do this in the future, you might consider quoting the post you're parodying.

I still don't see what I said that is confusing you at all. It's pretty obvious to me, especially with the emoticon. I guess Poe's Law really is in effect.

In all seriousness, I'm sick of seeing people whine about how much better Isotropic was, and giving the developers at MF and now even Donald grief about it. I've seen people on the MF forum say the worst things to the developers down there, and I feel bad for them, just reading some of the stuff said. I don't like the beta so far either, but I'm going to try and be the better person, and help if I can.

It's a shame they were rushed to make the Beta open because of the loss of their old payment service. If they were given a month to iron out the worse bugs, the first impressiona they received wouldn't have been this bad. Probably. The Beta tester testimony wasn't too reassuring.

[Donald X.]

What was Jay's eventual decision there? Would it be an issue if JD and I make a full featured multiplayer version like Isotropic? Because we've been working on that, though very slowly lately.

I thought the link made it clear that he okay'd it. Go for it guys.

[pst]

From my perspective, the best value, recognizing that money isn't the only thing worth having, would have been for there never to have been any online versions. The money has been a joke but it would need to be amazing to matter.

From what you are writing it sounds like you (and Jay) don't understand what money online versions have yielded. I have bought all physical cards except Adventures for myself, as well as three sets as gifts. That simply wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Isotropic, so in my case it is twelve sets instead of zero sets. I see no reason to believe that I'm unusual about that. OK, so money isn't the only thing worth having and you didn't want my money, but still it might be good to understand why you have it.

[Donald X.]

From what you are writing it sounds like you (and Jay) don't understand what money online versions have yielded. I have bought all physical cards except Adventures for myself, as well as three sets as gifts. That simply wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Isotropic, so in my case it is twelve sets instead of zero sets. I see no reason to believe that I'm unusual about that. OK, so money isn't the only thing worth having and you didn't want my money, but still it might be good to understand why you have it.

For the general case, as opposed to you specifically, you aren't informing me at all here; you're just finding areas not yet covered in depth by this delightful conversation.

[blueblimp]

OK, even bringing up "money" and "online versions" together was maybe a bad way to go. For me at least, even though I first played Dominion offline/IRL, finding online Dominion was part of having the complete Dominion experience. My IRL games were (and are) typically 3-player or 4-player and fairly casual. For online games, I prefer 2-player and fairly competitive. Both are fun in their own way. Online, engines are lots of fun to play, whereas IRL the shuffling can get a bit tedious. But there are also cards that are more fun to play IRL, particularly the non-attack interactions like Masquerade and Council Room.

So, I think it's nice for the game to be available in multiple formats. I'm not trying to claim that "good for players of Dominion" is the same as "good for Donald X", but, I guess I'm just trying to say that there is some value there that has nothing to do with business. It's a shame that the internet tends to attract negative people and negativity from otherwise positive people, but it's also a great way to connect with others who are also interested in playing and studying the game in a way maybe they can't IRL for whatever reason.

[jsh357]

I am actually in the same boat as pst.  I was invited to play Dominion on isotropic, really enjoyed it, and played hundreds of games before purchasing all of the sets.  However, I had three or four friends who started playing with me at the same time, and none of them bought sets, so I'm not sure you could say isotropic was a definite seller.

[dudeabides]

The key, of course, for those parties interested in making money with Online Dominion lies not in what they charge the consumers to play the game, but instead in corporate sponsorship. So many other online gaming companies rely on advertising to make money.  Dominion has a superior way to receive money from companies.  It involves slight modifications of the card names and images in order to work, but I've taken the first steps with two cards. Introducing (drum roll) the Citi Bank and the Whole Foods Market Market.

 

There are plenty of other synergies between corporate entities and Dominion cards.  For example, the Check Into Cash Moneylender, the Busch Gardens, and the Courtyard by Marriott.  Prince might be willing to sponsor a card:



Corporate sponsorship is always the answer to the question of "How do I make money at this?"  Just look at every major sport. 

[Seprix]

Yes, but who lets corporations name the teams? If they did, it would be like "The Cleveland Post-it Notes" and "The Chicago Jiff". Corporations tie their stuff to things people love, things people love do not tie themselves to corporations.

[michaeljb]

Yes, but who lets corporations name the teams? If they did, it would be like "The Cleveland Post-it Notes" and "The Chicago Jiff". Corporations tie their stuff to things people love, things people love do not tie themselves to corporations.

There are a few Red Bull teams out there, including New York Red Bulls in MLS.

edit: The Anaheim Ducks (NHL) were originally named after Disney's movie The Mighty Ducks.

[Seprix]

Yes, but who lets corporations name the teams? If they did, it would be like "The Cleveland Post-it Notes" and "The Chicago Jiff". Corporations tie their stuff to things people love, things people love do not tie themselves to corporations.

There are a few Red Bull teams out there, including New York Red Bulls in MLS.

edit: The Anaheim Ducks (NHL) were originally named after Disney's movie The Mighty Ducks.

Racecars are people with corporate sponsors. MLS Red Bulls is an exception, but it sounds cool anyways, so I guess it works. :p I dunno, I wouldn't name my team after a company.

[michaeljb]

The racers part was just the first subsection of the section I linked. There are also 2 hockey teams and 5 football/soccer teams total owned by Red Bull. Only one of them doesn't have "Red Bull" in the team's full name, "RasenBallsport Leipzig e.V.", but they are commonly known as "RB Leipzig."

Anyway, the real key to a team being named after a corporation is for the team to be owned by that corporation, or someone with close ties to them; then it probably won't matter what the fans want. (another example: the Green Bay Packers were originally named after the Indian Packing Company, in exchange for them providing equipment funding)

[Kirian]

There are plenty of other synergies between corporate entities and Dominion cards.  For example, the Check Into Cash Moneylender, the Busch Gardens, and the Courtyard by Marriott.

Amusingly, the Courtyard by Marriott joke was done back when Walled Village was only available to Google Plus subscribers.

[werothegreat]

There are plenty of other synergies between corporate entities and Dominion cards.  For example, the Check Into Cash Moneylender, the Busch Gardens, and the Courtyard by Marriott.

Amusingly, the Courtyard by Marriott joke was done back when Walled Village was only available to Google Plus subscribers.

There's literally a theme park in Virginia called King's Dominion.

[Kirian]

There are plenty of other synergies between corporate entities and Dominion cards.  For example, the Check Into Cash Moneylender, the Busch Gardens, and the Courtyard by Marriott.

Amusingly, the Courtyard by Marriott joke was done back when Walled Village was only available to Google Plus subscribers.

There's literally a theme park in Virginia called King's Dominion.

Yep.  Although wasn't it bought by Busch Gardens?

(The last time I was there was... thirtyish years ago.)

[Seprix]

There's literally a theme park in Virginia called King's Dominion.

King's Courtyard Marriott Dominion

[GendoIkari]

There are plenty of other synergies between corporate entities and Dominion cards.  For example, the Check Into Cash Moneylender, the Busch Gardens, and the Courtyard by Marriott.

Amusingly, the Courtyard by Marriott joke was done back when Walled Village was only available to Google Plus subscribers.

There's literally a theme park in Virginia called King's Dominion.

Yep.  Although wasn't it bought by Busch Gardens?

(The last time I was there was... thirtyish years ago.)

Nope... It was owned by Paramount for a long time, recently bought by CBS / Cedar Fair.

I used to go to King's Dominion often.

[werothegreat]

Dude.  The joke was basically handed to you on a platter.

"The card formerly known as 'Prince'"

[Kirian]

There are plenty of other synergies between corporate entities and Dominion cards.  For example, the Check Into Cash Moneylender, the Busch Gardens, and the Courtyard by Marriott.

Amusingly, the Courtyard by Marriott joke was done back when Walled Village was only available to Google Plus subscribers.

There's literally a theme park in Virginia called King's Dominion.

Yep.  Although wasn't it bought by Busch Gardens?

(The last time I was there was... thirtyish years ago.)

Nope... It was owned by Paramount for a long time, recently bought by CBS / Cedar Fair.

I used to go to King's Dominion often.

Cedar Point is my local park, but having kids put a real damper on riding roller coasters.

[dudeabides]

...It has not made anywhere near enough to pay for one guy's salary for the time period they've been working on it.

That is not a good sign.  At some point, someone will take a look at the burn rate for cash, and decide to quit throwing good money after bad.  I wonder by what internal metric they are measuring what they might view as progress.

Goko's metric was the average number people in the King's Court lobby.  Making Fun has destroyed Goko in that regard.

[dudeabides]

Dude.  The joke was basically handed to you on a platter.

"The card formerly known as 'Prince'"

Freaking funny.  I did a version with the "Prince" text in the title of the card replaced with the symbol,

 but technically Prince is now "Prince" again, aka "the artist formerly known as that funky symbol."